Kirby's Toy Box - Kirby Moveset/AT/Competitive Discussion

[Mazdamaxsti]

Wait, has the Kirby boards talked about the 0 to death RED showed off? Just requires a missed tech.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

0-death? Please show us.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

0-death? Please show us.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2AtVfbPXwNc
B-throw, falling u-air, u-tilt, b-air, no tech, d-tilt x3, f-smash. Looks like it could have been DI'd so it wouldn't kill though.

I am arriving home from camp in a couple hours and I'm definitely testing different setups for this when I get home.

 

[Phan7om]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2AtVfbPXwNc
B-throw, falling u-air, u-tilt, b-air, no tech, d-tilt x3, f-smash. Looks like it could have been DI'd so it wouldn't kill though.

I am arriving home from camp in a couple hours and I'm definitely testing different setups for this when I get home.

Oh yes, thats been known. The combo works on any characters that you can hit B-throw > Uair with. (which is very underrated, this should be used way more. I see Kirbies always try to Fthrow Fair EVERY character lol.) Its in the guide timmy made under tactics and strategies. Its not really a 0-death, but after the 3rd dtilt reset you can follow up with whatever you want to extend the combo such as Utilt > Dair, Rev Uair > stuff, Inhale, etc.

And also for the Bair to knock over into tumble the characters must reach a certain %. MK is one of the lighter characters so Bair could knock him over. I made a video about the "jab" (mainly dtilt) lock setups. Someone like DK needs to be at a higher %. The characters they all true combo into are all in timmy's guide.

 

[Asdioh]

I believe DI screws up the combo, the Uptilt->Bair is extremely unlike (you'll probably be hit by a fast aerial or they'll jump away, or just be in the wrong spot) and with DI that Fsmash wouldn't have come close to KOing... and nobody's going to miss a tech that slow :x
but yeah

 

[SapphSabre777]

Thanks to these buffs, Kirby is now looking even meaner than ever before. I might as well just post my analyses on each change.

• F-Throw down to 5%, end frame is 3 frames earlier.

This might just be one of the biggest changes to a character in this patch. This is a VERY significant buff for Kirby thanks to what he can do with F-Throw. Kirby can FF U-Air into U-Tilt with a good bunch of characters (including Fox, Mario, and Sheik), allowing for some ~30% combos off of a throw, and that's not all the combos that can be done with F-Throw. It also allows Kirby to now have kill confirms with copy abilities, such as Donkey Kong, Samus, Villager, and even Meta Knight. Overall, Kirby mains NEED to use F-Throw more and explore with it. It is extremely rewarding for a combo throw.

• Inhale starts up 4 frames faster and ends 5 frames faster

The changes made to Inhale are really sweet, allowing it to be much more applicable in frame-traps and mix-ups, thanks to its speed. It is very fast, crazy fast, compared to back a while ago. Sure, Jumping Inhale will likely still be used in customs, but in non-customs, Inhale is at least not trash anymore thanks to the changes. I can say it is now a pretty nice move.

• Jab2 links with Jab3 (rapid hits) much earlier, allows it to register as a combo

Personally, I like this change a lot. I hated how Luigi, Mario, Yoshi, and such could punish Kirby with N-Air when he did jab. Not anymore, because Kirby's jab now functions as a combo, and no opportunity for a random N-Air unless the opponent SDIs and gets a miracle break from the rapid hits. This also means jab is actually a decent combo finisher, what with around 15+% or so damage being added at the end. Again, another welcome change and an underlooked buff.

• Inhaled abilities are all set to the 1.1.0 version

I ended up finding this out myself this weekend, and it is pretty interesting. We lose pre-patch stuff, like pre-patch Needles, but we get new 1.1.0 stuff. Sadly this means we get a nerfed Luigi Fireball, but more buffs came to Neutral Bs than nerfs, so I definitely want to say it is a buff overall. Stuff like 10 frames off of copied Elthunder/Arcthunder, 5 frames off of Water Shuriken startup, and less lag on Fox Blasters and such are all welcome changes for Kirby.

Overall, I think Kirby is up there with Wii Fit Trainer in terms of improvement. Not necessarily AS improved as Wii Fit, but definitely improved heavily to where people have to watch out for the character now. What do you guys think? Do you agree with the above synopses?

 

[Wintermelon43]

Is there a thread that shows all of Kirby's available combos, so I can easily remember all of them?

 

[C.O.M.M]

I'm having trouble doing a reverse up-tilt, I can't seem to get the inputs right or something... Any suggestions to help me improve?

