Kirby & The Amazing Guide

[kirbz]

to t!mmy:

the actual color names (according to the game Kirby and the Amazing Mirror) are
Pink
Yellow
Red
Green
Ocean
Chalk

I hope this helps... kind of...

 

[t!MmY]

I took inspiration from more than just Kirby & The Amazing Mirror with the color names. I also looked toward Squeak Squad and also on how the names sounded in a Kirby-theme (thus "Citrus" for the lemony-orangey colors).

One thing interesting I noticed with Kirby Super Star Ultra is that he has the exact colors as the green Kirby color in Brawl when he has the Plasma Hat. So theoretically when you play with green Kirby/green team you're "Plasma Kirby" too.

 

[Asdioh]

It's Hulk Kirby you fool.

Hulk Kirby.

 

[g-regulate]

did you know swallowing DDD, walking off the edge and spamming jump is a guaranteed footstool if they struggle out? pow!!

 

[fromundaman]

That seems to work (not necessarily guaranteed, but good regardless) against most everyone. Still, it's good to know!

 

[WingedKnight]

An excellent guide t!MmY! I haven't been around here in forever, but this is useful for all the extra little tips to make my Kirby even better!

 

[DFat2]

Wow, just noticed T!MmY updated with the Frames of Attacks. Thanks Boi, really appreciated (I know how time consuming it is ).

 

[Aurasmash14]

thanks for the guide. it will be very usefull in teaching my younger sister to play, btw i dont know if this has been said before but the yellow kirby's name is keeby. its on kirby wiki.

 

[UnifiedRebellion]

OMG, Kirby,,, Epic pro.. Great "copy" move, (B) Perfect length in attacks Fsmash Usmash, Eh any smash hah. Also, the multi-hit kicks Sair and Uair Dair Hes just pro. And he can put a challenge for ANY smash character.

 

[AndreVeloso]

This guide is the bible to Kirby players. Great guide and I WILL get better by following this

 

[A1lion835]

Fun fact:

Every time someone chooses kirby, someone is cured of cancer.

 

[IC3R]

Fun fact:

Every time someone chooses kirby, someone is cured of cancer.

Kirby is the Jesus of Brawl~

 

[:mad:]

Kirby is the Jesus of Brawl~

lol. Speaking of which, A1lion is Jewish.
Also, speaking of A1, I had steak tonight. No joke.

So Meta Knight is his daddy?

 

[IC3R]

lol. Speaking of which, A1lion is Jewish.

inb4religiousdiscussion

Also, speaking of A1, I had steak tonight. No joke.

I wish I could've had steak~

So Meta Knight is his daddy?

It's quite possible~

It would explain a lot~

 

[:mad:]

It was actually pretty good. It gave me the incredible ability to play as Sonic, and my Ness was even better.

Kirby was unaffected by this. We need some kind of food meme, it'll probably raise our morale.

 

[A1lion835]

Hm...what food does kirby eat?

I suppose we could eat some Maccaroni Kake and see what happens...

C wut I did thar?

 

[fromundaman]

But... the Tomatoes! The Maximum Tomatoes!

 

[|RK|]

Most of you recognize me by my various handles: 't!mmy' or 't1mmy'. The exclamation point (also known as "Bang!")

tbangmmy???

To bang me? D:

jk T1mmy. Luvs joo. <3

 

[t!MmY]

We all know Kirby eats Maximum Tomatoes and Strawberry Shortcake.

 

[Asdioh]

What are you guys talking about? Kirby loooves watermelons.

...actually, Kirby loves everything (and everyone :D) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhcg823TUbg

I can't find the original upload of that video, I could have sworn it had a LOT more views, maybe it was taken down.

 

[A1lion835]

What are you guys talking about? Kirby loooves watermelons.

...actually, Kirby loves everything (and everyone :D) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhcg823TUbg

I can't find the original upload of that video, I could have sworn it had a LOT more views, maybe it was taken down.

O_o

Let me check something...

yes, it should be physically impossible to eat something larger than your entire body.

 

[fromundaman]

O_o

Let me check something...

yes, it should be physically impossible to eat something larger than your entire body.

But Snakes do it all the time...

Does that mean Snake is a Kirby in disguise?

