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Q&A Kirby's Pondering Curse - Kirby Q&A/FAQ/Directory [CHECK HERE BEFORE MAKING A NEW THREAD]

Agent Emerald

Smash Journeyman
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Oct 1, 2014
Messages
243
No I don't! http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/ will have the info... someday! Maybe! Considering every character except Kirby and Villager is on there. And Kirby will be last because reasons.
Funny you should say that

Kurogamehammer said:
12/10/2015: Villager's data has been added!

Also, how can I implementy RAR up airs and bairs into my play? I feel my Kirby play is starting to plateau, and adding these options could really help me get better.
 
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KenMeister

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How would you guys mix up safer approaches? I'm starting to realize at high levels of play that every time I SH an aerial I get my landing stuffed or get outmatched in the air. People tell me to stay grounded more, but I feel it's too predictable. Help?
 

Ansou

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Do you all have a thread for customs at all? I didn't see one on the directory or forums page. If there isn't then may I suggest making one? I know custom tournaments are practically dead so I'd understand if you didn't or put it on the back burner or what have you lol. I'm going to a pretty big customs tournament in January and I hear that Kirby is better with them so I'd like to bring him out if there's a match I can't win with Samus. Just a thought :)
We do have a thread for it! It hasn't had much discussion in a while, but the Official Custom Moveset Project will have an update soon, so the discussion will be back.

How would you guys mix up safer approaches? I'm starting to realize at high levels of play that every time I SH an aerial I get my landing stuffed or get outmatched in the air. People tell me to stay grounded more, but I feel it's too predictable. Help?
What kind of approaches are you using? F-Air is probably the most safe as a poking tool as you shouldn't get punished for it that often if you space it. If you're using D-Air as an approach, then I completely understand why your landings are getting stuffed. I usually use D-Air as a mixup/punish option. Mixing up D-Air with HUP-cancel -> Shield could be useful if your opponent tries to throw out a Smash attack at you. Or you can just bait them by using another jump and then punish afterwards.

Actually, I've started to play more grounded recently. You may think that it's predictable, but using a tilt is usually faster and less predictable than short hopping into an aerial and you and you can even mix up a D-Tilt with a Grab against Shield or N-Air against Spotdodge. Also, if you feel like practising your tech skill, I recommend using extended dash dances combined with perfect pivots. It will make your ground game a lot less predictable. It's hard to master though... Basically, I would mostly use jumps for baits and mixups, but it depends a lot on the matchup.
 

KirbySquad101

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 7, 2015
Messages
927
We do have a thread for it! It hasn't had much discussion in a while, but the Official Custom Moveset Project will have an update soon, so the discussion will be back.


What kind of approaches are you using? F-Air is probably the most safe as a poking tool as you shouldn't get punished for it that often if you space it. If you're using D-Air as an approach, then I completely understand why your landings are getting stuffed. I usually use D-Air as a mixup/punish option. Mixing up D-Air with HUP-cancel -> Shield could be useful if your opponent tries to throw out a Smash attack at you. Or you can just bait them by using another jump and then punish afterwards.

Actually, I've started to play more grounded recently. You may think that it's predictable, but using a tilt is usually faster and less predictable than short hopping into an aerial and you and you can even mix up a D-Tilt with a Grab against Shield or N-Air against Spotdodge. Also, if you feel like practising your tech skill, I recommend using extended dash dances combined with perfect pivots. It will make your ground game a lot less predictable. It's hard to master though... Basically, I would mostly use jumps for baits and mixups, but it depends a lot on the matchup.
He's not a very good player with Kirby, but I noticed AceStar actually getting a lot of mileage out of fast fall U-Air as an approaching tool.

I do find Kirby's tilts underrated and good approaching tools; F-Tilt doesn't have much going for it as a combo starter, but it is a really good spacing tool thanks to its quick start-up and somewhat disjointed range, along with D-Tilt.

Jump bait is DEFINITELY something you want to use with Kirby, especially when most opponent's expect you to end with a D-Air.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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What are Kirby combo options after fthrow ?when does it stop working? What's the best route to take after a fthrow?

