Q&A Kirby's Pondering Curse - Kirby Q&A/FAQ/Directory [CHECK HERE BEFORE MAKING A NEW THREAD]

[MikeKirby]

You'll have to practice it a lot in order to do it consistently. It's a little tough but once you got the timing down it's quite simple~

Here's from my personal notepad with bullet points. Some of Kirby's throws take a quite a bit of technical know-how and awareness. Especially the b-throw>u-air combo since it takes a bit of muscle memory to pull off but the reward is great since u-air is a better move to follow up off of than b-air.

Spoiler

Tested with zero rage

Bowser
*B-throw>u-air (from 0-2%)
*DI dependent and doesn't register as a true combo.

Yoshi
B-throw>u-air (from 6-11%)

Bowser Jr
*B-throw>u-air (from 11-15%)
*can combo with buffered u-tilt, angled f-tilt and b-air

Wario
B-throw>u-air (only @ 9%)

Donkey Kong
B-throw>u-air (from 5-20%)

Little Mac
B-throw>u-air (from 4-6%)

Ganondorf
*B-throw>u-air (from 0-2%)
*DI dependent and doesn't register as a true combo

Toon Link
*B-throw>u-air (from 0-3%)
*true combos starting @ 2%

Marth
B-throw>U-air (from 2-3%)

Kirby
*B-throw>u-air (from 0-9%)
*true combos at 1%

King Dedede
*B-throw>u-air (from 0-28%)
*true combos starting @ 2%

Meta Knight
B-throw>U-air (from 0-4%)

Charizard
*B-throw>U-air (from 0-6%)
*True combos starting @ 3%

Jigglypuff
*B-throw>U-air (from 0-2%)
*True combos starting at 1%

Duck Hunt
B-throw>U-air: (from 2-5%)

Ness
*B-throw>U-air (from 0-8%)
*true combos starting @ 2%)

Captain Falcon
*B-throw>U-air (only @ 0%)
*CAN work but not a true combo.


Villager
*B-throw>U-air (from 0-7%)
*true combos starting @ 2%

Lucina
B-throw>U-air: (from 2-3%)

Shulk
(Buster Mode Only)
*B-throw>U-air: (from 0-21%)
*Possible but not a true combo

Sonic:
B-throw>u-air: (only @ 5%)

As you can see some of them aren't worth going for since some are intricate and demanding like Wario and Sonic. Some also don't combo but can still catch an opponent who's not expecting it like C.Falcon, Ganondorf, Bowser and DDD. However vs Meta Knight, Kirby and Jigglypuff it's the preferred throw combo because you get a b-air after the u-air for a sweet 30%. Vs Meta Knight though, (since he's like a fast faller) you can get an u-tilt in after the u-air for some sweet low ground u-air/u-tilt juggles.

----------------------

Also, jumping air dodge isn't the worst option. In fact it's probably one of the safest options against juggles since very few characters can punish Kirby jumping away and air dodging, especially if he's up high. Unless you get punished for it then I suggest you keep using it as a default defensive option.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

You'll have to practice it a lot in order to do it consistently. It's a little tough but once you got the timing down it's quite simple~

Here's from my personal notepad with bullet points. Some of Kirby's throws take a quite a bit of technical know-how and awareness. Especially the b-throw>u-air combo since it takes a bit of muscle memory to pull off but the reward is great since u-air is a better move to follow up off of than b-air.

Spoiler

Tested with zero rage

Bowser
*B-throw>u-air (from 0-2%)
*DI dependent and doesn't register as a true combo.

