Kirby Question and Answer/Helpful Thread directory! <(^_^)>

[A1lion835]

(In case you haven't found it yet) Fromundaman's right. Here's the link ^_^ .

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242628

 

[Lord Viper]

★ Everything changed in a year, plus I haven't played teams in a tournament in a while, I think it's best for someone else to take over that thread, or make a new one. ♛

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

When you copy someones ability, do you use that ability a lot more then nessecary?

For example, when I play, let's say I suck up Captain Falcon, I relize that I use Falcon Punch a lot more then I should, which messes up my gameplay very badly.

Does anyone else do this at all?

 

[Sage JoWii]

Lmao, only during friendlies.

In a serious match, you'd never absorb CF's power.

To answer your post: It's power specific. Pika t-jolt is Tier SSS spam. Snake, Falco, Pit come to mind as next best to spam. There's a good amount of copied abilities that are actually game breaking like the few I just mentioned. Those are necessary to spam the **** out of obviously. The one you shouldn't spam are the ones that even the main's of the copied character don't spam like CF, Ganon, Peach, etc.

O_o I like your avatar btw.

 

[fromundaman]

Nope. Only ability I really take are Pika's and Mario's, and I spam those ****ers like crazy, but I know how to use them and it works.

 

[Micklem]

Ok guys I'm fairly new to kirby. I'm picking him up as a way of going even-ish against pikagays (and cos kirby's awesome, obviousy). I'm aware of a few combos, mostly from Fthrow, which are awesome at racking up damage, but I can't really get far past 30-40 ish with anything I try. And I've seem ChuDAT getting 0-death KOs against Larry, Ally, and god knows who else.

My question is: how the hell does he do this?

And yes, this is a serious question. I've watched them repeatedly but still can't get my head around them. Is he reading DI and punishing at each step (i.e. do you need to be chudat to pull it off) or are there common tricks I could be practising??

**Also, what's the point of inhale if you don't use falcon pownsh? Captain Falcon users know better than anyone how scared they should be of that move

 

[Kewkky]

Ok guys I'm fairly new to kirby. I'm picking him up as a way of going even-ish against pikagays (and cos kirby's awesome, obviousy). I'm aware of a few combos, mostly from Fthrow, which are awesome at racking up damage, but I can't really get far past 30-40 ish with anything I try. And I've seem ChuDAT getting 0-death KOs against Larry, Ally, and god knows who else.

My question is: how the hell does he do this?

And yes, this is a serious question. I've watched them repeatedly but still can't get my head around them. Is he reading DI and punishing at each step (i.e. do you need to be chudat to pull it off) or are there common tricks I could be practising??

Yeah, he does it by reading their DI and acting accordingly. They're not TRUE combos, but they all connect if you follow your opponent precisely.

Soooo, yeah, in a sense, you gotta be ChuDat level to pull 'em off.

 

[Micklem]

Yeah, he does it by reading their DI and acting accordingly. They're not TRUE combos, but they all connect if you follow your opponent precisely.

Soooo, yeah, in a sense, you gotta be ChuDat level to pull 'em off.

****. Ah well

 

[fromundaman]

A lot of Kirby's combos are based on reading the opponent.
Playing Ganon has made me much better at reading opponents.
By transitive property playing Ganon has made me better with Kirby. (It's true too!)


Also, Kirby ***** Pika, or at least mine does. Just sayin'.

 

[Micklem]

A lot of Kirby's combos are based on reading the opponent.
Playing Ganon has made me much better at reading opponents.
By transitive property playing Ganon has made me better with Kirby. (It's true too!)


Also, Kirby ***** Pika, or at least mine does. Just sayin'.

your boards have it as even.. guess it's just yours then lol

On that note, and advice vs him would be appreciated of course
Stupid little rat. <<Pikagay, not you

(and woo finally a legitimate reason to use ganon )

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

lol, Pikachu isn't gay >_< were just annoying little pricks

 

[Micklem]

Well you got it half right XD

jkjk I'm sure there's a heterosexual pikachu out there somewhere.

