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Alright, so it does jab lock, but the timing seems to be incredibly strict. If you hit with the Grounding Stone just a little too late they will not be jab locked. You also need to immediately pop out of the stone and fast fall down into a D-Tilt which sometimes need to be turned around as well. By the way, it should only be D-Tilt x2 instead of x3 right? As the Grounding Stone itself also counts as a jab lock.
You're right, it should only be x2. I guess I'm so used to saying x3 that I got it wrong. =P
Yeah, the high startup on Grounding Stone is what makes it a bit difficult. It feels like it doesn't work if they are too close to the ground either as that will make them hit the ground earlier while you are still stuck in your startup animation. If they are too far from the ground they can DI away from you to avoid the Grounding Stone. I guess this is just a thing that takes a bit of practice. I'm pretty hyped to try out F-Throw -> FF U-Air -> PP U-Tilt -> Footstool -> Grounding Stone -> D-Tilt -> D-Tilt -> Hammer Bash. Feels like that could be a very heavy combo (66% or even more if you throw in some more U-Tilts/Pummels) from just a Grab.
Asdioh
you know me so well. I just keep looking for hope that Kirby's specials can be useful outside of gimmicks. I was also wondering if you stay in the air long enough that dair will finish before you land? If you do stay in the air for a tiny bit and they are holding shield maybe you could use stone to break it.
and when played correctly. Not easy wins in some cases, but definitely much better than Megaman and a lot of other character in the cast by comparison. I don't know Megaman's matchup against well but I'd imagine him being tough thanks to packing solid projectiles of his own a nice close quarters game to go with it. However, Kirby does well against him too has he can float over the gyro, duck lasers, juggles R.O.B, is hard for R.O.B to hit and grab, isn't too hard to gimp, and can take R.O.B's lasers and use them against him. I am not sure if he's really a problem for Megaman, but Kirby can do well against too. While we have to respect his frame data, abusrd power, and ground game, we don't have to stay on the ground. We have 6 jumps which makes it easy for Kirby to bait stuff out and punish. We also duck a lot his moves which makes getting D-Tilts easy. Final Cutter can also through him off with good timing. Plus recovering against him is practically free unless you used up all your jumps and as for our ability to gimp him, well, I don't think I need to say much about that. lol with a passion in this game before making him a secondary, I can say that Kirby probably wins that matchup. It's lot like Sheik vs ZSS. A lot of the same advantages against Fox apply, only moreso here. On top of ducking lasers and being able to juggle him, we actually run faster that Falco and his recovery moves are easier to intercept. We can also crouch his grab at times and duck his N-Air. The main things you got watch out for though are his D-Air, D-Tilt, F-Air, and F-Smash. D-Tilt is a big one as it means you don't want to just carelessly run in on him as it's fast and kills. Short hop aerials seem pretty effective though. He also jumps higher so he'll be able to purse you in the better if he knocks you into the air. But it also means that he's easier to punish with Down B if you're both to high off the ground. In any case, he's definitely not a big issue for Kirby. and , I'd argue Mario is even and Doctor Mario, we beat. Their main advantage is their frame data, Neutral B, and FLUDD/Cape which can gimp Final Cuttter. However, you should never recover high against them in general really. In Mario's case, we have the edge of having better recovery, multiple jumps to bait out moves and punish, and in general he's not the most unpredictable fighter. In the case of both, we can take their neutral B and use them to great effect thanks to our multiple jumps. This especially makes gimping them even easier. From expericence, I'd say Mario : Kirby is even and Doctor Mario we beat since he's actually slower than us, was worse recovery, and no FLUDD., I don't know. While, she probably does beat Kirby, but it may be a lot more close than we realize. Luma's knockback and walling is dumb, but Kirby's crouch can actually quite effective in avoiding her grab and Luma. Our aerials, used right can beat out Luma, and if we take her ability, we can bean her and Luma as she lands. We can also exploit her recovery ruthlessly. Dabuz and Mike Kirby actually had a set back at Smash Attack 5, and Mike Kirby didn't do that bad considering it's well, DABUZ, and Rosalina benefits from customs pretty well too which makes her walling game even more potent. He actually opted to go Olimar following the first match.In the following Smash Attack, he actually won against Snakee as well. And this is all before the 1.1.0 buffs that really improved Kirby's combo game and we all saw how well Triple R wrecked Shydude yesterday right? While Rosalina is something to consider, I don't think she's the top tier Kirby has the most struggle against. I can see the matchup becoming closer or possibly favorable depending on future patches.,,, and .: Does pretty well against Yoshi thanks to speed, weight, F-Air, bananna, and kill setups. This especially shows in a set between Angel Cortez and Raptor:: Seems to do well against Yoshi and can go toe to toe with Rosalina thanks to his hard hitting moves and speed. Dabuz actually opted to use Olimar against Fatality instead of Rosalina.: I don't think the Pits are too big of a problem, but she beats them along with Yoshi and Rosalina. She can be hard to use though.: While not as good as before thanks to the nerfs, I still think he beats Pikachu as he's too floaty to combo, hits harder, has a N-Air to break combos and intercept Quick Attack, and good frame data to match Pikachu. Plus Pikachu's light so Back Throw can kill after some good damage.