 

[|RK|]

That and according to SqSq and the anime, Kirby's stomach is a black hole. Plus his mouth is expandable, so. Y'know, I thought of a logical explanation as to why Kirby can fly, based on his body mass and suction, even explaining some of his games' physics! I posted it on KRR (Kirby's Rainbow Resort), though...

 

[A1lion835]

That and according to SqSq and the anime, Kirby's stomach is a black hole. Plus his mouth is expandable, so. Y'know, I thought of a logical explanation as to why Kirby can fly, based on his body mass and suction, even explaining some of his games' physics! I posted it on KRR (Kirby's Rainbow Resort), though...

Hm...that black hole thing is too cool, but it would probably make him implode >.>

Do you remember the explanation/have access to where you posted it?

 

[|RK|]

Wait, not a black hole, but space is inside his stomach. Yeah, that's about right. And I'm looking for the topic now.

EDIT:

Swimming: In Super Star while trying to turn under water, your momentum still continues in the same direction you were going. So if you're close to an enemy and try to turn to avoid them, chances are you'll get dragged along and still hit them.

In Squeak Squad, Kirby turns on a dime under water, and momentum does not continue, instead Kirby halts; you can move in the direction you intended to. Meaning you can avoid the enemy easier.

This is exactly what I meant by jerky. They aren't realistic. Even if it is a fictional world with some fictional physics(For example how boneless creatures are able to withstand gravity), it still needs to feel like real world physics in many aspects.

Considering programming code, KSS went through adding in the physics of momentum and inertia right there. Meanwhile SqSq just simply swaps Kirby's direction, having him jerk in the opposite direction at the same speed. As that'd make the game easier for the players, it's unrealistic.

Also, Kirby's vertical's MUCH lower in KSS in contrast to most Kirby platformers, which would add to him not being able to inhale twice midair.

Many boneless creatures can. Also, despite it isn't alive, a bubble can withstand gravity. Kirby is inbetween a bubble and a rock, allowing him to stay firmly planted when standing, but also jump higher and fly. Normal Kirby is actually quite realistic (in comparison to other video game characters), as his boneless, stretchy structure allows him to inflate, spreading his mass to other areas of his body, so that even a small wind, such as the flap of his stubby arms, can propel him skywards, and without it, he gently falls below. This is the reason why in Kirby games those fans blow him slowly upwards, and when inflated he rockets upwards.

This has been Kirby Physics THREE SIX FIVE 101

NOTE: Not part of original post; only above is (We have kewl smilies there) including the smiley, just not this note.

 

[Plu-e]

Uhm, okay...

I know I don't say much on these forums, but if I'm known for something in my town, it's gotta be my Kiirby, Ganondorf, and hopefully an upcoming Ness. - Wichita, Kansas FTW O_O

Okay...I've been sliding through some of these threads on kirby and...

This guide is nice...but I've yet to see it updatted.

The video guides have some good info on combos - not enough(fighting theory).

And maybe this is just me and it should be posted in a new thread, but I do this thing with kirby for spacing where it's like you fuse his jumps and dodges at the same time to do this weird spin thing - No Marth infinities on me (I put this bit in there just as an idea for ur guide)

And, this guide is pretty...basic :/
It gives me lovely things on damage and such but the Jiggly Puff guide is SUPERIOR BY FAR to Kirby's.

They go into the angle at which you are knocked back and they have their AT's listed aswell as applications.

I guess my rant is about....when will this be finished, because it's taking forever -_-

*Also, I saw something as I was scrolling through some of the previous pages...

T_T...Kirby is not pushing Middle Tier, I pernsonally kirby is a God (in brawl) and deserves to be right up there with his nemesis, MetaKnight.

Kirby is perhaps the most adaptable character in the game - and not because of his inhale and copy abilities < Those are a SERIOUS bonus, especially when you know what you're doing = SPACING BABEH.

AND WHAT IS THIS ABOUT "Poor approach options" O_O...T_T....and you say you use kirby. -_-....
You can work in B-Up, Tilts, and all of Kirby's air based moves as approach options.
Let alone mind games.

So uhm, yeah...*awkward after the rant*

When's this gonna be done?

P.S. - People disagree with my kirby theory, yet everyone I've brawled on my "brawling level" with my kirby, has had serious trouble...or failed...miserably - You'd be shocked how many people I can get with the hammers(air and ground) and with Inhale.


