L-cancelling gone?

[~tgm_Zeej]

exactly, i should get up in peoples faces and make fun of them for making a good point and/or speaking their minds. thats how ill prove im bada**

Bad ***** don't exist in the internet, my friend. Posers do.

 

[Sliq]

I'm here to speculate about Brawl the same as you. And I think some of the speculations that other people are making are ridiculous. It's reasonable to express skepticism about the changes they've made, but what gets under my skin is when people refuse to acknowledge the possible benefits and/or make claims with absolute certainty that they can't possibly support. In your case you were saying that the loss of L-cancelling is nothing but bad news for competitive players, and I argued that it would improve character balance, which is a huge benefit to anyone that doesn't want to main Fox, Marth or Sheik. Just ask Gimpy. Smash is all about the characters and I think balance should be priority #1. I understand you guys are annoyed that Brawl is deviating from your personal preference towards lightning reflexes and highly technical gameplay, but there are other factors at play here.

Ok, how would no l-canceling benefit character balance. Hit me with it. I've already illustrated the aspects I hate, and all you've done is told me I'm wrong.

 

[Teeb147]

I will beat everyone in this thread up because I dislike your ideas and or the way you present them.



No, the fact that you called him the "Gimp God," and the fact tat you seem to think his presence represents the finality of all good ideas in the thread leads me to believe you want to touch his eruption button in an Applebees' restroom like the classy guy you are, clinging to someone "popular" so you can be popular too.

Note: Gimpyfish probably hates you.

I was joking ,and I couldnt care less if gimp hates me. He's had the most experience here (I think) with brawl and said something that I liked.

 

[Teeb147]

I'm here to speculate about Brawl the same as you. And I think some of the speculations that other people are making are ridiculous. It's reasonable to express skepticism about the changes they've made, but what gets under my skin is when people refuse to acknowledge the possible benefits and/or make claims with absolute certainty that they can't possibly support. In your case you were saying that the loss of L-cancelling is nothing but bad news for competitive players, and I argued that it would improve character balance, which is a huge benefit to anyone that doesn't want to main Fox, Marth or Sheik. Just ask Gimpy. Smash is all about the characters and I think balance should be priority #1. I understand you guys are annoyed that Brawl is deviating from your personal preference towards lightning reflexes and highly technical gameplay, but there are other factors at play here.

I think we see it the same way Zek, it's just that competitive players dont care exactly like we do about that stuff, so we're bound to run into some disagreements.

it's not about competives here, it's about their ridiculous speculation, it's annoying, and I think you find it annoying too.

 

[Sliq]

I was joking ,and I couldnt care less if gimp hates me. He's had the most experience here (I think) with brawl and said something that I liked.

The good old *** covering of I was joking. A classic.

I can't disagree with him having the most experience, but he provided no evidence to support his sugary diabetic murdering claims.

Then you started fellating Gimpyfish for his fluffy, fast-food claim like he just ended the topic with his great knowledge, despite the lack of any real insight (other than Gimpy likes movies with happy endings).

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i really dont like being referred to as a god of any kind, in the future please don't use language like that.

sup sliq lol

i haven't given you a warning in a while so...


nah just playin, carry on.

 

[Teeb147]

i really dont like being referred to as a god of any kind, in the future please don't use language like that.

I see, I wasnt trying to put you on a pedastal or anything

edited: Gimp Meister. Better?

 

[Blatherskite]

You can refer to me as a god. I'm cool with that.

 

[xylem]

Like I said before, I dont mind speculation, but it's dumb **** like this that ticks me off.

well that's just fine that it pisses you off. All the crap that the other hardcore gamers give smashers is now officially true and I'm kinda pissed about that; we were close to winning almost all of them over and getting the respect we deserve then this **** happens. Brawl is ONLY a kids game and I'm not a friggen kid! I play games that are tough like contra, godhand, and ikaruga. I don't want "mario party: punch-out edition" I want smash brothers! I mean to find a game that's competitive AND holds a certain charm like melee is quite rare. I don't think you understand how intense it is to apply everything you've trained for and topple someone everyone thought you had no chance of beating. guys like you tend to not get it and have no pride or craftsmanship in anything you do, a couple of you might change but for the most part mediocrity defines your life in a nutshell.

