KirbyKaze's Sheik MU Guide - POSTPONED INDEFINITELY

[KirbyKaze]

At certain ranges I think she can.

 

[bubbaking]

So, in Sheik dittos, a crouching Sheik has great priority in the RPS system?

 

[Strong Badam]

crouching Sheik hidden chaingrab

 

[bubbaking]

Cshc?!? :o

 

[KirbyKaze]

CSHCG

And... kind of. I dunno. She has counters to her own crouch (still dash grabbable, needles --> grab is a combo, etc) but it's a pretty good thing to start thinking about. Protecting yourself from stationary grabs is really more valuable than you might think... especially against shielding opponents.

 

[Kaffei]

fair on shield > dash out > bait grab oos > dash back in grab

^ Is this legit, KK? o.O

 

[Teczer0]

I do that actually a lot lol.

Opponents usually sit in their shield more often than not actually.

/not kk

 

[KirbyKaze]

I use that frequently.

 

[Kaffei]

yay for sheik =D

 

[Plairnkk]

i am soooo back

 

[Kaffei]

i am soooo back

helooooooooooooo

 

[Strong Badam]

pound 6 babyy!!

 

[Plairnkk]

LOOOL **** strongbad

kk, try to come to that cival war tourney thing, unknown said hes gonna come!!!

sheikpartay

 

[bubbaking]

Since we were on the topic of ducking grabs, rather than dash out to bait the shieldgrab, couldn't we just crouch after fair and then grab to punish? If they tried something else, we could dtilt (or dsmash).

 

[KirbyKaze]

LOOOL **** strongbad

kk, try to come to that cival war tourney thing, unknown said hes gonna come!!!

sheikpartay

Only if you and Tope agree to teach me how to fight low tiers

 

[bubbaking]

You win. That is all...

 

[Strong Badam]

Since we were on the topic of ducking grabs, rather than dash out to bait the shieldgrab, couldn't we just crouch after fair and then grab to punish? If they tried something else, we could dtilt (or dsmash).

Problem is that you don't always dodge a grab via crouching. Depends on MU

 

[Tope]

Problem is that you don't always dodge a grab via crouching. Depends on MU

I believe he means in a sheik ditto.

 

[bubbaking]

^^^indeed...

 

[KirbyKaze]

You win. That is all...

never post in my thread again plz

 

[Bl@ckChris]

so i played a lot of sheik today. i...really enjoyed it. a few things have come up though.

how good is nair oos, really? i'm pretty sure i may not be getting it out fast enough, but i feel like the falcos on peepee's thread complain about it a lot. i'd like to get you guys' opinion on it.

sh needle cancel fair looks cool. i can't think of any time the needle cancel looks scary enough for it to be useful though.

i got pretty good at the shino stall with the hitbox at the edge. frustrated the hell out of my opponents. sooo safe lol. still got a few too many zeldas though -_-

real question though, vs marth, when i get a grab at low percent, i can cg him for a little while, but then i feel as if i need to tilt around 20ish percent and then he gets away after the tilt. does the cg last longer than i'm giving it credit for, and if not, should i proceed in a manner that says "wait for the move he'll do since he's afraid and then grab him again"?

 

[KirbyKaze]

question about throw comboing Marth

 

[Kaffei]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOoOL

 

[Bl@ckChris]

..i'm sorry.

i'll just get more experience, and things should work itself out.

*slinks into a dark corner*

edit: or i'll check the ****ing guide about throwing marth. **** i'm ******** lol.

 

[KirbyKaze]

It's K we're all friends here =D

 

[bubbaking]

never post in my thread again plz

............but I was joking... ((( Anyway, I just looked up the phrase "That is all" in urban dictionary and I honestly did not know that it means what it does before. I apologize if it seemed like I was ridiculing your comment or something along those lines.

 

[bubbaking]

how good is nair oos, really? i'm pretty sure i may not be getting it out fast enough, but i feel like the falcos on peepee's thread complain about it a lot. i'd like to get you guys' opinion on it.

Nair oos is pretty darn good, imo. You can bust it out really early to try to stuff one of your opponent's SHFFL'd aerials or you can bust it out really late, when you're deep in his shield. It has pretty low lag, so it's decently safe.

sh needle cancel fair looks cool. i can't think of any time the needle cancel looks scary enough for it to be useful though.

