Kirby's Toy Box - Kirby Moveset/AT/Competitive Discussion

[quickbeam2]

platforms that leave off the top cant kill you

 

[Dessa]

platforms that leave off the top cant kill you

Oh! Good to know then! So there shouldn't be a worry about uthrowing people off of rising platforms then!

 

[Nickname87]

ignore this sorry

 

[AirFighter]

I don't know about those matchups, but that new stage looks very friendly to Kirby's uthrow. Big wide platforms that float off the top of the screen? Kirby could get some really low percentage kills off of that.

And it looks like it'll be tournament-legal from what I've seen so far.

Edit: The downside might be that the platform could carry you up and off while you're in endlag.

Yea I heard. It's Bayonetta's clock tower I believe. They will be switching out Dream land as a starter stage and moving it to counter pick. Doesn't change for me since I usually pick Dream land second.

Clouds Is Waaaay better than Little mac

That's cool that the MU is not too hard for you, but not all the rest of the Kirbys play solely against your friend so that might be why there's a difference of opinion.

If you could tell me how Cloud's recovery is worse than Little Mac's I'd be glad to hear it. They both have exploitable recoveries, but I feel like if Cloud's were worse than Little Mac's then I'd be taking stocks from him left and right.

Ok guys I am not trying to sound cocky or arrogant (forgive me if I did), but Cloud's recovery is only vertical. Find your opportunity to when he uses his Up B special and stone him. He doesn't snap the ledge right away and he floats as well. I have to admit Limit Breaker is an annoying factor and on top of that he is a swordsman, but trust me he doesn't have that many ways to recover. Also the Cloud that I play is really good actually. Places top 8 consistently at our local tournaments with Little Mac and Cloud in Arizona. Not trying to brag, but I know both MU pretty well.

 

[Doomsday]

Idk I place #1 in my local every time I go there and I'm trash at the game. Local scenes usually don't mean much IMO.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

t!MmY how many MUs do you personally think Kirby wins? even if it's only slightly.
(Sure hope it ain't like a couple....)
I feel like he has....a ton of small advantage-small disadvantage MUs(??? ??
Which is not necessarily a bad thing overall right, it's just near evenish MUs and stuff.

but then he has those characters that aren't so even, yet still perfectly capable of handling.
???????????

Then those rather tough MUs that, if your uncomfortable, may warrant a secondary, these aren't all necessarily worst MUs, but they are more or less irritating, or whatever.
??

I mean, a lot of these I question, but this seems somewhat accurate. I'm just using what I know and watch and read.
I think he is very well capable of handling the entire cast, if your on point.

But that's what I think, may not even be remotely accurate, but I would like to hear your opinion.
I like the character, and it's sometimes bugs me that he is still considered bad by some.

I don't personally see him being bad, he just doesn't seem to really have much, if anything, that makes him stand out you know?

 

[t!MmY]

t!MmY how many MUs do you personally think Kirby wins? even if it's only slightly.

Once you know what you're doing, Kirby wins all match-ups.

 

[TimG57867]

t!MmY how many MUs do you personally think Kirby wins? even if it's only slightly.
(Sure hope it ain't like a couple....)
I feel like he has....a ton of small advantage-small disadvantage MUs(??? ??
Which is not necessarily a bad thing overall right, it's just near evenish MUs and stuff.

but then he has those characters that aren't so even, yet still perfectly capable of handling.
???????????

Then those rather tough MUs that, if your uncomfortable, may warrant a secondary, these aren't all necessarily worst MUs, but they are more or less irritating, or whatever.
??

I mean, a lot of these I question, but this seems somewhat accurate. I'm just using what I know and watch and read.
I think he is very well capable of handling the entire cast, if your on point.

But that's what I think, may not even be remotely accurate, but I would like to hear your opinion.
I like the character, and it's sometimes bugs me that he is still considered bad by some.

I don't personally see him being bad, he just doesn't seem to really have much, if anything, that makes him stand out you know?