 

[Sliq]

i really dont like being referred to as a god of any kind, in the future please don't use language like that.

sup sliq lol

i haven't given you a warning in a while so...


nah just playin, carry on.

You'll always be my BFF.

I think we see it the same way Zek, it's just that competitive players dont care exactly like we do about that stuff, so we're bound to run into some disagreements.

it's not about competives here, it's about their ridiculous speculation, it's annoying, and I think you find it annoying too.

The only thing we can do right now is: 1.) Speculate about Brawl with what we currently know about Melee and Brawl 2.) Sit around with our thumbs in our ***** and wait for it to be released. I'm doing 1, and you seem to want me to do 2.

I know Brawl is a new ****ing game. But it's not like now it is a cooking simulator. The basic gameplay aspect is still there, so our knowledge of Melee is still somewhat applicable to Brawl.

I choose to be more pessimistic about my views with the current direction, which is my prerogative. What I don't get is why you care that I think Brawl will suck. I care because I don't want it to suck, and you shouldn't want it to suck too. Judging from WHAT WE KNOW NOW (which is the only data we can use, because I am not ****ing psychic), I feel that Brawl is going in the wrong direction, and I have backed up all my claims with various points.

If you want to think that the Smash developers ride to work on unicorns, drink sunshine, and defecate happiness, that is your prerogative, but don't come in here telling my hypothesis is wrong just because I'm a downer.

Fresh copypasta for you.

well that's just fine that it pisses you off. All the crap that the other hardcore gamers give smashers is now officially true and I'm kinda pissed about that; we were close to winning almost all of them over and getting the respect we deserve then this **** happens. Brawl is ONLY a kids game and I'm not a friggen kid! I play games that are tough like contra, godhand, and ikaruga. I don't want "mario party: punch-out edition" I want smash brothers! I mean to find a game that's competitive AND holds a certain charm like melee is quite rare. I don't think you understand how intense it is to apply everything you've trained for and topple someone everyone thought you had no chance of beating. guys like you tend to not get it and have no pride or craftsmanship in anything you do, a couple of you might change but for the most part mediocrity defines your life in a nutshell.

You and me should have sex, because I love you.

 

[Teeb147]

Speculation not equal to ridiculous speculation.
Ridiculous speculation exmple: "Brawl is going to suck on the competitive side"

 

[Sliq]

Speculation not equal to ridiculous speculation.
Ridiculous speculation exmple: "Brawl is going to suck on the competitive side"

Do you want me to copy and paste all of the points I have made to prove that point while you have yelled at me for being pessimistic, because I can.

i.e. post some evidence why it won't suck you *******.

inb4developersknowwhattheyaredoing

 

[Teeb147]

Do you want me to copy and paste all of the points I have made to prove that point while you have yelled at me for being pessimistic, because I can.

i.e. post some evidence why it won't suck you *******.

inb4developersknowwhattheyaredoing

Be pessimistic if you want. but if you're going to bring it on the boards, be prepared for replies about you being annoying.

Im not going to say that it's not going to suck! But Im not going to say that it is either! Why would you say either one? We dont know yet.

 

[Sliq]

Be pessimistic if you want. but if you're going to bring it on the boards, be prepared for replies about you being annoying.

Ok, good point. Brawl is going to kick ***.

I find bubble headed optimist vomiting poetry and dreaming of candy trees and magic flying cars to be really annoying. I just don't ***** about it in a forum about a video game. That would make me look like a huge tool.

Im not going to say that it's not going to suck! But Im not going to say that it is either! Why would you say either one? We dont know yet.

