Kirby & The Amazing Guide

[Naisora]

Doesen't jab 3 have so much endlag that you can get punished for using it?

 

[Sage JoWii]

Doesen't jab 3 have so much endlag that you can get punished for using it?

Sure it has some endlag but all moves used at the incorrect time, with incorrect spacing are punishable. Did you know against ICs jabbing is one of the best things to do? Pummel during grab and edgegaurding by jabbing (with proper spacing).

 

[Triple R]

Good of you to be messing around, Triple R! But... The hitstun characters receive from our single jab is enough for them to be able to retaliate with a fast attack, so we can't really combo them... Might as well just jab3 them for the extra damage, cuz you won't have enough time to run and uair them, nor jump and bair.

I know single jab is disadvantaged, but I'm talking about jabbing them when they just got knocked off the stage or platform. They are way less likely to retaliate when they are getting knocked off something. Heck I use a single jab all the time offensively on stage, and it usually works in my favor. Plus if they decided to airdodge thinking they will get to safer, lower ground, the uair will hit. Just because we are at a disadvantage after a single jab does not mean this won't work. If people thought and played brawl that way, no one would ever attack each other. Did you guys try this is training mode?

 

[Kewkky]

I know single jab is disadvantaged, but I'm talking about jabbing them when they just got knocked off the stage or platform. They are way less likely to retaliate when they are getting knocked off something. Heck I use a single jab all the time offensively on stage, and it usually works in my favor. Plus if they decided to airdodge thinking they will get to safer, lower ground, the uair will hit. Just because we are at a disadvantage after a single jab does not mean this won't work. If people thought and played brawl that way, no one would ever attack each other.

We're not saying we don't want to test things, it's more of a... 'There's better options that are used right now'. You're essentially telling me that you want to put yourself at a disadvantage simply because you want to mix it up? I don't know if you realizzed, but when the opponent is pushed off the platform, they get into a "tumbling" animation that can only be broken by momentum cancelling. If you jab them, you cancel that animation for them faster than they can, so they have enough time to hit you before you can throw out your uair (and they will either hit you or avoid the uair, since they'll be mashing an attack or an airdodge in order to cancel the tumble).

Did you guys try this is training mode?

Just so you know, training mode isn't the best place to be practicing stuff. Two things that come to mind immediately are that moves never stale in training mode, and the 'consecutive hits' thing is wrong half the time (since "Combos" are subsequent attacks when the opponent is in hitstun, and we can cancel hitstun with an attack or an airdodge, it doesn't really count combos).

But, nope, haven't tried it. If my opponents are pushed off a platform I usually just get down as well, airdodge while landing in case they attack to momentum cancel their tumbling animations, then grab/tilt them on the floor.

 

[Triple R]

Show me a video where someone momentum cancels a dair. Who does that? A dair sends you nowhere.

As far as people hitting you after you jab them, that's character dependent. I would agree that someone like meta could swing an uair at you right away, but what would a character like snake attack you with when he's facing you? If he airdodges, that gives us time to get to the ground and utilt or something.

And if people are reacting to someone jabbing them, they're a robot lol. A jab hits on frame 5, not sure how long it takes to cool down though. Either way that's insane reaction time if they react to it. Most likely if someone hits you they were trying to attack before and happened to keep pressing the A button and the attack comes out after the jab instead of before.

You really think a stale dair is that much different from a fresh dair? I don't know how often you use dair in a real match, but judging by how safe you must play, I'm guessing never. So it would be fresh just like in training mode anyway.

Seriously though momentum cancelling a dair? lol

Do you never single jab on stage though?

Edit: I think I just realized what you were talking about with the "tumbling" animation when they get off the platform. I don't think that happens with what I'm talking about because they are hit off with dair instead of just pushed off, though I forget if dair sends them into an animation or just leaves them upright when they go into the air. Doesn't happen to often.

 

[~Shao~]

Single jabbing on ground level is usually a bad idea if not rarely used as mix-up for like, jab cancel > grab, etc. However, I think the situation you're describing can be proven useful against unsuspecting opponents and heavy-weights, specially Snake.

 

[Kewkky]

Edit: I think I just realized what you were talking about with the "tumbling" animation when they get off the platform. I don't think that happens with what I'm talking about because they are hit off with dair instead of just pushed off, though I forget if dair sends them into an animation or just leaves them upright when they go into the air. Doesn't happen to often.

Good thing you added this, cuz I was about to explode.