 

[Kewkky]

Stay under Pikachu, and try to not be above him. That pretty much sums up the match-up! And uhh... If you ever have a chance, take his power, but don't go throwing out inhales everywhere.

Utilt is good here cuz it puts you below him with frame advantage!

 

[Sage JoWii]

>_> To answer ya Mickle, yes you kinda have to be Chu to do some of those things. The thing is, Kirby is a character that has to read in order to keep momentum.

Against Pika, we have a MU summary you could pull a few good tips from.

The reason it's even is because Pika is faster, able to camp better (until we get the power), and can combo well. If Kirby gets the power it shifts into our favor but MU 'ratings' shouldn't be based around IF we can get the power.

 

[Micklem]

Stay under Pikachu, and try to not be above him. That pretty much sums up the match-up! And uhh... If you ever have a chance, take his power, but don't go throwing out inhales everywhere.

Utilt is good here cuz it puts you below him with frame advantage!

By 'try not to be above him' do you mean don't aerial approach? Cos that would be my first thought when approaching (i.e. get in the air, avoid t-jolts, abuse multiple jumps, use Bair, etc.) lol is that gonna get me killed?

Also, should I be frightened of a chain grab at all? I imagine kirby isn't fastfalling enough for Dthrow to work, but Fthrow..?


*@jowiicide, how rare are these combos from chu? I havent seen ChuDAT too much so I don't know if they're one-offs, but if chu can read & **** like that often then it must be possible to get kirby up into the higher tiers with practise (and yes, I mean a LOT of practise, but hell I have time) //// does anyone else ever achieve them?

** Just found the kirby vs pika MU thread, thanks JoWiiCIDE its good stuff. I'll start practising some t-jolt spamming XD wow now that I'm on the other side of it, I can see the fun side

 

[Sage JoWii]

Well, Kewkky is telling you approach1 but there's also approach2~. Approach one is stay grounded, plenty of powershields. Approach2 is aerial abuse of multi jump and bairs. Both work well, Ap2 works better once you have the power and it's more effective if you're on a stage w/ platforms.

Chu is a brilliant player who reads well but I wouldn't consider him our best Kirby. I'd say to watch vids of Y.b.M. because I believe he knows Kirby better than Chu and you'd know how to play Kirby rather than knowing how it looks for a intelligent player to read the **** out of people while playing Kirby.

As far as tier placement, honestly?, Kirby is right where he needs to be, maybe he'll shift because peach, TL and ZSS will move but he's above the people he should be above and I don't think tourny placement is that big a factor. You're welcome to take your shot and help us make Kirby better.

 

[Micklem]

haha well, I'll do my best

srsly tho I totally agree with the placings atm, it ws only watching Chu's sick tricks that got me doubting it.. but I guess that's just from an amateur's perspective. Cheers for the advice, and I'll look up Y.b.M. now.

 

[Kewkky]

Well, Kewkky is telling you approach1 but there's also approach2~. Approach one is stay grounded, plenty of powershields. Approach2 is aerial abuse of multi jump and bairs. Both work well, Ap2 works better once you have the power and it's more effective if you're on a stage w/ platforms.

Yep.

Chances are though, you'll be doing Approach1 most of the time since getting an inhale on fast characters is a challenge, and them knocking your copy ability off of you is as hard as hitting you (literally).

 

[fromundaman]

your boards have it as even.. guess it's just yours then lol

On that note, and advice vs him would be appreciated of course
Stupid little rat. <<Pikagay, not you

(and woo finally a legitimate reason to use ganon )

Well, the thing is, I've noticed my style is very different from most Kirbies, which helps me in some MUs and hurts me in others. For one, Ftilt and Dtilt. Second, I utilize some non-used moves (Nair as a combo breaker and inhale as a mixup/spotdodge punisher).

Ftilt is actually amazing vs Pikachu as a grounded spacer and a way to get through t-bolts while simultaneously spacing. Due to Pika's lack of range in general on most of his attacks, it outspaces 3/4ths of his moveset, including all his aerials when angled properly. It also stops QAC approaches.