Way to have the balls to make a stand like a man.

"What do you think about abortion?"

"I think both sides have valid arguments."

*mumbles under breath* ...pussy...

Seriously, if you are going to be a spineless *******, stay out of the way of the big boys discussing it.

 

[Teeb147]

Ok, good point. Brawl is going to kick ***.

I find bubble headed optimist vomiting poetry and dreaming of candy trees and magic flying cars to be really annoying. I just don't ***** about it in a forum about a video game. That would make me look like a huge tool.

Who the hell said to be optimistic? it's just about being respectful to others. If you're not, they're not going to be towards you.

So if you dont care, then that's fine, but there's going to be consequences. thats all im saying.

 

[Israfel]

And if you're going to continue to post in a discussion, then please back it up with some actual facts other than 'gimpyfish said it would be awesome, thus proving you wrong.' Honestly, you've done nothing to refute anything sliq has posted, and simply kept posting about how you're annoyed because someone else has an opinion you disagree with. grow the **** up or get the **** out.

 

[Silhouette]

Be pessimistic if you want. but if you're going to bring it on the boards, be prepared for replies about you being annoying.

Im not going to say that it's not going to suck! But Im not going to say that it is either! Why would you say either one? We dont know yet.

im begining to think ur just enjoying the increasing post count u get by circling about whats been said.

 

[Sliq]

Who the hell said to be optimistic? it's just about being respectful to others. If you're not, they're not going to be towards you.

So if you dont care, then that's fine, but there's going to be consequences. thats all im saying.

Ok, but you see, when I'm mean, it applies to WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE THREAD.

I'll ridicule your idea and tell you what is right. As opposed to just ridiculing your idea, but being stupid and not realizing I don't have any idea what I am talking about. Thats you.

Im not going to say that it's not going to suck! But Im not going to say that it is either! Why would you say either one? We dont know yet.

Way to have the balls to make a stand like a man.

"What do you think about abortion?"

"I think both sides have valid arguments."

*mumbles under breath* ...pussy...

Seriously, if you are going to be a spineless *******, stay out of the way of the big boys discussing it.

In case you missed it.

 

[Teeb147]

And if you're going to continue to post in a discussion, then please back it up with some actual facts other than 'gimpyfish said it would be awesome, thus proving you wrong.' Honestly, you've done nothing to refute anything sliq has posted, and simply kept posting about how you're annoyed because someone else has an opinion you disagree with. grow the **** up or get the **** out.

You havent read all of my posts, ive backed it up plenty, now it's just getting out of hand because he wont back down. I dont back down from arguments. Thats the problem here, because obviously he doesnt either.

Ive brought in the whole annoyed thing to try to make him understand etiquette. but obviously he either doesnt understand, or is too stubborn.
Ive made mostly logical posts up till now, I havent insulted anyone, so who needs to grow up?

im begining to think ur just enjoying the increasing post count u get by circling about whats been said.

I only have an average of 10 posts per day. I couldnt care less. I just like to debate

 

[Pun]

That's really going to suck.

 

[Zek]

Ok, how would no l-canceling benefit character balance. Hit me with it. I've already illustrated the aspects I hate, and all you've done is told me I'm wrong.

I explained it in great detail multiple times, but I guess I'll give you a recap... Advanced techniques, such as L-canceling, are a barrier to the developers being able to properly balance their game. The more complicated a character's potential moveset, the more difficult it is to predict exactly how they're going to be played and how they're going to interact with other characters. There's also the very real possibility that a lot of the playtesters won't have the twitch skills to fully utilize them while balance testing. Balancing the game for competitive players is not realistically possible unless these issues can be addressed, which is where removing ATs comes in. By controlling ATs, controlling the pace of the game, and so on, the devs have a cleaner concept of how the game is going to be played, and can balance around that much more effectively.

 

[Sliq]

You havent read all of my posts, ive backed it up plenty, now it's just getting out of hand because he wont back down. I dont back down from arguments. Thats the problem here, because obviously he doesnt either.