My training dummy is sheik. Thanks in advanced.
 
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T Luthor

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Jul 24, 2015
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Is there some one who can give me a link to a diagram of Final cutter showing where the spike hitbox is, or someone who can describe it, I really want to experiment with it to try and find set-up's or to know where to use it. It's one of Kirby's best disrespect moments, when you spike someone trying to recover.
 

KenMeister

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Is there some one who can give me a link to a diagram of Final cutter showing where the spike hitbox is, or someone who can describe it, I really want to experiment with it to try and find set-up's or to know where to use it. It's one of Kirby's best disrespect moments, when you spike someone trying to recover.
I think the spike hitbox comes up the moment Kirby falls with the cutter. I know I've landed it a few times. Haha
 

T Luthor

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I think the spike hitbox comes up the moment Kirby falls with the cutter. I know I've landed it a few times. Haha
Ye, I think the best way to hit it, is to approach the ledge while falling with the blade, or if you're hit while in the falling animation then the opponent will be spiked.
 

NotAsian

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 19, 2015
Messages
205
Hey guys just wondering is there any purpose to being able to angle f tilt, I think low angled f tilt can also trip like down tilt and hit on the ledge. Usually upward angled attacks send the opponent farther and downward hits on ledge, and for little mac breaks shields
 

TimG57867

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 27, 2015
Messages
511
Hey guys just wondering is there any purpose to being able to angle f tilt, I think low angled f tilt can also trip like down tilt and hit on the ledge. Usually upward angled attacks send the opponent farther and downward hits on ledge, and for little mac breaks shields
Honestly, I just angle F-Tilt depending on where my opponent might be. I angle down for the ledge like you said but often I feel D-Tilt does what a downward F-Tilt will do just as well or better. I feel F-Tilt mostly serves as a spacing tool and a panic option if you flubbed a trick and worried you'll eat a hard punish. Given its speed, I think it's mostly safe on shield when spaced right.
 
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Komota

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
7
TimG57867 said:
Honestly, I just angle F-Tilt depending on where my opponent might be. I angle down for the ledge like you said but often I feel D-Tilt does what a downward F-Tilt will do just as well or better. I feel F-Tilt mostly serves as a spacing tool and a panic option if you flubbed a trick and worried you'll eat a hard punish. Given its speed, I think it's mostly safe on shield when spaced right.
A situation where Ftilt would be more useful than Dtilt would be if you're near the edge of the stage trying to get them offstage and with the 50 frames of ledge denial. If they trip when you use Dtilt I'm pretty sure the 50 frames don't come into effect, whereas Ftilt has low enough knockback that it will not send them into tumble until higher percents, (keeping the 50 frames of ledge denial,) without the chance that they'll trip coming into play.
 
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GhettoNinja

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Is there a thread with Kirby's kill throw percentages?
Not really. Back throw kills towards 120% on average at ledge. Up Throw most likely won't kill anyone that isn't like Mewtwo or Jiggs below 170 unless you're abusing the platforms in DH and DL64
 

Funkermonster

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Just wondering... Is your Dair safe on block as of the shieldstun patch? And when safeguarding , what can I do to Kirbies who like to recover low with Upb? Can I challenge Final Cutter or hit him out of it?
 

BoxedOccaBerrys

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Just wondering... Is your Dair safe on block as of the shieldstun patch? And when safeguarding , what can I do to Kirbies who like to recover low with Upb? Can I challenge Final Cutter or hit him out of it?
Dair is safe i believe on shield, you should just let them get used to recovering low, dont challenge the final cutter, it has a pretty nice thing of damage, i personally (i always find Kirby when i play greninja) use Greninja's hydro pump, or with all characters, or just stage spike them with an aerial, or push them with a wind/water-box.
 

quickbeam2

Smash Rookie
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Oct 28, 2015
Messages
14
dair is not safe on shield though it is safer when landing behind and challenging the start up of final cutter is a good idea as it has a fairly long start up time
 

Phan7om

ドリームランドの悪夢
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Just wondering... Is your Dair safe on block as of the shieldstun patch? And when safeguarding , what can I do to Kirbies who like to recover low with Upb? Can I challenge Final Cutter or hit him out of it?
Final cutter does only has a hitbox going up for like a few frames, during the majority of it its easy to intercept with an aerial or whatever. This is something I dont see any player taking advantage of except for ssb64 players lol.
 

