Kirby's Warp Star Adventure: Kirby's Stage Discussion *Meta Knight Talk*

[Kewkky]

Humm, it's curious seeing everyone's different choices of stages for counterpicking against MK. Pirate Ship, Pokemon Stadium, PictoChat, Yoshi's Island, neutrals, hazardous stages (Norfair/Brinstar)... Interesting!

I usually pick BattleField as my choice for a counter against him (unless it's our first stage). Even though he has incredible platform dominance, so does Kirby (plus our usmashes reach the platforms, giving us a surprise attack when we dthrow them and they end up on top of the platforms)... I also pick Final Destination, since having no advantages could be an advantage in and of itself...! And I never pick SmashVille. The moving platform gives MK the ability to SL/Dsmash close to the blast zones and return safe and sound.

Normal counterpics.... I'd have to go with Lylat Cruise. His SL might auto sweetspot every time, but when you predict his SL and attempt an edgehog and succeed, there's nothing he can do but fly under the stage and die (I've done it before, I have a video as proof, even though it was teams). The many platforms gives us the ability to move around and not have to land in front of him, the tilting doesn't affect us at all, sliding rocks at the edges could be a nice mindgame (although situational), and the ceiling and sides have decent distance from the stage, helping us survive SLs, Dsmashes and Fsmashes.

 

[fromundaman]

Normal counterpics.... I'd have to go with Lylat Cruise. His SL might auto sweetspot every time, but when you predict his SL and attempt an edgehog and succeed, there's nothing he can do but fly under the stage and die (I've done it before, I have a video as proof, even though it was teams). The many platforms gives us the ability to move around and not have to land in front of him, the tilting doesn't affect us at all, sliding rocks at the edges could be a nice mindgame (although situational), and the ceiling and sides have decent distance from the stage, helping us survive SLs, Dsmashes and Fsmashes.

Don't forget he can recover with DR. In fact, especially on that stage, it's usually the best way for him to recover, especially since he can go under the stage and recover with it to either edge.

DR is also MK's best vertical recovery move, though many MKs don't know that, try to SL from way too low, and end up killing themselves.

 

[Kewkky]

Don't forget he can recover with DR. In fact, especially on that stage, it's usually the best way for him to recover, especially since he can go under the stage and recover with it to either edge.

DR is also MK's best vertical recovery move, though many MKs don't know that, try to SL from way too low, and end up killing themselves.

Drill Rush can be punished with a downwards-angled fsmash, and also well-aimed dairs. If the MK's don't know this, it's an enormous advantage for us, if they waste all their jumps getting just the right distance between them and the edges so they can DR towards them (fsmashed push them farther away from the edges, dairs gimp MKs!).

 

[fromundaman]

Yeah, I knew about Dair, and Fsmash, although it can hit, won't if they sweetspot the ledge. But anyway that's not the point.

My point was that there's a point under the stage on Lylat where they can DR and reach either ledge, meaning they can just aim for the one you aren't guarding to recover.
Still, most MKs won't know this.
They also have a bunch of cool DR tricks on JJ, but few know about them.

 

[Kewkky]

My point was that there's a point under the stage on Lylat where they can DR and reach either ledge, meaning they can just aim for the one you aren't guarding to recover.

Ahh, NOW I understand..... Yeah, that's pretty much unpunisheable. Well, not like it's adviceable for a player to try to gimp MK, so we would've had to wait until he recovered so we could continue our assault. Offstage vs MK is not a good idea unless YOU'RE the one near the stage.

They also have a bunch of cool DR tricks on JJ, but few know about them.

Hmm................... Interesting. I see where this is going... *drill rushes from one side of the stage to the other, from underneath the platforms*

 

[fromundaman]

Hmm................... Interesting. I see where this is going... *drill rushes from one side of the stage to the other, from underneath the platforms*

Pretty much. It allows him to block the edge/platform on the side and get easy kills off the side without suffering the DR ending lag.

 

[RoflWafflez]

But wouldnt Drill Rushing from one platform to another leave him open to Kirby d-airs from above, sending him right into the water? Thats what i envision anyway...

 

[Kewkky]

But wouldnt Drill Rushing from one platform to another leave him open to Kirby d-airs from above, sending him right into the water? Thats what i envision anyway...

I don't think a normal, human Kirby mainer would have the reaction time to do that... o_o

And I don't think Kirby's dair goes through the stage's floor... Then again, I haven't tried it, so my word is moot.

 

[TwilightKirby]

And I don't think Kirby's dair goes through the stage's floor... Then again, I haven't tried it, so my word is moot.

It does, I've spiked an olimar through PS1 edge who was doing their uair through the ground trick before.

