Kong Kollege: Diddy Kong Tactical Discussion

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Diddys definitely top 5 or 3-4

 

[didds]

@ DiSQO_BuNNY curious, who would you put above Diddy?

 

[didds]

@ DiSQO_BuNNY curious, who would you put above Diddy?

 

[DeFish]

I'm not Disqo, but I'd say Fox, Lucas, and possibly Wolf, Lucario, and Mario. This is in terms of pure character potential, though. I think that a lot of Diddy's power revolves around getting into your opponent's head, and that's hard to translate into a tier list.

 

[Soft Serve]

My tier list opinions change like every day, but I really think Lucas is obcene with the number of options he has and the lack of safe options against him. The lucas players finally started exploring footstool stuff with him (I feel like part of it is my fault because I kept bugging burnsey to do it because footstools are broken) and now its not safe to shield at all. Magnet> footstool is true shield pressure and he can combo everything off of it except a grab or a fsmash. He also has infinites (albeit it is hitting with only the first frame of repeated DJC dairs, so hard). I also think Fox is still really good, and according to Neon fox and possibly wolf are Lucas's only bad matchups.

Other than lucas being at the top, everyone else to seems to be really really good and its a huge toss up on the top 8 imo. Diddy is definitely up there

 

[Seagull Joe]

is not top 5 lmao. He's probably top 10, but I think people just overrate him cause they suck vs bananas. He loses to , , and for sure at least 40-60. Still figuring things out as far as bad matchups go.

I'm not Disqo, but I'd say Fox, Lucas, and possibly Wolf, Lucario, and Mario. This is in terms of pure character potential, though. I think that a lot of Diddy's power revolves around getting into your opponent's head, and that's hard to translate into a tier list.

is garbage. Maybe I'm just spoiled because I think beats him badly.

Characters that are better then are: , , , , , , , and possibly /. I'm not saying these characters all beat , but I think they would be higher then him on a tier list.

 

[DeFish]

Characters that are better then are: , , , , , , , and possibly /.

I agree that this is probably the top 10 in PM (currently, at least), with the only question being the order they're in. I think that Diddy generally has the tools to deal with the people above to at least make matchups somewhat even, and that even when people learn to adapt to bananas Diddy will be okay. I think that Diddy has a solid advantage against M2, Falco, and MK, while going even with Pit, Wolf, Link, and Mario.

As a side note, I think that Falco is going to drop in the tier list as people get better at the new characters.

 

[SpiderMad]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WUdEMZyrBI

Diddy like you said Defish might be hard to tier list but he's also hard for me to gauge MUs, haven't felt any too bad of ones so far. I got UFGT coming up, and here's what my current counter pick/MU strategy gameplan is. It feels like everyday the character I'm good with changes (Especially with hard press vs light press air dodge, I have to use my shotty control stick and buttons controller for hard press since it's got nice buttery hard press clickers while my other one is an awesome controller my friend gave me but the shoulder clicks suck but it's wonderful for light press, besides enjoying light press more overall anyways for any controller http://smashboards.com/posts/16624768/), but I've been having to gauge from Wifi more recently since I haven't had time to attend even Smashfests. I've also been trying to close off some of the characters I play, but idk.

No DK vs Pit

Apparently no Ike for anything so far, he doesn't cover much of any MUs like SB said and has a lot of bad ones and people can just CC him (watch GF of Prof Pro vs this one Ike)

Squirtle vs Pit and Zelda
Beat Fruitloop with'em, then he switched to Fox and Up-smashed me on Yoshis (I shoulda tried to convince him to Falco ditto or something lol. Or Pit ditto). Most people don't get the Squirtle MU, especially Pits apparently. Octorok didn't until he does now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEkjOGcYEMs#t=594
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=T5A2ulVgLUU#t=875

DK vs Fox?, and possibly Marth if find it's better for DK than Diddy (well I hear and see it is but it's one my style doesn't work with), possibly Sonic (beat Sol game 1 battefield, then blew the other two games with squirtle on his Fod cp and ike on sv)

MK vs Falco purists (who won't switch to Fox, unless I find Fox isn't that bad for MK but I suspect it is) and apparently Sonic

Diddy vs possibly Falco, possibly Ness, possibly CF (or otherwise DK for him), possibly DK, possibly Link, probably ZSS, possibly D3, possibly MK

