KirbyKaze's Sheik MU Guide - POSTPONED INDEFINITELY

[hectohertz]

Usmash can work if they are at right percents then you 0 death them
you have u use it via read though (obviously)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJuEs4tC_FM 4:40

the crowd went ****ing CRAZY when he got that edgeguard, really wish the commentary from that tournament didn't get corrupted/lost/eaten?




so what are people's preferred punishes to missed techs (on reaction)

 

[gm jack]

Depends on the character and the situation. If they haven't proven themselves capable of SDIing it, jab resets lead to a lot. Sometimes just tilting them to try and start a combo or dsmashing to send them off stage can be good.

If they are on a platform above you, you can do so much to cover options/bait their reaction it's silly.

 

[Kaffei]

the crowd went ****ing CRAZY when he got that edgeguard, really wish the commentary from that tournament didn't get corrupted/lost/eaten?




so what are people's preferred punishes to missed techs (on reaction)

If they're not on platform and if they're low enough % then I like to jab reset into grab cus grabs are sexy and sometimes u can 0 death off one. But like gm jack said if they know how to sdi the jab id rather do like double jab or jab dsmash i dunno i wish kk wasnt banned lol.
If they're not on platform and if they're higher % then I like to ftilt into grab or fair depending on if the fair will send them a good distance off stage
If they're on a platform u can just waveland onto it and shield to cover like all their get up options or u can just wait and uair combo idk just get them off stage or do **** load of damage

 

[Van.]

Drephens back and posting like a BOSS

are you actually going to go to tournaments drephen? or just ****in around on the boards?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

drephen, we know you are biased towards dsmash

 

[Drephen]

Drephens back and posting like a BOSS

are you actually going to go to tournaments drephen? or just ****in around on the boards?

The announcing of FC is motivating me to get back into competitive smash. So i will prolly try and go to some regional tournies before august comes around.

also, no one should probably take advice from me, considering i havent changed my own metagame since 2005 lol

 

[Strong Badam]

all hail the mighty drew

and so he said unto his followers "Thou shalt downsmash"

 

[bubbaking]

i dunno i wish kk wasnt banned lol.

How was KK banned? :/

 

[Teczer0]

He asked me to ban him

 

[bubbaking]

Oh, right, I remember that. No offense intended, but I think he has to cut some of us some slack. I understand that it gets frustrating being asked some dumb Qs or reading things that are just...noob-ish, but as one of the best, you've gotta get used to it. Anyway, I hope he comes back sometime. I was looking forward to those MU guides of his...... (._.)

 

[Kaffei]

Oh, right, I remember that. No offense intended, but I think he has to cut some of us some slack. I understand that it gets frustrating being asked some dumb Qs or reading things that are just...noob-ish, but as one of the best, you've gotta get used to it. Anyway, I hope he comes back sometime. I was looking forward to those MU guides of his...... (._.)

I don't think that's exactly the case

 

[MaskedMarth]

I think when you have low-level questions like whether you need to wavedash, though, you don't need to consult the very best players to get a good response. We have this great resource--a top level player willing to impart his wisdom--so let's not waste it on the basic stuff.

Shame about KK's self-exile. I was really enjoying this thread.

 

[Teczer0]

He's not permanently gone.....

He's gonna be unbanned lol

No need to act like this is the end.

Also social thread this >;[

 

[Bl@ckChris]

When fighting falco, do you tend to use platforms and abuse the needle angle, or stay grounded and try to cc things more? The former works for me until they get under my needle angle and shine me from below.

 

[Strong Badam]

Oh, right, I remember that. No offense intended, but I think he has to cut some of us some slack. I understand that it gets frustrating being asked some dumb Qs or reading things that are just...noob-ish, but as one of the best, you've gotta get used to it. Anyway, I hope he comes back sometime. I was looking forward to those MU guides of his...... (._.)

you should stop posting in his thread then

 

[Bing]

Kk's coming back, he just needed to get away from the boards in general. He doesn't mind helping people, trust me, I ask him **** all the time.

 

[gm jack]

When fighting falco, do you tend to use platforms and abuse the needle angle, or stay grounded and try to cc things more? The former works for me until they get under my needle angle and shine me from below.

You can't really cc falco's stuff very well. However, I try to not let falco get under me, which often mean staying mostly grounded and using her low dash, high sh and power shields to move through the lasers to abuse falco's slow movement.

 

[Drephen]

hey how do you do that double stick tech thingy?

example 4:24 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qffZto0spEQ

 

[Strong Badam]

hold down + in, press r or L. cstick input in same direction would also help. you need to actually crouch (i.e. if the falco dsmashes fast enough it doesn't work)

 

[bubbaking]

When fighting falco, do you tend to use platforms and abuse the needle angle, or stay grounded and try to cc things more? The former works for me until they get under my needle angle and shine me from below.