WAIT - Editing

I do want to say the guide is GREAT it just has a LONG way to go.

 

[A1lion835]

The jump+airdodge thing is known (no falco chaingrabs for me!).

And as far as I can tell, t1mmy (writer of this guide) has some personal grudge against the modding system here or something. Go to allisbrawl.com, where's he's more active with this kind of stuff.

And Kirby is high tier, not god. No way he'll be up there at mk's level, at least not in this game. I don't really care to explain right now. Ask me and I will.

And just because you beat the crap out of people doesn't mean your character is good.

 

[Plu-e]

^= This is me asking why can't kirby EVER be God Tier T_T

And, I can prove my arguments when I have spacing and mind games fully down packed. The addition of AT's would be wonderful, but I'm working on the raw game first.

 

[A1lion835]

The problem? Kirby is too slow. He's got no way to keep the pressure on, because he just can't get there. He's got a slow dash. Slow airspeed. Everyone has ways to get there. Snake can mortar slide. MK can do a lot of things, one of which is whorenado. And so on and so on.

Kirby also has no AT's. He has nothing. Maybe, maybe you could say the infinite stone glitch is an AT, but it doesn't compare with bucket breaking, mortar sliding, DACUS (his is short, btw, if you can even do it), pika's chaingrab, and so many others.

Also, anyone can get down spacing and mindgames and be where you are.

There's more I'd like to write (all written after looking at all the posts in the kirby backroom recently, thanks guys), but I'm hungry. If you want more, again, just ask and I will deliver.

 

[Plu-e]

- I said I wasn't at the point of mindgames and spacing (it's something I'm working on is what I said) -

As for the whole "getting there" concept.

I don't have to get there or, I can get there in a safe way. - Just like chess

Kirby is weighty - yes.

But there are MANY ways around that.
This talk of no AT's O_O. . T_T...I'll find some.

There are MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY....<approaching infinity> MANY ways to get there.

I'm sure there are AT's for kirby. I'll do the research myself.

*Starting with ways to extend his range*
*Then to working with slides (Pivot Slides?) - if any*
Anyways, not my point.

Kirby has many approaching methods.

There's an approaching technique where short hop + Dair.
Approaching with bair and fair usage. (Fair has combos from what I've heard = REEEESEARCH
Backing up with Dogde Jumping and covering ur self with Nair.
And then Uair blah blah blah

Kirby's tilts O_O...pretty deadly actually.
Look at the range on that U-tilt and F-tilt(more research I'll need)< So much potential (I've seen it)

Leading us into his D-Tilt....D for DAYUM!

D-Tilt *If you can get that trip affect - which u prolly will,

You can do SOOO MUCH

A. Grab you oppenent and go into a grab combo
B. Smashes ^_^
C. Combo - > Dair them and time it properly(needs more research on that) and u can get the spike stun and go into a smash attack or maybe even a grab combo
D. :/ I'd debate hammer
E. If worth it, use inhale.
F. Do you still get the bouncing effect on kirby's b-up(use if u do)
G. Withdraw for another tactic
H. W/e you want.

If you don't get the trip affect, you can mix up ur tilts and put pressure with other tilts btw.

I wonder if kirby has jab lock? And we can aruge many other WHAT IFS O_O and see if it's true.
Kirby gets a slide if u run and do rock kirby. - If I can find a way to extend it (prolly can ) and use it to go off the stage. We just got kirby 2 New ATs < Sliding off the stage? and A type of "rock tackle" < if that works

There's just so much u can do with kirby. He's a round spongy thing for a reason, He resembles clay

Don't get me started on applications with Inhale and hammer.
< Hanging out by the ledge is helpful also. As said by a great Lucario player "The edge is your friend."

 

[Plu-e]

Oh, And uhm...


If anyone is interested in helping me with this data collection just pm me?

I brawl on weekends, school breaks, and holidays - sometimes on weekdays if i'm lucky.
I've got a lot of things I want to know with kirby and even if ALL of this things fail (which they don't because some are applications on things I need more data on) then kirby still is useful.


Kirby can also gimp ^+^
(Jab combo on the edge and then following up with spikes or smashes are GREAT)

As much as I hate Kirby's Running A's in all of the Smash Games - I like this break dance best...