ZSS vs Bowser (Kirk though is knowledgable vs ZSS, but he also plays DLA's diddy practice so Idk what ima do, MK isn't good vs Bowser, possibly DK)

vs Lucas/Sheik/Mew2/Kirby/Snake idk

vs Ganon I'd either go Diddy or DK

vs Mario probly Diddy

vs Wolf prolly DK or Diddy, this one is really volatile in my mind and I need to get practice on this

vs Diddy I might do the Ditto but if it goes south I might idk who'd I switch to

I also got a Falco, don't know when I'd use him, there's not much hope in pulling him out vs any of the Melee veterans. He's 100% my Melee character though, can't decide if I'll enter Melee at UFGT though.

I have no clue about stages, I generally just go battlefield. and Skyworld vs Spacies but Kels prolly remembers to ban that against me now since I've beatem there all of the last 2 times. I'm not sure what stage list is for UFGT, but Chicago as been removing Skyloft from the stage list when that seems to be a decent MK/Squirtle stage, seems like a crap Diddy stage though.

I need all of the knowledge from other Diddies, including boss, how do I ping him @boss8 tell me what MUs and Stages and strategies to do and not do.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Wow @ Seagull Joe . You've still got a lot to learn, but its so funny how I used to agree with the list of chars you think are better than diddy/diddy loses to.

Diddy doesn't lose to marth, but it can be a hassle as well. Keep at it, you'll get that one down soon. Same as sheik, but sheiks definitely more of an uphill battle than marth. We still have the upper hand tho.

Characters that are better than diddy imo are fox, Lucas, falco, and very soon in potential are possibly pit and Mario. Things are possible.

Lucarios a double edged sword. Don't be fooled now, one day you'll play a lucario with some sweet combos.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

As for MUs we struggle with but are still winnable in order of 'very' to '**** that's hard' imo go: link,peach, pit, sonic, wolf, Roy, Rob, snake, M2, Kirby, Mario, sheik, MK, TL, Lucas, Fox.

Just my opinion of course, with such a young game and the skill gap of our top players spread out across the country, hard to really give you guys a proper heads up. But the amount of people And regions I've been around, I feel this is the most accurate list of 'scary **** for diddy' chars off the top of my head.

 

[DeFish]

I'm actually starting to hate playing against Yoshi too. He has so many ways to negate bananas that it almost feels like a waste to really try to use them.

 

[didds]

That's funny, I was just about to bring up Yoshi.

He's got the mobility to compete with Diddy and a completely vicious punish game. And that double jump combo breaker.

This is from the perspective of someone who also puts a lot of time into Yoshi.

When it comes down to it I'd say they both have the potential to completely wreck each other.

edit: lucas is gahlike

edit2: or eli is or something, im so forgetful

 

[Soft Serve]

The matchups that I switch characters for, because I don't like the Diddy MU, are pretty much Falco, wolf, Mario, shiek, Pit, and sometimes roy kirby and lucas. Thats where I bust out my pocket watch because Other than Lucas (the only lucas I would play here is pretty much Neon and he would destroy me no matter what) I feel more comfortable with GnW vs those characters. GnW doesn't get punished as hard in most match-ups and between crouching, bucket, CC>dtilt, and WD back >Dtilt/fsmash I have options to deal with all of their projectiles are approaches. I don't think Mario shiek roy or kirby are bad matchups for diddy, at the worst I'd say mario and shiek are like 60-40 them, but the I feel the Burden of counterplay is a lot more on diddy in those matchups.

I still don't know what to do against Falcons. I haven't had serious trouble against a snake yet, but I haven't played a campy one yet. We don't have a lot of rob players but I don't think the MU is that bad. Disqo are you basing your opinion off of playing Oracle's ROB?

I do Cop out and play Fox sometimes though, because I put way much more time into playing him in Melee than I do playing PM. I only really do Fox vs other fox's I'm certain I can beat, Peaches and Jiggs I want to camp out, and Toonlinks because that MU is 70/30 fox and its fantastic.

 

[Seagull Joe]

As for MUs we struggle with but are still winnable in order of 'very' to '**** that's hard' imo go: link,peach, pit, sonic, wolf, Roy, Rob, snake, M2, Kirby, Mario, sheik, MK, TL, Lucas, Fox.

Just my opinion of course, with such a young game and the skill gap of our top players spread out across the country, hard to really give you guys a proper heads up. But the amount of people And regions I've been around, I feel this is the most accurate list of 'scary **** for diddy' chars off the top of my head.