And against MK I think you should avoid stages with walkoffs and close sides as its probably more likely the MK will get an early kill on you than vice versa. Also I've heard a few people say MK is bad on Japes but I don't really know how accurate that is, might just be that they don't like playing on that stage lol. Personally I just stay on neutralish stages against MK.

 

[fromundaman]

But wouldnt Drill Rushing from one platform to another leave him open to Kirby d-airs from above, sending him right into the water? Thats what i envision anyway...

Nah, you essentially DR under the platform, and the pointy part sticks outwards from the ledge, whereas MK is actually right where he would normally grab the ledge, meaning he goes from a disjoincted hitbox to ledge invul, if that made any sense. I'll try to see if the match where I witnessed this was recorded to show you what I mean.

And no, our Dair won't hit under those platforms. The PS1 edge is weird. You can Dsmash through it too for a stagespike, but that won't work on Japes either.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I'll end the Meta Knight talk as of now. Voting for new character starts now. Since the new match up thread is talking about Sonic, let's talk about how to do his stages. But of course you guys can vote for a new character. ☆

 

[A1lion835]

I'd discuss Sonic's stages for now for the reason you mentioned.

 

[§leepy God]

♫ Ness well you can do Sonic if you want to. ☼

 

[fromundaman]

Well, the Sonic around here bans Norfair a lot, so I'd say that's probably a good place to bring him.

Japes COULD be good due to the high ceiling, but at the same time, that's about all I can think of that would help there, and it wouldn't even hinder Sonic *too* much.

Pictochat might be a good idea? *shrugs*

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Sonic it is: ☆

Character Talk #5 Sonic

Counter Pick Against: ?

Stage Strike: ?

Banned: ?​

☆ I haven't Brawled enough Sonic mains to know what stage is good for him. I'll find out in a few days though. ☆

 

[§leepy God]

♫ Flat stage's means that he'll run all day until you die. Go with stages that's changes, or has platforms so Sonic can't relay on ground game. ☼

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ ****, I think this was a bad idea, no one's coming to give their advice. Should I do another character or keep Sonic? ☆

 

[Allied]

keep sonic i'd say just for like a little bit more

Neutrals

your best imo is battlefield due to less mobility for sonic and easy kills off the side
however its also a bad stage due to the ceiling its your choose really

Counterpicks should be

Jungle japes because of high ceiling
Rainbow Cruise because kirby ***** here and less mobility for sonic
or even pokemon stadium 1

i dont know what to ban tho
0_o

 

[Lovely]

The Neutral list is good for Sonic except for Pokemon Stadium or Smashville to me. There is a number of place to counter pick like Frigate Orpheon, Norfair, Delfino Plaza, Halberd. Pokémon Stadium 2 is surprising one of Sonic's best stage, so I'll ban that.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Your right about Pokemon Stadium 2 being one of his good stages since he can use nearly all the fields as his advantage. No talk about Brinstar or Halberd? ☆

 

[Delta Z]

Random thought. Wouldn't it make sense if under each stage's rating we put what characters to CP and ban the stage against?

 

[A1lion835]

Random thought. Wouldn't it make sense if under each stage's rating we put what characters to CP and ban the stage against?

That would.

And for the cp against Sonic, I'd say brinstar and go YI(B) on the neutral. If he stage strikes YI, go to...smashville, the moving platform might mess up his spindash->jumps, maybe battlefield too. I'd say RC or YI if he bans brinstar.

 

[tekkie]

I wouldn't mind Battlefield. I guess it depends on how comfortable you are on platforms.

 

[Lord Viper]

Random thought. Wouldn't it make sense if under each stage's rating we put what characters to CP and ban the stage against?

☆ Nice idea, I don't know why I didn't think of doing that before. I'll try to post the stage order by giving star ratings soon. I don't do that know because it's getting late and I don't want to give the incorrect info. ☆

 

[Lovely]

☆ No talk about Brinstar or Halberd? ☆

Brinstar is a good stage to take Sonic, but Halberd is a terrible stage to take him though, on Meta Knight's ship, he can abuse that part of the stage to the point it's not Kirby's good stage.

And for the cp against Sonic, I'd say brinstar and go YI(B) on the neutral. If he stage strikes YI, go to...smashville, the moving platform might mess up his spindash->jumps, maybe battlefield too. I'd say RC or YI if he bans brinstar.

Yoshi's Island is a good neutral for Kirby vs Sonic, though it's hard to gimp him here, he doesn't last on this stage when he's hit with a Smash attack. Rainbow Cruise I have no idea.

I wouldn't mind Battlefield. I guess it depends on how comfortable you are on platforms.

If your good with Up Throw on the platforms on Battlefield, it's a good counter pick for Sonic, IMO.