Too early to post ratios or definitively call matchups. I am just gonna say though that I feel that quite a few of those slightly disadvantageous and disadvantaged matchups are probably even or winning matchups when played correctly. Also Marth and Diddy Kong aren't nearly as bad a good DK or Sonic and definitely aren't as bad as Luigi and Meta Knight. But honestly, if Kirby lost that many matchups he'd be bottom tier. lol

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I thought so, that's why I questioned quite a bit of them.
So his MU spread is like.....it's not the best, but not too bad.
It's basically workable, seems like the best way to describe it.

 

[|RK|]

Once you know what you're doing, Kirby wins all match-ups.

You could say the same for almost every character.

 

[Wintermelon43]

You could say the same for almost every character.

Not Zero Suit Samus Vs. King Dedede

 

[Capt. Tin]

Once you know what you're doing, Kirby wins all match-ups.

A skilled Kirby can beat any Sheik

 

[Vinylic.]

I don't feel like making a thread, so I'll put it up here. My MU Chart, completely by my own opinion based on my history of sets. This should really be taken with a grain of salt; I'm just letting you know that this is how I currently feel.

 

[Wintermelon43]

I don't feel like making a thread, so I'll put it up here. My MU Chart, completely by my own opinion based on my history of sets. This should really be taken with a grain of salt; I'm just letting you know that this is how I currently feel.

View attachment 97241

Sheik is -1. Pac-Man is even. Duck Hunt, Link, and Peach aren't advantageous, instead Palutena, Olimar, Little mac, and a few others are. Meta Knight and Toon Link are -2.

No major problems after that

 

[TimG57867]

I don't feel like making a thread, so I'll put it up here. My MU Chart, completely by my own opinion based on my history of sets. This should really be taken with a grain of salt; I'm just letting you know that this is how I currently feel.

View attachment 97241

Ehh....Since individual spreads are kind of pointless at this time I won't go into detail about my spread differences though I can say that my matchup spread is more positive and balanced overall and doesn't have any minus 3s. And if I ever did include one it would not be to Sheik. She's really no worse than -1 if play smart and use Inhale right. Only has a shot at being that bad and that's a BIG if. That's how I feel anyway.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Ehh....Since individual spreads are kind of pointless at this time I won't go into detail about my spread differences though I can say that my matchup spread is more positive and balanced overall and doesn't have any minus 3s. And if I ever did include one it would not be to Sheik. She's really no worse than -1 if play smart and use Inhale right. Only has a shot at being that bad and that's a BIG if. That's how I feel anyway.

And Sonic.

Sonic, MK, and Toon Link are -3. But not Sheik, Sheik is -1.

 

[TimG57867]

And Sonic.

Sonic, MK, and Toon Link are -3. But not Sheik, Sheik is -1.

I personally think Sonic caps out at -2, and for some reason I just can't see Toon Link being that bad. I mean he was considerably stronger in Brawl and the matchup in that game was widely labeled as a -1.

 

[Furret24]

I personally think Sonic caps out at -2, and for some reason I just can't see Toon Link being that bad. I mean he was considerably stronger in Brawl and the matchup in that game was widely labeled as a -1.

Wasn't Kirby also considerably better in that game?

I can't really say, since I don't play Brawl much.

 

[TimG57867]

Wasn't Kirby also considerably better in that game?

I can't really say, since I don't play Brawl much.

At launch he was. Now at this point all he's missing is his autocancel B-Air, Final Cutter, and slightly higher air speed and the stuff he did get like the improved D-Air are more practical. That said, a decent ranged transcendent projectile would be nice to have against a zoning character like Toon Link. But I honestly think the changes have evened out for both of them now after this patch. That said, I could see the matchup being a -2 at launch.

 

[TimG57867]

I noticed a while back there was a lot of talk of being able to use 's power to do a pseudo-wavedash into attacks. I wondered how practical this was. Then I stumbled upon this while checking a Zae26 (a Kirby who I think doesn't get enough spotlight):

 

[PonderBot]

Has anyone else heard about Kirby's tripping not working anymore after 100%? I saw a game between Hooded and Tokyo and one of the commentators mentioned this but I don't know if it's true or not.

 

[|RK|]

Has anyone else heard about Kirby's tripping not working anymore after 100%? I saw a game between Hooded and Tokyo and one of the commentators mentioned this but I don't know if it's true or not.

Yeah, at high percents it just knocks people away.

