Kirby Match-Up Advice thread!

[Kewkky]

Do NOT Uthrow them though. Yeah, you can go straight through a hit on the way up, but not on the way down. It's too easy for the IC player to just charge a Usmash and wait for you to come back down, then hit you with a move that will not only probably kill you, but also cancels your throw meaning you died or took a charged smash for literally nothing.

Man, why doesn't anyone read that I said on out-of-reach platforms and NOT on flat stages? An uthrow will kill the IC after a certain %, and on stages like (parts of) RC, it's a good move to use and you SHOULD use it..

- VS Wolf, I see no reason to ever take his power. It's not bad, but if you're anywhere near an edge, a guaranteed footstool is better, and if you're not, spitting him out gives 10% + allows you to punish a landing.

Harassing him to use his reflector is also a good thing.

-Lucario: Maybe I'm just bad with aura sphere, but I really don't think this power is worth getting, or for that matter that you should even try to inhale in this MU unless you KNOW it will hit. It's hard as hell to land, and supposing you do land it, you get punished hard-ish for copying (Dair, and with how Lucario works, that can mean a lot of damage depending on the situation), and starshotting might net you a punish (most Lucarios will Dair because honestly, who inhales and starshots other than me? If they buffer a Dair during a starshot you can punish with Fair or I *think* DA.).

You use it as a punisher and harassing tool. If you shoot it all willy-nilly then it won't hit, but if you read a second jump then shoot it in that direction, he eats it. Also, it's a good edgeguarding tool. Lucario wants to aim for the ledge, you jump down and shoot a fully-charged one. He airdodges out of fear he might get hit, now he's too low to make it to the stage so he aims for the ledge, where you'll greet him with a dair>footstool.

Just two examples.

-Hup Cancel in front of people's shields (out of grab range but within our Fsmash range.). No seriously. If you haven't been spamming it, people will think you just messed up and gave yourself lag and drop their shield to punish. I have landed a good number of Hup cancel>Fsmash kills this way in the last 3-4 tournies I've attended (usually 4-6 a tourny in my pool matches.).

That's more of a gimmick though. Once the opponent realizes what it is you're doing he'll be wary of falling for the same thing again. Kinda like ledhehopped inhales and how opponents refuse to approach you on the ledge after the first inhale>footstool.

Hmm, maybe I should do a little thing in the end for random non-MU-specific random tips...

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

I tend to have one kinda annoying habit with Kirby is being cocky when I'm keeping players from ever making it back or I Bair them and hit I lose count on the jumps I used and miss the blasted edge due to be too low to hit the edge with Final Cutter. Doesn't happen much but it is something I do when I goof around too much.

 

[kirbydabest]

ok idk if my advice is really reliable but eh im bored xD

Diddy- if u get one of his naners dont just simply throw it back to him in an attempt to approach hes just gonna powershield and guess what he has two naners again. Instead keep the naner behind u force him to approach u and go get it cus now u limit him to one naner, and have a chance to maybe get both his naners leaving him with few options to approach.

snake- UTILT=DEATH, to keep from getting camped which is usually a kirby's worst nightmare (or mine at least xD). Get into snake's pancake mix dont give him the chance to camp u get in close utilt>bair string just dont let him get set up with his nades, c4, ect...

Again this probably isnt accurate so dont take any of this as fact just things I do against these two MUs that i hate with a passion correct me if im wrong cus im 100% sure that i probably im xD

 

[fromundaman]

Man, why doesn't anyone read that I said on out-of-reach platforms and NOT on flat stages? An uthrow will kill the IC after a certain %, and on stages like (parts of) RC, it's a good move to use and you SHOULD use it..

Oops, must have missed that.

Harassing him to use his reflector is also a good thing.

IDK... I mean, yes it is, but Wolf's reflector doesn't reflect during the invul frames (If you try it goes inside your shield and hits you when the invul wears off, which is dumb), meaning if you want to reflect you have to either predict it or be far enough away to pull it out way before it reaches you. All in all, for a projectile like that, I think it's more advantageous for Wolf to shield.

You use it as a punisher and harassing tool. If you shoot it all willy-nilly then it won't hit, but if you read a second jump then shoot it in that direction, he eats it. Also, it's a good edgeguarding tool. Lucario wants to aim for the ledge, you jump down and shoot a fully-charged one. He airdodges out of fear he might get hit, now he's too low to make it to the stage so he aims for the ledge, where you'll greet him with a dair>footstool.

