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He's slow until limit break, and good weight for combo, also without Limit break his Recovery is ok at best.
I mostly agree though a lot of this will be based on their frame data since if it's even average then it changes a lot but I'm going to set that aside for right now. I think the cloud matchup is pretty good since the the projectile will help us with the neutral and his blade range (though I still think it's way smaller than it looks). The Corrin matchup will definitely be a struggle because of his/her range but I'm still wondering about the hat. Will we get just the little beam or the crazy mouth thing too? For Bayonetta I don't even know what to think. She looks like she already has predefined combos but most combos don't really work on us to begin with so hopefully we don't have to worry about that. The only thing about Bayonetta that's a little worrying is the knockback on a lot of her moves in the videos looked incredibly minimal. We don't weigh a lot so we already can't afford to take a lot of damage which worries me about our neutral against her since she has a projectile and combos that seem like they might affect us a lot too. I don't want to lose the anti-combo weight perk we have going for us
True though I'm still worried about the frame data. I'll be honest, it doesn't look as useful in Kirby's hands (butt) since the endlag looks bad.
and M-U's
Matchup Spread: Customs off(Uncommon thought, but ugh this matchup)
Eh. I have my own opinions regarding Kirby's match up spread, though I think we should wait a bit, get some experience, and watch how high level Kirby players perform with the buffs before we start drawing up new ratios. Also I don't think this is the best place for that, but at the same time, we don't really HAVE much of a place for that since the old matchup thread is dead and the new still only has threads forSorry if this is a bad place but
35:65:
40:60:
45:55:
50:50:
55:45:
60:40:
???:
Notes:
- Mewtwo I feel was 60:40, but I'm not sure if it's still that or if it's 55:45 due to his buffs. Havn't played a Mewtwo yet this patch. I'm not sure how Mewtwo's buffs help him aganist Kirby, but going by how Kirby easily grabs him (Or at least used to, don't even HAVE Mewtwo so I'm not sure if that changed), the up throw buff really helps.
- Havn't played any Bowsers or Lucas's since the patch either, so they could be wrong too.
- Jigglypuff is kinda the opposite thing as Mewtwo, she's been ??? since the previus patch too. It's hard to too if she's even or 55:45. And this patch doesn't help, since it's hard to grab Jigglypuff because 1.Jigglypuff is usually in the air. 2.Pound is good for destroying shields. Other knockback buffs help though, espicially back air, so there's that.
- Pac-Man could go either way (45:55 or 55:45) so I put him as even.
- Samus feels more like 55:45, but only because I get scared as soon as the Samus I'm facing fully charges her charge shot
- If you doubt Olimar being 55:45, try watching Kirby vs. Olimar when Kirby has the copy ability.
- Never played aganist the Miis, guess is they're 55:45
- Mr. Game & Watch is overrated
- Luigi mainly had down throw combos, up special, and down special on Kirby. Now he only has two due to the nerfs. And Kirby has advantages aganist Luigi back. So it can't be bad for Kirby
- Mario I feel is 40:60 because of his up special and up air easily killing Kirby, and his smashes also killing him easily. Basicially because Mario easily KOs Kirby. And smashes being hard to use due to cape. Which makes it hard for Kirby to get the kill.
- The Kirby matchup was a really hard choice to make, it's such a hard matchup to rate, but finally, I decided 50:50 was best
and . And it's thus I have been meaning to ask,
SapphSabre777
, when will new matchup threads be made? I think it's been several months since the last one was made, and now that Kirby has gotten some notable buffs, I think it would be appropriate to continue discussion. I mean of course, with the game still developing and patches still inbound, we can't draw conclusive ratios yet, but matchup discussion in general will help those who need the info. Are you too busy? If so perhaps someone else could take over? I personally wouldn't mind, especially now that I'm out for Winter Break. Though perhaps someone like Reserved or t1mmy is more qualified?
Yeah, I was personally too busy with the whole college thing, so it overwhelmed me when I did this, nor did I have the drive in order to continue this.Eh. I have my own opinions regarding Kirby's match up spread, though I think we should wait a bit, get some experience, and watch how high level Kirby players perform with the buffs before we start drawing up new ratios. Also I don't think this is the best place for that, but at the same time, we don't really HAVE much of a place for that since the old matchup thread is dead and the new still only has threads for
Aunt Jemima
, if you could, please transfer these rights of making discussions to someone else that can do it in a more timely matter.