 

[Dessa]

I'm having trouble doing a reverse up-tilt, I can't seem to get the inputs right or something... Any suggestions to help me improve?

I find it easier to do with the attack button, rather than the cstick. Hold straight up and start doing regular uptilts, then while holding up, slide the stick off center a bit.

I'll practice this way for a while, just reversing utilts in big strings a bunch until it's consistent.

Then I do things like walk -> utilt or reverse utilt. I just slide the stick straight up ane move it that little hair over, then press a. Practice it landing, or after performing an aerial.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Oh yes, thats been known. The combo works on any characters that you can hit B-throw > Uair with. (which is very underrated, this should be used way more. I see Kirbies always try to Fthrow Fair EVERY character lol.) Its in the guide timmy made under tactics and strategies. Its not really a 0-death, but after the 3rd dtilt reset you can follow up with whatever you want to extend the combo such as Utilt > Dair, Rev Uair > stuff, Inhale, etc.

And also for the Bair to knock over into tumble the characters must reach a certain %. MK is one of the lighter characters so Bair could knock him over. I made a video about the "jab" (mainly dtilt) lock setups. Someone like DK needs to be at a higher %. The characters they all true combo into are all in timmy's guide.

Video please? I would like to start implementing jab locks if I could.

 

[Phan7om]

Video please? I would like to start implementing jab locks if I could.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be7lIvxUTFI

Disregard all the other combo stuff (like at the beginning and end) they dont work, and even knowing they didnt I still put them on the video for some reason lol.

 

[C.O.M.M]

I find it easier to do with the attack button, rather than the cstick. Hold straight up and start doing regular uptilts, then while holding up, slide the stick off center a bit.

I'll practice this way for a while, just reversing utilts in big strings a bunch until it's consistent.

Then I do things like walk -> utilt or reverse utilt. I just slide the stick straight up ane move it that little hair over, then press a. Practice it landing, or after performing an aerial.

Thanks for your help! I'll be diligently practicing this technique until I can do it adequately, it's pretty hard to do off-the-cuff because the input demand is so stringent in terms of how far you need to tilt the controller. ><

I'm open to any other tips or advice in regards to reverse up-tilts.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

https://youtu.be/qeRmgElQBeo

This can only be done against King Dedede and Bowser, but is guaranteed regardless of DI. Works from 0% to 25% with DI Away.

You can footstool DK out of a F-Throw, but he's launched too high and has incredible air speed, so he can DI to avoid Grounding Stone.

It may be possible to D-Air > U-Tilt > D-Air to make the combo do around 14% more, but I haven't tested that yet.

 

[Mazdamaxsti]

@ Aunt Jemima Can you post a video about the 0-90 against sheik?

 

[kirbyfan66]

To go a little bit off the topic of Forward Throw stuff for a second...

I was on For Glory (I know, I know, hear me out) and was trying to experiment a bit - Hammer Flip and Inhale have their uses, the latter especially, but I've always wanted to find more uses for Final Cutter, and spiking is the main one I've been wanting to try out. Well, sure enough, I got a pretty cool one off earlier, and was able to upload it thanks to the match being under 3 minutes. Take a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKpYMtPhZlc#t=1m37s

Final Cutter is an actual option when opponents recover high. Granted this situation likely won't show up much in high level play, but it's possible. Any other sightings of this?

Anyway, continue Forward Throw talk.

 

[Phan7om]

I do that kind of stuff all the time, you have to condition them to recover high by covering a lot of low options (usually with Dair or FC edgecancel spike). It takes precise timing but once you learn it its very viable imho. It works against characters who cant sweetspot their up-b (MK, Kirby, Shulk, etc.) or characters who may recover above the ledge to... well, recover (Luigi's Down-B sometimes players will go above the stage with it, Luigi's Side-B, ZSS down-b, Bouncing Fish, Ryu's Side-B like in video, Fox's/Falco's side-b, etc.). A lot of them take a read and a half to connect them, some of them I would agree that just Dairing would be better, but I could see the Kirby meta advancing that far in a few years. Conditioning them to not recover low and then Up-B spiking them when they dont. I doubt anyone expects it atm, so its like approacing Dair... viable until people start realizing how bad it is lmao.
---
And yeah, FC edgecancel spikes probably should be a thing. It kills characters where you would normally try to stage spike them (risking a more than likely tech) or against characters where I wouldnt want to Dair (Peach's Up-b, Mario's Up-B, etc.) Very easy against Up-Bs that are slow, or linear (Spacies Up-B, Villagers Up-B, Falcon and Ganon's Up-B, etc.) How to set it up is kind of tricky, you have to make them recover so that Final Cutter going up connects with them AND having to be close enough so that you can grab the ledge going downwards. Ill prob make a video on it when I get some clips of it. But I could see Kirbys just wanting to Dair again in these situations, I probably just keep wanting to swag.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Whenever I'm playing in default, against certain characters, I just run off the stage and use Final Cutter towards it. Because the move is disjointed, it catches a lot of recoveries, such as Fox, Marth, Falcon, and Robin.

