Kirby Question and Answer/Helpful Thread directory! <(^_^)>

[CT Chia]

lets say hypothetically im working on a new brawl version
and lets say hypothetically if kirby were to be balanced, what fair changes would be needed to be changed in order to make him balanced.

in terms of what level he should be balanced to, imagine it as simply being 100% competent in the current metagame. this could mean he might be buffed in some areas, or even nerfed in others. remember that overpowered characters such as MK or Snake will have small nerfs so kirby won't have to worry much about them per se. Also, a small amount of hitstun is added to the game, keep that in mind.

 

[Kewkky]

lets say hypothetically im working on a new brawl version
and lets say hypothetically if kirby were to be balanced, what fair changes would be needed to be changed in order to make him balanced.

in terms of what level he should be balanced to, imagine it as simply being 100% competent in the current metagame. this could mean he might be buffed in some areas, or even nerfed in others. remember that overpowered characters such as MK or Snake will have small nerfs so kirby won't have to worry much about them per se. Also, a small amount of hitstun is added to the game, keep that in mind.

I have no idea... I feel like Kirby is pretty balanced, not having any major weaknesses and being very good at what he does. I guess what would make him MORE balanced would be...

... Removing the kirbicide>footstool>dair?

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Remove Ninja Spike and Ninjacide. =P ☆

☆ JK, I can't say much because Kirby doesn't have much broken features other than his F-Smash killing at a stupid percent of around 80% sometimes. His inhale must be better, in Brawl you have to get very close to inhale someone and this move have a good amount of start up and ending lag. That's all I have to say. ☆

 

[lil cj]

Are Kirbycides allowed in tournies?
It seems like an unfair funny disadvantage for characters
with bad recoveries lol

 

[Kewkky]

Are Kirbycides allowed in tournies?
It seems like an unfair funny disadvantage for characters
with bad recoveries lol

Yes it is... That's why it's so broken.

Inhale them if they fall faster than Kirby, then jump off... They break out and fall faster than Kirby, so Kirby mashes the jump button and footstools them... Then, Kirby dairs and pushes them even lower and finally footstools them YET AGAIN after the dair finishes... Boom! A whole stock gone.

 

[Tiersie]

☆ Remove Ninja Spike and Ninjacide. =P ☆

Wuzzat?

10Wuzzats

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ What as in what is that move, or what as in why did I decide it should be removed? Be more specific next time. =) ☆

 

[Tiersie]

Sorry about that, I meant to ask what exacty a ninja spike is. I'll be more clear from now on

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Good, I'll give you the link to the Ninja Spike Thread then so you can know the meaning: ☆

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=224892

 

[TreK]

Woah, this is huge, thx Viper =)

 

[saviorslegacy]

Hey, not sure if this is known or not.

The other day I was messing around on wi-fi and a freind accidentally suck canceled. He went to inhail me but when I got to him he has stopped sucking.
He performed it from a short hop I believe, and he wasn't sucking for very long.
It ended with him I think jabbing, or something. It wasn't interrupted by me.

I was unable to get a replay since when we suicided the total time was like 3:20. -_-


Is this known?

 

[Kewkky]

Don't think so, from the sound of it.

And to avoid funny remarks and crappy puns from random people, call it "inhale", hehehe...

 

[RhedKing]

Don't think so, from the sound of it.

And to avoid funny remarks and crappy puns from random people, call it "inhale", hehehe...

oh god last winter I left my car outside inhale and it got all dinged up.

ok but really...

Just wanted to ask a bit about the hammer, what the general opinion of the move around here?

 

[Kewkky]

ok but really...

Just wanted to ask a bit about the hammer, what the general opinion of the move around here?

Well, the one on the ground is the strongest killing move Kirby has while on the ground, but it's also amazingly slow on start-up... So, it's best used when you're SURE it will connect, like when your opponent's shield broke, or they're at a very uncomfortable position where the hammer is unavoidable.

The one in the air is great, but hard to hit with. The first hit isn't all that special, but the 2nd swing kills horizontally, and almost always assures you a kill if you hit someone with it offstage. It's an amazing airdodge punisher, but pretty hard to set-up for it during high level matches.


