Kirby Question and Answer/Helpful Thread directory! <(^_^)>

[fromundaman]

Check the discussion about this MU on the Falco boards. It is more informative than ours.

Also, they can CG us to 25%, but after that can follow up with other stuff.

 

[rvkevin]

Is Kirby's Bair his best momentum cancel?

 

[~Shao~]

Yes

10yeses

 

[tekkie]

what are kirby's good and bad stages?

 

[A1lion835]

what are kirby's good and bad stages?

Rainbow Cruise, Jungle Japes and Brinstar are 3 of his best stages, but you have to be careful who you take there (like mk on RC, or Falco on Jungle Japes, or a bunch of characters on Brinstar, typically those who have crappy recoveries and get saved by the lava). Brinstar, in general, is a better Kirby stage than RC or JJ, but it offers advantages for more opponents (You will often be in situations where it is a better idea than RC or JJ, but you will almost equally often be in a situation where is a worse idea than RC or JJ). Pokemon Stadium 1 is also a GREAT Kirby stage, no other character is better there than him IMO. It should be a huge part of your stage roster. Delfino is also a good Kirby stage. Some stages you should avoid...Kirby is good on all stages in general, just stay away from stages where your opponent is helped more than you. Halberd is something you typically don't want to choose, but I guess it could be helpful vs some chars.

Kirby doesn't really have any "bad" neutrals, it all depends on your personal preferences and who you're playing against (NEVER take a snake to FD...).

For more stage info, go to Viper's Awesome Stage Guide Thread Thing with every legal stage covered and counterpicks for a bunch of characters.

tl;dr version: Rainbow Cruise, Jungle Japes, Brinstar are your 3 main counterpicks. PS1 should be one of your most-used counters (especially vs most A/S tiers, like MK or G&W, who you have nowhere else to take). Delfino is also good, but there are a few people you don't wanna take there. No bad neutrals, just be careful who you take where. Read Viper's thread.

"tl;dr version" is tl;dr version: When in doubt, choose Pokemon Stadium 1.

Hope I answered your question, and good luck.

 

[Asdioh]

A1, take me out of your sig >=(

Tekkie, stages with Kirby mainly come down to personal preference. A1 and I will tell you Brinstar's a great Kirby stage, but a lot of people disagree. Most people agree that Rainbow Cruise is a great stage for Kirby, but I hate it and never go there if I can help it. Jungle Japes is also a decent Kirby stage.

There's also Frigate Orpheon, every neutral, Lylat Cruise (if it's not neutral), Pokemon Stadium (Melee) has an amazing amount of tricks Kirby can do there, Pictochat (same as Pokemon Stadium, lots of tricks), Delfino is good unless your opponent is one that can spike you in the water easily, yeah.

Any stage you feel comfortable on with Kirby is a good stage.

 

[tekkie]

Pokemon Stadium (Melee) has an amazing amount of tricks Kirby can do there, Pictochat (same as Pokemon Stadium, lots of tricks)

can you elaborate/direct me to a thread about this?

 

[fromundaman]

I posted this like a dozen times in the stage guide. I'll try to dig that up for you tomorrow.

Also, Pictochat is amazing as well.

 

[A1lion835]

A1, take me out of your sig >=(

I forgot I even sigged that. Plus, it's buried by other parts of my sig and only visible in smash blue (which I do use).

can you elaborate/direct me to a thread about this?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221595

^^Kirby's Warpstar Adventure, a stage guide created by Viper.

 

[fromundaman]

Okay, whole bunch of quotes from the stage thread (which honestly needs links to discussion pages!):

Pictochat:

post edited with transformations I forgot

How can you not know how to do the Stone glitch? Just turn into a Stone the middle/upper left part of the right side, either on the ground or from the air. I'm not sure if you can fall off the stage if you transform too far to the right. And this only works on the right ledge, and I think another random part or two of the stage's transformations.

For the stage itself, it's actually really good for Kirby. He can take advantage of most of the transformations pretty well, though I personally like some of them less than others. I find the wind-blowing guy to be annoying, for example.

on the left: pretty good for Kirby. You can Stone someone pretty easily if you're on the head, and they're stuck to the right of the head.

roller coaster thing: annoying, but Kirby can make use of it. I wonder what would happen if you upthrow through the hitbox? Kirby is invincible, but it might hit his opponent...
edit: what fromundaman said. That's what I thought happened: Kirby just kind of stops in midair, and the opponent gets hit by it.

fire: pretty annoying, but each hit only does 1% damage so whatever...

whale: it's ok. Stone can slide around, so you can use it with less chance of being punished. Stone glitch might work on the right part of the spout's water, I don't know, I haven't memorized all the Stone glitch spots in this game ._.

boxes: can be annoying to me, but overall not too bad. I think Final Cutter can go through the walls, at least if you're on the inside. Not sure.

bullets (or rockets or whatever they are): I hate these things O_O inhale->starshot into them could work pretty well...or you could Bair someone or fsmash them into it. Again, I wonder what happens if you Upthrow through one....

wind blowing guy: ANNOYING. (imo) ... maybe you could use it to your advantage. It might cause someone to mess up (like doing an aerial if you push them off the stage or something) I dunno.

