Kittens versus Domo-kuns - Game over, who won?

[ranmaru]

Who said I didn't want to lynch him ToDay? I'm just wagoning Moth for now.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@Zen & Gord: Swiss asked Moth how he planned to change his play style to to rectify his mistakes, and he was just answering that, so it seems justified to me.

@Zen: Do you still want me to do that ISO?

 

[Dooms]

So... I'm gonna post what I had coming, re-read, and then I'll answer stuff.

 

[Tandora]

Another wild Domo-kun appears!

Vote Count:
J(1): Shadow Moth,
Sworddancer (1):Gordito
Ranmaru (1): J
Shadow Moth(3): Swiss, Fynal, Ranmaru

Not Voting: Zen, JO_OEY, Sworddancer

 

[Fynal]

@ran: #153, 158 at some point would be nice.

 

[ranmaru]

sorry, that question was formatted exceptionally badly, and btw our PPP must be different lol

im referring to your initial stated reason against gord, #125

explain please, why what he said was scummy, particularly what you bolded, and not including the bit concerning swiss's vote (which i understand)

I never said that the bolded was scummy, I was asking why he thought it was coming from scum in his mind.

Oh, I did say that HIS vote on Swords was forced, but I was asking why he thought my vote on Swords was coming from scum. Those are two different situations.

J's vote on Sword was good. I just wagoned Swords, I wasn't really for a lynch of Swords at all. Gord really thinks that Swords is scum for

1. Letting people know you should have been looked at
2. For trying to get an easy lynch on you
3. And for attacking Fynal, but not Moth.

Those are not good reasons for Gord to be on Sword. The first, is legit. Second, wasn't really happening because he was the first vote, out of RVS. The last one I'm not sure, I didn't really pay attention to the "new playstyle" thing and to see if Moth was doing the same thing or not.

Since a wagon was already forming on Swords, it was a good opportunity for Gord to focus on Swords for a bit.

Unvote Vote: Gord

 

[Xivii]

Nah @ Sword.

I need to think about this game now.

 

[ranmaru]

EBWOP: The first reason is NOT legit, because Sword's asking for Fynal to be looked at is legit, to be clear.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

You're basically saying "I wouldn't do this, therefore I'm town"
Really don't like this post.

This actually still holds up even after my reveal so I'll talk about it.

You misunderstood me. I do not care for meta, which is kinda the point I was making. Gord used meta against me, so I used meta back. If he's allowed to use meta against me, then I should only fairly be allowed to use meta to defend myself.

 

[Fynal]

I just wagoned Swords, I wasn't really for a lynch of Swords at all.

@Shadow Moth: iirc, you didn't like ran because he wanted to wagon->lynch swords. What do you think of this statement? do you believe it? does it change your view on ran?

 

[ranmaru]

@Swords: What are your reads now? What are your thoughts about the recent events?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@#106 - correct.

Moth exactly why do you dislike me, apart from the fact that I'll have a deep rooted, seething hate for you as long as you (or me, but you) are alive. Have you ever been tunnelled before? Do you think you'll enjoy it?

Don't get the Fynal hate. Someone walk me through it.

Zen what was your Gord stance before his #97?

Joey - stances?

@ Whoever asked - Swords leans town. We'll find out after he decided whether to wagon Moth with me or not.

Well, I think I've recently explained what the "Fynal hate" was all really about.

About the Moth wagon, I'm honestly not too sure on. The only problem with him is that he's conservative with his vote, but I really don't see why he deserve to be wagon at this point (haven't read past this post yet). Why do you want him wagoned?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

So let's see what been buzzin.

Oh wait I get it S = shadow... so Smoth = ...

No where in this post does Fynal say "I shouldn't be excused for being a noob." What do you think about the bolded post?

It doesn't say anything to me atm. The "setting up the noob card" will only really be scummy when it's brought up in a later time. If I was in Sword's position and saw that as a setup for the noob card, I'd wait for Fynal to use to actually USE the noob card to call em out, and say that that post was a setup for a noob card being used. Noob card wasn't used. And that's why it's offsetting to me.