All in all, it's not Kirby's worst move(s). You just have to know when to use them, which is hard to do thanks to how it leaves you open for punishment if you miss.

 

[Afropony]

This has probably been asked heaps of times but what's the best way to get out of that Fthrow>Uair thing that Kirby can do at the start of each stock. Even if it's not escapable where should I DI if my opponent screws up?

At the moment I DI behind the kirby and usually end up footstooling him.

 

[Kewkky]

Yep, that's the best way. DI up and behind Kirby then footstool him, it's the best way to escape with most characters. Others, like Marth and Luigi, have attacks that can get them out of the combos (Luigi's nair, Marth's upB).

 

[Afropony]

Mmm yeah I thought so, thanks for the help .

 

[Magma Dolphin]

How come on Brinstar when Kirby or D3 use their up-b moves underneath the stage to the right of the breakable floor, their up-b moves insantly land? and does this happen anywhere else?

 

[RhedKing]

happened once to me on dolphino plazza.....

 

[Magma Dolphin]

do you remember where it happened on the level (sides, middle)? not that it will be terribly useful, but if certain characters can cancel their up-b on certain stages that makes recovery and mindgames a bit more applicable to those characters for those stages.

 

[Kewkky]

How come on Brinstar when Kirby or D3 use their up-b moves underneath the stage to the right of the breakable floor, their up-b moves insantly land? and does this happen anywhere else?

The floor around the breakable part is kinda glitchy and weird... It always has been. I guess that's probably why. There's an easy explanation for that, but I'd need use of a pen and paper to draw a copy of the stage, and explain in a very detailed way.

Just think about it this way: the breakable part has mini walls where the floors connects to it. UpB'ing and touching those areas makes the game think the character landed, thus making him land.

do you remember where it happened on the level (sides, middle)? not that it will be terribly useful, but if certain characters can cancel their up-b on certain stages that makes recovery and mindgames a bit more applicable to those characters for those stages.

On the ledges in a very few number of stages, characters can cancel their upBs. They either instantly land on the stage as if they landed with their upB when they should be grabbing the ledge instead, or they grab and let go of the edge in 0 frames and regain all their jumps and upB (as well as they have no freefall animations and suffer no lag). I read somewhere it's called tele-stepping for Wolf, since he can do it easier than most other characters.

Here are video examples I was saving, since I'm gonna do a bit of research on these once my Wii's fixed:

Pika's upB tech (Seen at around 2:34)
Wolf's sideB tech
Kirby's upB tech... On slow-mo

 

[Magma Dolphin]

makes sense to me. do you know if anyone has made a list of who can and who cannot do this and on what stages exactly, i think that would be something useful to the community as a whole, and something i may invest some free time in if one does not exist. Ill go look now. Thank you very much for your explanation tho, very useful.

 

[Kewkky]

makes sense to me. do you know if anyone has made a list of who can and who cannot do this and on what stages exactly, i think that would be something useful to the community as a whole, and something i may invest some free time in if one does not exist. Ill go look now. Thank you very much for your explanation tho, very useful.

Yep, it is very useful if it can be pulled off properly. Some characters, like Wolf, can do it extremely easy, while others like Kirby, can't (I'm still working on experimenting a bit, my Wii's busted so my research has been held back by a lot...).

And nope, no one has really researched this in a global character scale. I know that Wolf, Pika, Kirby, Marth and MK can do it, though.

 

[Magma Dolphin]

i think what ill do is start testing up-b moves on Brinstar, see what ones work, then try applying it to other stages. then maybe ill try side-b moves aswell, and i guess we will see what happens. Thank you very much for all your help, and i look forward to posting the results, hopefully in the near future.

 

[RhedKing]

do you remember where it happened on the level (sides, middle)? not that it will be terribly useful, but if certain characters can cancel their up-b on certain stages that makes recovery and mindgames a bit more applicable to those characters for those stages.

unfortunately no, but I do know it was VERY close to the ledge, so much so I thought I wouldn't make it.

In fact we thought the game glitched out when it happened, not knowing this could happen repeatedly on brinstar.

Fun little tidbit, you know you guys have infinite jumps on final destination, right?