Ladder thing: pretty basic. A long line on top, and a ladder on the right and left. You can taunt your opponent by climbing up one ladder, running across the top, and then sliding down the other ladder. That just looks funny.

Springs on the side: yeah, you can go through them with stone. That's about it...DON'T KILL YOURSELF by turning into a Stone right before they disappear, or you'll look like a noob.

house or whatever it is that creates ledges on the sides: prevents you from doing the Stone glitch. Darn.

spikes on the sides: makes for good laughs.

piranha plant: upthrow into it...heck, do anything into it. duh. it's pretty good.

the clock hands: you can do the stone glitch at a CERTAIN time on one of the hands, but it's not really useful. Good for combos and stuff.



These are all the ones I could think of. o_O

I actually don't use the Stone glitch much in an actual match, I feel like it's almost "cheating." Kinda like planking with MK.

But now that I think about it, it's not banned, and I've never seen anyone complain about it. I should abuse it as an edgeguard, to its fullest potential :]

I can just see myself winning a game because of the Stone glitch on a recovering Falco or whatever XD


Overall, 4 stars, possibly MORE if you really know how to use the stage changes to your advantage.

The Infinite stone on the clock hands that Asdioh mentions works at certain times can be used more to stall your stone, since if timed right, it'll slide to the stone glitch spot, glitch right when it should have fallen, then fall a second or two later. This can punish people who run in to try and punish you after you *should* have landed.

This is a pretty good Kirby stage.

-We get the infinite stone glitch and sliding stone in a lot of places on this level.
-The hands of the clock can occasionally create combos.
-The wind makes Kirbicides easier to pull off.
-You can shark through a lot of these transformations.
-If you're inside the block pyramid and do FC, you teleport to the block right above and do an instant FC shockwave. You can do this until you get to the top block. I believe we also have the infinite stone on the edge of the second block on the right side.
-The fire sucks... It knocks people around but does **** for damage and doesn't kill... It;s really just annoying.
-Springs and the house don't help us at all (well, the house allows stone slides, but that's it.).
-Bullets are meh... I usually manage to hit someone into them.
-If you Uthrow on the roller coaster thing, the cart hits your enemy and you just kind of stop on the track. It looks funny and is a good way to get a kill.
-Spikes: If you're lucky you can land a Uthrow on them as they appear (you really can't plan it, but it looks funny when it happens) to cause a double kill. Otherwise, I believe FC shockwave goes through them, allowing you to camp.

Pictochat is amazing; it's my favorite stage for Kirbzz. Stone glitch, uthrow on a lot of formations for low % kills, high ceiling otherwise, small side boundaries and walls, which Kirby can do tons of damage on with his jab flurry. Just know the stage and know where the "safe zones" are for transformations. It transforms every 13.3 seconds.

You can get really creative on this stage...

Also, the low bottom boundary is great for messing up other characters like GAW and DDD.

This stage is great against many characters, like ones Kirby has trouble with (Meta, ROB, GAW). Of course, you need to know the stage better than them to get a sizable advantage on it...

PS1:

Arg, wait! I have things to say!

This stage is amazing besides the fact that it allows us to do pretty much every glitch or exploit that Kirby can do in this game (Stone glitch, FC through stage obstacles, one, and possibly two infinites, Ninja spikes, suicide throws, etc.).

Anyway, on the neutral stage, we can ninja spike, and... that's about all we have for exploits. Otherwise, it has a high ceiling, somewhat far sides, and a few platforms to aid with comboing. This basically makes us hard to kill and helps with our gimping. This stage also screws over a lot of characters due to that lip, and we can easily stage spike. As an added bonus, people can't go under the stage to avoid us.

Next, Fire stage:

-If you're good at teching the tree you can survive a while longer.
-Uthrow with your back to the tree can kill earlier than normal Uthrows.
-FC's sholckwave travels through the tree, regardless of the direction you're spamming in.
-Doing FC under the branch on the left side of the tree allows you to spam it fairly fast, and pretty much free of punishment.
-I *believe* you can Dtilt lock people under the branch of that tree.
-The top of the branch is pretty good for combing as well.