Yoshi
B-throw>u-air (from 6-11%)

Bowser Jr
*B-throw>u-air (from 11-15%)
*can combo with buffered u-tilt, angled f-tilt and b-air

Wario
B-throw>u-air (only @ 9%)

Donkey Kong
B-throw>u-air (from 5-20%)

Little Mac
B-throw>u-air (from 4-6%)

Ganondorf
*B-throw>u-air (from 0-2%)
*DI dependent and doesn't register as a true combo

Toon Link
*B-throw>u-air (from 0-3%)
*true combos starting @ 2%

Marth
B-throw>U-air (from 2-3%)

Kirby
*B-throw>u-air (from 0-9%)
*true combos at 1%

King Dedede
*B-throw>u-air (from 0-28%)
*true combos starting @ 2%

Meta Knight
B-throw>U-air (from 0-4%)

Charizard
*B-throw>U-air (from 0-6%)
*True combos starting @ 3%

Jigglypuff
*B-throw>U-air (from 0-2%)
*True combos starting at 1%

Duck Hunt
B-throw>U-air: (from 2-5%)

Ness
*B-throw>U-air (from 0-8%)
*true combos starting @ 2%)

Captain Falcon
*B-throw>U-air (only @ 0%)
*CAN work but not a true combo.


Villager
*B-throw>U-air (from 0-7%)
*true combos starting @ 2%

Lucina
B-throw>U-air: (from 2-3%)

Shulk
(Buster Mode Only)
*B-throw>U-air: (from 0-21%)
*Possible but not a true combo

Sonic:
B-throw>u-air: (only @ 5%)

As you can see some of them aren't worth going for since some are intricate and demanding like Wario and Sonic. Some also don't combo but can still catch an opponent who's not expecting it like C.Falcon, Ganondorf, Bowser and DDD. However vs Meta Knight, Kirby and Jigglypuff it's the preferred throw combo because you get a b-air after the u-air for a sweet 30%. Vs Meta Knight though, (since he's like a fast faller) you can get an u-tilt in after the u-air for some sweet low ground u-air/u-tilt juggles.

----------------------

Also, jumping air dodge isn't the worst option. In fact it's probably one of the safest options against juggles since very few characters can punish Kirby jumping away and air dodging, especially if he's up high. Unless you get punished for it then I suggest you keep using it as a default defensive option.

Thank you! This helped a lot. I've been able to get the timing down several times now and have been trying to see what else I can do coming off of it. Hopefully I can figure something out to help contribute to Kirby's meta more.

In an attempt not to double post on here though is playing a grounded Kirby a better option than relying solely on aerial approaches and mistakes your opponent makes? Like using tilts and jabs more often. I only ask because I got bodied by a Metaknight the other day and couldn't figure out how to get in.

 

[t!MmY]

...is playing a grounded Kirby a better option than relying solely on aerial approaches and mistakes your opponent makes? Like using tilts and jabs more often. I only ask because I got bodied by a Metaknight the other day and couldn't figure out how to get in.

It really depends both on the match-up and on the opponent. Kirby's aerials are good as well as his jab/strong attacks, so being able to mix it up when needed is important.

Meta Knight puts a lot of pressure on his opponent with a nice spread of moves that can devastate the opponent if they don't know what's up. Just make sure to watch for his Dash because he can go for either a Dash Attack or a Grab which both lead into combos. His F-smash is mostly used as bait, so don't go after it or panic if you see it. Just play the match-up as much as you can and try to refine your punish game as well as your reads/spacing.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Is it beneficial that kirby's up throw will not result in a suicide on castle siege when the stage changes to either the 1st or 3rd transformations? Not sure if I had the timing wrong or something but he kept slamming into the descending transformation When I tried.

 

[Delta-cod]

Hey guys, I'm trying to help my friends get better at Smash, and one of them is a die-hard Kirby lover and wants to learn him!

I've poked around the guides and stuff a little bit, so I'm sort of familiar with how he can hurt people, but I was wondering if anyone could link me to an explanation/explain to me how Kirby tends to approach the Neutral game? I really tend to stress the Neutral game when helping people improve, so I want to make sure I can do a good job of it!

Edit: Also, if anyone thinks they have some Kirby videos that they think would be good for me to watch, it'd be greatly appreciated if you could point me in the right direction!

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Hey guys, I'm trying to help my friends get better at Smash, and one of them is a die-hard Kirby lover and wants to learn him!

I've poked around the guides and stuff a little bit, so I'm sort of familiar with how he can hurt people, but I was wondering if anyone could link me to an explanation/explain to me how Kirby tends to approach the Neutral game? I really tend to stress the Neutral game when helping people improve, so I want to make sure I can do a good job of it!

