Q&A Kirby's Pondering Curse - Kirby Q&A/FAQ/Directory [CHECK HERE BEFORE MAKING A NEW THREAD]

[Imber]

"Interruptable As Soon As (IASA)" is also concise technically, but you could also just call it a move's endlag and it's literally the same thing.

But it's not really lag since it's interruptable

 

[da K.I.D.]

Whatt is this about dash pivoting? Whats that and hows it work

 

[Imber]

Whatt is this about dash pivoting? Whats that and hows it work

Here's a thread about it. http://smashboards.com/threads/kirbys-non-corner-dash-pivot-discussion.388381/

 

[ShadowandSonic1]

Curious question, I am currently maining Kirby however I would like to know if there is a good compliment that would be a side main for Kirby

 

[ShadowandSonic1]

I have a question for anyone here, what would be a good compliment to side main while I main Kirby?

 

[Sabaca]

What are Kirbys worst MUs?

 

[Asdioh]

Well in my eyes, Kirby has 3 notable strengths: a short crouch, some nice combos (mostly vertical combos from uptilt) and pretty good edgeguarding ability. His weaknesses include poor speed, light weight, low range, few disjoints, and few safe KO setups. He struggles against characters who he can't abuse with his strengths, and make his weaknesses obvious.

Due to my experience against the character (and possible bias) I'll use Sonic as an example: Kirby's shortness does not help at all against him. Kirby can't combo him for long because of Sonic's weight/fallspeed, and ability to Spring out of combos and run away. He also can't edgeguard Sonic very easily, Spring is very fast, has some invincibility, and Sonic can change the timing. Then Sonic's speed just overwhelms Kirby, and he combos Kirby very easily.

So yeah, if Kirby's 3 strengths don't do much against a character, he's probably going to have a hard time. I think Sonic and Yoshi are two of his hardest matchups, mostly because of his inability to combo them, because they can run away and reset to neutral easily. I think Kirby also struggles against most sword characters like Marth, they outrange him very easily. I haven't played a good Ike recently, but I can imagine that being a hard matchup. Link is also pretty tough, but at least Kirby can use his strengths against Link, he's easy enough to combo and edgeguard. Characters that can survive enough to use Rage well are terrifying because of Kirby's light weight. Dedede lives forever, and is hard to get in on because of his huge range. Lucario doesn't seem to hard when you're beating him up all the time, but Kirby's lack of safe KO options becomes terrifying once Lucario's past 100%, and starts being able to KO you from 0% in 3-4 hits. Ness' backthrow is always a threat, especially if he lives long.

So yeah in my opinion, Kirby suffers the most against Sonic, Yoshi, sword characters, and characters that generally have a "volatile" style of play, where they can either lose badly, or win badly (heavyweights like Ganondorf, or dudes like Little Mac or Lucario whose gimmicks can vary wildly depending on the game). On the plus side, I think he has pretty good matchups against a few popular tournament characters like Sheik, Falcon, and Fox, and passable matchups against a lot of other characters.

 

[ShadowandSonic1]

Well in my eyes, Kirby has 3 notable strengths: a short crouch, some nice combos (mostly vertical combos from uptilt) and pretty good edgeguarding ability. His weaknesses include poor speed, light weight, low range, few disjoints, and few safe KO setups. He struggles against characters who he can't abuse with his strengths, and make his weaknesses obvious.

Due to my experience against the character (and possible bias) I'll use Sonic as an example: Kirby's shortness does not help at all against him. Kirby can't combo him for long because of Sonic's weight/fallspeed, and ability to Spring out of combos and run away. He also can't edgeguard Sonic very easily, Spring is very fast, has some invincibility, and Sonic can change the timing. Then Sonic's speed just overwhelms Kirby, and he combos Kirby very easily.

So yeah, if Kirby's 3 strengths don't do much against a character, he's probably going to have a hard time. I think Sonic and Yoshi are two of his hardest matchups, mostly because of his inability to combo them, because they can run away and reset to neutral easily. I think Kirby also struggles against most sword characters like Marth, they outrange him very easily. I haven't played a good Ike recently, but I can imagine that being a hard matchup. Link is also pretty tough, but at least Kirby can use his strengths against Link, he's easy enough to combo and edgeguard. Characters that can survive enough to use Rage well are terrifying because of Kirby's light weight. Dedede lives forever, and is hard to get in on because of his huge range. Lucario doesn't seem to hard when you're beating him up all the time, but Kirby's lack of safe KO options becomes terrifying once Lucario's past 100%, and starts being able to KO you from 0% in 3-4 hits. Ness' backthrow is always a threat, especially if he lives long.