 

[Magma Dolphin]

Infinite jumps in what way? I know you can use the hammar to bounce, but if there is something else, you have peaked my interest? How does this infinite jump work

 

[RhedKing]

hmm? ok well this works Jiggs and kirby.

Go underneath the ledge on FD, position yourself just so right below the overhang, and use UpB, If done right, it cancels the up B and refreshes all of your jumps. This is more effective for jigglypuff since we have side B's but kirby still gets a lot out of it.

If you fail you'll spin mid air and fall to your death, (your head should be already touching the ovehang.

Play around with it and you can get it to work about 1 in 20 times.

practice it and it gets pretty consistant.

ok so here's my question. How do you do this hammer bounce thing you speak of? Exchange information.

 

[Kewkky]

Infinite jumps in what way? I know you can use the hammar to bounce, but if there is something else, you have peaked my interest? How does this infinite jump work

From a specific height, you can use Kirby's air hammer to reset your jumps... In the simplest terms, once Kirby is high enough from the stage, if you use an aerial hammer and the animation ends completely right when you're less than an inch from touching the floor (you must NOT touch the floor, but be extremely close to it), you get all your air jumps back. Pretty hard to do, not worth it, I've researched it and tried applying it.

It's easier to do in Battlefield: use the highest platform to "measure" your height when using Kirby's aerial hammer. Kirby has to be under the platform (forgot what distance) to almost-land when he uses the aerial hammer.

This is the only thing that I know Kirby can do to refresh all your jumps.

hmm? ok well this works Jiggs and kirby.

Go underneath the ledge on FD, position yourself just so right below the overhang, and use UpB, If done right, it cancels the up B and refreshes all of your jumps. This is more effective for jigglypuff since we have side B's but kirby still gets a lot out of it.

If you fail you'll spin mid air and fall to your death, (your head should be already touching the ovehang.

Play around with it and you can get it to work about 1 in 20 times.

practice it and it gets pretty consistant.

Ahhh, you're talking about a variation of tele-stepping too. Didn't know Jiggs could do it... And falling to our death isn't really an attractive risk, so I wouldn't really try it as Kirby...

ok so here's my question. How do you do this hammer bounce thing you speak of? Exchange information.

I think it's what I said on top of this post.

 

[Magma Dolphin]

You answered the Hammar-bounce question much better than i would have, lol. But it is interesting to know that tele-stepping also works for kirby on final destination, this can be added to the list of places to test it, so even if it is difficult to do, the information is quite valid. thank you

 

[rvkevin]

Hai! I'm slowly picking up Kirby (Mostly for Doubles)...and I have a few questions.

What are his best grab followups? I mostly do Fthrow->Uair->Reverse Utilt->Bair, Fthrow->Uair->Fthrow->Uair->Fsmash, or Dthrow->Utilt->Dthrow/Usmash if they don't double jump out of it...and then sometimes Fthrow->Hammer.

What are his best followups out of a footstool? I see a slight opening for this out of his copy ability, especially on snake or would it be best to just Bair/Uair? Any other setups for a footstool, Utilt?

 

[A1lion835]

Hai! I'm slowly picking up Kirby (Mostly for Doubles)...and I have a few questions.

What are his best grab followups? I mostly do Fthrow->Uair->Reverse Utilt->Bair, Fthrow->Uair->Fthrow->Uair->Fsmash, or Dthrow->Utilt->Dthrow/Usmash if they don't double jump out of it...and then sometimes Fthrow->Hammer.

None of those are guaranteed grabs, only fthrow->uair is guaranteed if your opponent DIs.

What are his best followups out of a footstool? I see a slight opening for this out of his copy ability, especially on snake or would it be best to just Bair/Uair? Any other setups for a footstool, Utilt?

You can fast-fall a dair out of a footstool, and that leads into another footstool...so a footstool offstage=stock. I started making a range of % that people could be footstooled after a uair a while ago and never finished it...here it is. As a rule of thumb, you can footstool most characters at 15%.

Responses in quote. Good luck with your Kirby.

 

[Asdioh]

Hey, not sure if this is known or not.