Phan7om

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What are kirby's ledge coverage options?
Do you mean when they are on the ledge, or when they are trying to get to the ledge?

If you mean on the ledge, Dair at a specific time will cover ledge jump, and regular get up. If you confirm it early enough, you can drag them offstage with it and fastfall it into footstool.

There is a few traps you can do once you condition them to avoid your ledge trump, it just requires quick reactions.

If they expect the trump, all they can do is buffer jump, get up attack; but they have to do this all immediately, which im sure we all know. Most people though dont buffer get up attack because its too risky, and depending on their habits you can almost usually tell if they like to ledge jump or roll on more often.

Taking advantage of this you can position yourself correctly, and either Dtilt twice or Dtilt once and shield briefly, with the right timing this covers ledge jump and some character's get up attack. All they can do is roll on, so if you Dtilted twice and they didnt get hit run back and immediately punish, if you shielded you can jump back oos and punish.

This 2nd one doesnt cover get up attack. You briefly run up to the ledge when they grab it to fake a trump, but before you fall off do a RAR SHFF autocanceled Bair drifting into the stage. With the right timing the Bair hits their jump from the ledge and if they roll on you are in position to grab them or whatever.

If they dont expect the ledge trump you can do the very generic trap that every character can do, which is shielding right in front of the ledge, shield grabbing their get up attack or neutral get up, reacting to roll in, and Nairing/Dairing or whatever oos to cover ledge jump.

If you meant getting to the ledge, a well timed Dair where the ledge is works well depending on the character. It covers the 2 frame ledge snap. Dair is also just a good edgeguarding move in general.

A lot of players/characters airdodge pass the ledge when recovering low in todays meta and barely anyone punishes it so it will keep being done. So you could always threaten with Bair, wait until they airdodge which they likely will do, and punish with Dair to Footstool and if they still have their jump you can Dair again to cover it which kills them at whatever % they are at.
 
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nikoryan

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
36
Do you mean when they are on the ledge, or when they are trying to get to the ledge?

If you mean on the ledge, Dair at a specific time will cover ledge jump, and regular get up. If you confirm it early enough, you can drag them offstage with it and fastfall it into footstool.

There is a few traps you can do once you condition them to avoid your ledge trump, it just requires quick reactions.

If they expect the trump, all they can do is buffer jump, get up attack; but they have to do this all immediately, which im sure we all know. Most people though dont buffer get up attack because its too risky, and depending on their habits you can almost usually tell if they like to ledge jump or roll on more often.

Taking advantage of this you can position yourself correctly, and either Dtilt twice or Dtilt once and shield briefly, with the right timing this covers ledge jump and some character's get up attack. All they can do is roll on, so if you Dtilted twice and they didnt get hit run back and immediately punish, if you shielded you can jump back oos and punish.

This 2nd one doesnt cover get up attack. You briefly run up to the ledge when they grab it to fake a trump, but before you fall off do a RAR SHFF autocanceled Bair drifting into the stage. With the right timing the Bair hits their jump from the ledge and if they roll on you are in position to grab them or whatever.

If they dont expect the ledge trump you can do the very generic trap that every character can do, which is shielding right in front of the ledge, shield grabbing their get up attack or neutral get up, reacting to roll in, and Nairing/Dairing or whatever oos to cover ledge jump.

If you meant getting to the ledge, a well timed Dair where the ledge is works well depending on the character. It covers the 2 frame ledge snap. Dair is also just a good edgeguarding move in general.