So yeah in my opinion, Kirby suffers the most against Sonic, Yoshi, sword characters, and characters that generally have a "volatile" style of play, where they can either lose badly, or win badly (heavyweights like Ganondorf, or dudes like Little Mac or Lucario whose gimmicks can vary wildly depending on the game). On the plus side, I think he has pretty good matchups against a few popular tournament characters like Sheik, Falcon, and Fox, and passable matchups against a lot of other characters.

If that is the case what would be good options that allow me to side main in case i go against the bad match ups for Kirby. I would still like to stick to a similar playstyle.

 

[Asdioh]

It's up to you. Sheik's always a good answer, but I feel like Fox is a good second, and I also felt that way in Brawl. Most of Fox's moves have the same basic feeling as Kirby's moves, just with different properties, on a faster (and higher tier) character with different strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Paxadin]

So yeah, if Kirby's 3 strengths don't do much against a character, he's probably going to have a hard time. I think Sonic and Yoshi are two of his hardest matchups

I was actually trying to find someone's opinion on the Sonic MU.
I just lost 2-0 in FG against a Sonic that did nothing but spin dash to up-special and sometimes neutral-special and I found myself unable to do much. Spin dash required trading hits which only ended poorly for me, or dodging it, which also ended poorly for me.

Do you have any tips to deal with Sonic in general?

 

[Pyrofishy]

Entirely new to Kirby, but I want to be good at him, but I have a few questions.

When Kirby takes the fire breath from Charizard or Bowser, do the flames have the same hitbox as the flames for Charizard or Bowser?

When Kirby takes Zelda's neutral+B, does it have the same hitbox as Zelda's neutral+B?

Does tipper work with Marth's Neutral+B?

When Kirby takes Shulk's Neutral+B, do they work the same as when Shulk uses it? I know he gets the powers and all but do they work the same?

When Kirby takes Pac-Man's Neutral+B, do they work the same when Pac-Man uses it?

When Kirby takes Roy's Neutral+B, does the hilt thing work still?


What are some good combos from like any stand point? Throws, moves, anything. What are some good combos?

 

[Aunt Jemima]

I merged your thread with this one, as it's the primary place to ask questions. I'll answer them later tonight if it isn't done by then~

 

[ShadowandSonic1]

I was actually trying to find someone's opinion on the Sonic MU.
I just lost 2-0 in FG against a Sonic that did nothing but spin dash to up-special and sometimes neutral-special and I found myself unable to do much. Spin dash required trading hits which only ended poorly for me, or dodging it, which also ended poorly for me.

Do you have any tips to deal with Sonic in general?

Generally agaisnt a sonic you have to wait for that person to mess up. when they do the spin dash watch the movement because they have very few options after they launch a spin dash. its either they stop at the end of the dash and depending how fast you can react you punish or they jump in the air and they try again

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Edit: Nevermind lol

 

[Poupoko]

Entirely new to Kirby, but I want to be good at him, but I have a few questions.

When Kirby takes the fire breath from Charizard or Bowser, do the flames have the same hitbox as the flames for Charizard or Bowser?

When Kirby takes Zelda's neutral+B, does it have the same hitbox as Zelda's neutral+B?

Does tipper work with Marth's Neutral+B?

When Kirby takes Shulk's Neutral+B, do they work the same as when Shulk uses it? I know he gets the powers and all but do they work the same?

When Kirby takes Pac-Man's Neutral+B, do they work the same when Pac-Man uses it?

When Kirby takes Roy's Neutral+B, does the hilt thing work still?

What are some good combos from like any stand point? Throws, moves, anything. What are some good combos?

So Kirby basically copies every property of the move he's using. So the answer to all the above is yes. Because Kirby is pretty small, some of his moves will be a little lower to the ground than normal, like Robin's Thoron and Falco's lasers.

The only three abilities I can think of that are different are:
- Lucario's Aura Sphere (no aura effect)
- MK's Mach Tornado (mashing B only gives like 13% damage max for some reason)
- Olimar's Pikmin Pluck (Kirby tosses them right after plucking so that they can be useful)

As for combos, Kirby doesn't really have combos set in stone like Mario or Luigi, but he's pretty flexible and is able to get decent followups on mostly every character. U-tilt and D-air are main combo starters, D-tilt and N-air can also work occasionally. Also, Kirby can B-throw to B-air some select characters (http://smashboards.com/threads/unbairable-kirby-bthrow-bair-percentages.396190/) and F-throw to F-air a few characters at around 0%.

 

[Dessa]

Mike Kirby seems to throw out jabs to disrupt a spindashing sonic. Those clash, which puts him right in front of you. I don't know which is the best move to throw out from there, but if you keep mashing A after that clash, you'll keep clashing any jabs he throws out until you're both dumped out of jab range. From there, he's too close to safely spindash again, and you can actually try to fight him.