I actually tend to throw out a lot of aerial needles by full hopping. It's fairly the same height as a platform, so you get the same great angle, and if your needles are fully charged, it combos.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

yeah, but fullhop or platform based, if they get under them, you're still screwed.

 

[silentSWAG]

i just wait on platform and charge some needles. or i try to wd under/ cc the laser then hit falco while he tries to shoot me again

 

[Drephen]

hold down + in, press r or L. cstick input in same direction would also help. you need to actually crouch (i.e. if the falco dsmashes fast enough it doesn't work)

sooo the c-stick isnt necessary but it helps? doesnt make sense

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Cstick overrides ASDI, but doesn't actually add anything on its own. You could use Cstick straight down and DI that would allow you to come in contact with the floor and press L/R and if the conditions are right, you will tech instead of flying away

 

[silentSWAG]

i have it in muscle memory to di in,cc, tech and also mash c stick. works

 

[joejoe22802]

So I can't beat good Marths and jiggs. I'm used to playing fast fallers than don't have long extended hit boxes and it really ****s up my spacing and knowing when it's safe to attack. Any tips?


Also how do you play against a fox that loves to dash dance, never misses a shine after aerial, loves to trade and is willin to laser spam?

 

[Bing]

For the marth MU Im pretty sure it just comes down to a lot of cc downsmash/grabs etc.
Basically just work on spacing. A lot of Marth's like approaching with fair, especially late hit fair, so yeah. I think d-tilt - f-tilt works well.. I dunno.. I dont main sheik, but I like the MU in friendlies XD

For Puff I think its just a lot of downsmash and shffld fairs.

Watch KK's set vs Hbox at Apex WB. Check SummonedFists Youtube channel, its recorded on a camera but you can still get the gist of it.

 

[bubbaking]

i just wait on platform and charge some needles. or i try to wd under/ cc the laser then hit falco while he tries to shoot me again

If Falco messes up the height of his laserhops, you can also run under them.

So I can't beat good Marths and jiggs. I'm used to playing fast fallers than don't have long extended hit boxes and it really ****s up my spacing and knowing when it's safe to attack. Any tips?


Also how do you play against a fox that loves to dash dance, never misses a shine after aerial, loves to trade and is willin to laser spam?

Marth is just a matter of spacing and sometimes CCing some attacks. Punish his lag w/ dash attack, tilts, and grabs.

Jiggs is kinda weird. As Bing said, look at KK's Winners set against HBox at Apex. You might also wanna check out his Losers set, but he lost that one, so I dunno... Basically, I like to zone with bair and fair against her. Grabs always combo into uair or fair. Use needles, too. Needles give a good amount of time for hit-confirmation and they often combo into grab, ftilt, or dash attack. Be wary of this: Jiggs can trade with or beat out all of Sheiks aerials. Also, Jiggs can CC almost all of Sheik's grounded moves and can punish most of them with rest.

As for Fox, do NOT just throw out moves hoping they'll hit. That's what DDing Foxes want you to do. Their DDing lets them maintain good spacing with pinpoint precision while retaining the option to punish you once they get the chance. Frantic dash attacks and dsmashes will only get you punished. Throw out needles and try to hit confirm them into stuff. You can also try to poke in with an ftilt and dtilt now and then, but a lot of the time, you're gonna be dashing around as well. Also make sure to utilize your AC fairs. If you observe that they like to shield when you aerial at them, you can try AC fair>grab. If the Fox is consistent with his shines, then don't try to shield-grab him after his aerials. In fact, you probably shouldn't be shielding much around him at all. Your protection is your mobility. Stay on the move. If you shield their shine, nair or WD oos. Laser spamming shouldn't be too much of an issue, and neither should trading.....unless it's usmash. @_@

For Puff I think its just a lot of downsmash and shffld fairs.

Be wary about using dsmash much. Puff can CC it and rest Shiek out of it. It's happened to me...

 

[Bing]

If Falco messes up the height of his laserhops, you can also run under them.



Marth is just a matter of spacing and sometimes CCing some attacks. Punish his lag w/ dash attack, tilts, and grabs.

Jiggs is kinda weird. As Bing said, look at KK's Winners set against HBox at Apex. You might also wanna check out his Losers set, but he lost that one, so I dunno... Basically, I like to zone with bair and fair against her. Grabs always combo into uair or fair. Use needles, too. Needles give a good amount of time for hit-confirmation and they often combo into grab, ftilt, or dash attack. Be wary of this: Jiggs can trade with or beat out all of Sheiks aerials. Also, Jiggs can CC almost all of Sheik's grounded moves and can punish most of them with rest.