Edit: Also, if anyone thinks they have some Kirby videos that they think would be good for me to watch, it'd be greatly appreciated if you could point me in the right direction!

Izaw's art of Kirby is a good place to start as well as Jtails' competitive guide. Watching videos of competitive Kirby play is also a great way to learn!
Here's a link to the Kirby video thread! Good looking out for your friends!

http://smashboards.com/threads/kirb...irby-video-thread.369253/page-8#post-19001492

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Is the third hit of kirby's fair always guranteed if the first hits? I know you can cancel the move by falling to the ground but is it possible to only get the first two?

 

[Asdioh]

Yes it's possible. Hard to do on purpose though

 

[KingDaiGurren]

I was able to get it to work on the sand bag several times but I haven't been able to get it to work on characters yet. Are there any characters that have a similar weight to it?

 

[SapphSabre777]

I was fiddling through Training Mode today (thanks MikeKirby for the B-Throw to U-Air combo, it is amazing), when I found a U-Tilt to D-Air string that registered as a combo at moderate %s for Dedede, but not for Ness (so character dependent). I don't know if it may be any good at all, but do you think I should study this and get the results? I've got nothing better to do.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

I was fiddling through Training Mode today (thanks MikeKirby for the B-Throw to U-Air combo, it is amazing), when I found a U-Tilt to D-Air string that registered as a combo at moderate %s for Dedede, but not for Ness (so character dependent). I don't know if it may be any good at all, but do you think I should study this and get the results? I've got nothing better to do.

I don't see why not. If you think you can expand on it then I say go for it

 

[da K.I.D.]

Anything that combos into dair is extremely important

 

[SapphSabre777]

Anything that combos into dair is extremely important

Well, I did some fiddling around prior to the OK and such, and I found out some notable things about it, testing it with Ganon and Falcon.

1) Typically, this combo or string (no known name to call it as of now) is only good at moderate to somewhat high %s (50-70%, as far as I know right now), thanks to hitstun and such being relative to %s, from my knowledge. This actually gives us a bit of a combo at moderate %s. The combo itself is caused when the opponent is in jumping distance above Kirby after a sourspot U-Tilt (I don't know if sweetspot U-Tilt will work yet), and the first hit of D-Air overlaps and hits the character. In order to do such, it is immediately going Jump -> D-Air on the first frames airborne, and then adjusting to overlap with the opponent.

2) I tested both DI up and down. For DI up, in the limited cases that I found, it actually causes the % needed to do U-Tilt to D-Air to be decreased; however, it may also be tricky, since the lower the %, the lower the time of hitstun which means less time to go to D-Air. For example, 65% is when Ganondorf gets hit with this as a combo without DI. With DI up, 60% is now the benchmark for the combo. Of course, this means the max % for the combo lowers as well, so attention to DI is a good thing here.

3) This one is a big one. Testing DI down causes the conversion to D-Air to not combo, as far as I know; but it has a silver lining to it also. It leads to U-Tilt to U-Air, F-Air, B-Air, etc. because they now put themselves in range where Kirby can do a singular jump to hit them. In other words, DI down just opens up more options to follow up anyways.

DI to the left and right makes it a bit trickier to land the combo, or allows them to escape, pending on the character.

4) Another interesting point to this. Air dodging D-Air practically sets up for a bigger punishment, thanks to how low the landing lag on D-Air is.

Again, I'll need to study more on this, but this seems like a really neat thing. I'll let you guys know on any progress on it. It may be character dependent, but whatever sort of tricks we have will do in any scenario.

EDIT: Considering if it won't hit without DI, it won't hit at all, I tested the entire cast (sans Mii fighters) on Training Mode. It works on 45 out of 50 characters, the ones that don't work being Luigi, Rosa (w/ Luma), Palutena, Jigglypuff, and Wii Fit Trainer. To be honest, I wasn't expecting it to work on THAT much of the cast.

 

[Underhill]

Its hard to get a back-air out of Kirby's back throw on low percents. Is the timing strict?