Ive brought in the whole annoyed thing to try to make him understand etiquette. but obviously he either doesnt understand, or is too stubborn.
Ive made mostly logical posts up till now, I havent insulted anyone, so who needs to grow up?

WTF!? Are you really arguing with me because I'm being mean over the internet!? If so, please destroy your computer right now.

What you don't seem to understand is that the internet is NOT serious business, and a forum about a video game is not serious business.

I recognize that what I am doing is unacceptable in a NORMAL SETTING. This is the internet, where girls eat their own **** and and dogs **** chicks.

IF you aren't going to really argue about Brawl, and are just going to scold me about my behavior, as if your set of behavioral rules are the correct ones (what an arrogant assumption), then you're better off leaving the internet for good, because I don't know how long you'll last.

http://thesadraccoon.ytmnd.com/

I explained it in great detail multiple times, but I guess I'll give you a recap... Advanced techniques, such as L-canceling, are a barrier to the developers being able to properly balance their game. The more complicated a character's potential moveset, the more difficult it is to predict exactly how they're going to be played and how they're going to interact with other characters. There's also the very real possibility that a lot of the playtesters won't have the twitch skills to fully utilize them while balance testing. Balancing the game for competitive players is not realistically possible unless these issues can be addressed, which is where removing ATs comes in. By controlling ATs, controlling the pace of the game, and so on, the devs have a cleaner concept of how the game is going to be played, and can balance around that much more effectively.

Except their perception of balance will be immediately broken by some new AT or technique, so working around existing AT's seems pointless, since the end result will be the same. I'm sure the developers the Melee was balanced, and we know how untrue that is.

You could also reach more balance by removing characters, because less movesets means less variety, and therefor less variables to take into account. The only problem is that by trying to balance it, they are removing variety, and making it more monotonous. Raise your hand if you enjoy monotony. What, no one?

As I said before, you could balance the game perfectly by FD, Fox only. But it also makes the game more boring.

Melee is not imbalanced because of WD'ing or l-canceling. It is imbalanced because the characteristics of certain characters make them worse. The character is inherently flawed due to their move set, hitboxes, lag, speed, weight, etc. ALL of the character can WD and l-cancel. Only Fox can waveshine. This is because of HIS characteristics. His shine is comes out in 4 frames and can be JC in 1 (I think). Fox's down b isn't an AT.

What the designers need to do is to balance the speed to power ration of moves, the weight of the characters, etc. AT's factor in so little that focusing on them is pointless.

 

[The_Corax_King]

I think people are looking at this the wrong way...

Melee had a tournament scene before the discovery of any advanced techs...

All advanced techs did was make the game more complex... and made people better... but it did NOT make smash competitive... the only reason advanced techs were ever used is because smash was competitive in the first place...


The tournament scene gave birth to advanced techs... NOT the other way around...

Even if the game is "less technical" people are still going to become godly... there will STILL be tournaments...

And people are most likely going to find new techniques to boost their game...

And on a final note... if you are only looking to buy brawl for the competitive part you shouldn't even call yourself a smash fan... there is so much to the game even without the competitive scene... (and no... Im not saying there wont be a competitive scene...)

 

[xylem]

Be pessimistic if you want. but if you're going to bring it on the boards, be prepared for replies about you being annoying.

go back to bed Garfeild (seriously stop posting you were supposed to be in bed like 2 hours ago). Brawl will probably get a 10/10 review everywhere you look but here, so I don't see why you're saying we're wrong for saying it's not competitive since we're the only ones who look at it from that angle. Also from your logic of "lol demo" sakurai might put everything back like he did with deconfirming and then reconfirming the ice climbers and all the ***** physics and stuff were just for the lulz (which although sakurai is nuts, that would be some kojima grade crazy right there). if you're only here to get the last word in then you will fail good sir.

You and me should have sex, because I love you.