The water stage:

-Windmill allows for more combos, and allows you to spam FC without fear of punishment.
-Suicide throws.
-The windmill allows for some interesting stone slides.
-I've managed to do Uthrows that result in landing on the windmill in such a way that they bounce directly into one of the blades and spikes them down, creating a weird stagespike.
-I don't really play on the other side of this form much, so I can't say much about it. That windmill is too good!


Grass stage:

-You can do the stone glitch on the right side of the tree branch. It is amazingly useful since few people know it, and due to the angle, it hits above and below the branch.
-The platforms can help with combos as well.
-Not much to say on this one.


The Earth stage:

-This is the best stage IMO.
-We can camp in the middle, since FC shockwave can go through the rock as long as the blade is touching the rock, and we can regulate the height by landing on different platforms.
-If the try to stop us by camping by coming in the middle to attack us (or attempt to set up for wall infinites), we can jab infinite them (just be careful to end it before 300%, because it takes a little bit to end the jabs, and far too often I've accidentaly had it end at like 320% instead of 300%. **** it racks up damage too fast...
-The left side is pretty cool for us too. We can Uthrow with our back to the mountain and get quick kills, FC camp there too, and possibly even get stone kills, since it can be hard to avoid there.



Yeah, this stage is amazing.

Also, I didn't know at the time of the quote, but you can do the infinite stone glitch on the windmill as well.
Oh, and just so you know, if you play a Sonic on this stage, his SideB glitches on the same part of the grass stage that your rock does, and turns him into an immobile invincible hitbox. Wait it out or try to clash with it (Waiting it out is better).

 

[tekkie]

so besides generally getting used to kirby's moves and gonzo combo what is there worth learning?

 

[fromundaman]

What you can do on each stage, what combos Kirby can do and imporovising to make new ones on the spot, Dthrow follow ups, matchups, and after that, the situational stuff. Granted, most of this falls into the generally getting used to Kirby thing.

He's really not a tough char to learn.

EDIT: Oh, and check the OP for a list of useful threads.

 

['V']

Does Kirby's Stone hitbox change for each iteration of it?

 

[Galaxy]

Does Kirby's Stone hitbox change for each iteration of it?

I don't think so.

 

[A1lion835]

Does Kirby's Stone hitbox change for each iteration of it?

Depends what you mean by iteration. If you're asking whether the aerial hitbox has a different hitbox than the grounded one, I think the answer is yes (grounded has more horizontal range).

 

[Triple R]

Depends what you mean by iteration. If you're asking whether the aerial hitbox has a different hitbox than the grounded one, I think the answer is yes (grounded has more horizontal range).

I thought he was asking about the different shapes of down b.

 

[Lord Viper]

I thought he was asking about the different shapes of down b.

☆ I'm guessing he did since he said iteration of Stone. But really, every Stone is the same, though I think that Lip's Block from of Stone has a little more range, but that's just my thoughts. ☆

 

[Kewkky]

☆ I'm guessing he did since he said iteration of Stone. But really, every Stone is the same, though I think that Lip's Block from of Stone has a little more range, but that's just my thoughts. ☆

They're all the same, they all carry the same hitboxes/hurtboxes, and neither is better than the other.

 

[tekkie]

when kirbyciding how can one guarantee that your opponent pops out but kirby can recover? is there a timing for it or something? does mashing the jump button help?

 

[A1lion835]

when kirbyciding how can one guarantee that your opponent pops out but kirby can recover? is there a timing for it or something? does mashing the jump button help?

No guaranteed way. Here's a section of fromundaman's guide on inhale about footstooling people out of an inhale:

Characters that I KNOW FS Kirby:

-MK
-DK (Yeah, I know, this one surprised me too)
-Mario
-Luigi
-Peach (though she can be FSed if she doesn't try to FS us.)
-Kirby (the inhaled Kirby seems to get the footstool)
-Olimar (Awww... it was too good to be true.)
-Samus

Characters that get FSd unless they DI away from Kirby (which, in most cases, is away from the stage as well.):

