King of Evil Showdown! (Finished)

[Vermanubis]

Solidarity has been achieved in the race for King of Evil. The King of Evil is Vermanubis.

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

Lmfao at Verm having like 20 videos up with ray Kalm having none up.

 

[BigDaddy4]

who cares, being the best at the worst character in the game means nothing.

 

[DLA]

Kalm probably hasn't even seen the thread yet lol.

I'll say here what I've said before; I think most of the top Ganons are close enough in regards to their accomplishments and skills that it's futile to try to rank them objectively. Especially considering how different these two particular players' regions are.

I'm not sure if Kalm agreed to these criteria, but it seems to me that whatever he agrees on will be inevitably biased towards Verm. Not through any fault of Verm's, of course; it just so happens that Kalm lives in a frozen wasteland, and Verm lives on the east coast, a thriving hotbed of Smash activity (I know Ontario isn't a frozen wasteland, don't get salty Canada).

My point is that there are far too many variables to fairly judge this objectively. I also think there are too many variables to fairly judge this subjectively; how is the "King of Evil" position even defined? Is it the Ganon main with the most overall qualifications throughout his Ganon career, or is it the "hottest" Ganon main with the most relevant tournament results? Are we trying to determine the "king" of the Ganon boards, or the "king" of the metagame in general?

I'm not going to voice any opinion on who deserves the throne until the position is better defined, because right now it looks pretty ornamental to me. And even if you both reach a definition upon which you both agree, I still won't have much of an opinion to give because I haven't actually gotten to fight either of you offline, or see either of you play. IMO, videos that the player chooses and uploads himself aren't accurate cross-sections of a player's overall skill.

Personally, I think that instead of squabbling over a somewhat arbitrary position, I think we should hold off until a Ganon main clearly distinguishes himself over the rest of the Ganons. Because I don't think this has happened yet.

 

[Vermanubis]

Kalm probably hasn't even seen the thread yet lol.

I'll say here what I've said before; I think most of the top Ganons are close enough in regards to their accomplishments and skills that it's futile to try to rank them objectively. Especially considering how different these two particular players' regions are.

I'm not sure if Kalm agreed to these criteria, but it seems to me that whatever he agrees on will be inevitably biased towards Verm. Not through any fault of Verm's, of course; it just so happens that Kalm lives in a frozen wasteland, and Verm lives on the east coast, a thriving hotbed of Smash activity (I know Ontario isn't a frozen wasteland, don't get salty Canada).

My point is that there are far too many variables to fairly judge this objectively. I also think there are too many variables to fairly judge this subjectively; how is the "King of Evil" position even defined? Is it the Ganon main with the most overall qualifications throughout his Ganon career, or is it the "hottest" Ganon main with the most relevant tournament results? Are we trying to determine the "king" of the Ganon boards, or the "king" of the metagame in general?

I'm not going to voice any opinion on who deserves the throne until the position is better defined, because right now it looks pretty ornamental to me. And even if you both reach a definition upon which you both agree, I still won't have much of an opinion to give because I haven't actually gotten to fight either of you offline, or see either of you play. IMO, videos that the player chooses and uploads himself aren't accurate cross-sections of a player's overall skill.

Personally, I think that instead of squabbling over a somewhat arbitrary position, I think we should hold off until a Ganon main clearly distinguishes himself over the rest of the Ganons. Because I don't think this has happened yet.

My personal definition would be the Ganon who is the overall best in skill. Subsets of this qualification are representation, contribution, etc. I guess the best way to put this would be who is THE Ganon. Most iconic, representative, skilled, knowledgable, etc.

It IS very hard to objectively determine this position. But since it IS subjective, that's why we're going to try to get the community to judge. Tero brings up a good point, though. I have a lot of videos and Kalm has next to zero.

 

[Vermanubis]

who cares, being the best at the worst character in the game means nothing.

A painful truth.

*hangs head in defeat*

 

[Bahamut777]

Personally, I think that instead of squabbling over a somewhat arbitrary position, I think we should hold off until a Ganon main clearly distinguishes himself over the rest of the Ganons. Because I don't think this has happened yet.

DLA...
You opened my brain and took the words from my throat.
You dirty little desert warlock.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

My personal definition would be the Ganon who is the overall best in skill. Subsets of this qualification are representation, contribution, etc. I guess the best way to put this would be who is THE Ganon. Most iconic, representative, skilled, knowledgable, etc.

It IS very hard to objectively determine this position. But since it IS subjective, that's why we're going to try to get the community to judge. Tero brings up a good point, though. I have a lot of videos and Kalm has next to zero.