On the topic of edgeguarding, I've been using Ledge Trump D-Air against opponents once they start mashing airdodge to avoid B-Air. It's had a lot of success so far, but I'm not sure if it's actually good.

At mid percents, near the ledge, F-Throw > Double Jump D-Air > Footstool can work depending on the character. Most characters won't actually die from this because you're starting the D-Air a bit high up, so I use B-Air/Final/Upper Cutter to spike them on their way up.

F-Throw > D-Air > Footstool near the ledge pretty much wrecks everyone, lol. While a lot of characters will be killed by it, we'll need to gather info on character specifics for dealing with one's that don't die. Such as, against Zelda and Sheik, Kirby can DJ D-Air the ledge to cover their teleport.

Speaking of that, have you guys been using the 1 frame vulnerability? If you hang on the ledge, dropping down into DJ D-Air can cover Sheik really well. It's also incredibly efficient against characters who don't have hitboxes, such as Robin and Rosalina. It's really easy to condition Rosalina on recovering above, as D-Air on the ledge will pretty much always kill her if she's trying to ledge snap. If you have the Copy Ability, once she starts recovering above, you can charge it to hit her and potentially kill Luma during the landing lag.

Changing topics once again (...), now that we can combo into Inhale, you can use Copy on Luma to completely destroy it. Luma can't act while Rosalina is in Kirby's mouth, so if you combo into it, he's stuck in his hitstun animation, unable to move for brief period. You can use Copy while facing away from him to send him around a quarter of Final Destination when Luma is at 0%, which is insane for early kills against it. Upper Cutter OoS, B-Air, Luma Shot, and D-Throw > D-Smash/F-Smash can all kill Luma surprisingly easy, too.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I seriously wish that FCs spike was much more consistent, its seriously powerful, but its hard to land because the stupid beam always screws it up, keeping people from getting spiked.
Is there a way to land it consistently, if you could it would definitly help the movemove.

 

[GhettoNinja]

Alright so I pre patch I'd discovered that if you do a F throw right on the ledge so that your opponent hits the air instead of the stage the knockback from the throw is weakened or something like that. Anyway if you do it on the ledge and then immediately do a Up b and maneuver yourself in a very tight manner it will be a true spike combo. On some characters the percent range is high enough that it will kill, on some it just knocks them low. The range of the combo is anywhere from 5% ~ 15% and works on almost all the cast. Most characters fall into either the 20%+ category or 80% area. Some fall in the percents between. Now I'd like to restate this is situational and possibly DI able. But the Training mode counter counts it as true. It all applies post patch but the percents seemed to have shift

 

[SapphSabre777]

Hey guys! I see there's a lot of talk in regards to the F-Throw buff. I've talked to a couple of people, and I am heavily researching on the applications of F-Throw right now (since I can't go online or anything on my Wii U).

I've got to clean up my bit with F-Throw -> FF U-Air -> U-Tilt just a smidge, then look at other possible things, like F-Throw -> F-Air and maybe some undiscovered stuff. It'll be a pretty long while, though, since there's a lot to look at and inputting DI in Training Mode AND doing the combo at the same time suuuuucks.

Once I feel like the info is in a good preliminary state, I'll let the Kirbys know posthaste. Thanks for your patience!

 

[FKA Kobra]

I seriously wish that FCs spike was much more consistent, its seriously powerful, but its hard to land because the stupid beam always screws it up, keeping people from getting spiked.
Is there a way to land it consistently, if you could it would definitly help the movemove.

I dont know if there is a way to do it consistently onstage but if you do it so you grab on the ledge when coming down with the FC then it always spikes the opponent down since the beam can't come out when you use FC offstage or when u grab ledge. Its a good punish if the opponent stays on the ledge to long or you spike them right before they grab the ledge.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Should be noted that F-Throw > U-Air without a fast fall autocancels the U-Air, so you can move right away.

 

[Phan7om]

Ive been theorycrafting about that untechable video and im wondering if we can F-air them into the stage where the first two hits push him towards the wall so that the 3rd hit always stage spikes.