Note that moth says "I have been trying," meaning that its not a new playstyle. The post that you're talking about (I'm assuming) is:

-snip-

"I've been playing..." implies that its not a new playstyle and that he's been using it recently. Is there something else that implies that he's using a brand new play style?

I'm doing this in an attempt to not look super townie so scum defaults to me for a NK and so that if I do get NK'd I can get as much info as possible while I'm alive.

Watchu get from this?

 

[Fynal]

Man I already like J.

He didn't seem to be try'na set up the noob card in any angle. In fact, iirc, he was saying that he shouldn't be excused for being a noob. But truth be told, I can say the same about YOU try'na go for a relatively easy lynch target.

Vote: Sword

In fact, Moth's talking about trying a new playstyle can be perceived as him try'na excuse future scummy behavior with "lol i'm experimenting". Seems really bad on your part bro.

this whole statement is off... i dont see how theres any way that i said i shouldnt be excused for being a newbie, and why would swords be trying to lynch me with the first vote out of RVS. gord could have meant "easy vote target" though, i guess...

and also, from that same post...

<[quote containing shadow moth's joke]>

I promise you'll be staying alive regardless of alignment if you keep being funny.

I don't like Sword. I don't like Ran (can't tell if it's just cuz of him or cuz it's legit scummy yet so ). And everybody else is fine for now.

interesting. particularly when combined with his dislike of swiss's vote on Moth.

 

[Fynal]

EBWOP lolninjagord, again. reading now, statement on hold.

 

[ranmaru]

@Gord: That's all you have to say? Do you have new reads, and what are your thoughts on the recent events? Is it possible Swords may have been wrong? If so, can you explain what?

@Swords: Please answer my #172.

 

[Fynal]

sentiments stand.

gord, what do you think about this:

Well, okay, I think I can go on with the reveal now.

unvote

Of course I didn't really think Fynal was scummy based off of the simple possibility that he might be "using the newb card." I was more so interested in how he and others would react, and I DID want to preemptively shut down the option for him, just in case. Plus, I wanted to get this game moving faster.

I think I've accomplished that, so I should be moving on now.

it's motives, legitimacy, etc?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Fynal's #121 is okay. Ran's #122 is lolwtf. You put Moth at L-2 with zero backing. Ran's #123 is even more lolwtf. This isn't what EVERYBODY means by being more concise.

So? How would that make me scum?

I don't take it as you being scum, per se, but it's def. noteworthy for me. Notice how I'm not voting you and never explicitly called you scum. I wanna get more of a feel for your alignment.

J your town is showing.

Gord because his vote on Swords is forced. Plus his "Your Moth vote is ********" poke.

I was really thinking you weren't serious -_-.

Why has no-one brought this up? Has someone brought this up? I haven't actually read through properly yet. Joke over reaction to joke pressure, with no content either side even though there is content to discuss. Vote: Moth

Show me the rationale. No Swiss don't answer this.

Ranmaru your reasoning is almost completely senseless. It's almost like you wanna attack your attackers. Nothing you say holds water. If Moth were to flip town, then how would your read on me be affected? If I were to flip town, then how would your read on Moth be affected?

 

[Dooms]

So like I just deleted this huge post I was working on. Time to summarize!

FoS: Gordito

Your reasons for voting Sword is BS. He was not trying to force a lynch upon Fynal for preparing a noob card based on the way I am viewing it, and Moth implied that this is not the first game that he has tried to use this play style. Are there any other reasons besides this? Your statement about Ran in #75 left me feeling lost since I had no idea as to if it was serious, what it was talking about, and why you quoted one word instead of any of his bigger posts.

Ran, your play is crappy. Randomly voting Moth without giving reasons why is completely BS, and I don't like it at all. You're mainly voting Moth for playing safe and OMGUS, one of which is a really bad reason and the other isn't vote worthy. You trying to start a wagon on Swords so early is also really bad, and your play in between doesn't make me feel any better about you.