-Fox
-Falco (he can avoid being FSed if he doesn't DI and mashes jump. If he doesn't mash jump, or DIs towards the stage (AKA tries to recover), he gets FSed.)
-Wolf (He gets FSed unless he DIs away from Kirby. If Kirby has his back to the stage, then Wolf would have to DI away from the stage, and as a result cannot recover.)
-Shiek
-Ganon (Same as Wolf)
-ZSS (She can also DownB or UpB to avoid being FSed, but she doesn't recover either way, unless maybe if she is within UpB range of the stage. She is also one of the easiest to inhale gay since it is so easy to inhale her out of her recovery, since, as good as it is, it's very easy to predict her trajectory.)
-Bowser (His hurtbox is kind of weird though, so you actually have to start trying to FS earlier than it looks like you should.)
-Snake (Mash jump. If he doesn't DI away, it will result in a footstool. If he does DI away, he can't Bomb jump. Since that counts as a grab release, inhale breaks don't give back his cypher either. Basically, he gets screwed. Also, you need to be moving forward very slightly while he's in your mouth to get the FS.)
-Ike (I remember testing him, but didn't record the results, so I don't remember exactly how you have to DI to get the FS, but if I remember correctly, you had to move forward slightly before he breaks out, then the only way he can avoid the footstool is to DI away, which leaves him unable to recover.)

Characters that either FS Kirby or neither one gets FSd:

-Lucario
-TL (almost certain he FSs us)
-Diddy
-Yoshi (Someone, I think it was Viper, has also told me that Yoshi FSs Kirby, so I’m pretty sure this one is correct, though I haven’t personally tested it.)
-Marth (I’m pretty much certain this ****er FSs us… as if he didn’t have enough on us already…)
-G&W (Same as Marth)
-Ness
-Lucas
-Luigi
-Peach
-Wario
-Zelda
-ROB (He only FSs us if we try to chase him for the FS. otherwise, neither gets a FS.)
-Pit
-ICs
-Jigglypuff
-Squirtle
-Ivysaur (see Olimar)
-Mewtwo (Don’t feel bad. He’s so broken he FSs everyone out of a FS, and he can even get a Dtilt on you out of it somehow. He’s just that broken.)


Characters that I think can be FSd if you follow DI:

-Pikachu
-Sonic (see above)
-D3 (He can escape by doing his UpB.)
-Link
-CF (Maybe? Having a hard time figuring this one out.)
-Charizard (See above)

 

[fromundaman]

Heh, I must have editted the list and forgotten to edit Sonic's comment... oops.

 

[H8 Making Names]

could i get some tips on fighting wario?
some ideal stages would be nice to :D
thanks alot, really appreciate it :D

 

[Kewkky]

could i get some tips on fighting wario?
some ideal stages would be nice to :D
thanks alot, really appreciate it :D

Utilt a lot, and choose platformed stages like Battlefield. Our utilt range beats out most of his attacks' ranges, so try and hold those temptations at bay.

 

[fromundaman]

Utilt and Ftilt help a lot VS Wario.

Be careful of his ridiculous airdodges and spotdodges, and watch the clock. He will usually try to Waft before the two minutes elapse, but after 1:30.

Bair, Fair, and Uair help a lot as well, and Dair is always good.
Be careful of his SA Fsmash, as well as his SA Bite.


On a side note, I recently found out Uair outranges MK's Dair. Wow. Never realized how awesomely disjoincted that move's range was.

 

[0^2]

It seems like it when I use it, but I'm curious. Does the f-throw -> up-air practically always work, as long as I DI towards the opponent correctly? This has been my number one start up.

 

[A1lion835]

It seems like it when I use it, but I'm curious. Does the f-throw -> up-air practically always work, as long as I DI towards the opponent correctly? This has been my number one start up.

It does on ALMOST the entire cast. Here are the exceptions:

Meta Knight: He can use his nair before you uair.

Mario: He can jump or upb before you uair.

Marth: He can upb before you uair.

Sheik: Her hurtbox is weird, so you have to hesitate slightly before the uair or you'll miss, allowing her to jump out (she can also nair you).

 

[0^2]

Ah. Thanks. I have to keep these exceptions in mind. This combo has become my signature locally, hence there being no real Kirby users (thankfully). It's become a force of habit so I'll have to ween myself off using it on those characters.

For Sheik, though, I do d-throw -> u-air -> u-air -> u-smash(sometimes), or b-air/u-air. Is this effective?

 

[0^2]

Sorry about this second post, but I've seen talk of 'angled smashes' or something of the sort. I just watched a video of a Kirby fighting a Falco and the Kirby executed his f-smash but the foot was angled downwards.

I guess this can be viewed as a general question, but do I simply angle the control stick accordingly after inputting the command to smash?