 

[Asdioh]

I've been hoping Kirby would be added to http://smashboards.com/threads/hitbox-visualization-compilation.432936/ eventually, but this stuff seems to take a long time, so who knows.
I decided to go through Kirby's moves on Megaman ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJIoS7p_c7s ) and take screenshots of where you get the sparks/glancing blows/phantom hits.


Tilts and Jab1/Jab finisher:

Smashes and specials:

I haven't done aerials yet, maybe later, but they're kinda harder.

 

[MikeKirby]

Hey guys, I don't know if anyone has made an u-throw list or not but I've started one a while ago. I doubt I will finish it all in one go but, as I go along, I want to share it to those who want it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_8wiQBaU9OoBOE8ym3ZWmkpBrD_

Kill percents should be accurate. If there are any inconsistencies please report them to me and I'll double check and correct. It's hard to accurately calculate whole numbers because this game seems to actually have hidden decimal values for damage. I try to get as close to the kill percent then try to add damage via the off screen bubble toward the whole number but that only works until 150%. Also, these are calculated using "vs mode" and not "training mode". In-game there is actually a freshness bonus that's applied to moves that aren't in the stale move's list. So u-throw in game KO's roughly 3% earlier than in training mode. Anyway, hope this helps! Our 1.5% pummel might be enough to confirm it!

Keep in mind I use %'s where I know it will KO with optimal DI. Some characters have weird KO%s. For example, I found that C. Falcon actually gets KO'd at 168.X% and not at 168% exact. I would still advise you to attempt the u-throw if you're 1% percent short though because it just might KO. Even if stale, the next u-throw will KO. Just remember to always squeeze in a pummel or two for some insurance if you're unsure.

I'll be adding more info such as KO % on platforms at max and full rage. Also, I'm thinking about including KO%'s at mid-rage%s which is about 90% damage in game. In due time.

 

[PonderBot]

Is there anything we could do to account for Lylat's shifting blastzones?

 

[Mega-Spider]

Hey guys! You've probably seen me here a few times, and that's because I'm a fellow Kirby main. I'm also a Mega Man player, and ours Mega Mains have just started to discuss Kirby on our MU thread. I think it would be great if some of you guys participated in our discussion. http://smashboards.com/threads/boss...-2-0-week-9-kirby.431933/page-6#post-21138578

 

[|RK|]

What issues are we supposed to have with Bayonetta? She doesn't seem to do anything worse to us than anyone else. Her biggest advantage is her punish game, and we don't do anything extra to bring that on.

 

[PonderBot]

What issues are we supposed to have with Bayonetta? She doesn't seem to do anything worse to us than anyone else. Her biggest advantage is her punish game, and we don't do anything extra to bring that on.

I've heard that we lose the matchup but I haven't seen anything specific. I mean Bayo definitely has a ton of really great tools that are hard to punish but (and this is probably due to lack of matchup knowledge BUT) the neutral just doesn't feel that uncomfortable. She has a lot of great moves that she can use but it doesn't seem particularly difficult to look out for them the same way we would for most other matchups. In my case, these are some of the better Bayos I have faced (sorry for the 3DS and the low quality):
https://vid.me/f1pR
https://vid.me/EBaQ
https://vid.me/Gsn9
https://vid.me/CJ0A
https://vid.me/uZ8M
https://vid.me/khE3
https://vid.me/hzIi
https://vid.me/r6q3
Of course I lost plenty of them but like I said before, I never personally felt too uncomfortable in the neutral. There are some things that are tough to deal with but they at least seem manageable.

 

[|RK|]

I've heard that we lose the matchup but I haven't seen anything specific. I mean Bayo definitely has a ton of really great tools that are hard to punish but (and this is probably due to lack of matchup knowledge BUT) the neutral just doesn't feel that uncomfortable. She has a lot of great moves that she can use but it doesn't seem particularly difficult to look out for them the same way we would for most other matchups. In my case, these are some of the better Bayos I have faced (sorry for the 3DS and the low quality):
https://vid.me/f1pR
https://vid.me/EBaQ
https://vid.me/Gsn9
https://vid.me/CJ0A
https://vid.me/uZ8M
https://vid.me/khE3
https://vid.me/hzIi
https://vid.me/r6q3
Of course I lost plenty of them but like I said before, I never personally felt too uncomfortable in the neutral. There are some things that are tough to deal with but they at least seem manageable.