FoS: Ranmaru

Lol @ calling three people not town when there are only two anti-town players XD!

J's play is not that well either. The top of his 90 is dumb. You're basically whiteknighting Fynal this whole time, defending against Sword's attempts to put pressure on Fynal to the point where Fynal doesn't even respond to his points. That means that the pressure on Fynal is obviously being nullified. Other than that, he hasn't really made me feel he's scummy or anything. That alone is not really FoS worthy.

Fynal not responding to Sword's callout on him planning a newb-card is blech. He asks for us to explain how playing a noob card is scummy, and he thinks swords is scummy based on not asking questions to back up his vote, but he doesn't respond to the specific call out of him possibly planning a noob card. I don't like it. In fact, it looks like he's avoiding it completely. Swords asked him questions about it, and swords simply got ignored.

Vote: Fynal

I don't see the SM hate. Null-town at the moment.

Swords is town, because I feel the intent behind him questioning Fynal's noob-card preparations was more townie than scummy, especially since he got no legit response out of it.

Swiss is null. I don't know if he's town or not this game as of yet. I can see why he's voting moth, but I don't agree with it, since joking like that shouldn't be a scum tell in my opinion.

Zen is null. I really haven't seen many legit thoughts from him so far. Hand-holding is null.

@Gord: I'm assuming that the last quote is a Shadow Moth quote. I honestly don't like it, but I'm not going to attack his play style at this point in the game, since he's been playing it for more than one game, one of which where he recently flipped town, so I'm not going to look into it.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Unvote

Swords is looking a bit better, but I still wanna keep an eye on em. I GUESS I can see a town Sword voting Fynal for reaction fishing... but I'm keeping an eye out for em. Still my second scum pick. But Vote: Ranmaru is looking much more out of it.

How's this guy not have more than just J as a vote? His reasoning for finding J to be "possible scum" is almost entirely grounded by the fact that J never likes em in any games they're in together if I read this shiz right. I don't get it. He says my vote on Sword was forced... but he was on that wagon, and is copping out by saying "lolpressure". Well I'm claiming my vote on Sword to be pressure, so now any scumminess that you found, Ran, is nullified. Like that reasoning bro? And then he brings up me saying Swiss' moth vote was ********. The only reason he finds that scummy is cuz he's saying Moth is scummier. Me saying that isn't scummy. Get that through your head.

 

[ranmaru]

@Gord: Check my #166. See if those reason's don't hold water. Well I didn't like the poke because it seemed like you came out of no where with defending Moth. But Fynal made a good point that you may not have liked Swiss's vote because Swiss didn't like the joke, and you like jokes. Moth flipping town wouldn't affect my scum read on you. You flipping town would make me have to re-evaluate my reads on everyone. But I don't think you'll flip town, sorry.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@Swords: What are your reads now? What are your thoughts about the recent events?

Ah yeah, I'm sorry, but I forgot to post the results of my little Fynal experiment.

Basically, for now I'm willing to place it like this:

null leaning town:

J
Ran
Fynal

null leaning scum:

Moth

Everyone else is null.

J: I'm giving a slight town read to J because I do think that his call out of me using FUD was legit, so as strange as this sounds, I actually like that about him. His advice dog call out was dumb but I'm willing to look over that.

Ran: I'm giving a slight town read to you because, as Zen said, I don't see anything wrong with you. Plus, I like how you gave me the benefit of the doubt to drop the Fynal thing, instead of just going on about it. Kinda shows that you actually care.

Fynal: From what I've seen on him, he's legit scum hunting and all. Not getting hung up on me seems protown. Again, a sign of thinking and actually caring about things.