 

[DanGR]

What frame does the super armor on side-B 3 first come out on, and end after releasing? Also, after charging it, what frame does the hitbox come out on? Is there any overlap in hitbox/SA?

 

[Furret24]

I don't know if this has been talked about yet, but F-Throw can combo into Upper Cutter (U-Special 3). I think it may even be a kill combo on certain stages.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Alright, some random notes from recent labbing.

Kirby's Perfect Pivot is godly. Once you start using Perfect Pivot U-Tilt, you feel the true power of Kirby. It isn't hard to pick up, just spend a day learning it! It has tremendous range, and turns Kirby into a punishing monster. The combo potential with it is phenomenal...

Perfect Pivot D-Tilt is a really safe way to potentially set up kills, too. Haven't messed around with Perfect Pivot smashes though!

Sourspot U-Tilt > D-Air is a godly option. Start adding this to your combos, it can rack up major damage. D-Air > Sourspot U-Tilt can be perfect shielded, but if you condition your opponent so they don't shield, you can use the combo again to get even more damage. The percent range is mostly a 30%~40% range from when it starts to when it stops, so you have a lot of room to get it going.

For example, here's a combo on Sheik...

F-Throw > U-Air > PP U-Tilt > Sourspot U-Tilt x5 > U-Air > Sourspot U-Tilt > D-Air...

Now, the opponent is at 61%, while you have a few options.

If they shield, you get a free grab which allows for Pummel/U-Throw damage, ending the combo with a large 71%+ depending on pummels.

If they're always holding shield, you can true combo into U-Tilt, D-Tilt or Jab. If you use the entire Jab combo, you're leaving with around 73%. If you use D-Tilt and they trip, you can F-Smash, Grab, or PP U-Tilt and select an option (ie: U-Air, B-Air, Airdodge Bait, etc...).

If you use U-Tilt, you have a plethora of options available. If you're looking for consistent damage, combo into B-Air or U-Air. However, you can set up a 50/50. Unless they airdodge directly out of hitstun, you can D-Air them to reset the situation and get even more damage. However, if they airdodge, they'll land on the ground and suffer landing lag. Now, you can D-Air to reset the situation, punish the landing with Hammer Flip for a potential kill, or use Stone to get raw damage.

If they stop holding shield and try to escape in other ways, you can Sourspot U-Tilt > D-Air to reset the situation, too!

---

Overall, Kirby has the longest and most versatile turnaround slide. All of his grounded moves gain great distance and slide him except for F-Smash, allowing Kirby to bait and punish, approach with tilts/crouching, and generally gain more respect when dashing. To get the max distance on your attacks, as a visual cue, when the dust particles from the initial turnaround disappear OR when Kirby's feet start moving (Specifically, after the foot facing the screen moves twice) use your attack. For an audio reference, right after the skid sound effect stops, use your attack. It's quite obvious when you get max distance, as you travel relatively fast and cover around 1/4 of Final Destination.

Sliding U-Tilt is an incredible punish option as it starts major combos and is relatively safe if you hit a shield. Sliding D-Tilt is incredibly safe and fast, and is even harder to punish due to Kirby's size. On trip, you have even more options than usual as you're sliding into the opponent. Sliding F-Tilt is mainly a poking tool and covers incredible distance. Sliding Jab is literally amazing as you can just hold the jab while retaining all momentum.

Sliding U-Smash and D-Smash are primarily punish tools to swat away laggier moves such as Zero Suit's grab. Sliding D-Smash does have the bonus of having a hitbox out the entire slide, though. Sliding Crouch is mainly to cover ground while crouching, as you become the shortest character in the game. Can be used to punish projectiles such as Hadouken, or avoid Zero Suit's grab sweetspot, among other things.

There's actually a crouch "tech" that can be used which I recommend everybody practice. Normally, you can use any action you could in idle while crouching without having to sit through the lag caused by "standing up". However, for some odd reason, this isn't the case with Neutral Special, which is very important due to the variety of Copy Abilities. This makes it so you need to sit through the lag before being able to use vital abilities such as Sheik's Needles. Luckily, there's a way to avoid this.

While crouching, if you slide your control stick up gently, you start walking without facing the lag. This is noticeable when you're approaching with crouch walking or doing the "Pancake Dance". If you start the initial walk and return the stick to idle directly after, you can use Neutral Specials without having to deal with the lag. This is very important as it allows you to punish characters like Sheik, Robin and Ryu with the abilities projectiles directly after ducking under theirs.