I only have "next to zero" because I obviously haven't given you any videos yet. It sounds like you're just being biased here. You have many videos up, but just how many of them are of you beating those players? The only well known/good players there are Ninjalink, and San out of the videos you've posted.

-Respectable/well-known/talented players beaten
-Tournament placings (this one's iffy. People beaten in bracket is more important than actual placing. Regional strengths and discrepancies must be taken into account) It is preferred that both competitors provide their best placings
-Word of mouth of respected/good players
-Strength of representation
-Offline activity
-Contributions
-Videos

The region you live in and the people you face, while it does have a lot to with how you'll place in a tournament, isn't necessary the main factor we should take into account. Beating anyone good with Ganon is an accomplishment, really.

My region doesn't have well known players, but It has plenty of unheard about good players. The best players in my region are Ally, Holy, and Swordgard. Swordgard is the only player out of these I haven't faced. I was able to beat Ally's Falcon in a 1v1 out of the one game he used him.

For contributions, I have contributed the most the boards, anyone, even you, should know that.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CBAxyx_Fbo - Vs. Clue (Falcon) 1 and 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BayN8GXr1rw&feature=related - Vs. To Joe (Fox) 1 and 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGzgXoza23I&feature=related - Vs. Yoh (Samus)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E3FBr4LtSw&feature=related - Vs. Yoh (Falcon).

I have more, which I'll find and post them here later.

Also, DLA has a very good point. Nothing neither of us did is distinguishing over the other.

 

[Vermanubis]

I only have "next to zero" because I obviously haven't given you any videos yet. It sounds like you're just being biased here. You have many videos up, but just how many of them are of you beating those players? The only well known/good players there are Ninjalink, and San out of the videos you've posted.

I wasn't saying that in a derogatory manner. Just saying. As for good/well-known players, YoshQ is, Ilovelaurenp is ranked, GUARD is 5th in Quebec and KirinBlaze is tied with Legan for best Link. I also have videos of me versus Will's DK. And I beat all of them in those videos, save for one where I lose to San and one where I lose to Kirin.

The region you live in and the people you face, while it does have a lot to with how you'll place in a tournament, isn't necessary the main factor we should take into account. Beating anyone good with Ganon is an accomplishment, really.

I agree to an extent. But some players will obviously better than others, and some MUs far more difficult.

My region doesn't have well known players, but It has plenty of unheard about good players. The best players in my region are Ally, Holy, and Swordgard. Swordgard is the only player out of these I haven't faced. I was able to beat Ally's Falcon in a 1v1 out of the one game he used him.

But we have to ask ourselves how good. Also, from what I asked Holy at Apex, Ontario and Quebec are separate regions. Holy stated Ontario was indeed somewhat weak. Nice job against Ally's Falcon though, Kalm.

For contributions, I have contributed the most the boards, anyone, even you, should know that.

I wouldn't say most, but you're definitely up there, for sure.

Also, DLA has a very good point. Nothing neither of us did is distinguishing over the other.

By and large that's true. Neither you nor I have mind-blowing accomplishments above each other. Noteworthy distinguishments do exist between us though. But while I dislike naming my own accomplishments, I think this'd be the right place to do it. I've beaten Prawn, formerly ranked 7th in my region's Ice Climbers in tournament recently. I've beaten one of the best Peaches, Peachkid and the second best Diddy, next to TeeVee in NE, SomaCruz.

Like I said, naming my own "achievements" isn't my deal. But if we're both aiming for the King of Evil title, it's the only thing that CAN be done.

 

[KenniSpam!]

DLA doesnt even use ganon anymore

lol @ your dk trying to beat my sheik

 

[A2ZOMG]

DLA, to answer your question, I believe Koskinator was everything you mentioned during his prime time. Easily the best at the time, someone who was helpful and knew the character extremely well. And someone we could worship on Smashboards.

inb4A2isdickridingKosk

 

[Ganonsburg]

Koskinator for eternal King and Emperor. You two can be his generals or something. (/halfserious)

Edit: wtc A2 ninja'ing/Shiek'ing me.

 

[Vermanubis]

I declare VermaKalmSkinator the King of Evil

 

[DLA]

I see a few things a bit -off- with the last few posts... I gotta play devil's advocate unfortunately.

I wasn't saying that in a derogatory manner. Just saying. As for good/well-known players, YoshQ is, Ilovelaurenp is ranked, GUARD is 5th in Quebec and KirinBlaze is tied with Legan for best Link. I also have videos of me versus Will's DK. And I beat all of them in those videos, save for one where I lose to San and one where I lose to Kirin.
....
By and large that's true. Neither you nor I have mind-blowing accomplishments above each other. Noteworthy distinguishments do exist between us though. But while I dislike naming my own accomplishments, I think this'd be the right place to do it. I've beaten Prawn, formerly ranked 7th in my region's Ice Climbers in tournament recently. I've beaten one of the best Peaches, Peachkid and the second best Diddy, next to TeeVee in NE, SomaCruz.