Gord: Agree with Fynal's 174. If he couldn't see Fynal setting up the noob card then fine, after all even I really didn't believe that. However, he votes me because I was "trying to get an easy target lynch?" What? It's just the start of the Day, I placed a vote on Fynal, accusing him of setting up the noob card, and he jumps to the conclusion that I'm already gunning for an easy lynch. The game just started, and hell, I was barely even attacking Fynal, more so just defending myself against other.

I don't get the part were he suggests I might be lying. Well, of course, anyone might be lying. How am I suppose to defend against that?

Gord's only slightly scummy but he's as good as anyone else.

vote Gord

@Gord: What may you think that I was already going for a lynch? How do you suppose anyone can defend against simply being accused of lying (btw, didn't bring this point up previously but it still holds merit)? What do you think of me now?

Also, another things. Unless I'm mistaken, don't you not like meta? You say you're "only using it as a lead," but why even that? I'm pretty sure you know that meta is bad because it's relaying on the possibility that the person in question hasn't changed their playstyle.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Unvote

Swords is looking a bit better, but I still wanna keep an eye on em. I GUESS I can see a town Sword voting Fynal for reaction fishing... but I'm keeping an eye out for em. Still my second scum pick. But Vote: Ranmaru is looking much more out of it.

How's this guy not have more than just J as a vote? His reasoning for finding J to be "possible scum" is almost entirely grounded by the fact that J never likes em in any games they're in together if I read this shiz right. I don't get it. He says my vote on Sword was forced... but he was on that wagon, and is copping out by saying "lolpressure". Well I'm claiming my vote on Sword to be pressure, so now any scumminess that you found, Ran, is nullified. Like that reasoning bro? And then he brings up me saying Swiss' moth vote was ********. The only reason he finds that scummy is cuz he's saying Moth is scummier. Me saying that isn't scummy. Get that through your head.

Gosh darn it Gord don't ninja me like that.

Fine, it's fair for you to say that about me. Still please respond to my points.

Also Ran said that he saw a possible connection between J and Moth (although I think that's reaching).

 

[ranmaru]

@Joey: Why is starting a wagon on Swords really bad? Wagons are good, they can give solid info to the town afterwords.

My vote on Moth was wagony too, but I didn't care because he was slightly scummy.

@Swords: Yes, it did. Most likely I saw Fynal post some good points about Moth, and I thought it would be a good place to put my vote. Essentially, to get things going.

Yeah I guess. I guess J is null, and I don't really see much connections between them. I concede to that point. Gord I am confident on.

 

[ranmaru]

@Joey: Take it as you will. I don't think Fynal is scum though. T v T.

Btw, the Moth thing wasn't omgus. Plus, the more votes on someone, the more pressure. Did you see Moth say anything while his wagon grew? He didn't say much.

But yeah, wagoning is good, because it helps get info and reactions. The only bad part is that it doesn't help people get a good read on the person doing that. Yet, I'm not wagoning on Gord now, I'm actually pretty confident on him being scum. I took Fynal being pro-active and attacking Moth as a town tell.

Btw, I said possibly not town, I didn't say they were all definite scum. You can have 2-3 scumpicks even if there are only two mafia in the game. But sorry for not being clear.

@Gord: I never said I wanted him lynched though. You said you were for his lynch, and you were pushing for it. Now you taking it back so that my scumread on you is nullified? Now that's scummy.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

*Yawn* I'm tired now, so I'm going to bed. I noticed that a lot of Joey's reads are kinda in contradiction to mine, so I'll get to that tomorrow. Night yall.

 

[Dooms]

Trying to start a wagon so early in the game is not what benefits the town for two reasons:

Its probably not going to gain anything for the town, since its so early and you don't have enough reason to wagon him anyways.

Sword knows very well that as long as he responds somewhat well, then nothing bad will happen to him. As scum, he could easily make up a statement and the wagon would be shut down early because of the lack of information on him.

 

[ranmaru]

I thought it was fine for an RVS ice breaker. Course you won't have much reason, but you'll get others to join on possibly. You get stances. You get reasons to back those stances, therefore you get info.