Along with that, if you speed it up so you get the initial dash instead of a walk, you can perfect pivot out of crouch to extend punishes.

This can also be used to F-Smash punish out of a sliding crouch. Max ranged sliding crouch into stutterstep F-Smash covers half of FD, which is insane.

---

When playing on Battlefield, when you're under platforms, you can get some high-damaging combos with U-Tilt. Once U-Tilt starts knocking the opponent onto the platform (45% on Sheik), they're forced to tech or get punished. Regardless of whether they teched or not, once they're knocked onto a platform, you can full hop D-Air them to land on the platform and extend your punishes. This allows you to get a huge lead against your opponent, so start trying it out! If you land D-Air, you can use your momentum to drag them under the platform as they're stuck in the autolink hitboxes.

Against Ryu, buffered Full Hop Hadouken will knock him off the platform if he doesn't tech, or if he techs in place/to the edge. Kirby doesn't go above the platform when buffered, however, so you can D-Tilt lock and then punish with whatever you want.

---

Kirby's Perfect Pivot essentially means you're using the Popstar Shuffle (Kirby's repeated turnaround animation) for true competitive value. So... Popstar Shuffle confirmed godlike?

OKBYE I LOVE YOU ALL I TYPED THIS ENTIRE THING ON MY PHONE~

 

[MrMFC]

Alright, some random notes from recent labbing.

Kirby's Perfect Pivot is godly. Once you start using Perfect Pivot U-Tilt, you feel the true power of Kirby. It isn't hard to pick up, just spend a day learning it! It has tremendous range, and turns Kirby into a punishing monster. The combo potential with it is phenomenal...

Perfect Pivot D-Tilt is a really safe way to potentially set up kills, too. Haven't messed around with Perfect Pivot smashes though!

Sourspot U-Tilt > D-Air is a godly option. Start adding this to your combos, it can rack up major damage. D-Air > Sourspot U-Tilt can be perfect shielded, but if you condition your opponent so they don't shield, you can use the combo again to get even more damage. The percent range is mostly a 30%~40% range from when it starts to when it stops, so you have a lot of room to get it going.

For example, here's a combo on Sheik...

F-Throw > U-Air > PP U-Tilt > Sourspot U-Tilt x5 > U-Air > Sourspot U-Tilt > D-Air...

Now, the opponent is at 61%, while you have a few options.

If they shield, you get a free grab which allows for Pummel/U-Throw damage, ending the combo with a large 71%+ depending on pummels.

If they're always holding shield, you can true combo into U-Tilt, D-Tilt or Jab. If you use the entire Jab combo, you're leaving with around 73%. If you use D-Tilt and they trip, you can F-Smash, Grab, or PP U-Tilt and select an option (ie: U-Air, B-Air, Airdodge Bait, etc...).

If you use U-Tilt, you have a plethora of options available. If you're looking for consistent damage, combo into B-Air or U-Air. However, you can set up a 50/50. Unless they airdodge directly out of hitstun, you can D-Air them to reset the situation and get even more damage. However, if they airdodge, they'll land on the ground and suffer landing lag. Now, you can D-Air to reset the situation, punish the landing with Hammer Flip for a potential kill, or use Stone to get raw damage.

If they stop holding shield and try to escape in other ways, you can Sourspot U-Tilt > D-Air to reset the situation, too!

---

Overall, Kirby has the longest and most versatile turnaround slide. All of his grounded moves gain great distance and slide him except for F-Smash, allowing Kirby to bait and punish, approach with tilts/crouching, and generally gain more respect when dashing. To get the max distance on your attacks, as a visual cue, when the dust particles from the initial turnaround disappear OR when Kirby's feet start moving (Specifically, after the foot facing the screen moves twice) use your attack. For an audio reference, right after the skid sound effect stops, use your attack. It's quite obvious when you get max distance, as you travel relatively fast and cover around 1/4 of Final Destination.

Sliding U-Tilt is an incredible punish option as it starts major combos and is relatively safe if you hit a shield. Sliding D-Tilt is incredibly safe and fast, and is even harder to punish due to Kirby's size. On trip, you have even more options than usual as you're sliding into the opponent. Sliding F-Tilt is mainly a poking tool and covers incredible distance. Sliding Jab is literally amazing as you can just hold the jab while retaining all momentum.

Sliding U-Smash and D-Smash are primarily punish tools to swat away laggier moves such as Zero Suit's grab. Sliding D-Smash does have the bonus of having a hitbox out the entire slide, though. Sliding Crouch is mainly to cover ground while crouching, as you become the shortest character in the game. Can be used to punish projectiles such as Hadouken, or avoid Zero Suit's grab sweetspot, among other things.