Inhales are not too tough to get on Pika in certain situations, and the thing is, Pika can't punish it very hard if you miss. Dthrow mindgames are a good way to get them, or, if they try to avoid it, rack damage via combos to make them want to spotdodge next stock.
When Pika's recovering as well, grabbing the ledge will cause him to aim at the stage, so as soon as you see him start to QA, jump onstage with an inhale (a mixup, don't always do it obviously).
Predicting aerials can also allow you to land inhales.
You can also inhale and/or air or ground hammer him out of thunder.

The reason I said the inhale thing is because getting his power changes the MU completely. When you have his power, you play keepaway. Run and aircamp while spamming tbolts at him 5x better than he does due to your multiple jumps. As soon as he gets too close, don't shoot (it will get shielded and punish, which is something you can abuse since they will usually dash and shield expecting another jolt), and instead either run away or hit him away with something else during shieldrop, or just grab him.
This will make the MU ridiculously frustrating for the Pika player, and more likely to make mistakes, not to mention completely changes the way the MU works (since Kirby now wants to be away and above Pika, while Pika approaches from the ground, rather than Kirby having to approach, often from the air.).
There is also a frametrap you can do with his power for KO moves which I will demonstrate when I can upload the video.

Bair is also amazing vs Pika, but honestly, I think Ftilt is more useful. Mix the two up and Pika will have trouble getting in. Also be careful, a perfect shielded bair can be punished by a Pika Fsmash.

Honestly, without his power, I think that you have to mix up your approaches, but for the most part, the best way to approach Pika is to go at him from the ground while spacing with Ftilt so he can't sneak in quick hits.


Oh, and random tidbit: Nair can interrupt the Fthrow (Fthrow>Fthrow>Hyphen smash) combo sometimes (not sure when exactly, since I try not to always do it since if read it gets punished harder.).



And eh, using Ganon helps you read your opponent due to A) Flame choke, and B) The fact that since Ganon has pretty much nothing going for him, you kind of HAVE to improve as a player to effectively use him.

Sorry, long post, but I think I have some useful info in there.

 

[Micklem]

Cheers fromundaman; and yes there's a lot of useful info in there

Tell me when you get that vid uploaded, since I imagine that'd be very useful. In the meantime, I'll start practising some powershield approaches / Ftilts, and try to fight my tendency to get in the air whenever I can lol

*Edit: Also, if anyone has any videos demonstrating kirby tactics Vs pikachu thatd be awesome

 

[fromundaman]

I actually have quite a few replays vs Pikas (not all amazing matches I admit, and I'm not a top Kirby and he's not a top Pika, but we are both pretty good/decent I'd say.). Can anyone upload them for me, since the guy who was supposed to hasn't responded?

 

[WindMajor]

I actually have quite a few replays vs Pikas (not all amazing matches I admit, and I'm not a top Kirby and he's not a top Pika, but we are both pretty good/decent I'd say.). Can anyone upload them for me, since the guy who was supposed to hasn't responded?

Add both of my FC's and I'll upload them for you.

And do it quickly, so that I could capture your replays and Asdioh's replays all in one sitting.

 

[fromundaman]

Add both of my FC's and I'll upload them for you.

And do it quickly, so that I could capture your replays and Asdioh's replays all in one sitting.

Ack, didn't realize you also needed the Wii friend codes... Those are really hard to put in when you don't have a censor bar (GRAH FLORIDA!). Candles and lighters just don't cut it.

 

[WindMajor]

Actually, you can put the replay files in an SD card and send them to me.

Lets take this to VMs.

 

[Evil-Guy]

can two kirbies eat each other at the same time?

 

[Sage JoWii]

Lolz, if only. No, one will always win over the other and it's pointless unless that little damage sounds necessary.

 

[fromundaman]

No, they both eat each other and disappear from the game as they tear the fabric of the universe asunder! They get transported into a new world, where physics and logic have no place, and merge into one string-like Kirby. AND THUS, KIRBY'S EPIC YARN WAS BORN!