I do it a lot, but Idk how @+@, but I finish my first running a and go straight into another with little to no grab time.(or maybe ppl i fight suck :/ @_@) < You can also go in with the jab combo and maybe even grabs.

NOW REPLY

 

[A1lion835]

Yes, he has a jablock, but like most situational. And the sliding off the stage as rock...ask gonzo, he discovered a technique better than that, but I can't find the vid. They're hardly AT material.

 

[Plu-e]

Stop saying it's "hardly AT" These are what we have and we NEED to work with it to support Kirby. He has the ability to handle ANY character and we need to learn to use them properly and accordingly.

Situational AT's are very great as they can turn the tides of the match in your favor - sometimes almost INSTANTLY.

So we don't have the crazy knock back and damage of Snake and he is a threat to kirby because of it.

We need to fight back with this.

I gave you a list of devices counter acting your the approaching and keeping thi s pressure on.

I agree there are ways around this, all the more reason to take usage of what little AT's and situational tactics we have. ---- Let alone the adaptability.

Is there anything else that is keeping kirby from God Tier. I want to know what and I want to find ways around this and ways to surmount it.

 

[A1lion835]

Yes, situational AT's help, but they're not BAM. And they're not automatically better because they're all we have.

And good luck getting around kirby's slowness.

Part of the reason I think Kirby can't get much better than he currently is, is just because he's so SLOW. I mean, he's slow on the ground, and in the air. None of his moves are what you would call "lightning fast." His projectile is slow as hell. He has no quick momentum-changing specials. He's floaty, and it's hard to be fast with his jumps, even though they don't send him far. It's hard to explain what I'm thinking about...various characters with only one double jump can go from the ledge to the stage and do something funky and fast. Kirby's jump just seems so slow and predictable.

And this:

MetaKnight, Snake, Falco, DDD, GameandWatch and Diddy Kong; all very good characters and they've had some one place first with them more than Twice (obviously).

We all know why they're all top tier, so I won't bother explaining why. But, I'll take Diddy Kong for example.

Diddy Kongs Game is Overwhelming, in the sense that the bananas take getting used to. A good diddy player will find a way around anything, but, what if the opponent doesn't have anything to get around of?

Kirby's game is too straight forward. There isn't anything WOW that makes a Kirby player stand out that much other than, the already stated, smart play. And, I think that the main reason is the one Asdioh Stated:

Kirby is TOO SLOW~!!!

I can relate do the Jumps being slow. I have to play MK's, Diddy Kongs, ROB's and Snakes and they all combo. Sure, Kirby Combo's aswell, but it has to be out of a Grab. Most of his play stile revolves around grabs tbh. D-Grab is too good, but I use it too much because I don't have those many options to rack up damage. Other than B-air walls, the opponent doesn't have to fight to get to us.

Thanks for all these good quotes, guys. I have homework to do, no time to write all of this.

In my personal experience, a lot of my tournament matches go like this: I dominate my opponent for the first stock, or first game...and then after a while they learn the matchup (most of them have little Kirby experience, and not to be cocky, but probably not with as good of a Kirby as myself) and they fare much better.

x_x

It's different from some of the top tiers like Metaknight, where it's still a hard fight no matter HOW well you know the matchup.

This Saturday, I went to a Local Tourney, but I didn't get to play (no money :<)

I played a Snake Main. I was Owning Him. I mean, I had a 1 stock advantage with 56%. He won :/

He figured out how to fight me and the Freaking Mortar Slide Owned me bad. Grenades everywhere, C4 going off and Me stepping in mines! He got to win the match because he was snake, lol. But, when we finished, he told me "Great Kirby".

I couldn't have fought him better, seriously, and he still won :/ What edge could we get? Maybe at some point we'll find some uber mega AMAGAD tactic that will give us an edge, but for now, I'm at a Slump.

And Asdioh, I think that you're the one that could relate the most since, you go to tourney's often. The tournament scene isn't all that nice to you when you play Kirby :/

And that's what I mean when I say that it doesn't matter how well you know the matchup with some characters. I've fought a billion Snakes, and I can almost tell what they're going to do next, but their moves are a lot harder to get around for us than is the case for them.

I must say though, Mortar Slide is pretty easy to beat. You can Bair, Inhale, drop a grenade and shield, Fsmash, stuff like that. Only if you see it coming though.