There's actually a crouch "tech" that can be used which I recommend everybody practice. Normally, you can use any action you could in idle while crouching without having to sit through the lag caused by "standing up". However, for some odd reason, this isn't the case with Neutral Special, which is very important due to the variety of Copy Abilities. This makes it so you need to sit through the lag before being able to use vital abilities such as Sheik's Needles. Luckily, there's a way to avoid this.

While crouching, if you slide your control stick up gently, you start walking without facing the lag. This is noticeable when you're approaching with crouch walking or doing the "Pancake Dance". If you start the initial walk and return the stick to idle directly after, you can use Neutral Specials without having to deal with the lag. This is very important as it allows you to punish characters like Sheik, Robin and Ryu with the abilities projectiles directly after ducking under theirs.

Along with that, if you speed it up so you get the initial dash instead of a walk, you can perfect pivot out of crouch to extend punishes.

This can also be used to F-Smash punish out of a sliding crouch. Max ranged sliding crouch into stutterstep F-Smash covers half of FD, which is insane.

---

When playing on Battlefield, when you're under platforms, you can get some high-damaging combos with U-Tilt. Once U-Tilt starts knocking the opponent onto the platform (45% on Sheik), they're forced to tech or get punished. Regardless of whether they teched or not, once they're knocked onto a platform, you can full hop D-Air them to land on the platform and extend your punishes. This allows you to get a huge lead against your opponent, so start trying it out! If you land D-Air, you can use your momentum to drag them under the platform as they're stuck in the autolink hitboxes.

Against Ryu, buffered Full Hop Hadouken will knock him off the platform if he doesn't tech, or if he techs in place/to the edge. Kirby doesn't go above the platform when buffered, however, so you can D-Tilt lock and then punish with whatever you want.

---

Kirby's Perfect Pivot essentially means you're using the Popstar Shuffle (Kirby's repeated turnaround animation) for true competitive value. So... Popstar Shuffle confirmed godlike?

OKBYE I LOVE YOU ALL I TYPED THIS ENTIRE THING ON MY PHONE~

This sounds amazing. Once mastered this will be so good, probably making Kirby High-Tier? Anyways, I really need to improve my tech skills for this lol

 

[Altair357]

Alright, some random notes from recent labbing.

Kirby's Perfect Pivot is godly. Once you start using Perfect Pivot U-Tilt, you feel the true power of Kirby. It isn't hard to pick up, just spend a day learning it! It has tremendous range, and turns Kirby into a punishing monster. The combo potential with it is phenomenal...

Perfect Pivot D-Tilt is a really safe way to potentially set up kills, too. Haven't messed around with Perfect Pivot smashes though!

Sourspot U-Tilt > D-Air is a godly option. Start adding this to your combos, it can rack up major damage. D-Air > Sourspot U-Tilt can be perfect shielded, but if you condition your opponent so they don't shield, you can use the combo again to get even more damage. The percent range is mostly a 30%~40% range from when it starts to when it stops, so you have a lot of room to get it going.

For example, here's a combo on Sheik...

F-Throw > U-Air > PP U-Tilt > Sourspot U-Tilt x5 > U-Air > Sourspot U-Tilt > D-Air...

Now, the opponent is at 61%, while you have a few options.

If they shield, you get a free grab which allows for Pummel/U-Throw damage, ending the combo with a large 71%+ depending on pummels.

If they're always holding shield, you can true combo into U-Tilt, D-Tilt or Jab. If you use the entire Jab combo, you're leaving with around 73%. If you use D-Tilt and they trip, you can F-Smash, Grab, or PP U-Tilt and select an option (ie: U-Air, B-Air, Airdodge Bait, etc...).

If you use U-Tilt, you have a plethora of options available. If you're looking for consistent damage, combo into B-Air or U-Air. However, you can set up a 50/50. Unless they airdodge directly out of hitstun, you can D-Air them to reset the situation and get even more damage. However, if they airdodge, they'll land on the ground and suffer landing lag. Now, you can D-Air to reset the situation, punish the landing with Hammer Flip for a potential kill, or use Stone to get raw damage.

If they stop holding shield and try to escape in other ways, you can Sourspot U-Tilt > D-Air to reset the situation, too!