Yeah, it's pretty tough. Cloud can kill us very early on, and his up air/down air stuff our aerial approaches incredibly well; Uair in particular is incredibly annoying to deal with given our crappy air/fall speed... If the Cloud is good enough I daresay we'd never hit the ground. I'm sure there's something we could do about him, though. PP Utilts seem to work pretty well for punishing his aerials if he lands with them but otherwise I'm not sure what the best way to go about it is. Also, his neutral B is surprisingly unhelpful in the matchup, given how much end lag it has. Seriously not worth trying to get it unless you want the swaggin' Cloud hair.PonderBot said:
with a sword: posseses many powerful moves with zero cooldown, supreme mobility, and "KO Punch" type mechanic, all at the price of nonexistent recovery. I've actually played against quite a few Clouds of various skill level. It is tough but so far I've only lost one game to Clouds as Kirby. I've actually struggled more with my secondaries like Mario. I plan to put my matches in the video thread so I can get your opinions on whether the matchup is being played optimally or not.
Aunt Jemima
, we need a thread on and quick. lol
Have fun reading.
I know you guys are on a different subject, but I would like your input on something. As I can tell from some of your comments that you guys know Kirby pretty well. So I am going to share with you a small portion of combos that I have labbed. This is for midweights ONLY.
Guaranteed Combos:
Double Utilts, up-smash: (17-26%)
Utilt, up-smash: (16-50%)
Utilt, (shorthop) inhale: (20-60%)
ANY percent: Dair, inhale (PS: I don't know how you could but the only way for this combo not to work if you racked your opponent up all the way to 999%)
Dair, Utilt, bair: (0-23%)
Dair, Utilt, fair: (0-25%) NOTE: your opponent has to fly in front of you when you Utilt (PS: you can combo just starting with Utilt as well)
Dair, Fthrow, Fair: (0-26%)
Utilt, regular jump, inhale: (50-73%)
Utilit, Uair: (69-97%)
Dair, jab: (0-102%)
2 Utilt: (0-29%)
Utilt, Nair: (15-47%)
Utilt, Bair: (7-36%)
Fthrow, fair: (39-81%) (This also means jumping at higher percent to catch your opponent)
Fthrow, Jump, Uair: (63-72%)
Utilt, Uair: (45-65%)
A couple things to keep in mind about these combos:
You are using the FULL dair. Your damage varies when you only catch a little of the dair. Also another thing dtilt reset varies. It could happen on the first try or the second, it just depends. This is all with out rage.
True combos (but unnecessary):
These combos are true, but not recommended to use so take it with a grain of salt.
Utilt, (analog downwards) ftilt: (0-4%)
Utilt, (analog mid-straight) ftilt: (5-7%)
Utilt, (analog facing top) ftilt: (7-19%)
Kill set-ups:
Dair, Upsmash: (93% and above)
Dair, Downsmash: (114% and above)
NOTE: NOT TRUE COMBOS (PS: could catch your opponent off guard though if they aren't smart.
I hope this is useful and I will be posting specific combos with specific characters as well as testing lightweights and heavy weights. One other thing is that I will be posting percent where Kirby can kill opponents, that includes throws. Thank you.
Pls upload all your lab footage. :^)
?
Press the "Reply" button.Anything will help. Thanks for the input. Also how do you quote
Luigi is more problematic than that. He makes it hard to do anything, and we can't combo him nearly as well as he can still combo us.
Not enough experience yet from my end, and the consensus from many of the top Kirby players is so scattered that it is difficult to accurately pinpoint where the MU goes. Cloud is still new, is still developing, and a lot of players (not just Kirby players) are trying to learn the matchup. It's going to take a while to get a solid viewpoint of the MU, so I'd say simply practice and learn yourself. Doesn't come as much help, really, but he's only been out for two weeks and barely anyone has any worthwhile experience.
I definitely agree with you there. The one other reason that comes to mind is that he has so much wind knockback that we can't shield grab him and that interrupts most of our combos.
I have a friend that plays Cloud, and I have to say, the MU is not that HARD. The support for this claim is that if you inhale cloud you get a projectile. His recovery (no offense to Cloud players) is WORSE than
. Yea that guy. So just play it safe, if cloud approaches just inhale to get his projectile and then work out the match from there depending on the person your playing. That works to.
That's cool that the MU is not too hard for you, but not all the rest of the Kirbys play solely against your friend so that might be why there's a difference of opinion.I have a friend that plays Cloud, and I have to say, the MU is not that HARD.
His recovery (no offense to Cloud players) is WORSE than
Damage. It seems to be a percentage chance on every hit, with a stronger hit being more likely to knock it out. It doesn't seem to proc that often (you're more likely to die before that).
Oh? I heard it procced more often in Brawl.