Just two examples.

Well, I'm bad with his power, but that wasn't what I meant. I mean that A) Lucario has enough range that landing that inhale is hard, and B) going for a copy gets you hit with a Dair which I personally don't think is worth it, especially if he's at a high %.

That's more of a gimmick though. Once the opponent realizes what it is you're doing he'll be wary of falling for the same thing again. Kinda like ledhehopped inhales and how opponents refuse to approach you on the ledge after the first inhale>footstool.

Very much so, yes. That being said, it looks like a normal Dair when you start it, and really, your opponent can't know if you're going to FF and cancel it or not at first. If they aren't falling for it (AKA keeping their shield up), you can Dair through them for shield pressure, then follow up with Utilt and either the landing hit or Utilt should shieldpoke. This is one of those cases though where I wish Kirby had just a *little* more aerial mobility though, to make it safer and not have to commit to it as hard.
That being said, yes, very much a gimmick and something to use sparingly IMO. However, it does seem to work often, and honestly, if it can give you an early kill in a set, then I think it's worth using.




Oh and Kirbies, insta-throw more. It helps me a lot vs TL, Snake, and Diddy.

 

[Kewkky]

I don't insta-throw, I just zcatch>zthrow. There's not really that much difference between the two from what I tested, and it's also what I do in Melee with items so it's better for me. But yeaaaah, if other people were to decide on which to learn, I'd say insta-throw.

 

[fromundaman]

Insta-throw is better for Snake since he usually doesn't have time to grenade strip if you do that.
For Diddy it really depends on where he is.
For TL I agree actually.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Insta-throw is better for Snake since he usually doesn't have time to grenade strip if you do that.
For Diddy it really depends on where he is.
For TL I agree actually.

I'm like that too when up against Snake.

Edit: I played some more with the abilities and out of all the characters I'd say Zero Suit Samus' ability is the best. It is great when I need to recover or foil players recovering.

 

[D Who?]

-Lucario: Maybe I'm just bad with aura sphere, but I really don't think this power is worth getting, or for that matter that you should even try to inhale in this MU unless you KNOW it will hit. It's hard as hell to land, and supposing you do land it, you get punished hard-ish for copying (Dair, and with how Lucario works, that can mean a lot of damage depending on the situation), and starshotting might net you a punish (most Lucarios will Dair because honestly, who inhales and starshots other than me? If they buffer a Dair during a starshot you can punish with Fair or I *think* DA.).


Kirbys aura sphere works the same way Lucario's does, just without the aura buff. But when you get him off the edge, throw them out there. Lucario needs his second jump due to how bad his recovery is so if you force the air dodge then he has to use the jump.
If he does his UpB anywhere, punish with aura spere (the start up lag is like 18 frames). Scare him whenever he gets in the air. If you throw the aura speheres at him while he's trying to approach, they will make it hell for him. Besides, if they approach from the air and space nair wrong, do non charged aura sphere to bair.

Once you get his power, if you have the stock lead, just run around and shoot them at him all day. I think the power makes this match in Kirbys favor... But if you want to get it, do it in the beginning of the match. Lucario deals no damage. You inhale and they hit you coming out of it- it's loltastic.

 

[Sage JoWii]

GAAAAAWWWDDDDDDDAMN D WHO? WHO??? WHO?!?!???

Exactly. Good post, correct info/advice, GET ****ING WRECKED FROMUNDA.

Juss sayin'.

 

[D Who?]

Lol, thank you. One day I'll be able to contribute more.

 

[fromundaman]

Haha, okay. I just suck with that power then. IDK... I play against a Lucario fairly often, and I suck so hard with that power it's not even funny.
Maybe that's also part of why Lucario is one of the few characters I can't seem to play at all...

 

[D Who?]

I can give you direct help. Do you have any matches posted with him/her? Even friendlies that I can watch?

 

[fromundaman]

Not where I take his power
Like I said, it usually hinders me, and I don't really need it vs Lucario.

 

[D Who?]

Just get a good friendly with him and I'll help you see what you could have done instead. But play the match hard.

 

[fromundaman]

Haha, I'll try to get one played and recorded then.