Grenades, mindes, C4, and godly-strong tilts are a little harder though.

Again, I can't tell you how often I've outplayed a Snake and lost anyway because of how heavy Snake is, and hard to rack up damage on without taking damage yourself. Kirby can rack up damage on Snake fairly quickly if he reads him right, but he will TAKE damage as well, and every 2% for Snake is the equivelant of like 1% on Kirby. I'm not gonna lie, Snake is WAY heavier than he should have been.

Oh well.

One advantage Kirby DOES have is that he can use his multiple jumps to bait attacks, and punish. This is a basic strategy every Kirby should learn early on.

It just sucks when you have a good opponent who simply runs/rolls/walks away, so that you have to either 1. land and reset positions or 2. finally attack when you run out of jumps, and most likely get shieldgrabbed or punished in another way.

Take MK for example. Say I'm approaching him from the air. All he has to do is walk away, just out of range of any aerial I could fall down on him with. Kirby's really slow in the air, so this is easy for almost every character to do. If I choose to Bair or Fair him, he can get just out of range, and Ftilt or something. If I use Dair, he can shieldgrab it.

That's all for now, homework time!

 

[Plu-e]

Lol, thank you for your efforts. I need to get offline too.

But,...I already know how to get around this.

It's gonna take major PRACTICE and I wanna experiment with it first and use EVERYTHING kirby has too advantage - AT's available to all characters and kirby alone PLUS those combos.

G'Night,

T_T we need a guide also T_T

 

[A1lion835]

Why does everyone say we need a guide? Cmon, this one's pretty good...

also, AiB.

(definitely NOT a post so that my post count isn't 911!)

 

[platiepoos]

I'm new as well. (Kind of. I've lurked for a long time.)

While all of these things are negative, you should know that Kirby has positives as well, that are much more obvious then his flaws. I mean, there's a reason Falcos rate this matchup as 70-30 for Kirby.

While you NEED to be aware of these good facts A1 mentioned, don't let them discourage you from playing Kirby.

 

[fromundaman]

Exactly!

To be fair though, Plu-e is sort of right about situational 'AT's. Considering that we have literally almost nothing that will always work no matter what, everything we have is situational, though you're right that none of it is really 'AT worthy'.
Still, the situational stuff helps a lot, and Kirby is able to improvise strings well, which helps, and his gimping mixed with his incredible airtime helps him offstage too (in fact, being offstage is my favorite place to be fighting as Kirby). He has KO power as well, though all our KO moves except Bair are punishable.

So yeah Platie, we do have things going for us, but we have stuff holding us back as well, which is why we won't reach 'god tier' so to speak. (Still though, our matchups are pretty good, and Kirby will definitely move in the tier list, up if we find new stuff or stay the same, down if people realize how much of our stuff they can get out of.)


And A1, to be fair, I did mention a way to increase our air mobility/speed, though it doesn't help much (unless you want to air camp). Just pointing out that it is possible...

 

[dooitstheo]

what is phantom lag?

??? what is that exaclty?

 

[t!MmY]

I think everything A1 has mentioned (or quoted Asdioh or Dfat1 on), is pretty spot-on.

Early on with Brawl people thought Kirby was high tier because of his grab game, combos, F-smash, and off-stage capabilities. As players got used to Brawl and became better with DI, SDI, recovery, and developing their own character's strengths, Kirby started to falter. Not only that, but as other characters developed further it seems like Kirby has taken baby-steps in his meta game.

It has come to the point now that if I so much as try a F-throw combo the follow-up gets SDI'd and I do a big 18% and the combo ends there (exception to heavy characters where I can usually get another grab in). From there, other characters have advantages in speed, priority, camp, weight, power, etc. and the only thing I have at my disposal is strategy and experience.

While it's not like Kirby's at a HUGE disadvantage most of the time, there are still specific things that are very difficult to get around - most notably those who play the 'distance game'. And it's not like in Melee where people even *forgot* Kirby was in the game until I selected him; Kirby sees some action so people are more informed and practiced against what he has at his disposal.

I, personally, see Kirby dropping in the meta game. I could care less what tier lists say. I'm fully immersed in the tournament scene and can tell you exactly how things are developing between competitive players with any character.

BTW, the most updated version of this guide is found on AllisBrawl. I'll update here after I'm finished fixing everything up over there first.