 

[Asdioh]

You can just mash the A button while holding the control stick backwards. It's just that the combo only works at very low percents, on very specific characters. If Kirby's at a high percentage, Rage also makes the combo not work sometimes. You can find the percentages in here http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-kirbys-epic-guide-ver-2-1.367840/

 

[da K.I.D.]

Quick note on jigglypuff. Since shes the lightest chacter in the game, the landing hitbox of dair knocks her too high for any ground follow up. So in front, instead of d tilt you should fair and instead of up tilt from behind you should bair.

Regarding the backthrow bair combo, you ha e to do the bair really early, like right after kirby hits the ground from the suplex.

On the uptilt to dair thing, is that from the ground or is there a way to get a dair from the low percent up tilt strings that hit them while thwir in the air.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Considering the fact that so manh people now know not to mash jump in order to get out of utilities strings what's the best option in continuing the string into greater punishes?

 

[Altair357]

Up tilt if they're behind you and down tilt if they're in front of you. Up tilt leads into combos and down tilt can trip, which leads into a grab + pummels + down throw.

Since only grounded characters can trip, it won't successfully trip on every character. For example, dair to down tilt can trip on Captain Falcon, but not on Mr. Game and Watch. If it proves not to be reliable against the character you're fighting, I'd just do a grab and build damage from there. If you're brave, you might try a jab 1 to grab, but this is only a mixup and is not guaranteed.

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

It's mostly weight dependent when it comes to this kind of stuff honestly. On floaty characters like Luigi or Jiggs I like to do 2 or 3 u-tilts and shield as a way of seeing how my opponent reacts after they can escape the strings. On fast fallers like C.Falcon or Fox u-tilt strings for a long time so I really don't need to predict what my opponent needs to do since I can just finish the string with an up-smash or upper cutter which unfortunately doesn't work on floaties.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

It's mostly weight dependent when it comes to this kind of stuff honestly. On floaty characters like Luigi or Jiggs I like to do 2 or 3 u-tilts and shield as a way of seeing how my opponent reacts after they can escape the strings. On fast fallers like C.Falcon or Fox u-tilt strings for a long time so I really don't need to predict what my opponent needs to do since I can just finish the string with an up-smash or upper cutter which unfortunately doesn't work on floaties.

Typically that's what I do on cpt. Falcon and fox specifically too but those have been the ones falling out of it which is weird because I've gotten them multiple times in other players of the same character

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

Do you make sure to pivot u-tilts mid-string because the animation comes out faster behind Kirby than in front of him.

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Do you make sure to pivot u-tilts mid-string because the animation comes out faster behind Kirby than in front of him.

I do. I switch depending on which side they move to.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

What do you guys rank his throws?
for me,
Bthrow, Uthrow, Dthrow, Fthrow(i barely ever use this and most of the time its by accident, but maybe i kinda underestimate its already little combo ability)

 

[SapphSabre777]

I got finished last night on the whole U-Tilt (sourspot) to D-Air thing I mentioned (took many hours, believe me), and I have accumulated a rough estimate on the numbers. It should be noted that the test was done on Training Mode (so no DI tests in that regard), just to see the relative range of when the combo is true.

The big thing I saw that made the combo true was the animation of the opponent. What makes the combo true, I figured out, was how low the character was to get the confirm, and what parts of the body stick downwards during the hit animation for the opponent (Link, for example, has his legs and knees go diagonally downwards during the animation, allowing Kirby's D-Air to connect at higher %s than most).

Lighter characters or characters that "pop up" more easily have less %s to where this works thanks to the fact that lower %s yield less hitstun, meaning less time for the opponent to move again, and the animation/pop-up of the character allows them to go too high for the first frames of D-Air to connect (Kirby himself is a good example. He pops up very high at the lower %s, and not a lot of his body juts downwards during the animation after getting hit).

Another thing to note during the spoilers is that using the lower %s may require us to use the outermost part of the sourspot U-Tilt; otherwise, just using a bit of range with U-Tilt will be fine, so further adjustments may be needed.