---

Overall, Kirby has the longest and most versatile turnaround slide. All of his grounded moves gain great distance and slide him except for F-Smash, allowing Kirby to bait and punish, approach with tilts/crouching, and generally gain more respect when dashing. To get the max distance on your attacks, as a visual cue, when the dust particles from the initial turnaround disappear OR when Kirby's feet start moving (Specifically, after the foot facing the screen moves twice) use your attack. For an audio reference, right after the skid sound effect stops, use your attack. It's quite obvious when you get max distance, as you travel relatively fast and cover around 1/4 of Final Destination.

Sliding U-Tilt is an incredible punish option as it starts major combos and is relatively safe if you hit a shield. Sliding D-Tilt is incredibly safe and fast, and is even harder to punish due to Kirby's size. On trip, you have even more options than usual as you're sliding into the opponent. Sliding F-Tilt is mainly a poking tool and covers incredible distance. Sliding Jab is literally amazing as you can just hold the jab while retaining all momentum.

Sliding U-Smash and D-Smash are primarily punish tools to swat away laggier moves such as Zero Suit's grab. Sliding D-Smash does have the bonus of having a hitbox out the entire slide, though. Sliding Crouch is mainly to cover ground while crouching, as you become the shortest character in the game. Can be used to punish projectiles such as Hadouken, or avoid Zero Suit's grab sweetspot, among other things.

There's actually a crouch "tech" that can be used which I recommend everybody practice. Normally, you can use any action you could in idle while crouching without having to sit through the lag caused by "standing up". However, for some odd reason, this isn't the case with Neutral Special, which is very important due to the variety of Copy Abilities. This makes it so you need to sit through the lag before being able to use vital abilities such as Sheik's Needles. Luckily, there's a way to avoid this.

While crouching, if you slide your control stick up gently, you start walking without facing the lag. This is noticeable when you're approaching with crouch walking or doing the "Pancake Dance". If you start the initial walk and return the stick to idle directly after, you can use Neutral Specials without having to deal with the lag. This is very important as it allows you to punish characters like Sheik, Robin and Ryu with the abilities projectiles directly after ducking under theirs.

Along with that, if you speed it up so you get the initial dash instead of a walk, you can perfect pivot out of crouch to extend punishes.

This can also be used to F-Smash punish out of a sliding crouch. Max ranged sliding crouch into stutterstep F-Smash covers half of FD, which is insane.

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When playing on Battlefield, when you're under platforms, you can get some high-damaging combos with U-Tilt. Once U-Tilt starts knocking the opponent onto the platform (45% on Sheik), they're forced to tech or get punished. Regardless of whether they teched or not, once they're knocked onto a platform, you can full hop D-Air them to land on the platform and extend your punishes. This allows you to get a huge lead against your opponent, so start trying it out! If you land D-Air, you can use your momentum to drag them under the platform as they're stuck in the autolink hitboxes.

Against Ryu, buffered Full Hop Hadouken will knock him off the platform if he doesn't tech, or if he techs in place/to the edge. Kirby doesn't go above the platform when buffered, however, so you can D-Tilt lock and then punish with whatever you want.

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Kirby's Perfect Pivot essentially means you're using the Popstar Shuffle (Kirby's repeated turnaround animation) for true competitive value. So... Popstar Shuffle confirmed godlike?

OKBYE I LOVE YOU ALL I TYPED THIS ENTIRE THING ON MY PHONE~

I still don't know exactly what a "turnaround slide" is. Props to you for typing this on your phone, though. That takes next-level endurance.

 

[Wintermelon43]

I still don't know exactly what a "turnaround slide" is. Props to you for typing this on your phone, though. That takes next-level endurance.

Not even Villager's pocket can type that on a phone.

I typed this on a phone..... It took a minute and ten typos

 

[Asdioh]

I still don't know exactly what a "turnaround slide" is. Props to you for typing this on your phone, though. That takes next-level endurance.

https://youtu.be/Jfkip-BwL_w it's been called various things. "U turn" doesn't even make sense in the pokemon comparison, because you're supposed to attack then retreat, but with this tech it's more an advancing attack. I just know this tech needs the word "slide" in it because that's what's happening.

https://youtu.be/kAe92Lsi880 also this shows the crouch -> no standup animation reserved was talking about. Also pivots are great but seriously if you mess up the input, you get a dash attack, and reserved hates dash attack! But yeah turnaround slides are awesome with kirby. You can grab to condition spotdodge, and you can punish spotdodge with jab. Or you can just get hit by your opponent's sword, watch out

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Also, a couple random things I forgot:

Perfect Pivot F-Tilt, D-Tilt, and Jab are all spaced with, quite literally, their max range, so ultra super stupid safe tilts, yay!