 

[Smoom77]

I looked the Kirby guide and research topic, but I couldn't find any frame data on airdodges. I only need one thing. How many start-up frames does his airdodge have? I would really appreciate if you could VM me instead of posting here because I'm doing a mass search of airdodge data.

 

[Asdioh]

For Sheik, though, I do d-throw -> u-air -> u-air -> u-smash(sometimes), or b-air/u-air. Is this effective?

dthrow->utilt might work on Sheik, I don't remember. Due to her weird hurtbox after Fthrow though, using Fair instead of Uair might be a good idea.

I guess this can be viewed as a general question, but do I simply angle the control stick accordingly after inputting the command to smash?

Yes. Upward angle does 16%, normal does 15%, and downward does 14%. Upward also has the most knockback, I think. Downward is better for hitting them while shielding, particularly if it's a taller character, or their shield isn't full, or they're angling their shield upwards. Downward also sets up for gimping/edgehogging better.

 

[fromundaman]

It does on ALMOST the entire cast. Here are the exceptions:

Meta Knight: He can use his nair before you uair.

Mario: He can jump or upb before you uair.

Marth: He can upb before you uair.

Sheik: Her hurtbox is weird, so you have to hesitate slightly before the uair or you'll miss, allowing her to jump out (she can also nair you).

And some characters with fast sex kicks, like Mario, Weegee, Sheik, possibly Fox, Yoshi, etc.

 

[Kewkky]

And some characters with fast sex kicks, like Mario, Weegee, Sheik, possibly Fox, Yoshi, etc.

Fox and Yoshi can't get out of the fthrow combo with attacks. Mario doesn't have a sex kick, but he can upB out of it. Everyone else, right on the spot.

 

[Delta-cod]

All Yoshi has to do is Double Jump and the armor will just soak the hit, preventing any further chains. It should also be possible to Nair immediately after tanking the hit, so Kirby doesn't get off scott free.

The DJ escape is guaranteed, and it ruins Kirby's low percent throw combos.

 

[fromundaman]

Fox and Yoshi can't get out of the fthrow combo with attacks. Mario doesn't have a sex kick, but he can upB out of it. Everyone else, right on the spot.

No, Mario does have a sex kick (Nair), and it comes out faster than the Uair. Yoshi's either comes out faster or clanks as well, can't remember which.

All Yoshi has to do is Double Jump and the armor will just soak the hit, preventing any further chains. It should also be possible to Nair immediately after tanking the hit, so Kirby doesn't get off scott free.

The DJ escape is guaranteed, and it ruins Kirby's low percent throw combos.

Really? I know the beginning of Yoshi's DJ doesn't have SA, and I thought the Uair would hit before the SA would kick in, though TBA I never tried it, since Nair works better anyway.

 

[Delta-cod]

The Nair and Uair will trade hits I think, and Kirby can punish the hitlag from the clank, from my experience, so I usually DJ away.

The armor also starts RIGHT as the DJ begins. Here's the frame data:

Double Jump
Super Armor: 1-69
Cute Sound <3: 5

Bolded is the important part. It starts at Frame 1.

 

[fromundaman]

Hmmm... But during the part where he dips down he can be hit out of it...

 

[Delta-cod]

Frame data does not lie. XD

It may be because whoever you're playing is trying to AD/aerial while DJing. The AD has a couple frames of vulnerability before the invincibility frames kick in. During those frames you can just get hit out. This is why we airdodge BEFORE we get too close when recovering, rather than on top of you. It prevent us getting knocked out.

 

[fromundaman]

Hmmm... when I can find my wiimote I'll check. Might just be faulty memory, but I could have sworn there was a point in the beginning where you could get knocked out (Also, wrong, frame data can lie, edpending on how accurately it was taken. I remember an old thread with Pit frame data that said his Nair came out frame 1 and lasted until frame 4, so....).

 

[Delta-cod]

IIRC, this frame data was taken by a frame data hack. Also, it's the general knowledge for Yoshis to know when the armor starts. The first (couple of?) frame of armor is key to a certain form of DR(Wavedash thing) that allows you to tank a hit and punish with your own. Wouldn't work if you were knocked out at the start.

Also, it may have been a high percent and a move that's strong enough to knock him out of the armor. Some can knock him out as early as 40%, some earlier(Ganon/Ness Spike, the rest aren't really feasible.), so it may have been that.

 

[A1lion835]

Also, it may have been a high percent and a move that's strong enough to knock him out of the armor. Some can knock him out as early as 40%, some earlier(Ganon/Ness Spike, the rest aren't really feasible.), so it may have been that.

You just reminded me, I could swear stone hit Yoshi out of his DJ.