Finally, it should also be noted that any attack less than 7 frames in startup WILL HIT KIRBY if he is slow on the combo, unless it goes right above him. Attacks with 7 frames exactly may trade or be too slow, while attacks with above 7 frames of lag will be too slow, meaning it can also double as a frame trap. I mostly tested N-Air since I had two controllers, and my little brother did not want to help me out thanks to his deep grudge on Smash (thanks bro XD), so this was done on my own.

Regardless, here are my rough results in the Spoiler Tags. Oh, and I omitted the Miis again. I'll get to it sooner or later. XD

Spoiler: Data

[Character] (% range of where it true combos, if it can; additional comments)

(50-57%, can get hit by N-Air)
(Cannot combo, gets hit by N-Air)
(48-49%, gets hit by N-Air)
(Cannot combo, but is relatively safe since aerials are slow)
(52-54, gets hit by N-Air)

(Cannot combo, can be safe, but beware of Luma)
(54-67%, is safe I think)
(53-72%, gets hit by N-Air)
(57-84%, is safe) [those legs]
(49-77%, gets hit by F-Air)
(44-50%, is safe since N-Air goes over Kirby)
(46-77%, gets hit by N-Air)
(52-80%, may get hit by N-Air)
(47-49%, gets hit by N-Air)
(51-69%, gets hit by N-Air)
(58-77%, trades with N-Air)
(49-56%, gets hit by N-Air)
(53-67%, F-Air may hit Kirby; be careful since Samus' spread legs may cause some hits to miss at higher %s)
(48-74%, gets hit by F-Air; spread legs can cause some hits to miss around 68%+)
(50-76%, gets hit by N-Air)
(Cannot combo, gets hit by N-Air)
(48-80%, N-Air may hit; spread legs can cause some hits to miss around the 70s)
(53-85%, is safe)
(51-76%, is safe; above 76% causes the "legs" issue)
(49-77%, gets hit by N-Air)
(45-48%, is safe)
(56-93%, N-Air may connect)
(47-70%, gets hit by N-Air)
(45-74%, gets hit by N-Air)
(46-71%, gets hit by N-Air)
(45-60, gets hit by N-Air)
(56-73%, is safe; must be from behind Charizard thanks to his forward-facing hitbox)
(51-81%, may get hit by F-Air)
(Cannot combo, gets hit by N-Air)
(49-65%, may get hit by U-Air)
(53-89%, gets hit by F-Air)
(49-57%, gets hit by N-Air)
(52-93%, gets hit by N-Air)
(50-63%, gets hit by N-Air)
(45-62%, gets hit by N-Air)
(Cannot combo, gets hit by U-Air)
(52-79%, Vision may hit; haven't tested Shield or Smash)
(50-57%, gets hit by N-Air)
(50-76%, gets hit by N-Air)
(48-80%, N-Air can whiff; legs issue)
(50-62%, gets hit by N-Air)
(53-92%, gets hit by N-Air)
(50-60%, gets hit by N-Air)
(48-59%, N-Air may whiff)

 

[KingDaiGurren]

What do you guys rank his throws?
for me,
Bthrow, Uthrow, Dthrow, Fthrow(i barely ever use this and most of the time its by accident, but maybe i kinda underestimate its already little combo ability)

I use d throw, b throw, f throw and up throw. D throw is a reliable 13.-14% with pummels, b throw is better for kills even though I rarely go for kills with his throws. I only really use u throw for style tbh

 

[da K.I.D.]

Now you said those combos are with the weak hit of up tilt?

I need to understand fully because like i said, anything that combos in to dair is a big deal and some of these prevent ranges are so big that we might be able to loop the sequence alla 64 for massive damage.

Example. Down air on dk at 50. With all the hits, hes now at 59, 4% weak up tilt, 63. Combo into dair, 72, weak up tilt again, 76, combo into another dair, 85. Down tilt trip, 91. F smash or grab pummel down throw.

Thats an inescapable 55+ percent combo. If you get them near the edge, f smash at 90 might even kill. All of it inescapble. From 50 to 100 and possibly death.