A lot of players/characters airdodge pass the ledge when recovering low in todays meta and barely anyone punishes it so it will keep being done. So you could always threaten with Bair, wait until they airdodge which they likely will do, and punish with Dair to Footstool and if they still have their jump you can Dair again to cover it which kills them at whatever % they are at.
Those are really good options on the ledge. Another thing I do is a full hop properly spaced nair.
I find this to cover a lot of options. If they jump immediately when they're getting off the ledge, the initial and strong hits of nair knocks them away from the stage giving you stage control and more edge guarding opportunities. If they do a get up attack/normal get up, I fastfall my nair and the later/weaker hits of nair slightly knock them off. Sometimes, I can follow up with a dtilt if I am are close enough to them. If they decide to roll and I react quick enough, I can fastfall my nair towards them (towards the center of the stage) and follow up with a grab to whatever. The only thing this doesn't seem to cover is when the opponent just waits at the ledge or when they let go of the ledge, double jump, and throw out an attack or airdodge.

Holding jab on the ledge also seems to be a good way to cover normal get ups and if they decide to let go and double jump back onto the stage. It doesn't beat out get up attack though so I would use it carefully. Sometimes, you can condition your opponent to roll by holding jab and then punish with a grab or a smash attack even.
 

Mega-Spider

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With Kirby's U-Throw being buffed, where do you guys believe Kirby stands compared to the rest of the cast? I still think he's a direct mid tier character, since he still has issues approaching, which can be the end of Kirby in some match ups (Rosalina in particular). With the buff to his U-Throw, Kirby could potentially be a high mid tier character.
 

WalrusBiscuit

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Ok so Im having a money match against a kirby player in my local scene real soon. I would like to know what to do in this matchup. He will be using customs 3231. Oh Im using Yoshi btw.
 

MrMFC

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Ok so Im having a money match against a kirby player in my local scene real soon. I would like to know what to do in this matchup. He will be using customs 3231. Oh Im using Yoshi btw.
Go to the yoshi boards then, we will not betray our Kirby players, especially not when it's a yoshi :p


Just saying but the MU should be easy af for you, it's kirby's second worst MU
 

WalrusBiscuit

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Go to the yoshi boards then, we will not betray our Kirby players, especially not when it's a yoshi :p


Just saying but the MU should be easy af for you, it's kirby's second worst MU


I see people go on other characters q&a threads asking for advice in the mu and people help them out. Guess youre not a nice guy.
 

t!MmY

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I would like to know what to do in this matchup.
Don't mind the above guys. The forums are a great place to ask for help, and objectively speaking help should be given to anyone asking for it, though it makes sense that fans of Kirby would rather see the Kirby player win. XD

Do you have any specific questions, or are you just looking for general advice? I don't really have much general advice on the Yoshi side of things. It seems to me like Yoshi can just play his usual game vs Kirby and profit. It's straight-forward and not a tricky match-up at all.
 
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WalrusBiscuit

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Don't mind the above guys. The forums are a great place to ask for help, and objectively speaking help should be given to anyone asking for it, though it makes sense that fans of Kirby would rather see the Kirby player win. XD

Do you have any specific questions, or are you just looking for general advice? I don't really have much general advice to on the Yoshi side of things. It seems to me like Yoshi can just play his usual game vs Kirby and profit. It's straight-forward and not a tricky match-up at all.
Its not as problematic right now, Ive started beating the Kirby player in friendlies more so its getting better. The Kirby that I was talking about was this dbag Gurre. :3
 

Parisienne

Umbran Witch
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Dec 30, 2015
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I'm hating Kirby vs Toon Link right now. It's winnable, just seems like a lot of work for me.
Been contemplating use of secondaries for certain matchups with good zoning and disjointed hitboxes. Lucas seems like another pain. Suggestions and reasonings?
 

DERPFISHsaysNO

Smash Cadet
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Oct 13, 2015
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West Point, MS
I need help to beat little mac
he is just too ****ing fast lol
When it comes to Little Mac, inhale and grab. Also try to lure him into unsafe punishes. As he suffers horribly in the air, if you can pop him up with up tilt or an aerial, your priority should be to fluster him by keeping him airborne longer, and push him towards the edge in the process.
 