As for Fox, do NOT just throw out moves hoping they'll hit. That's what DDing Foxes want you to do. Their DDing lets them maintain good spacing with pinpoint precision while retaining the option to punish you once they get the chance. Frantic dash attacks and dsmashes will only get you punished. Throw out needles and try to hit confirm them into stuff. You can also try to poke in with an ftilt and dtilt now and then, but a lot of the time, you're gonna be dashing around as well. Also make sure to utilize your AC fairs. If you observe that they like to shield when you aerial at them, you can try AC fair>grab. If the Fox is consistent with his shines, then don't try to shield-grab him after his aerials. In fact, you probably shouldn't be shielding much around him at all. Your protection is your mobility. Stay on the move. If you shield their shine, nair or WD oos. Laser spamming shouldn't be too much of an issue, and neither should trading.....unless it's usmash. @_@



Be wary about using dsmash much. Puff can CC it and rest Shiek out of it. It's happened to me...

I dont feel like breaking this up.

Against Fox, Im pretty sure that ccing is also decent but yes, mobility and keeping on the move is the best option.

Needles are great vs puff, especially when shes off stage going to the ledge, single needles to cause a disruption, then you can punish when they get close.

And about d-smash. Just d-smash when shes in air, no worries about cc there.(Basically at worst you'll trade.

 

[unknown522]

*reads thread*. *bangs head on desk*

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Yeah unknown, I haven't even been playing sheik long, and I had a pretty similar reaction.

I sincerely miss kk...

 

[Bing]

Unknown if you're trolling smashboards why you at a desk? Or did you get up,move to a desk, then facedesk?

 

[bubbaking]

May I be told what exactly is wrong with our advice? I'll admit, I'm not the best or even a "good" Sheik player, but I said what I reasonably believe is true. I also think Bing's advice was pretty solid as well. Of course, it would really be nice if KK simply brought himself out of exile and finished those MU threads he was working on. :/

Unknown if you're trolling smashboards why you at a desk? Or did you get up,move to a desk, then facedesk?

^ Top tier.

 

[Teczer0]

So I can't beat good Marths and jiggs. I'm used to playing fast fallers than don't have long extended hit boxes and it really ****s up my spacing and knowing when it's safe to attack. Any tips?


Also how do you play against a fox that loves to dash dance, never misses a shine after aerial, loves to trade and is willin to laser spam?

Try to space yourself about 1 marth fsmash length away at all times.

Its safe to attack when marth tries to hit you, miss an attack on you, or is in the air. If he's in the air though, wait for him to whiff something he'll probably hope you just run into his stuff or do a simple move like ftilt that doesn't force you to commit to an attack.

Play defensive and wait for one of those to happen. It sounds like its restrictive but really, sheik is really good at forcing other characters with no projectiles to do things.

For Fox, aerial shine and DD camping is a very basic strategy vs sheik, you're definitely going to see it a lot. If the fox laser camps you, slowly creep up and close the space and push him to the edge walk if you have to. The biggest thing in this situation is positioning, you have invade his space while still being in a position to counterattack. If you read a nair you can try to ftilt it though I don't recommend it too much, the timing is pretty hard. Look for patterns as they jump to a platform to get away and match it with a SH fair under the platform. Once you see something more exploitable go for the punish. Just don't dash attack too much, CC dsmash is a good option too, it can push them off stage a lot. If you see FH dairs a lot WD back and ftilt or uptilt and yea.

 

[silentSWAG]

full hop needles are great against marth's spacing

i like to do standing needles/ spam dsmash occasionally against fox to bait a full hop dair which can be countered with sh baired or full hop nair or even fair.( uptilt is great too)

bair is my favorite option for platform camping and i try not to approach someone who isnt approaching me it turns the tables sometimes, doing a lot of wd back and needles bait. and you can punish lasers if you predict them.

 

[Teczer0]

Personally, I don't like to do FH needles, unless I"m gonna land on a platform against Marth. It just feels like a punishable tactic *shrugs*

lol at camping them back xD, thats true it does work sometimes. I'm too impatient for that strategy unfortunately.

 

[joejoe22802]

^ Lol
But thanks guys I really appreciate the quick advice from all of you. Really makes me think the Sheik boards aren't just crap... at least for a second haha. But yeah my question probably seems very scrubbish, I'm just used to playing technical spacies and trying to play sheik like a spacie, It just doesn't really always translate in tournament and I need to get a reminder of what does.

Also who's up to talk smash on aim or fb while watching videos. Hit me up.

 

[darkatma]

hey how do you do that double stick tech thingy?

example 4:24 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qffZto0spEQ

I personally C stick down, DI down and in. Then hit L right before the hit to tech it.

Also @ strongbad, sheik is in a natural crouch when she lands from the upB

 

[Teczer0]

tbh, I think most of us expect KK to answer questions and only care about his responses. Which is silly since there are plenty of other sheik mains that know plenty of stuff.

 

[joejoe22802]

Yeah I agree. But that's probably one of the reasons people get salty, and suck.