I think beats , , , , and . is just so predictable in what he does looool. I hate ...**** Chu.

I think most of our opinions of mains stems from our regions top players. I need to travel OoS more to gain more experience. I'll definitely be at SKTAR. Still unsure if I'm even going to enter brawl singles loool.

The matchups that I switch characters for, because I don't like the Diddy MU, are pretty much Falco, wolf, Mario, shiek, Pit, and sometimes roy kirby and lucas. Thats where I bust out my pocket watch because Other than Lucas (the only lucas I would play here is pretty much Neon and he would destroy me no matter what) I feel more comfortable with GnW vs those characters. GnW doesn't get punished as hard in most match-ups and between crouching, bucket, CC>dtilt, and WD back >Dtilt/fsmash I have options to deal with all of their projectiles are approaches. I don't think Mario shiek roy or kirby are bad matchups for diddy, at the worst I'd say mario and shiek are like 60-40 them, but the I feel the Burden of counterplay is a lot more on diddy in those matchups.

I still don't know what to do against Falcons. I haven't had serious trouble against a snake yet, but I haven't played a campy one yet. We don't have a lot of rob players but I don't think the MU is that bad. Disqo are you basing your opinion off of playing Oracle's ROB?

I do Cop out and play Fox sometimes though, because I put way much more time into playing him in Melee than I do playing PM. I only really do Fox vs other fox's I'm certain I can beat, Peaches and Jiggs I want to camp out, and Toonlinks because that MU is 70/30 fox and its fantastic.

The only character I would switch off to is because I alt and the vs matchup is a hassle. It's probably even, but it's just irritating.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

I'm not saying diddy doesn't beat those chars, I'm just stating its a hassle, but still winnable, and ordered it in that sort of way.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Oracles ROB, jceasars ROB, Bstuks ROB, and BDRs ROB are what I'm basing that off of.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Triple post Cuz **** the police!

Diddys definitely top 5.

That is all.

#Diddypocalypse
#1DiddyToRuleThemAll
#Kongmunism
#IBleedInBanana

 

[Soft Serve]

#BananaBreadCombos

 

[Seagull Joe]

Oracles ROB, jceasars ROB, Bstuks ROB, and BDRs ROB are what I'm basing that off of.

I can consistently beat Jcaesar's now and beat Bstuk 3-0 in tourney loool.

 

[Praxis]

is garbage. Maybe I'm just spoiled because I think beats him badly.

Can you explain why? I'm genuinely curious. Lucario seems extremely good from my perspective- basically all the stuff he had in Brawl plus ridiculous shield pressure, gamechanging spirit bombs, and an improved recovery.

Characters that are better then are: , , , , , , , and possibly /. I'm not saying these characters all beat , but I think they would be higher then him on a tier list.

I fully agree with this. I think Marth is also possibly better.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Can you explain why? I'm genuinely curious. Lucario seems extremely good from my perspective- basically all the stuff he had in Brawl plus ridiculous shield pressure, gamechanging spirit bombs, and an improved recovery.

I fully agree with this. I think Marth is also possibly better.

I just think has a lot of trouble against bananas. Plus his recovery leaves him wide open to getting hit by our up b. I haven't fought a top level yet, but this is just my general ideas. I figure that if gets one grab off and bthrow/fthrow's he resets all the position has fought to gain. can then setup camp, which isn't easy for to get through.

 

[whatgoingon]

How is the glide toss executed?

 

[Soft Serve]

How is the glide toss executed?

Glide tosses are executed by rolling and canceling the roll animation with an item toss within 3(4?) frames of the beginning of the roll. For most characters it maintains some of the rolling momentum. It is useful as an OoS option and as a tech chase and stage control option because it allows distances to be close quickly while throwing an item, as well as being able to control vertical space by tossing the item upwards, or baiting and controlling ground space by tossing the item down.

Aerial Glide tosses (AGTs) are fundamentally identical to glide tosses, except that you do them with an airdodge. They still have the same input window, and the same toss options (up down left right) however are more flexible because you can do it mid air and have all options of direction you do out of an airdodge, as well as all of the distances possible. The combinations possible are effectivly endless, although you don't really use 90% of them.