That the kind of potential im looking for

 

[nikoryan]

You'll have to practice it a lot in order to do it consistently. It's a little tough but once you got the timing down it's quite simple~

Here's from my personal notepad with bullet points. Some of Kirby's throws take a quite a bit of technical know-how and awareness. Especially the b-throw>u-air combo since it takes a bit of muscle memory to pull off but the reward is great since u-air is a better move to follow up off of than b-air.

Spoiler

Tested with zero rage

Bowser
*B-throw>u-air (from 0-2%)
*DI dependent and doesn't register as a true combo.

Yoshi
B-throw>u-air (from 6-11%)

Bowser Jr
*B-throw>u-air (from 11-15%)
*can combo with buffered u-tilt, angled f-tilt and b-air

Wario
B-throw>u-air (only @ 9%)

Donkey Kong
B-throw>u-air (from 5-20%)

Little Mac
B-throw>u-air (from 4-6%)

Ganondorf
*B-throw>u-air (from 0-2%)
*DI dependent and doesn't register as a true combo

Toon Link
*B-throw>u-air (from 0-3%)
*true combos starting @ 2%

Marth
B-throw>U-air (from 2-3%)

Kirby
*B-throw>u-air (from 0-9%)
*true combos at 1%

King Dedede
*B-throw>u-air (from 0-28%)
*true combos starting @ 2%

Meta Knight
B-throw>U-air (from 0-4%)

Charizard
*B-throw>U-air (from 0-6%)
*True combos starting @ 3%

Jigglypuff
*B-throw>U-air (from 0-2%)
*True combos starting at 1%

Duck Hunt
B-throw>U-air: (from 2-5%)

Ness
*B-throw>U-air (from 0-8%)
*true combos starting @ 2%)

Captain Falcon
*B-throw>U-air (only @ 0%)
*CAN work but not a true combo.


Villager
*B-throw>U-air (from 0-7%)
*true combos starting @ 2%

Lucina
B-throw>U-air: (from 2-3%)

Shulk
(Buster Mode Only)
*B-throw>U-air: (from 0-21%)
*Possible but not a true combo

Sonic:
B-throw>u-air: (only @ 5%)

As you can see some of them aren't worth going for since some are intricate and demanding like Wario and Sonic. Some also don't combo but can still catch an opponent who's not expecting it like C.Falcon, Ganondorf, Bowser and DDD. However vs Meta Knight, Kirby and Jigglypuff it's the preferred throw combo because you get a b-air after the u-air for a sweet 30%. Vs Meta Knight though, (since he's like a fast faller) you can get an u-tilt in after the u-air for some sweet low ground u-air/u-tilt juggles.

----------------------

Also, jumping air dodge isn't the worst option. In fact it's probably one of the safest options against juggles since very few characters can punish Kirby jumping away and air dodging, especially if he's up high. Unless you get punished for it then I suggest you keep using it as a default defensive option.

With those bthrow to uair combos, do you just memorize the percents they can work with each character?
I'm getting it like 70% of the time the timing is difficult so I might just do bthrow to bair to be safe..
But it's really rewarding to do a bthrow to uair cause it follows up into an up tilt and a bair sometimes. I'll work on it though.

 

[Poupoko]

Finally, it should also be noted that any attack less than 7 frames in startup WILL HIT KIRBY if he is slow on the combo, unless it goes right above him. Attacks with 7 frames exactly may trade or be too slow, while attacks with above 7 frames of lag will be too slow, meaning it can also double as a frame trap. I mostly tested N-Air since I had two controllers, and my little brother did not want to help me out thanks to his deep grudge on Smash (thanks bro XD), so this was done on my own.

So hold on, are you saying that there is no possibility of getting hit if we're fast enough? Or can we always get hit by F7 or faster?
That's probably the most important thing here: if this is uninterruptible, then with some practice, this might be game changing.

Nice job by the way, thanks for the hours of testing!

 

[SapphSabre777]

Now you said those combos are with the weak hit of up tilt?

I need to understand fully because like i said, anything that combos in to dair is a big deal and some of these prevent ranges are so big that we might be able to loop the sequence alla 64 for massive damage.