YoshQ is a good player but he isn't particularly brag-worthy... I've personally beaten him in tournament sets with Ganon. I've only heard of Ilovelaurenp on AIB (wifi'd him once, he was pretty good), never heard of GUARD.

Kirin definitely isn't tied with Legan's Link though... ever hear about the Deva/Legan/Izaw debates? If Kirin was as good as any of these players then he'd obviously be included. (Not saying Kirin isn't a great player... he's just not on Legan's level).

Spoiler

Interesting tidbit though, I beat Legan's Link the one time I fought him in tournament... I had to go DK third round though because he wrecked me on BF. We also played a friendly Link vs Ganon set last month and I won that too Friendlies FTW. Legan's Marth wrecks me though, and Legan would completely wreck me IRL. He's a beast

Finally... beating Prawn is a solid accomplishment, I got nothing bad to say about that. Peachkid and SomaCruz on the other hand... not sure those are quite worth mentioning when we're trying to determine the best Ganon in the entire community (I've only seen videos of them though so I may be wrong).

My region doesn't have well known players, but It has plenty of unheard about good players. The best players in my region are Ally, Holy, and Swordgard. Swordgard is the only player out of these I haven't faced. I was able to beat Ally's Falcon in a 1v1 out of the one game he used him.

For contributions, I have contributed the most the boards, anyone, even you, should know that.

I wouldn't mention this but I'm trying to be impartial... Ally talked to me on AIM after the tournament and he said that the TV that he and Kalm fought on was hella laggy, and that it was pretty like playing wifi. And he seems to feel that the Ganon:CF matchup on Wifi is like 80:20 in Ganon's favor. I'm not sure I'd take it as far as 80:20, but I can definitely agree that CF would get hit quite a bit harder by lag than Ganon in that matchup.

Of course it's still an accomplishment... but I'd consider it more like a friendly than a pools match. Who knows, Kalm would still have a pretty good chance against Ally's falcon... I BARELY lost to his Falcon in pools (I won the first game, and I was up an entire stock the second game, but some gay **** happened and he went all Ally on me and came back... it was like 130 to 160 last stock if I remember. Then he won the third game obv)


As far as the top contributor to the boards... yes, I agree that Kalm is the top contributor. Sorry Verm but it's true, he was the big cheese back before you joined the Ganon board.




Anyways, sorry if anyone found this post by namesearch and got offended... every player I named in this post is a great player, real talk

 

[Vermanubis]

Kirin just doesn't get involved with that stuff as far as I know. But the Link community and most people I know consider Kirin on the same level as Legan. YoshQ I agree isn't on the same level as say, Boss or Biglou, but he's still solid. Ilovelaurenp is ranked, but I dunno how strong NC is, if at all. GUARD is an insanely good Fox, and as far as I know, Quebec is a tough region. Peachkid was way better second match, I just wish I could've gotten the replay. >_<

Lastly, Soma's taken on some of NE's top PR players. Thanks for the objectivity and stern stance though, DLA. It's what we need.

 

[Prawn]

lol beating me is not an accomplishment

 

[seaDORF]

Being the king of evil is for people with superiority complexes. It's a pointless title. The only people worried about making it happen are the people contesting it.

I couldn't give a flying fwuck who the self-proclaimed king of evil is and i would never meat ride/hail that person as being some supreme ruler. I respect EVERY ganon main and people loyal enough to stick with him regardless of his innumerable flaws.

Everyone who proudly calls themself a ganondorf main shares the king of evil title.

 

[Vermanubis]

Being the king of evil is for people with superiority complexes. It's a pointless title. The only people worried about making it happen are the people contesting it.

I couldn't give a flying fwuck who the self-proclaimed king of evil is and i would never meat ride/hail that person as being some supreme ruler. I respect EVERY ganon main and people loyal enough to stick with him regardless of his innumerable flaws.

Everyone who proudly calls themself a ganondorf main shares the king of evil title.

I 99.9% agree with that, except for the fact that it's fun to compete for the title. I personally don't care who gets the title, as long as the competition is fierce and sparks aspiritations in the Ganon community. We need competition to keep our mains alive. If we don't, not much else will. If there's no hierarchy, then no one has incentive to become better, or maintain their spot.

But the meatriding part is especially true lol.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Really I liked the days when Koskinator was the King of Evil.

As silly as it may sound, I really think the boards were much better when we had someone to look up to as not only our best player, but a person who could sort of be the spokesperson of the boards and make us feel good about ourselves for honing our skills with Ganon.