Tbh, I really like reverse needle cancel>bair. It lets me space/zone while running and jumping forwards and all that.

real question though, vs marth, when i get a grab at low percent, i can cg him for a little while, but then i feel as if i need to tilt around 20ish percent and then he gets away after the tilt. does the cg last longer than i'm giving it credit for, and if not, should i proceed in a manner that says "wait for the move he'll do since he's afraid and then grab him again"?

Not exactly sure how long the CG lasts, but generally I just do one regrab and then I combo with whatever feels right regarding the DI the opponent is using. Ftilt>fair/uair often works. At mid to high %'s, I believe dthrow combos directly into fair/uair. Sometimes, I can manage to get a usmash on him if he DI's right on top of me. Everytime I say fair/uair, it means that your choice is dependent on your opponent's DI, but you're pretty much guaranteed to land one of those two attacks. If he DI's behind you, you should be able to get uair on him, but if you're really unsure and don't want to take chances, you can just use bair. Oh, and every time you can use fair/uair/bair (every time you combo Marth ), you can also use nair as well. Comboing Marth kinda comes on its own.

 

[KirbyKaze]

nair OOS is ****ing stupid and gay as **** and it's like one of the most ridiculous things in her arsenal (if you can do it properly)

it is so ridiculous that the falcos conspire every few months or so to completely revamp their pressure styles to beat it or remain framesafe so they don't have to deal with it at X percent because being knocked over by an OOS move and dying SUCKS AND THEY HATE IT

needle stores are mostly baits of some kind or to turn yourself around so you can DJ waveland off platform --> bair or whatever crazy crap is appropriate to the situation (or if you just wanna, like, bair)

WHY DID YOU ANSWER HIM ABOUT THE MARTH THROW FORMULA YOU ****ING SCRUB I MADE A THREAD SO THAT QUESTION WOULD NEVER HAVE TO BE ANSWERED AGAIN

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH

IF I WERE A MOD I WOULD INFRACT YOU FOR THAT I'M SO ****ING MAD RIGHT NOW

 

[bubbaking]

.........I was being nice. :/ Tbh, I've never read the OP for the thread on throwing Marth. I kinda just figured out grab combos for Marth on my own... Anyway, I'm sorry, but I didn't know that you didn't want anyone answering that Q.

 

[Strong Badam]

Can we ban bubbaking

 

[KirbyKaze]

This is a matter between Sheik. Begone, low tier!

 

[bubbaking]

...I mean well... :'((

 

[KirbyKaze]

It's cool. I don't actually hate you. I just like directing people to the stickies & OPs & other data archives rather than cluttering the boards with questions that, at one point, were literally asked every two weeks. And then we'd get a massive influx of posts on how much people like to f-tilt --> fair at low percents on Marth even though that's literally the worst thing you can go for (with one or two situations exempted because Marth's dumb like that).

 

[bubbaking]

Point taken (again). It's probably hard maintaining threads for such a popular character who so many people pick up. Never really thought about this before. There must have been enough recurring Q's to drive a reasonable person insane.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Indeed. That's what I kept doing, and it felt like such a waste, but I couldn't quite figure out what else to do, hence the question.

Its a good thread over there.

Random thought from the shower: which hitbox goes lower, dsmash or dtilt? I feel like its dtilt, but I wanted to make sure.

 

[bubbaking]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=299984

 

[Bl@ckChris]

fair auto cancels after 11? aw hael yeah.

and i couldn't really confirm if either one was lower, but i think i'll go with my gut instinct on it.

lol, i think reverse utilt is so close to being solid shield pressure. i need to use that move more. it juggles like a monster.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think down smash goes lower but don't quote me on that.

 

[bubbaking]

Either way, they fulfill different roles. Dtilt usually pops opponents up for combos; thus it is generally a combo starter/extender. Dsmash sends them flying away; therefore, it is pretty much a combo finisher. Dsmash also has that small bit of invincibility that makes it easier to "muscle" it in, whereas dtilt has less lag and seems to be safer overall.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i just wanted to know for edgeguarding. specifically spacie side B. trust me, i've played enough sheiks to know what each move is "for" but if one will catch a lower side B, or catch falcon/ganon trying to up B better, then i know which one to use more often.

edit: somehow i feel like sheiks dtilt is better at shield poking though. but that may mean less that the bottom of the hitbox is lower, and more that the top of the hitbox is lower....