Example. Down air on dk at 50. With all the hits, hes now at 59, 4% weak up tilt, 63. Combo into dair, 72, weak up tilt again, 76, combo into another dair, 85. Down tilt trip, 91. F smash or grab pummel down throw.

Thats an inescapable 55+ percent combo. If you get them near the edge, f smash at 90 might even kill. All of it inescapble. From 50 to 100 and possibly death.

That the kind of potential im looking for

Yes, the weak hit (4%) is what is used to go to D-Air. In terms of the example, again, as stated way back, DI downwards pretty much destroys the combo, but it opens up finishers suchs as B-Air, F-Air, etc. if you manage to go for a second one. DI to the left and to the right also messes things up a bit, but also allows some finishers, or has no relative effect at all. Paying attention to the opponent's DI habits can help find out what to do.

Unfortunately, I can't see a smart player falling for the combo multiple times, but it can definitely be conditioned to have it happen multiple times. That, and using a reset (such as Jab after the landing hit of D-Air, which spaces them out a bit to where the outer tip and such of U-Tilt hits, and the cycle repeats unless they still DI down, or too much to the left or right) can cause the circumstances to happen again.

Despite the fact that the highest damage output (such as the 55%+ example) is going to be rare on high-leveled competition, the fact that it can lead to at least 13%+ or a kill confirm (you are right, you can use this to go into a kill confirm in D-Tilt to F-Smash) and can be used as a conditioning tool to DI in other directions means it does have some potential to it. I'd definitely give it a shot, personally.

So hold on, are you saying that there is no possibility of getting hit if we're fast enough? Or can we always get hit by F7 or faster?
That's probably the most important thing here: if this is uninterruptible, then with some practice, this might be game changing.

Nice job by the way, thanks for the hours of testing!

It is uninterruptable on all moves that are later than F7 (i.e. F8+), which means the only safe option for the opponent is jumping, since air dodging doesn't work thanks to D-Air being a frame trap of its own in that regard.

F7 moves are tricky, since they don't all happen at the same timing (I swear Dedede's comes out later). There is a bit of a miniscule difference on them, but perhaps it is just mere coincidence.

For F6 or less, you get hit UNLESS you land the combo, in which case, it true combos or even frame traps sometimes.

Also, DI matters here, since DI down makes it to where they have less time needed to act again (meaning they can hit you or escape, but also means that you can go for a DI-specific combo, making it a nice conditioning tool, i.e. U-Tilt to B-Air on higher than normal %s) and DI to the left or to the right may cause us to be out of range for the conversion (since Kirby's horizontal aerial mobility isn't the greatest, but can give us positional advantages or DI-specific combos). DI Up just speeds up the % needed for the combo iirc, though it does close the range of the %s needed for it to be a true combo.

To finalize this:

@ da K.I.D. Weak hit of U-Tilt (4%) is what is always used, and although it won't give out the 55%+ combo or what not, it can lead to a lot of positional advantages and DI conditioning.

@ Poupoko If you are fast enough, and have good positioning, this combo is a true combo or it frame traps, meaning you do not get hit by F7 or less aerials unless you don't convert, or if they DI in a different way. Like I said above, great for DI conditioning, I feel.

Hopefully some of the more active players can take a stab at this, like @ Asdioh , @Triple R, @ MikeKirby , etc., so they can give an analysis on the competitive worth of it all. I'm not quite sure about the true competitive value of it myself from a high-level standpoint, but it looks like a nice utility under the belt.

 

[Poupoko]

Do we have any frame data on Stone? The start-up in particular. I tried reading through the "Frame and Hitbox Data" pastebin, but couldn't find anything too helpful.

 

[Kaladin]

So I'm in between mains right now and am considering Kirby. I read the Kirby's epic guide which has great data, but no actual playstyle info. Could someone point me towards an outline of Kirby's neutral, grab game, kill setups, etc? Thanks!