 

[D Who?]

Alright, cool. So I have a weird but situational question. When you're playing metaknight and you're zoning them and spacing with bair, how safe is bair? Cause my training partner plays MK and I have been noticing that if I rising bair even if he doesn't power sheild it, he can still run up and grab me before I land of the move is even done. He also has dash attacked me and dsmashed me. Is there a way to buffer a jump in after the SH rising Bair?

 

[Kewkky]

Bair isn't safe against MK. In that MU, you're supposed to play a bait-and-punish game instead of the same ol' bair bair bair. Keep an eye on what MK does and punish HIM, instead of doing stuff for him to punish you. It's easier said than done, but practice definitely helps. Too bad I don't have any recent videos of me vs any MKs, else I could show you what I do in the MU. :/

 

[D Who?]

Alright. I'll practice later tonight. I'm training hard for this tourny coming up next weekend

 

[t!MmY]

B-air isn't always safe against MK. Not only does he have the high ground speed to run in and punish as you land, he can also hit your toes with his swords just by jumping around and throwing out F-airs. Listen to Kewkky when he says to go for punishing Meta Knight instead of B-air camping.

But to answer your question, yes you can do a rising B-air and jump again before hitting the ground. I use Y to jump, so it's a quick flick of the thumb to go from Y to A for my B-air, and then back to Y right before hitting the ground (usually to do another B-air). If you have L set o Jump (I think that's what you said somewhere) you shouldn't have too much trouble to L-button jump and buffer into a B-air.

 

[Kewkky]

Oh, and also, if you're against MK, I'd recommend fullhopped bairs instead of shorthopped ones. SH can be punished easily and in different ways by MK, but you can oftentimes get away with FH ones with negligible damage (like when he fairs your toes, since you're spacing your bair you're already SDI'ing away from him so as soon as his fair hits your toes, you get out of the attack quickly and find yourself taking 3%-6% damage only, depending on how many hits he got you with).

 

[D Who?]

Legit. Thanks again

 

[fromundaman]

Also, don't Bair his shield. SL OoS FTL.

 

[P.I.E.]

Sorry ot bother you wonderful people, but what do you think of the pros and cons of a ness matchup with kirby?

 

[Kewkky]

Sorry ot bother you wonderful people, but what do you think of the pros and cons of a ness matchup with kirby?

Well, the pro is that we don't have to worry as much about Ness's bthrow because we'll be in the air most of the time once we hit kill %, and we can kill you and gimp you easily since Kirby's a gimping machine while Ness doesn't exactly have the easiest time recovering from being knocked off at lower angles. The con is that we can die at like what, ~100% from a bthrow? Well, that and your fair irritates us. That's pretty much the gist of it. Or did you want something more in depth?

 

[t!MmY]

Pro: Cool baseball cap when we Copy Ness.
Con: It doesn't give us Yo-Yo Kirby powers.

 

[MikeKirby]

Dude, Kirby with a Yo-yo would be boss!!

Uh... yeah, that F-air is annoying! =_=

 

[P.I.E.]

. That's pretty much the gist of it. Or did you want something more in depth?

Nope you don't exactly have to unless you wanted to.

Pro: Cool baseball cap when we Copy Ness.
Con: It doesn't give us Yo-Yo Kirby powers.

But it gives you pk flash which is incredibly useful in doubles if ness is your partner and at high %'s (pkmagnet healing) xD


Well all I've got is that kirby would have to get close to get me, so my thunder and a bit of pk jump would help me. And I've bee told to stay above him while he's airborne, that's about it @_@'

Thanks for the feedback though

 

[Kewkky]

Nope you don't exactly have to unless you wanted to.

I'd much rather do it if you asked me to, I don't want to type stuff up and have it overlooked or skimmed through, you know?

But it gives you pk flash which is incredibly useful in doubles if ness is your partner and at high %'s (pkmagnet healing) xD


Well all I've got is that kirby would have to get close to get me, so my thunder and a bit of pk jump would help me. And I've bee told to stay above him while he's airborne, that's about it @_@'

Thanks for the feedback though

PK Flash isn't that useful, it takes too long to start, Kirby'll probably cancel it before it gets to Ness if his opponent starts running towards him.