Okay, I got the picture wrong, I understand what you mean now. You shouldnt've said "push them off the edge" though, you should've just said "hit them with the landing hit of dair, thus knocking them offstage". But still, since they'll be in the air when you jab them, you'll cancel all of their hitstun anyway, and they'll be able to jump away or something. Characters like MK (fast aerials) can do a surprise nair or something, and characters like Snake (slow aerials) will just jump away when you cancel their hitstun with the jab... Like you said, it's a situational thing, but it can work if you really want to mix things up with a weaker option (I would just grab them though, since dair leads into grabs even if they're knocked off a platform, or maybe just ftilt them to get some space between us)... I really wouldn't want to waste a chance to grab them by trying an escapable string out, though.

And I don't play safe, at all. WHich is why I'm not #1 in PR. I'm a very aggressive player, just ask TLMSheikant, Twinkie, or RATED (Puertorrican players who visit these boards), they'll vouch to my awesome aggressiveness.

 

[t!MmY]

Don't dismiss the Jab application Triple R is talking about too quickly.

I used D-air -> Jab on a Snake and in that situation human opponents do not take advantage to punish the frame disadvantage Kirby has. This is because they know they're in a vulnerable position as opposed to having their feet on the ground and feeling confident about demolishing the Kirby standing right next to them.

So, after Snake was knocked off the stage, I used the Jab to catch him by surprise which forced him to recover lower than he otherwise would have be able to (he was taken by surprise by the extra hit). This lead to easier edguarding such as grabbing his Cypher or jumping out and hitting with a Giant Swing.

This also worked wonders on Wolf.

The only thing is it's sort of dependant on DI, recovery aptitude, and how quickly a character can respond while in the air. This did not work out very well for me against Meta Knight for instance.

I've also been looking at some new things Kirby can do near the ledge, but I want to test it out a little more before making any claims.

 

[fromundaman]

And I don't play safe, at all. WHich is why I'm not #1 in PR. I'm a very aggressive player, just ask TLMSheikant, Twinkie, or RATED (Puertorrican players who visit these boards), they'll vouch to my awesome aggressiveness.

I can kinda somewhat attest to that too.

 

[Kewkky]

I can kinda somewhat attest to that too.

True, true... I forgot I used Kirby at the hotel back then, I thought I just went straight ZSS.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

It's too bad that noone can teach anybody how to really get good @ this game. I like the guide though T!mmy; it explains Kirby's moveset clearly.

 

[MikeKirby]

Wait... am I seeing this right? N-Air hits on the same frames as F-Air and U-Air? Wow... it felt like it took longer to execute.

Interesting...

 

[fromundaman]

Nah, it's a fast aerial (though I wish it came out as fast as Mario's Nair or Uair...), just has low range and a lot of ending lag unless ACed, so it's a very situational move. I honestly use it mostly to cancel RCO lag, and occasionally to punish if my other moves are stale since it does decent damage and has combo potential.

All in all not a great move though. I'd say our worst if you exclude how good it is for canceling out RCO lag and consider just it's qualities as an attack (And as Kewkky can attest, I was trying really hard to find more uses for it at one point.).

 

[t!MmY]

I thought for sure when Brawl came out that they would make Kirby's N-air hit on frame 3 and have a multi-hit. But then Meta Knight stole it. :\

 

[MikeKirby]

It'd be cool if Kirby had small hitbubbles attached to his feet and arms along with this body hitbubble. Aw well. Anyway, t!Mmy, you wrote Dash Attack instead of the Vulcan Jab on the attack descriptions and pictures. I just thought, I'd point it out. I love this guide. I always come here if I need to brush up on a few things.

 

[Ninja Kirby Nick!]

I wanted to say something!!

Um...

Why does it say that Kirby can die so easily? I know he's a lightweight, but...A good Kirby can survive to ridiculous amounts of %, right..?

 

[t!MmY]

Oh, thanks for spotting that, MikeKirby.
(Edit: Fixed!)

@NKN: Where does it say that Kirby can die so easily?

Spoiler

...it's true

 

[fromundaman]

Wish Kirby had Mario's DI... I can make him survive to ridiculous percents.

 

[Naisora]

Wish Kirby had Mario's DI... I can make him survive to ridiculous percents.

Haha, I was once bored so I tried that in PSA Yeah man, Kirby is really light. I think Mario's middle, right? Most I've lived with Kirby is probably 155-160, but im not sure.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Most I've live with Kirby....is forever. That's right! My Kirby doesn't die; it just gets so strong offscreen that when he comes back, the 250% seems like 0%. It even looks like a 0%.

10This.

 

[fromundaman]

Well, Mario's middle, but more importantly, he has ridiculous DI. I mean, my average death % when not gimped (or against Snake) as Mario is around like 240 or something.