Here is the thing, Swords was already being attacked from early RVS. He was already being pressured, so if a Wagon starts, others might join. Others won't. So you'll have to think why others didn't join, and why others did. I didn't really get a scum vibe from his early vote, plus it prodded discussion.

"Knowing that he can respond well will keep him safe" is a possibility, so you can't really gain a read from that. So I don't really follow on the second reason.

 

[Fynal]

@joey: my #126. I, in all honesty, missed that he had specifically asked, and my answer about sums up why i didn't know how to directly respond. arguing over what my intent was seems kinda useless

@swords: yes lol i thought you were legitly attacking me, (why i didn't want to say "i didn't intend to set up a noobcard", i thought you'd auto-yell BS, etc) but honestly where you were coming from made enough sense that i had a hard time seeing you as scummy for it. You're null to me, have been for a while, null-leaning-probably-not-scum if that makes any sense.

@joey: apparently you don't see the SM hate. Are there any specific accusations you could respond to, i.e. explain why they're not actually scumtells?

 

[Dooms]

...Nevermind @ Fynal. I missed his post completely. He just missed the question!

Unvote
Vote: Ranmaru

I feel that Ranmaru is a better option than Gord, simply because he hasn't been backing up his votes or claims until asked why, while Gord has.

@Ran: You voted Moth because of him playing safe and him calling you scum for bad reasons. You never said what the "bad reasons" were, so I'm assuming it was OMGUS, which makes you scummy.

You said two people were not town, and J was probably not town. Lol. It's fine to have more than two scum reads, but calling two people not town and a third person probably not town when theres only two scum makes you seem way too sure about your picks.

 

[Dooms]

Aaaand Ninja'd. Getting on that Fynal.

 

[Tandora]

It is a little known fact that Domo-kuns are masters of disguise.

Vote Count:
Ranmaru (3): J, Gordito, Joey
Shadow Moth(2): Swiss, Fynal
Gordito(2): Ranmaru, Sworddancer

Not Voting: Zen, Shadow Moth

WITH 9 ALIVE, IT TAKES 5 TO LYNCH!

 

[#HBC | J]

This is the game I'm gonna be responding to first I can tomorrow. It's the most fun.

Plus I feel like a psychic for something I said earlier in the thread about two people. xD

 

[ranmaru]

@Joey: He said I was blatantly trying to get more votes onto Swords. I only said "A wagon snap would be nice", but I wasn't really pushing for it. He said I wanted a lynch, but I said I wanted some wagon votes. Not omgus. Especially since others were already suspicious of me, that's 1 more than 2. So I'm not going to hesitate on attacking because it may be omgus.

Now, Joey, how do you feel about Gord's #180? What do you think of my #166?

 

[Dooms]

Shadow Moth's post responding to the vote on him in early game was nothing but RVS and a joke, and thats nothing but a null tell. In case anyone is wondering, the inside joke is from Skype mafia, where a scummy was asked to role claim, and he said "Uhhh... Town", got lynched, and flipped scum. But anyways, any vote on him for this is complete BS and stupid.

Ran did try to start a wagon on Sword early game, so the reason for Ran finding him scummy is true.

I don't see where he is saying "hes not worth attacking, i'll be watching though" in the post you quoted in #121

 

[Dooms]

EBWOP: "Ran finding him scummy" should be "him finding Ran scummy".

 

[Fynal]

gonna go ahead and go to sleep too, g'night all

@tanny: i like the flavor lol

 

[Fynal]

I don't see where he is saying "hes not worth attacking, i'll be watching though" in the post you quoted in #121

damn the ninjas, now i feel obliged to stay up longer. gimmie a sec.

 

[Xivii]

Uhh don't lynch while I'm gone. Probably V/LA most of tomorrow.

 

[Dooms]

Ranmaru now you're lying. He said you were trying to force more votes on for a wagon. Not for a lynch. Voting for him and saying a wagon on him would be nice means you're pushing a wagon on him. It still looks like straight up OMGUS to me.