 

[Pyrofishy]

So Kirby basically copies every property of the move he's using. So the answer to all the above is yes. Because Kirby is pretty small, some of his moves will be a little lower to the ground than normal, like Robin's Thoron and Falco's lasers.

The only three abilities I can think of that are different are:
- Lucario's Aura Sphere (no aura effect)
- MK's Mach Tornado (mashing B only gives like 13% damage max for some reason)
- Olimar's Pikmin Pluck (Kirby tosses them right after plucking so that they can be useful)

As for combos, Kirby doesn't really have combos set in stone like Mario or Luigi, but he's pretty flexible and is able to get decent followups on mostly every character. U-tilt and D-air are main combo starters, D-tilt and N-air can also work occasionally. Also, Kirby can B-throw to B-air some select characters (http://smashboards.com/threads/unbairable-kirby-bthrow-bair-percentages.396190/) and F-throw to F-air a few characters at around 0%.

Thank you!

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Sorry for the Matchup question, I didn't see it was answered in this thread already.
I have other two: --> Is it possible to use Stone as a safe landing option? Not to hit anyone, just to fall faster.
--> I constantly use Down-Air as a approach/combo starter and the opponent can shield it. Am I being predictable or using it too early?

 

[Altair357]

Sorry for the Matchup question, I didn't see it was answered in this thread already.
I have other two: --> Is it possible to use Stone as a safe landing option? Not to hit anyone, just to fall faster.
--> I constantly use Down-Air as a approach/combo starter and the opponent can shield it. Am I being predictable or using it too early?

Stone isn't a safe landing option if your opponent is close by, as your opponent can easily punish on reaction. It could be pretty safe if they're far away, though, unless they have a projectile.

You're likely being too predictable with down air. When your opponent sees you above them, they're going to immediately expect a down air and throw up their shield. If you use the down air, I recommend landing behind them so their out of shield options are limited. They likely won't be able to grab you easily and will have to resort to another move. However, there's something else you can do. When your opponent is conditioned to shield when you're above them, try landing on the ground without using any aerials and then quickly grabbing them out of their shield. This is a mixup known as a tomahawk grab. Once you have the grab, you can do the standard pummels + down throw or whatever you see fit.

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Stone isn't a safe landing option if your opponent is close by, as your opponent can easily punish on reaction. It could be pretty safe if they're far away, though, unless they have a projectile.

You're likely being too predictable with down air. When your opponent sees you above them, they're going to immediately expect a down air and throw up their shield. If you use the down air, I recommend landing behind them so their out of shield options are limited. They likely won't be able to grab you easily and will have to resort to another move. However, there's something else you can do. When your opponent is conditioned to shield when you're above them, try landing on the ground without using any aerials and then quickly grabbing them out of their shield. This is a mixup known as a tomahawk grab. Once you have the grab, you can do the standard pummels + down throw or whatever you see fit.

Thanks!!! I will keep in mind.

 

[Iceweasel]

How does Kirby fare against Rosalina or Little Mac? How good is his gimp game?

 

[Untamed]

I'm been switching mains like a mad man, but i'm forcing myself to stay with kirby. That being said, is there anything I should learn/know as a new kirby main? Is there a good secondary for kirby's bad MU? Also, what ARE kirby's bad MU's?

thanks!

 

[S_B]

Never mind. Answered my own question.

 

[GhettoNinja]

So I'm sorry if this has been discussed already but at 0% F Throw into Dair, into Grab, F Throw Dair is that a actual combo or is it just me being crazy post Buff?

 

[Dessa]

So I'm sorry if this has been discussed already but at 0% F Throw into Dair, into Grab, F Throw Dair is that a actual combo or is it just me being crazy post Buff?

It it on some characters, not on others. Nobody has yet posted the full details of who and with what percentages. If you feel like digging, that particular chain is discussed a lot in here: http://smashboards.com/threads/kirbys-1-10-buffs

Folks say when it isn't a combo, it works pretty well against randos, but the local pros say it probably would not in a tourney

 

[GhettoNinja]

It it on some characters, not on others. Nobody has yet posted the full details of who and with what percentages. If you feel like digging, that particular chain is discussed a lot in here: http://smashboards.com/threads/kirbys-1-10-buffs

Folks say when it isn't a combo, it works pretty well against randos, but the local pros say it probably would not in a tourney

Alright thanks, I'll try to compile a list, it seems useful to have just incase.

 

[GhettoNinja]

I'm been switching mains like a mad man, but i'm forcing myself to stay with kirby. That being said, is there anything I should learn/know as a new kirby main? Is there a good secondary for kirby's bad MU? Also, what ARE kirby's bad MU's?

thanks!