Yeah, her neutral isn't threatening. With her special copied, I think even less so. Her biggest strengths lie in her punish and offstage game. Disadvantage, too.

 

[PonderBot]

Yeah, her neutral isn't threatening. With her special copied, I think even less so. Her biggest strengths lie in her punish and offstage game. Disadvantage, too.

Yeah that makes sense though unfortunately it seems like (in my experience at least) copying her ability doesn't actually help us out very much due to the angling but I guess it would be more useful that inhale in this case (labbing required). But hey, at least we look super cute with the Bayo hat :D

 

[|RK|]

Yeah that makes sense though unfortunately it seems like (in my experience at least) copying her ability doesn't actually help us out very much due to the angling but I guess it would be more useful that inhale in this case (labbing required). But hey, at least we look super cute with the Bayo hat :D

It's actually really good. If Kirby is shooting with his hands, it stuffs any approach option Bayonetta has. From the legs, it catches short hops. Bayonetta has to get high above you to do pretty much anything. Then, you can make her eat huge damage offstage, too. It's been godlike in my experience.

 

[PonderBot]

It's actually really good. If Kirby is shooting with his hands, it stuffs any approach option Bayonetta has. From the legs, it catches short hops. Bayonetta has to get high above you to do pretty much anything. Then, you can make her eat huge damage offstage, too. It's been godlike in my experience.

You know what? I shouldn't have even said anything since I definitely know I haven't experimented enough with Kirby's version of the Bullet Arts but if you're saying it's good then I'm not complaining, haha!

 

[TimG57867]

Hey. I was curious as to what's the best way to do an out of shield B-Air with Kirby? It's one of Kirby's most vital out of shield options and I feel I could get my foes to respect my shield more if I could do it consistently as it's better than turning and grabbing. It especially seems to help MikeKirby and @Smash G 0 D a lot.

 

[|RK|]

So it turns out Kirby's dtilt can hit every character hanging from the ledge. Some characters can be hit with the tip, but for the sake of consistency, you might want to inch forward some more. I think this may be a good 2frame option, as it sends opponents low, setting them up for a dair or forcing them to recover predictably.

Thoughts?

 

[MrMFC]

So it turns out Kirby's dtilt can hit every character hanging from the ledge. Some characters can be hit with the tip, but for the sake of consistency, you might want to inch forward some more. I think this may be a good 2frame option, as it sends opponents low, setting them up for a dair or forcing them to recover predictably.

Thoughts?

I agree with you, I use it to two frame pretty often (need to work on it though). It does its job and it's basically no risk low reward; sometimes it's possible to get something like a dair after the dtilt like you said, because people need some time to realize what just happened. Other than that doing another dtilt seems to work as well. It's a small thing, but I think it's pretty useful

 

[PonderBot]

So it turns out Kirby's dtilt can hit every character hanging from the ledge. Some characters can be hit with the tip, but for the sake of consistency, you might want to inch forward some more. I think this may be a good 2frame option, as it sends opponents low, setting them up for a dair or forcing them to recover predictably.

Thoughts?

I think it's definitely something we should all add into our arsenals since Kirby shines with edge guarding so we may as well go for it.

 

[|RK|]

Another thing we've been discussing is airdodge onstage into hup cancelled shield. Works great as a recovery mixup, and keeps us pretty safe.

 

[tominate]

Hey. I was curious as to what's the best way to do an out of shield B-Air with Kirby? It's one of Kirby's most vital out of shield options and I feel I could get my foes to respect my shield more if I could do it consistently as it's better than turning and grabbing. It especially seems to help MikeKirby and @Smash G 0 D a lot.

If your still wondering, the best way I know how is to slide you finger over your jump and A while holding your analog stick opposite of the direction Kirby is facing.

 

[TimG57867]

If your still wondering, the best way I know how is to slide you finger over your jump and A while holding your analog stick opposite of the direction Kirby is facing.

I presume you do this with tap jump?

 

[tominate]

I presume you do this with tap jump?

Nope "Y" button on gamecube controller.