Oh my, as flattering as that is I'm spoken for.

 

[Teeb147]

WTF!? Are you really arguing with me because I'm being mean over the internet!? If so, please destroy your computer right now.

What you don't seem to understand is that the internet is NOT serious business, and a forum about a video game is not serious business.

I recognize that what I am doing is unacceptable in a NORMAL SETTING. This is the internet, where girls eat their own **** and and dogs **** chicks.

IF you aren't going to really argue about Brawl, and are just going to scold me about my behavior, as if your set of behavioral rules are the correct ones (what an arrogant assumption), then you're better off leaving the internet for good, because I don't know how long you'll last.

http://thesadraccoon.ytmnd.com/

Just because it's the internet doesnt mean you have to be mean, you can chose to though, and I have no problem with that, BUT I'll definitly debate you when you say that brawl wont be good because of lack of L-Cancel; because that statement is false... or rather, we cant know if it's true or false yet. It's illogical to say, so I will argue it.
You seemed to not like the fact that I was arguing with you, so I thought to let you know what my replies were natural consequences to your behaviour, since you didnt seem to comprehend that. You still dont fully understand tho, you think Im upset over you being mean, that's not the issue.

Anyway. I think Ive made my point.
L-Cancel being out is great in my opinion.

Gnite

 

[Silhouette]

I explained it in great detail multiple times, but I guess I'll give you a recap... Advanced techniques, such as L-canceling, are a barrier to the developers being able to properly balance their game. The more complicated a character's potential moveset, the more difficult it is to predict exactly how they're going to be played and how they're going to interact with other characters. There's also the very real possibility that a lot of the playtesters won't have the twitch skills to fully utilize them while balance testing. Balancing the game for competitive players is not realistically possible unless these issues can be addressed, which is where removing ATs comes in. By controlling ATs, controlling the pace of the game, and so on, the devs have a cleaner concept of how the game is going to be played, and can balance around that much more effectively.

true that the more complicated they make the characters, the higher the possibility of there being a defined tier list. but one of the greatest things about melee is its endless possibilities, how not every character is so unique but every player who plays that character. its the uncontrolled possibilities that let us smashers develop smash into what it is today.

 

[DinnerSonic]

This feels like it's causing a larger separation between the "casual" player who doesn't/has yet to figure out advanced techniques and plays for things like nostalgia and such and those who use such techniques, rather then "evening the playing field" or whatever reason it may of been done for... It's kinda sad, and seeing all this new apparent hatred for the game/it's creators just makes it harder for me to enjoy it myself even if I had never attempted such things before. To think one change would make such a difference, but it seems it pretty much does in this kind of play.

I apologize if I don't know what I'm talking about, but that is why I'm not really entering any kind of argument and simply commenting on how what seemed like a quick attempt to "fix" something seems to have ruined it for a lot of people and caused a larger split then before, assuming I'm right in figuring there was one.

 

[Sliq]

Just because it's the internet doesnt mean you have to be mean, you can chose to though, and I have no problem with that, BUT I'll definitly debate you when you say that brawl wont be good because of lack of L-Cancel; because that statement is false... or rather, we cant know if it's true or false yet. It's illogical to say, so I will argue it.
You seemed to not like the fact that I was arguing with you, so I thought to let you know what my replies were natural consequences to your behaviour, since you didnt seem to comprehend that. You still dont fully understand tho, you think Im upset over you being mean, that's not the issue.

Anyway. I think Ive made my point.
L-Cancel being out is great in my opinion.

Gnite

Ok, but you see, you didn't provide ANY evidence to back up your claim about why l-canceling not in Brawl is not a bad thing FOR COMPETITIVE PLAYERS.

You=/=Competitive

How the **** could you even begin to explain how this will impact OUR scene, you know, the one you AREN'T APART OF!?

http://tia.nealpro.com/history.aspx?id=117

Here is a lits of all of the tournaments I have gone to that have utilized Tio (i.e. a fraction). I have much more knowledge about the competitive scene than you do. I would know what would and would not be good or bad for way more than you, an outsider, would, and to insinuate that you know more than us is insulting.