If you learn how to Perfect Pivot out of a crouch, you can now move around while crouching and stay incredibly safe with the spaced D-Tilt. So... learn this and your crouch becomes a billion times more useful. Retain low stature while moving around spacing a super safe move that trips? wtf kirby STOP

 

[Nickname87]

https://youtu.be/Jfkip-BwL_w it's been called various things. "U turn" doesn't even make sense in the pokemon comparison, because you're supposed to attack then retreat, but with this tech it's more an advancing attack. I just know this tech needs the word "slide" in it because that's what's happening.

https://youtu.be/kAe92Lsi880 also this shows the crouch -> no standup animation reserved was talking about. Also pivots are great but seriously if you mess up the input, you get a dash attack, and reserved hates dash attack! But yeah turnaround slides are awesome with kirby. You can grab to condition spotdodge, and you can punish spotdodge with jab. Or you can just get hit by your opponent's sword, watch out

Squish cancelling looks as good when you tilt the joystick left and right to make him dance XD except maybe useful : P

 

[Cryz]

Hello!
So uhm @ Aunt Jemima i saw your post in the viability survey and i was wondering if you tell us more about that reverse autocancelling UpAir?
Is it really a better combo starter than Dair?
And maybe i'm asking too much but you could show how you do it in a video?
thanks

 

[Aunt Jemima]

By the way, reverse U-Air is a safer (and subsequently more useful) combo starter than D-Air. D-Air overall has better combo options but it's really unsafe whereas reverse U-Air is really safe.

Reverse U-Air will still be getting comparable damage to D-Air combos however because of the moves that work with it.

 

[Quarium]

By the way, reverse U-Air is a safer (and subsequently more useful) combo starter than D-Air. D-Air overall has better combo options but it's really unsafe whereas reverse U-Air is really safe.

Reverse U-Air will still be getting comparable damage to D-Air combos however because of the moves that work with it.

Cool stuff, They lack of any significant lag does seem to deem it safer. Although I bet abuse of it will most likely end up on you getting shield grabbed after a while. With conditioning this could be an amazing tool...

I already did lotsa falling upairs but never thought of reversing it. Imma try it.

PS: Wish I could practice Perfect Pivoting but I only own the 3ds version to practice. Only use Wii U on friendlies and tourneys

 

[Altair357]

Is reverse up air better than front hit up air because the properties of the move are different in the back, or is it just because hitting with the late frames means the move is closer to autocancelling?

Edit: Well, it looks like the reverse hit has more range, so there's that.

 

[Quarium]

Is reverse up air better than front hit up air because the properties of the move are different in the back, or is it just because hitting with the late frames means the move is closer to autocancelling?

Edit: Well, it looks like the reverse hit has more range, so there's that.

I believe it also has Less knockback/is a sourspot. So it seems better for comboing! I could be wrong though...

BTW not to change the subject but has anyone tried Kirbycide agaisnt certain characters in a tourney setting? It seems to be pretty useful agaisnt characters like Roy as he is recovering for example. If you have stock advantage.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Cool stuff, They lack of any significant lag does seem to deem it safer. Although I bet abuse of it will most likely end up on you getting shield grabbed after a while. With conditioning this could be an amazing tool...

I already did lotsa falling upairs but never thought of reversing it. Imma try it.

PS: Wish I could practice Perfect Pivoting but I only own the 3ds version to practice. Only use Wii U on friendlies and tourneys

It only takes seven frames after the hitbox ends before it starts autocancelling. Hit with the tip while weaving then fast fall, you're pretty much unpunishable. Using Perfect Pivots you can stay unpunishable while being able to combo on hit with U-Tilt. If a character can't grab Kirby out of his crouch, they can't grab him for 15 frames after he lands with it, so you can also bait grabs by mis-spacing the move and punishing them when they think they can shield grab you.

EDIT: Doing any of this on a 3DS is super hard, lol.

Is reverse up air better than front hit up air because the properties of the move are different in the back, or is it just because hitting with the late frames means the move is closer to autocancelling?

The back hit of U-Air is different, yes. It has a different launch trajectory, knockback and you're hitting the late frames which allows you to autocancel it incredibly fast. Also, you're facing backwards so you can combo it into B-Air easily.

 

[Phan7om]

LOL i didnt think people actually watch my videos... especially that one lmao.

 

[Cryz]

Nice!
Awesome video that shows what we can do *.*
Plus that perfect pivot video is cool! i subbed