 

[fromundaman]

Don't take him to Halberd. Brinstar could go either way, since you'll both be killing each other MUCH earlier.

 

[Sameyu]

Seconding Pictochat. Sonic seems to have the advantage because of the flat area but it also depends on the drawing hazards.

 

[Lovely]

I don't know about Pictochat being a good stage for Sonic. The hazards get in the way most of the time, and it only takes at least 9-10 seconds for the stage to change. But I'll admit that it's hard to gimp him here.

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I'll give this topic going until Wednesday. This topic isn't getting enough attention. =/ ☆

 

[Lovely]

Maybe it's a bad week that might get better. I don't know, maybe.

So far, Rainbow Cruise, Jungle Japes, Norfair, and Pokemon Stadium is the best stage to take him to, IMO.

 

[Ladybug]

PS1 or 2?

There's only one Sonic and Dallas and I don't believe I've ever played him before and I rarely even see him around. That's why I haven't jumped on this talk. Sorry Viper.

 

[Lovely]

Pokemon Stadium 1 >>>> Pokemon Stadium 2. Sonic can take control all over the stage and the sky field he can stall for time, which is really frustrating to fight him there.

 

[RoflWafflez]

Lol seems like Japes is a good CP to just about any opponent! Anyway the floor there is relatively short in length, making Sonic's rolling ball combos pretty hard to do effectively, and the water is hell for him.

I vote for Japes.

 

[Kinzer]

Hi there, I just happened to notice this thread.

You really should link this thread with your MU discussion if you're going to go character specific, I am sure some people don't want to go out of their way to try and get here themselves. :/

Can somebody present to me with some suggestions for Sonic and maybe I can tell you why they would/n't be a good choice and/or refer you to some other/better CPs?

I feel like contributing here since I missed out on all the fun in the other MU thread. Again I suggest you use this thread to discuss specific character CPs if you're going to be doing that now.

 

[fromundaman]

Maybe it's a bad week that might get better. I don't know, maybe.

So far, Rainbow Cruise, Jungle Japes, Norfair, and Pokemon Stadium is the best stage to take him to, IMO.

Rainbow isn't that great an idea, since Sonic really doesn't seem to have a hard time there at all. In fact, I'd say he's one of the better characters on that stage.


Kinzer, my thoughts for CPs against Sonic would be Norfair, Japes, or PS1, maybe Pictochat.
Are those good/bad ideas?
I'd probably ban Halberd.

 

[Lovely]

I'll take your offer. :D

Is the stage list to counter pick would be Frigate Orpheon, Jungle Japes, Norfair, Delfino Plaza and Pokemon Stadium 1. Should we stage strike Final Destination, and Smashville. And should we banned Halberd, Pokémon Stadium 2, and Pictochat.

That's from me so far.

Rainbow isn't that great an idea, since Sonic really doesn't seem to have a hard time there at all. In fact, I'd say he's one of the better characters on that stage.

Really? Well, he does have nice enough recovery to survive there, but not ban worthy when vs Kirby IMO.

 

[Kinzer]

Hmm... Pictochat concerns me the most.

Are you aware of iSDR? If not check this video out. It's not that going to this stage (or Yoshi's Island, since it also happens to be very common there) is an auto-loss, but when you're going up against a high-level Sonic who knows just about everything in his arsenal, you will not only have to worry about the hazards (assuming this is Pictochat we're talking about), but that you will not be able to damage Sonic... only clank with this approach.

It's not so bad though, Kirby has some pretty fast and buff moves, just understand that if Sonic approaches you with this that when your attacks connect you will be put into a neutral position, so be on your toes.

Japes can go either way, I personally love this stage, and I used to tell people how this was the most ******** and worst Sonic stage ever. Kirby probably already made good work on kills that go to the sides, but understand Sonic will have just as an easy time killing you this way and that the stage build is hardly if at all detrimental to his main game.

PS1 seems to be a nice neutral stage, the blastzones are far meaning it will take a while for Sonic to kill you... yeah I don't see why not. You could even CP here if need be.

Norfair seems to be another good stage... I won't say much though because I don't fight on it too much... but whatever.

I don't understand why you would want to Halberd though, it's not like you're fighting Snake here who kills off-the-top. Being able to come from the under side and shark is also a plus for you (and Sonic). I don't know what ban to suggest though, as Sonic has many stages to fall back on too, it mostly seems personal preference to me with the exception of a few character (but this isn't concerning me and my MUs against other characters not named Kirby, is it?) It's weird too, since it also appears to be personal preference of the Kirby of where to go for counterpicks... but I suppose we're trying to single out the better choices huh?

Got anymore stages to consider?

Edit: I'll just work with this post, give me some time please.