The other day I was messing around on wi-fi and a freind accidentally suck canceled. He went to inhail me but when I got to him he has stopped sucking.
He performed it from a short hop I believe, and he wasn't sucking for very long.
It ended with him I think jabbing, or something. It wasn't interrupted by me.

I was unable to get a replay since when we suicided the total time was like 3:20. -_-


Is this known?

I'm sorry but this made me lol XD

This has probably been asked heaps of times but what's the best way to get out of that Fthrow>Uair thing that Kirby can do at the start of each stock. Even if it's not escapable where should I DI if my opponent screws up?

At the moment I DI behind the kirby and usually end up footstooling him.

Make sure you Tap DI both the Control stick and the C-stick as you're getting hit, and you become way out of reach for any followup for Kirby. Should work for all characters. I'm mostly playing Kirby when I'm against Kirby, so I know it works extremely well for him, but for fast fallers and bigger characters it probably doesn't help as much.



Sorry I haven't paid attention to the Kirby boards lately guys ;_;

I've been too lazy...
Haven't cared about Brawl much since I can't go to tournies until I get another job, and I can't freaking find another job -.-

 

[Magma Dolphin]

That list you posted A1 is very interesting. i may just have to try that out the next time im on the wii

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Quick question, what do we call the Star Shot when Kirby swallows someone and when their too close, they get damage the same as getting hit with the Star Shot exhale? ☆

 

[Kewkky]

☆ Quick question, what do we call the Star Shot when Kirby swallows someone and when their too close, they get damage the same as getting hit with the Star Shot exhale? ☆

..... What? How does this happen?

So, you inhale someone, swallow them, then another character (who's close enough) gets damaged and knocked back the same way as spitting out a character and hitting him (starshot)?

 

[Triple R]

..... What? How does this happen?

So, you inhale someone, swallow them, then another character (who's close enough) gets damaged and knocked back the same way as spitting out a character and hitting him (starshot)?

I never realized it was the same damage as getting star shot at, but yeah I've noticed this in teams. When you swallow someone and people are next to you they get hurt. It's a nice breather after copying someone.

 

[Kewkky]

I never realized it was the same damage as getting star shot at, but yeah I've noticed this in teams. When you swallow someone and people are next to you they get hurt. It's a nice breather after copying someone.

Interesting, never knew that. I dunno how I'd apply it to my teams experiences, but a little practice wouldn't hurt, right? Plus, today I'm going to a smashfest to sync with my teammate, a perfect time to check that out...

 

[TreK]

Yo
Tomorrow I'm probably vs a really good Falco for a crew battle, so I will use Kirby for sure ; I've searched a bit but the matchup thread's people keep arguing over a number I don't really care about instead of what can/can't be done vs him, what to avoid etc. I searched for vids in both boards but found none where the Kirby wins it.

The only stuff I know so far ->
-We can duck under lazers, and if the SHDL is not perfect we don't even have to crouch.
-He gets CGed pretty bad
-He CGs us too T_T
-We **** him offstage, kinda.
-Falco's hat is great but Falco still has a reflector. It helps at edgeguard vs phantom if I'm unsure whether he'll go onstage directly or target the ledge.

Am I missing something ?
Also, where to CP him, and what stages should I avoid ?

Thx =)

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ I have yet to see a Falco main chain grab Kirby well. Sadly, I don't know the Falco match up to say. ☆

☆ Also the Star Shot from Kirby's back side has been found out for a while, though surprising, it's only useful in doubles for a surprise attack. ☆

 

[Kewkky]

-Falco can CG us only to about 25%, then we can get out of it by DIing up and towards Falco and jumping (even the walking CG).
-Yes, our bair destroys all his recovery options offstage. It even goes through his phantasm! And if he decides on using his upB, spike it with dair then edgehog when he's low enough... You have enough jumps to do this safely.
-Lasers are good as an edgeguard, but I personally prefer NOT having a power. A single mistake by Falco would mean an inhale, which would lead to kirbicide>footstool, or inhale>spit under stage>uair stage spike.
-Yes, we can **** him with our grabs since his ground and aerial game is THAT close range. If we shield an attack of his (unless it's a spaced fsmash), we're almost assured a shieldgrab, and we all know how Kirby gets when he grabs someone...!