Just Roll/air dodge with an item in hand and toss the item (I find c-sticks most useful for tossing it, as other directions than the roll are a lot easier) within 4 frames or so of the initial roll/dodge.

 

[whatgoingon]

Glide tosses are executed by rolling and canceling the roll animation with an item toss within 3(4?) frames of the beginning of the roll. For most characters it maintains some of the rolling momentum. It is useful as an OoS option and as a tech chase and stage control option because it allows distances to be close quickly while throwing an item, as well as being able to control vertical space by tossing the item upwards, or baiting and controlling ground space by tossing the item down.

Aerial Glide tosses (AGTs) are fundamentally identical to glide tosses, except that you do them with an airdodge. They still have the same input window, and the same toss options (up down left right) however are more flexible because you can do it mid air and have all options of direction you do out of an airdodge, as well as all of the distances possible. The combinations possible are effectivly endless, although you don't really use 90% of them.

Just Roll/air dodge with an item in hand and toss the item (I find c-sticks most useful for tossing it, as other directions than the roll are a lot easier) within 4 frames or so of the initial roll/dodge.

Thanks a lot I've never even heard of this, this sounds like a great tool, I'll have to start practicing this
Also is this how you bomb jump with link?

 

[SpiderMad]

I want to make a video on everything glide toss but it eats up an entire day doing it solo

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

I can consistently beat Jcaesar's now and beat Bstuk 3-0 in tourney loool.

Your point is?

 

[~@~Tilde~@~]

I haven't fought a top level yet...

You should send SmashG0D a PM. He's MD/VA, knows the Diddy MU (Junebug as a sparring buddy), and I hear he has a Lucario.

 

[SpiderMad]

The only character I would switch off to is because I alt and the vs matchup is a hassle. It's probably even, but it's just irritating.

It's easy on FD, but otherwise it feels like it sucks. I think I'd rather go Falco/Mario, same against Sheik. I do need to test all the stages against them though.

What's the secret to beating Rob? What am I suppose to be predicting and how should I punish it?

Also the more I play Diddy, the more running Up-smash is tremendous

 

[didds]

Thanks a lot I've never even heard of this, this sounds like a great tool, I'll have to start practicing this
Also is this how you bomb jump with link?

yes it is, literally every character can, it's just more practical for characters who actually have items to use.

 

[Praxis]

So guys?

Diddy counters Giga Bowser.

His trip animation is hilariously huge and you can't miss him with the followup banana no matter which way he rolls. Once he gets enough damage from being infinitely tripped, usmash combos to utilt to utilt to utilt to nair to nair to nair to nair....

 

[didds]

My god...

10/mygods

 

[Soft Serve]

The real question is, do you leave Distant planet open for his counter pick? what if GigaBowser WD's and catches it? how long is his glide toss?

 

[didds]

my god...

20/mygods

 

[Praxis]

Don't care about Giga Bowser's glide toss, the naner will go over your head, he's too tall!

It was glorious, I was repeatedly beating a guy in PM, and he got frustrated and picked Giga Bowser. I said, "Sure, why not" and then almost zero death'd him off a naner. That's when I realized Giga Bowser is bad and the Smash community are a bunch of scrubs for banning him prematurely.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Your point is?

The matchup is 's favor.

You should send SmashG0D a PM. He's MD/VA, knows the Diddy MU (Junebug as a sparring buddy), and I hear he has a Lucario.

I'm not gonna send my own crew member a PM to play looool.

It's easy on FD, but otherwise it feels like it sucks. I think I'd rather go Falco/Mario, same against Sheik. I do need to test all the stages against them though.

What's the secret to beating Rob? What am I suppose to be predicting and how should I punish it?

Also the more I play Diddy, the more running Up-smash is tremendous

I'd say to watch any brawl video since it's basically the same matchup again just sped up.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Lol I've never said it wasn't. I said it can sometimes be a struggle. Don't forget, you live in a region where diddy is an unknown force that no one has much experience with. Of course things will be a cake walk for a while, but a good part of the cast can be a huge pain when the player becomes a bit more adept to diddy and/or bananas

 

[didds]

You talk like bananas can be used against Diddy or something.

 

[Praxis]

Lucario's glide toss is so good it makes me sad

 

[Praxis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=758zG_1IhDM

Nerf Diddy Kong gaiz, Fox isn't even that great

 

[SpiderMad]

on bf you gotta dash attack off platforms to rar reverse up-smash m2k