 

[Emerlad_Element]

One question I have is are there any copy abilities worth going for? I've found that Pac-man's Bonus Fruit and Shulk's Monado Arts can do amazing things for Kirby but are there any other abilities that are good to go for? Thanks in advance for answering. (Oh and sorry if this has already been asked, I looked around to make sure it hadn't been but I didn't see it)

 

[Poupoko]

One question I have is are there any copy abilities worth going for? I've found that Pac-man's Bonus Fruit and Shulk's Monado Arts can do amazing things for Kirby but are there any other abilities that are good to go for? Thanks in advance for answering. (Oh and sorry if this has already been asked, I looked around to make sure it hadn't been but I didn't see it)

Basically anything that gives you a decent, non-laggy projectile or disjoint can find some use. Personally, I like Samus, ROB, G+W and Marth. Pikachu and Olimar are really good too, but you kinda have to be careful with them.

If you find an opening for an Inhale though, it's probably best to get the ability unless you're fighting someone that Inhale > Copy, little Little Mac or Ganon.

 

[da K.I.D.]

You just have to try them all and see.

But usually anythingnthta gives him some added viability will help. Solid projectiles, roys flare blade is good. You can pretty much tell how good it will be for kirby based on how oftn the original character uses the move

 

[Imber]

Maybe I'm the only person who didn't know this but I just noticed that dtilt stops having any chance to trip the opponent when they are past a certain character specific percent. It doesn't seem that useful since the percents are pretty high but it might be good to know in certain matchups where Kirby has a tough time landing kills.

Edit: The percents are much lower when Kirby has high rage so this probably comes into play all the time I just never noticed.

 

[da K.I.D.]

The kb growth also means that at high percents, even if you get the trip, you might not get the follow up cus the tilt pushed them so far away

 

[Imber]

The kb growth also means that at high percents, even if you get the trip, you might not get the follow up cus the tilt pushed them so far away

Yeah especially when Kirby has a lot of rage and the opponent buffers a roll it can be really tough or even impossible depending on the range you use dtilt at. The thing I didn't know is that Kirby's rage combined with the other characters weight and percent determine whether it is even possible to trip them. Even if a guaranteed followup is impossible, tripping your opponent still puts you in a favorable position, since your opponent's options are basically the same as if they missed a tech. Another thing you can do is Non-Corner Dash Pivot Dtilt, which lets Kirby slide forward on the ground as he dtilts, making follow ups much easier. You can even do NCDP dtilt->Dsmash at kill percents with pretty high rage which isn't possible with a regular dtilt. Of course, this is only guaranteed if you trip them, which is why I thought this might be important.

 

[Asdioh]

Non-Corner Dash Pivot Dtilt

...we should really just call them "sliding dtilts" or "sliding ____" because that's the dumbest name, even worse than IASA!
And I always forget to use them, but they're kinda good! Except if your opponent blocks, then you slide into them with your Dtilt, which makes you easier to punish than if it was a spaced Dtilt. :/

 

[Imber]

...we should really just call them "sliding dtilts" or "sliding ____" because that's the dumbest name, even worse than IASA!
And I always forget to use them, but they're kinda good! Except if your opponent blocks, then you slide into them with your Dtilt, which makes you easier to punish than if it was a spaced Dtilt. :/

Lol yeah I was going to suggest a new name for it too but I wasn't sure if there already was one. None of the other character boards seem to mention it so we might as well name it ourselves. Sliding dtilt is fine but kinda boring.

As for the tech itself, I think this is something that can best be taken advantage of with proper use of conditioning. To initiate the slide there is a noticeable start-up because you have to first dash away, turn around, and run back. Any good opponent will notice this, but if you watch how they react, you can use it to punish them later. This is just a concept though I'm still experimenting with working it into my game. Maybe I'll make a post about some possible mix-ups in the AT thread.

 

[Asdioh]

Lol yeah I was going to suggest a new name for it too but I wasn't sure if there already was one. None of the other character boards seem to mention it so we might as well name it ourselves. Sliding dtilt is fine but kinda boring.

It doesn't matter if it's boring, what matters is that it's concise! You know exactly what it does by reading the name. That's a win.
"Interruptable As Soon As (IASA)" is also concise technically, but you could also just call it a move's endlag and it's literally the same thing.