The only point you ave made is that your comprehension of competitive smash is unsurprisingly weak.

I think people are looking at this the wrong way...

Melee had a tournament scene before the discovery of any advanced techs...

All advanced techs did was make the game more complex... and made people better... but it did NOT make smash competitive... the only reason advanced techs were ever used is because smash was competitive in the first place...


The tournament scene gave birth to advanced techs... NOT the other way around...

Even if the game is "less technical" people are still going to become godly... there will STILL be tournaments...

And people are most likely going to find new techniques to boost their game...

And on a final note... if you are only looking to buy brawl for the competitive part you shouldn't even call yourself a smash fan... there is so much to the game even without the competitive scene... (and no... Im not saying there wont be a competitive scene...)

Finally, someone makes a valid argument.

Once you go black you never go back.

Now that we have tasted the awesomness that is Melee, with our current knowledge AT's and the metagame, to go to Brawl, that could completely destroy everything that we have created, will not be easy.

I am hoping that Brawl will have some aspect to master, and that one component won't ruin the others. I hope that I am wrong and Brawl is way better than Melee. But the fact of the matter is Brawl has some huge shoes to fill, and if it doesn't live up to Melee, I know a lot of people who would be dissapointed.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

the lack of l cancel is a negative thing for competitive smash, but it doesn't mean the game wont be competitive

arguing why no l cancel is a good thing is ridiculous lol

 

[Teeb147]

Ok, but you see, you didn't provide ANY evidence to back up your claim

Wrong, I did. Remember our talk about generally reducing lag?

You=/=Competitive

Wrong again. Ive played competively and decided to go back to casual play.
I plan on playing mostly competively for brawl though.

I would know what would and would not be good or bad for way more than you, an outsider, would, and to insinuate that you know more than us is insulting.

Can you find the so called post where I insinuated this? post number? No? Didnt think so.


It's called making up stuff, something else that's annoying.


****, I really have to not go on the forums at night, it's 5 AM now :S

 

[Sliq]

Wrong, I did. Remember our talk about generally reducing lag?


Wrong again. Ive played competively and decided to go back to casual play.
I plan on playing mostly competively for brawl though.



Can you find the so called post where I insinuated this? post number? No? Didnt think so.


It's called making up stuff, something else that's annoying.


****, I really have to not go on the forums at night, it's 5 AM not here.

I remember, but you see, THAT ISN'T THE CASE RIGHT NOW! JESUS CHRIST! If they did that, superb. But what they DID do is remove lag canceling ALL TOGETHER, WHICH IS BAD. You claim this is good. But it isn't, because they didn't replace it with anything else. Generally less lag isn't enough, because you will still get shield grabbed out the ***.

You insinuated this by poorly arguing the l-canceling being out is good, and I said it wasn't good, and if you were a competitive player, and had half a brain, you would realize that this is a BAD THING.

The inablity for aerials to have less lag in order to escape being constantly being shield grabbed makes aerials bad and shield grabbing good. No one will use aerials. Everyone will shield grab.

The means in which lag is canceled is irrelevant, as long as their is some way of doing it, even it is AUTOMATIC. NO SUCH THING CURRENTLY EXISTS.

the lack of l cancel is a negative thing for competitive smash, but it doesn't mean the game wont be competitive

arguing why no l cancel is a good thing is ridiculous lol

And boom, another REAL competitive player backs me up (fyi, you are a pretend competitive).

 

[Sliq]

I double post because I'm silly.

 

[Teeb147]

I remember, but you see, THAT ISN'T THE CASE RIGHT NOW! JESUS CHRIST! If they did that, superb. But what they DID do is remove lag canceling ALL TOGETHER, WHICH IS BAD. You claim this is good. But it isn't, because they didn't replace it with anything else. Generally less lag isn't enough, because you will still get shield grabbed out the ***.