Twitch was saying Kirby was top tier. And people on Twitch NEVER say anyone except for Rosalina is top tier if she's in a match (Unless she's fighting ZeRo)
Yeah that was something. I personally think they were overreacting a bit, but it does go to show how underrated Kirby is. Another interesting thing is that they felt that Kirby will actually get better with the weaker shields. We might have that with salt as well, but I also think this shield nerf might not hurt Kirby as much as we think. I can only see a few of our matchups becoming notably harder due to it and I personally never really relied on run>shield that much to begin with. It just made nice approach at times and was a way for me to get a hold of my opponents style at the beginning of the match. I personally preferred aggressive play and our OoS really wasn't very good in the first place aside from shield grab as N-Air, Final Cutter, our Smashes, and F-Air are too slow and B-Air only worked from behind. Plus, the shield nerf seems to have made powershielding projectiles even easier as you know get less stun if you're off by a moment and generally Kirby is better off shielding on reaction and closing in. And while run>shield isn't as good, it's not like shield grab no longer works. Most moves are still pretty unsafe on shield. Also while the game being more mobile might seem like a huge problem, in practice, I don't think we're that hurt by it. We can actually force most of the game's speedy characters to approach and Kirby tends to do better if his opponent gets in his face anyway. And while we're slow, we aren't THAT slow. And we have multiple jumps so ground approach isn't our only option.
matchup now becoming doable.. We could end up benefiting a lot in the long run with the right buffs to our frame data. (And fix Final Cutter's range. PLEASE.) They'll definitely need to do something about that Diddy glitch. lol
No dont listen to twitch chat, they'll say any character is top tier if they destroy a top 10 character, not taking into consideration the large skill gap between players. Same thing happens in Melee when M2K destroy marthss, falcons, spacies, etc with Pichu. Dont give your hopes up after that match, Kirby's still only pushing top 35 before the patch.
Don't get the wrong idea. I am not saying that Kirby is the BEST character to use against the ones that you mentioned (I still think Mario is even and Falco we beat but not too handily), but just stating that if you HAD to use Kirby for whatever reason, a lot of the matchups are doable. Not optimal but doable. I agreed that only using those two might not be such a good idea which is why I gave some other suggestions. I feel that unless you're maining something like
,, or , you'll probably need 3-5 characters to cover all bad matchups. This was just to give some perspective.
I know that. They say that for everyone. I was just saying that they were when they always say Rosa is.
welp... RIP me
I'm having some trouble with it too because I can't do the extended dash dance/foxtrot cancel for a 2nd time, only can turn around once. You have to time it quite late, just foxtrot and find out when it ends (when he stops dashing). Then when you got that timing in your mind try doing another foxtrot and immediately foxtrot in the opposite direction. Usually I just do some foxtrots so I got the timing and then start foxtrot cancelling/extended dash dancing.
Yep exactly that. Its just the right-left dashdance needs to be almost the quickest it can possibly be. Once you get it down its actually quite simple. Not trying to brag but I can do it so consistently with Kirby its actually a bad habit of mine.
Just want to point out that Kirby can definitely do it faster than 160 BPM, although it's obviously harder. I've managed to do it in 200 BPM, but not tried it in a real match. One problem with doing it so fast is that you have to let go of the stick almost immediately after you dash which is inconsistent at least for me to do. You also kinda have to be careful not to perfect pivot instead of dashdance when you're doing it really fast.
YO 200 BPM? I need to test this.
Ya I didn't really manage to maintain an extended dash dance because I haven't practiced it enough, but the foxtrotting worked well. You just have to reset the control stick to neutral earlier to make the dashing animation shorter or something. I'm guessing it makes the dash itself slightly shorter though, but that shouldn't matter too much right?
I'm pretty sure all the characters actually can footstool Kirby first.
Probably, I do get footstooled in return for my attempts, but it's good to try on people who just spam up b in panic