Kirby always has to get close to get to everyone, we're a close-ranged character, but he can follow you anywhere and everywhere. If you ask me, staying below him is a better idea than above him. Behind him isn't a good idea either. As for in front of him, I think that THAT is where you want to be, fairing at everything Kirby does, but remember that your fair is punishable too if you start spamming it, else the MU wouldn't be what it is right now.

 

[P.I.E.]

But when I'm below him, I always get dair or bair xD I can't exactly avoid bair, since the kirby I usually fight almost always tries to corner me with it T~T

I get what you're saying though (I tried staying above once, and recieved a stairway to heaven)

However the flash thing.... you should try it! Kirbydabest and I love using it in doubles, if it's not completely charged, since I'm always in air above him xP

 

[Kewkky]

But when I'm below him, I always get dair or bair xD I can't exactly avoid bair, since the kirby I usually fight almost always tries to corner me with it T~T

I get what you're saying though (I tried staying above once, and recieved a stairway to heaven)

You can uair him, or use PK Thunder. Or you could wait for him to get ready to dair, then move out of the way or shield and punish.

However the flash thing.... you should try it! Kirbydabest and I love using it in doubles, if it's not completely charged, since I'm always in air above him xP

For healing it's alright if you're safe while doing it, but only time you can do that is if one of your opponents just died off the top and the other one is running away, or something else that takes just as long. Then again, I never copy anyone's abilities and I kirbicide them instead, so I can't say I've tried back at home against the other top PR players.

 

[t!MmY]

Actually, yeah PK flash is fun in doubles. If I'm in the clear and everyone else is in a scuffle together, I like throwing it at them because the opponents have to put up a shield and Ness can put up a Magnet. It recovers a huge amount of damage too. It works great in a 2v1 situation so that Ness can do the fighting and Kirby can camp while healing.

For most of the match though it's pretty hard to use, but the baseball cap is always great. It powers up Kirby's mindgames x100.

 

[WindMajor]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=303729

You can hup cancel all over this thread if you want.

 

[smash brother]

kirby vs. ike tips

mine when ike uses b sideways and u are at the edge press b it will still hit you but he will still be flying into his death or if its not charged u might eat him and it wont hit you

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Kirby nair destroys sonic approaches. I never thought it'd be so useful. But I've played a slew of em lately, and that nair is saving my hide.

 

[Kewkky]

I can see a couple of ways Sonic could beat out our nair. Run up, hold shield, wait til the nair hits the shield, grab. Even running into the nair and shielding does the job. He could ftilt, bair it, trade hits with it... I dunno. I'll have to try it out eventually to see what you mean. I personally find utilt to be much more amazing than nair. Stay still and utilt whenever you think he's going to come close and he can't approach. He now has to find some mixup and hope you do something silly for him to get you.

 

[Sky Pirate]

What is the general opinion on Ftilt against Olimar?
It seems really good, but I haven't gotten to play against any good Olimars yet.

 

[Kewkky]

Ftilt helps a lot. Freakin Olimar being grab happy and stuff... He tries pivot grabbing a lot of your stuff cuz that's what works against us. Usually when we approach he expects us to try a grab, and since ftilt has like 3x+ the range, it hits him before he even notices what's happening... It really depends on where and how you use it, you can't say "jump in and ftilt" since he can punish it in theory every time, but in practice you'll know when your ftilt is your best option.

I wish I could be more specific, but I need to record some replays of me vs Olimar and watch how I play so I can analyze myself. That's the best I can do right now. D:

 

[Sky Pirate]

Well, I kept mixing it in with Dash attack, Bair (rarely), Roll->Utilt, and airdodge->Dtilt/Grab.

At first I was just trolling with it, but then I noticed that:
A. it sends him at a weird angle.
B. it has range.
C. it comes out fast (frame 5 is actually faster than anything Olimar can throw out; Jab is an exception, but it's terrible anyway)

Has anyone gotten an approximate frame range for Ftilting Oli out of a pivot grab if you start it at point-blank range?

Also, how does Dtilt's range compare to Ftilt's?

 

[Kewkky]

From experience I'd say dtilt's range is smaller, but since it's got less ending frames than ftilt, it helps more if you think you might be hitting Olimar's shield.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Ahhhhhh, didn't even think of endlag.
Thank you very much, but I can't help but wonder when you sleep. ^^;