 

[Kewkky]

That's why MK has a mask, so he and Kirby can't eat each other at the same time. Eating yourself is possible, but Sakurai figured out the paradox that is you and a friend eating each other at the same time. Who gets to swallow the last bite first? How does it work if both swallow their last bites at the same time? And how can you swallow your opponent if he's swallowing you, meaning you're in his mouth while he's in your mouth?

 

[-LzR-]

This might be a hard question, but I recently have started to play Kirby and Dedede alongside MK so I could play all Kirby characters.
So my question is kinda short, what is the most important thing to keep in mind when playing as Kirby? What is different about him that I should keep and eye on?

 

[Sage JoWii]

Keep in mind that unlike D3 you won't live as long, and unlike MK not everything you do is safe. Kirby is semi-linear in game play so you have to use what you got and mix it up the best you can. Kirby doesn't really have any bad stages so CPing should be easy. It's all about MUs.

 

[Micklem]

Awrite guys, I have 1 more question..

I'm aware of the basic grab-combos ( i.e. Fthrow>Uair>PivotUtilt>Bair, or for fastfallers Fthrow>Uair>regrab>Improvise[?] ), but whilst I get cracking on using kirby properly I was just wondering if there was something big I've missed (for example, ways to maintain a percentage lead or some good kill-setups).

Basically, is there anything you kirby pros know that could help me get into the kirby mindset for other situations?

(I'm not asking for an essay, just a couple of handy tips)

 

[Sage JoWii]

Learn your stages. Kirby has no 'bad' stages and a lot of stages that are good for weird benefits; by learning your stages ins and outs you gain strong advantages.

I find against the big frame characters or characters that DI up and away you can follow FThrow>FAir>FAir and improvise from there as a mixup. Also for those who DON'T DI @ all you can just FThrow>aerialHammer.

For people like MK and Marth and others who have awesome upBs that **** after UAir, you can either shield and regrab or FTilt.

Grabs and stage advantages are Kirby strong suits.

 

[Triple R]

So most of us know that kirby's jab has a frame disadvantage. I was just wandering if the 2nd jab is the same, so instead of just doing his single jab, does doing the second jab still give you a frame disadvantage? I'm guessing yes, but just wanted to make sure.

 

[Kewkky]

Yep, it also has frame disadvantage. If you ever find yourself jabbing, try and do the whole jab combo, else people will try to grab you out of the jab1.

 

[Triple R]

So, what does everyone do when they are getting jabbed? Say you are getting jabbed by Falco and he goes into the whole spinning thing, what do you usually do? Do you DI away right away so you can get out and reset your position or do you try to do other things? Personally I usually try to SDI/DI up and over Falco so I can do a falling uair above/behind him to try and start my own string. What are your guys' strategies or suggestions when getting jabbed? Is there any tricks anyone knows that work well against certain characters?

 

[Sage JoWii]

When I get caught in a jab I DI up and away to reset my field position. I worry about encountering an attack I can't simply sDI @ the ground, so I don't attempt it ever. Especially against Falco though I DI up and away because if they're scrubby, or think you're scrubby, they can FSmash after jab combo because sometimes people don't DI properly and it lands. Falco, Luigi, Diddy, Ike are all cases where I just wanna get my footing again so I can figure out how I wanna confront the MU.

 

[Kewkky]

I also DI up and away, but I also mash R>away so I either airdodge and evade, or shield+roll away. This changes with the opponent's behavior of course, but generally this is my second nature reaction.

 

[skellitorman]

Where can I get some frame data for Kirby? Does anyone know the startup and ending frames of a jump (initial jump till you are considered airborn, and ending as in landing lag) and shield?

 

[Sage JoWii]

Check T1mmy's Kirby guide.

 

[skellitorman]

Thanks alot. That was really helpful.

However it doesn't have the frames for the startup and ending of shield/ jump/ grab. Does anyone know this information by any chance?