You insinuated this by poorly arguing the l-canceling being out is good, and I said it wasn't good, and if you were a competitive player, and had half a brain, you would realize that this is a BAD THING.

The inablity for aerials to have less lag in order to escape being constantly being shield grabbed makes aerials bad and shield grabbing good. No one will use aerials. Everyone will shield grab.

The means in which lag is canceled is irrelevant, as long as their is some way of doing it, even it is AUTOMATIC. NO SUCH THING CURRENTLY EXISTS.

1)True, but there's the whole added thing about we dont know the rest of the depth yet etc.
2)Insinuation and opinion are two different things. I remember clearly saying "In my opinion". Apart from that I was only debating your illogicalness
3)Again, I think there's more depth that will fix this, but it may possible. You're stating things like if they're facts, when they're not yet.
4)"currently" , And again, cant be sure if the game mechanics fixes this in another way.

Thats all for now. Im shutting my computer right after this..
I must have a certain amount of OCD.

 

[Kel]

I liked Megaman X3 a lot. It was a good game. It wasn't a competitive game though. Coincidentally, this is the biggest competitive forum for super smash bros.

In earlier days, Link was thought to be amazing due to his up B. Later, we discovered Link wasn't that great of a character (in melee) for the way the metagame was evolving. directly after that, sheik was discovered as being amazing. Besides her chain-grabbing abilities, Sheik has very little landing lag (very notably with her forward air) so she can **** your shield and not get shield-grabbed while the rest of the roster had to deal with shield grabbing.

I will agree that we need to wait until brawl comes out, and then a lot longer to figure out brawls potential (potential lol). However, with the expertise and knowledge that us experienced competitive players know about the smash series, l-cancelling has done nothing but help the game and make lower tiered characters more playable. People just don't play lower tiers in tournaments because you're generally trying to win in tournaments. Most people want to use good characters because they want to do well.

In the end you probably have disregarded everything we've said because in your mind you're always correct. You claim Sliq is on a high horse yet you're the one that refuses to see other view points (teeb). What's more is that Sliq didn't just flame you, he made legitimate, coherent posts that explain his reasoning in a respectable manner. His perspective is from a competitive view and yours is just of game to waste time (in its essence).

 

[Sliq]

1)True, but there's the whole added thing about we dont know the rest of the depth yet etc.
2)Insinuation and opinion are two different things. I remember clearly saying "In my opinion". Apart from that I was only debating your illogicalness
3)Again, I think there's more depth that will fix this, but it may possible. You're stating things like if they're facts, when they're not yet.
4)"currently" , And again, cant be sure if the game mechanics fixes this in another way.

Thats all for now. Im shutting my computer right after this..
I must have a certain amount of OCD.

I swear to God I hate you. Currently, if Brawl remains AS IS, I think it will be BAD. I am SPECULATING, like I said BEFORE.

1,) No, we don't, but basing something off of what we DO KNOW RIGHT NOW might be a useful tool for understanding the game BEFORE IT IS RELEASED.

2)You are implying that you hold your opinion over mine, which is a fancy way of saying you think you know better than me about the matter at hand, and I am disagreeing, because you aren't providing reasons for your thinking.

3.) And you are saying things like, "It is ok, they will put in something that will make everything allllllll better." But you have no proof that they will add anything, or that they have any plans of adding anything, or changing anything. You just make a baseless assumption that they got this **** in the bag.

4.) I don't understand what you are saying.

 

[xylem]

This feels like it's causing a larger separation between the "casual" player who doesn't/has yet to figure out advanced techniques and plays for things like nostalgia and such and those who use such techniques, rather then "evening the playing field" or whatever reason it may of been done for... It's kinda sad, and seeing all this new apparent hatred for the game/it's creators just makes it harder for me to enjoy it myself even if I had never attempted such things before. To think one change would make such a difference, but it seems it pretty much does in this kind of play.