Personally I think RosaLuma is a nightmare if you can't get the copy ability. Some say sonic is a bad MU but I've never lost to a sonic with Kirby and Ive played a lot of good ones. Ike is IMO one of our hardest MU

 

[Wintermelon43]

I'm been switching mains like a mad man, but i'm forcing myself to stay with kirby. That being said, is there anything I should learn/know as a new kirby main? Is there a good secondary for kirby's bad MU? Also, what ARE kirby's bad MU's?

thanks!

Learn the combos. I don't even know ALL of them, since there's no thread for them, buttt..... as for matchups Yoshi's DEFITENLY our hardest matchup, almost everyone agrees.

Which leads to a question from me. Is there a list of combos somewhere on these forums?

 

[GhettoNinja]

Learn the combos. I don't even know ALL of them, since there's no thread for them, buttt..... as for matchups Yoshi's DEFITENLY our hardest matchup, almost everyone agrees.

Which leads to a question from me. Is there a list of combos somewhere on these forums?

Well its all about Up-tilt and up air and now F-Throw. Kirby has free form options. Me and this one guy were discussing throw combos prepatch and they still apply.

 

[Blue Mage]

Anyone have some advice against characters with very quick rolls? I find it tough to catch up to them before they start dancing all over the place, and to top it all off most of these characters (like Marth, the Angel Twins, etc) outrange Kirby, so they can easily abuse the game's silly mechanics roll away from something and smack me.

 

[Asdioh]

Anyone have some advice against characters with very quick rolls? I find it tough to catch up to them before they start dancing all over the place, and to top it all off most of these characters (like Marth, the Angel Twins, etc) outrange Kirby, so they can easily abuse the game's silly mechanics roll away from something and smack me.

The best way to beat rolls is to play offline, because rolls are annoyingly good online. Otherwise, it just requires a read... if you know they're gonna roll, you can Dair or Nair in that spot, or just wait and grab, or hold out jab, or Downsmash...



Does anybody know what frame Grounded Stone comes out on? Or heck, what frame Aerial Stone comes out on? I'm talking about Default Stone, the one that does 18% in the air, and 14% with the ground shockwave. I actually think the grounded version is hilariously fast and a decent move. I believe it's Kirby's lowest trajectory move, so if you hit a character with a bad recovery with the shockwave, at the end of the stage, they go flying off downwards, either making them unable to recover, or putting them in an easy edgeguard position.

 

[Bribery]

Aerial Stone was frame 30 in Melee and Brawl. I'm pretty sure it's the same in Sm4sh. The Grounded Stone looks like it's twice as fast. Guessing frame 15.

 

[Asdioh]

Darn, nobody knows for sure? I think it might even be faster than that. It's like... really fast. I guess I could try to compare it in training mode against moves I know the frame data for...

 

[KingDaiGurren]

Do we have a thread dedicated to discussing Kirby's new f-throw or nawh?

I know we have the one about custom abilities and the thread that talks about the new buffs he got in 1.1.0 but other than that I can't seem to find anything

 

[Asdioh]

http://smashboards.com/threads/applications-of-kirbys-new-forward-throw.412362/ this could work
http://smashboards.com/threads/kirbys-toy-box-kirby-moveset-at-competitive-discussion.369255/ or this one, or even this thread

 

[SapphSabre777]

Guys, I forgot to post the combos and findings. I'm so sorry for forgetting I'm a terrible Kirby.

Anyways, once I get done with my studies for the weekend, I'll transfer my Excel file to a Google thing-a-ma-bob for you all to see. I've been doing a lot of lab work in regards to the new F-Throw, and found things because of it. I have held onto this to find new stuff for too long! Oh, and feel free to ask questions.

EDIT: http://tinyurl.com/o33f7tw A preliminary list, but here you guys go! Ignore the side notes, that's just references to myself and my training. (Sorry, there was a problem with the old link, forgot to turn sharing on. THIS should work.)

 

[Pixel_]

Is every character able to grab Kirby once he transforms back from a rock?

I'm thinking about making into a thread if there's exceptions.

 

[Iceweasel]

Is every character able to grab Kirby once he transforms back from a rock?

I'm thinking about making into a thread if there's exceptions.

Link, Roy, and Lucina can. It's been awhile since I played Fox, but I think he could too.

 

[T Luthor]

I have difficulty with Wario and Mega-man the most, Wario's forward smash catch's me off guard at the weirdest moments and mega-man applies a lot of pressure with his projectiles. What advice would you offer to deal with this, or should I pick up a pocket character to deal with this, Lately I've wanted to work on a Roy, would he be a good sub???

 

[Pixel_]

Link, Roy, and Lucina can. It's been awhile since I played Fox, but I think he could too.

Ah, worded it wrong.
Are there any characters that can't grab Kirby after he transforms back?