Frigate Orpheon is another "it can go either way stage"... however I would give the slight edge to Sonic. The lack of a ledge on the right side is quite the nuisance when you want to get back without little or no interference. Now you probably are thinking that Sonic will have the same problem to but understand that Sonic is the 6th fastest character in the air and he will have little problem getting back to the stage, Kirby on the other hand as you all probably know is very slow and vulnerable to counterattack, Sonic still has many things to fall back on if it comes down to it.

Delfino Plaza is alright, as I said before Kirby can shark when the stage takes off, and the stages that you land on are okay to fight on... I guess...

If I were you I would strike Yoshi's Island (if it is a neutral, at least here in Las Vegas it is), never underestimate your opponents abilities/knowledge, it's probably Sonic's better/best neutral stage. If Camalange were here, he'd probably tell you that you should strike BF, though to give you an example of why, Sonic has a nice platforming game (Take that, Mario!) and they act as "barriers" for him to work with. You're best bet is probably FD/SV since it is wide open space that is mostly one dimensional.

Go ahead and ban Pkmn Stad II if it's legal, it's also a legal counterpick here in Vegas... so if you want to take my word for it, the conveyor belts are probably very annoying for you to deal with, the wind stage allows Sonic to stall and take control of the stage... but then again you have Stone like we have Dair right? Well at least we have a Spring Jump to stall The Ice stage leaves for some crazy stuff to ensue, probably makes it awkward to space attacks here. I don't think I need to comment on the last ground transformation. If it isn't a legal CP... then by all means I suggest you ban whatever you feel least comfortable with/your opponent excels in. I honestly can't tell you where not to go that outright warrants a "ban this or lose the match."

I hope this helped.

 

[fromundaman]

Really? Well, he does have nice enough recovery to survive there, but not ban worthy when vs Kirby IMO.

Yeah, definitely not something we should ban, but maybe not where we should be CPing either.




Also, Kinzer, I didn't know the iSDR gave invul. I learned something new. (Does that allow you to go through Falco lasers btw?)

For PS1, Kirby has a LOT of exploits on that stage, which is why I'd consider it.

I dunno... On Halberd Sonic can Uair through the stage to start combos, the somewhat low ceiling can be bad for the Uair chases, as well as for Uthrow kills (which I've heard is sort of a backup kill move for you guys when fresh, although TBH I'm not entirely sure why it would be fresh...), and the canon/claw/laser can help you guys get those KOs, especially the claw.
I mean, it's not a horrible stage for us obviously, I just thought it was one of your better stages.

 

[Kinzer]

It goes trough MK's sword, and that has "lazer" priority. So yes it goes through Flaco's LAZAHS FWABOOM!!!! ^_^

*Ahem*... Also if you're having problems trying to get back then, then don't come from above the platform, but the side.

I also honestly never use U-Throw until later %ages.

...I am probably depriving myself of some good damage racking, but I always like to keep it fresh as a back up, you'll be seeing me using any of the other throws (D-Throw even moreso) very often. Though if you're fighting somebody like speed of the MD/VA, you'll probably have a wonderful time trying to get back on the stage... lol... anyway I don't think it's too hard to get around land camping.

Also I never bothered to test (or find out) if iSDR goes through things like Wario's Bite or Kirby's swallow... I do recall going right through Wario's bite though, so... meh, I'm too lazy to find out, if you're really curious it's not hard to test.

...So if Pkmn Stad I is banned (it can happen I guess), what would you fall back on?

 

[A1lion835]

...So if Pkmn Stad I is banned (it can happen I guess), what would you fall back on?

If you guys banned PS1, we'd probably go back to 1 of our staple CP's: Rainbow Cruise, Jungle Japes or Brinstar. Since you apparently do well on JJ, Rainbow Cruise or Brinstar would be our next option, but I'll detail Brinstar in this post.

Brinstar we generally fall back on because the stage glitches weirdly to our advantage and few people know about the glitches/tricks that can be exploited by all. For instance, if you (sonic) usmash a tentacle, your usmash will last a really long time, easily allowing us to punish. You can refresh moves on the tentacles. The bridge allows hitboxes like our fsmash to stay out forever (including stone if we fall on the right spot). There's a spot between the bridge and the right tentacle where we can go through the stage and cancel the upswing of our upb and just go into the landing part for a surprise. We can also do the earthquake glitch on the right tentacle platform when the tentacle is broken. You would probably be unaware of most of that, giving us a bunch of exploits. Most people have this weird inclination to jump into our earthquake glitch(srsly, it happens WAY more often than you'd expect). The close boundary lines allow us to get ridiculously low % kills with hammer (both aerial and grounded) and fsmash.

Basically, Brinstar is a good stage for us, and if our opponent's inexperienced with it, it's godly.