I apologize if I don't know what I'm talking about, but that is why I'm not really entering any kind of argument and simply commenting on how what seemed like a quick attempt to "fix" something seems to have ruined it for a lot of people and caused a larger split then before, assuming I'm right in figuring there was one.

oh relax, it's not that bad. most will either learn to tolerate the game or will just not bother to play it and will stop talking about it. I'm leaning heavily towards not playing it, I mean the only reason my copy of melee got the dust cleaned off of it in college 2 years back was because of the impressive metagame and the allure of MLG (playing video games as a job!?! that's almost as crazy as CANDY FOR BREAKFAST). MLG has been acting gay towards smash for about a year now (zomg master chief needs moar tv's!!1!) and metagame has no place in brawl , both huge disappointments. really this L-cancel thing is a death knell for competitive smash's future and I've just been driven to post because of it; sorta like giving a eulogy (albeit before leaving the morgue as it hasn't been released yet).

for one thing I predict that the "pros" (place consistently) of brawl will be reviled rather than admired. instead of "wow what fast thinking and nasty combos/tech chasing!" it'll be more like "wow, how homosexual and boring, he actually won by time out/camped for 6 minutes"

don't worry about it just beat the hell outta your friends. after all bomber man didn't have "pro" moves, but he's still fun to play for like an hour or two.

 

[Sliq]

oh relax, it's not that bad. most will either learn to tolerate the game or will just not bother to play it and will stop talking about it. I'm leaning heavily towards not playing it, I mean the only reason my copy of melee got the dust cleaned off of it in college 2 years back was because of the impressive metagame and the allure of MLG (playing video games as a job!?! that's almost as crazy as CANDY FOR BREAKFAST). MLG has been acting gay towards smash for about a year now (zomg master chief needs moar tv's!!1!) and metagame has no place in brawl , both huge disappointments. really this L-cancel thing is a death knell for competitive smash's future and I've just been driven to post because of it; sorta like giving a eulogy (albeit before leaving the morgue as it hasn't been released yet).

for one thing I predict that the "pros" (place consistently) of brawl will be reviled rather than admired. instead of "wow what fast thinking and nasty combos/tech chasing!" it'll be more like "wow, how homosexual and boring, he actually won by time out/camped for 6 minutes"

don't worry about it just beat the hell outta your friends. after all bomber man didn't have "pro" moves, but he's still fun to play for like an hour or two.

I lul'd.

Candy for breakfast indeed.

 

[xylem]

1)True, but there's the whole added thing about we dont know the rest of the depth yet etc.
2)Insinuation and opinion are two different things. I remember clearly saying "In my opinion". Apart from that I was only debating your illogicalness
3)Again, I think there's more depth that will fix this, but it may possible. You're stating things like if they're facts, when they're not yet.
4)"currently" , And again, cant be sure if the game mechanics fixes this in another way.

Thats all for now. Im shutting my computer right after this..
I must have a certain amount of OCD.

omfg you're still here? did you forget your hat?

and just because you got served at competitive melee hard, don't think you're getting off easy just because competitive brawl seems to lack in the technical department. Oh no brotha, you better pitch a tent and grab a snickers cause if you seriously want to win you're going to be camping hard and aren't going anywhere for awhile...

 

[The_Woebegone_Jackal]

I knew about l-canceling when I played Smash 64 (although the only move I canceled was Link's dair).

I am intrigued about the notion that it is there in another means which hasn't been discovered yet.

its simple, L-Cancel wasn't executed the same way in the Brawl demo at e4all as it had been in ssb64 or ssbm. So its logical to think that it may still be in, just executed differently now. Things change, even the way a technique works/is executed from game to game.

 

[JohnAnon]

Guys, guys. All your arguing is supported by one assumption: Shield Grab will make the game broken.

Well, what if Shield Grab wasn't as cheap as back then, huh? Ever thought about that?