DERPFISHsaysNO

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Ye, I think the best way to hit it, is to approach the ledge while falling with the blade, or if you're hit while in the falling animation then the opponent will be spiked.
I've personally hit it most after landing an offstage down air. They will usually attempt to snipe the ledge with their recovery, so I place the flipping animation at the top of final cutter at the ledge, and down they go!
 

Asdioh

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Since Rosalina's an important matchup to learn, I figured I'd test out exactly which moves send Luma flying when it's at full health, and just how far each move actually sends it. For those that don't know, if you knock Rosalina's Luma away, it starts tumbling in the air, and only stops when it lands. If it's tumbling offstage, it will fall to its death every time. Even if it's not offstage, sending it into tumble is often useful, since it separates Luma from Rosalina, and you might have another chance to knock it away.

I used Omega Wrecking Crew to measure. The stage is divided into 12 squares.

Fsmash: 3 squares
Upsmash: 1 square, only when sweetspotted
Dsmash: 1 square
Jab finisher: almost 5 squares
Dash attack: about 3 squares. starting DA point blank will cause Kirby to only hit Luma with a couple weak hits and then pass by harmlessly, starting it from a medium-shortish distance causes the final hit to send Luma behind Kirby, which can be useful if you use it at the ledge.
Starshot: 4 squares.
Swallow: about 3 squares, the only way I can get this to hit is by jumping forward+swallowing in the air. It hits Luma behind where Kirby is going.
Stone: 2 squares
Final Cutter (full combo): 1.5 squares
Hammer (no charge): almost 4 squares
Hammer (fully charged): 10 squares
Luma Shot (brief charge): 2-2.5 squares
Luma Shot (full charge): 4 squares

Notes: Nothing else will send Luma into tumble if you haven't hit it previously. This includes uncharged Luma Shot. Dtilt kind of locks Luma in place, but after 4 Dtilts, Kirby gets pushed back a bit, so be aware of that. At higher percents, stuff like Uptilt->Bair combos on Luma, sending it a decent distance away, but it's pretty clear that killing Luma immediately is extremely important against Rosalina.

In order of how useful these are, I'd say Jab and Dash Attack are the most useful for getting rid of Luma. Luma Shot is also very good, if you have her power. Inhale->Jump forward->Swallow will cause Luma to get hit by the Swallow hitbox, but it sends it flying backwards. If you Inhale Rosalina as a ledge stand option, it might be viable to KO Luma this way by turning around and then jumping toward the stage before using Swallow.
Dash Attack and Jab are punishable if you hit Luma but Rosalina is shielding, but it's usually worth it, because Rosalina won't get a big punish on you, but KOing her Luma will be bad for her.
 

TheRabidChipmunk

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 23, 2015
Messages
27
Hey guys, I'm new here and new to Kirby. I'm working on my fundamentals, so I was wondering how should Kirby's neutral game be played? I tend to space out opponents with short hopped fairs and bairs, but I'm not sure if these are safe moves in the neutral. Can anyone recommend any players or videos that highlight good neutral play from Kirby?
 

Dessa

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Hey guys, I'm new here and new to Kirby. I'm working on my fundamentals, so I was wondering how should Kirby's neutral game be played? I tend to space out opponents with short hopped fairs and bairs, but I'm not sure if these are safe moves in the neutral. Can anyone recommend any players or videos that highlight good neutral play from Kirby?
Go to the video thread and seek out Mike Kirby.

But Kirby's weak in the neutral overall, so you've got a lot of work to put in there.
 

T Luthor

Smash Cadet
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Jul 24, 2015
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Birmingham
Yes, and then I try to main others and nobody feels as good as Kirby does. I didn't choose Kirby. He chose me.
I'm the exact same, exact same feeling. Guess I'll try a new form of play or a new style, maybe a different colour.
 
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