 

[t!MmY]

Yeah, apparently characters have some sort of intrinsic 'survivability' factor. Hence Lucario is rather light, but he can live for a long time.

Don't even get me started on Snake. >_>

 

[MikeKirby]

Yeah, apparently characters have some sort of intrinsic 'survivability' factor. Hence Lucario is rather light, but he can live for a long time.

Don't even get me started on Snake. >_>

Seriously... t!Mmy... I agree... >_>

 

[fromundaman]

Yeah, apparently characters have some sort of intrinsic 'survivability' factor. Hence Lucario is rather light, but he can live for a long time.

Don't even get me started on Snake. >_>

Or MK... I mean, he's about as light as Kirby, yet never seems to die.

 

[t!MmY]

It actually has something to do with a character's gravity (fast falling speed). If a character has a heavy gravity, they're more resistant to Star KOs. Meta Knight has a higher gravity than Kirby, Falco is ridiculous, and Snake has a high gravity AND is one of the heaviest characters in the game. Kirby/Jigglypuff are just easy to KO all around.

GG balancing the weight classes. >_>

 

[fromundaman]

Ahhh... That makes sense. Thanks T!mmy.

 

[Valcrist]

Wish Kirby had Mario's DI... I can make him survive to ridiculous percents.

I've lived to 190% a few times with Kirby.

 

[kirbyrox]

kirby mains everywhere become more skilled everytime they read this

 

[Eagleye893]

One thing I don't see... Sometimes when I use FC, I land on stage to pressure my opponent, and some random times it seems that if my opponent shields and I am close enough to the ledge, I will slide off and grab the ledge after hitting the ground and firing off the shot from FC. I feel it is an AT, but I don't know entirely.

Could this be done consistently and intentionally? Also, would it be able to happen without hitting a shield, but instead just landing really close to a ledge and sliding off to grab the ledge? I guess the last option is a no, because I've tried several times... but I COULD be wrong. Maybe something to look into, but I doubt it's very useful... especially not against many good edgeguarding characters.

note: the downward slash (near landing) is what hits the shield, as well as the FC shot.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Simple answer really.

It's not an AT. When the downslash of FC comes down on your opponent's powershield it pushes Kirby away from the stage into a freefall, or tumbling, animation. If you're close enough to the stage you'll grab it but it's possible to be gimped if you miss the ledge. I never recommend using FC as a 'pressure' option. In my opinion it's fairly decent for recovery and I think it's viable once or twice to plank but the only reason I say that is because you HAVE to hit both up and down slashes for it to be effective.

Tl'dr: Your opponent initiates it w/ powershield. >_> You can recreate it though by FCing towards the left on the slant of Distant Planet while the rain is running down the slope.

 

[RayquazaTheKip]

Thank you for this Amazing Guide! It's really useful since Kirby is my main and this guide REALLY helped! Thank you for your time and concern for making this guide =)

 

[t!MmY]

I'm glad to hear the guide helped, I put a lot of time into it so it's always nice to get feedback.

 

[JOE!]

Great guide!

Is there any data on the IASA Frames of his smashes & Side/Up Specials?

 

[MikeKirby]

From what I see JOE, Kirby has no IASA on any smashes or his specials, except his Inhale. Bummer...

Anyway, t!Mmy, maybe you can include the "Reaper Combo" or what was/is the "Gonzo Combo" so that new Kirby's read it here and not be confused if it is mentioned elsewhere in the Kirby Forums? Also maybe try to add the Inhale Break > Footstool tactic in the "Break Free" section of the "Fighting Fundamentals" in the "Copy" secton. I know there was a thread around here with what characters Kirby can and can't footstool out of an air released inhale. Hmmm... just some suggestions.

 

[JOE!]

ok, but at least is there info on when the animations end?

 

[Naisora]

Not sure if there is, but I can gather frame data if there isn't if you guys want me to.

 

[JOE!]

That'd be great.

All we know from this guide is when they (smashes/specials) hit...nothing else really <.<

 

[Vinylic.]

Kewl. Thanks for the info!

 

[t!MmY]

Those are pretty good suggestions. I'll probably add little things like the Footstool (after a Break Free Swallowcide) as things go along. I'll double check the info I have up here and see what additional information I can continue adding.

But to answer your questions about the IASA on Kirby's Smash Attacks: from what I see there is no IASA on any Smash Attack that Kirby has.

 

[D Who?]

What moves can Kirby inhale through?
Does it give any type of super armor(grab armor)?
Who does inhale work best?
Does taking Snakes hat make the mu closer to even?

Sorry, I'm really new to Kirby and I need to know some of these.. Besides, the inhale data would be a good thing to have on here