That's my memories of the days back when Koskinator was around. I really do believe that this is a worthwhile pursuit.

 

[seaDORF]

I 99.9% agree with that, except for the fact that it's fun to compete for the title. I personally don't care who gets the title, as long as the competition is fierce and sparks aspiritations in the Ganon community. We need competition to keep our mains alive. If we don't, not much else will. If there's no hierarchy, then no one has incentive to become better, or maintain their spot.

But the meatriding part is especially true lol.

Well, now that's been said, it does make sense. It's important to be competitive and push our ganondorfs to their utmost potential so having a king of evil isn't a bad idea. It sucks most of us live on the opposite sides of the Earth though. I would love it if every ganondorf main gathered for one massive ganondorf-only tournament. That would be too epic and we could truly see who the greatest is.

I don't see that happening though lol, not until people would be prepared to pay over a thousand for the plane ticket to get there.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah which reminds me that Kosk made his name in that wifi tournament that I hosted LOL.

And then he had some awesome matches vs Superboom.

 

[Vermanubis]

Really I liked the days when Koskinator was the King of Evil.

As silly as it may sound, I really think the boards were much better when we had someone to look up to as not only our best player, but a person who could sort of be the spokesperson of the boards and make us feel good about ourselves for honing our skills with Ganon.
That's my memories of the days back when Koskinator was around. I really do believe that this is a worthwhile pursuit.

Precisely!

That's why I believe it's important that a prospective King of Evil not only be very skilled, but have a positive image for such skill as to positively represent the Ganon boards. Someone who can be viewed as THE Ganon, y'know?

 

[DLA]

We'll see who's viewed as THE Ganon when I show up at MLG Raleigh in my full set of Ganondorf regalia.

Best part is, none of you know if I'm joking or not

 

[Dumbfire]

I

Kirin definitely isn't tied with Legan's Link though... ever hear about the Deva/Legan/Izaw debates? If Kirin was as good as any of these players then he'd obviously be included. (Not saying Kirin isn't a great player... he's just not on Legan's level.

Kirin wasn't that big back then. Deva quit, he tryd to get back into the game by asking donations, but while preparing his plan (I was going to help him), but then he couldn't afford his internet bill anymore, and this was the last year he would play brawl, one more year to show the word what link could do, then he was going to focus all on his study. Now that this happened, I think we are never gonna see him again, and that its all for his study now.

Izaw now mains Sheik, and has seriously never be seen as a top Link. He just had LOTS of fans, but they were mostly not that good (yeah no offense to anyone), and in the end all the actual top links agreed that he just wasn't one of the best.

Legan is now the best Link, but in the mean time Kirinblaze became really known too.
Kirinblaze is however the second best Link, and has the best camping game out of all the Links (wich is also really hard for Ganon tbh). It is something good to beat the second best Link with Ganondorf. Doing decent against Fatal and Bloodcross, San, Ninjalink, is also something.

Also Prawn don't underestemate yourself, you have just been defeated by a Ganondorf and a Link lol.

I would like to add one thing for Verm that someone maybe didn't said yet.
He made Ganon more known. People actually thought more about Ganon, saw he had potional, all thinks to him. People were amazed from seeing his friendlies and playing him at APEX. Or placing top 3 in that tourney.

I'm on Verms side, I can't say any different.

 

[Ganonsburg]

I don't see that happening though lol, not until people would be prepared to pay over a thousand for the plane ticket to get there.

If I remember correctly, it's closer to 2000 USD. Of course, that's from EC, US to Perth, AU (literally the other side of the world....anyone who thinks that by digging straight down from the US you'd get to China is wrong).

Didn't we have a Ganon wifi tourney last summer or something? Sure, it wouldn't be very accurate as to the KoE title, but it would be fun and competitive.

 

[Noobicidal]

Didn't we have a Ganon wifi tourney last summer or something? Sure, it wouldn't be very accurate as to the KoE title, but it would be fun and competitive.

Ganongasm II was last July, yeah. If there's enough interest, I'll host GGIII. GGII went five rounds into the tourney, but it was never finished for some odd reason.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Ganongasm II was last July, yeah. If there's enough interest, I'll host GGIII. GGII went five rounds into the tourney, but it was never finished for some odd reason.

THAT'S THE NAME. I was sitting here thinking, "Man...it had some cool name. What was it?"

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I was thinking, and why can't we have two kings of evil?

Verm and Kalm are both on the same level. Kalm can't represent as much because this is Ontario, and I myself am still waiting on a tourney I can go to. We shouldn't hold this against him though.

Verm and Kalm have roughly the same technical skill level. I personally have learned much from both. I still have some trouble with FoG out of airdodge, but I'm working on it. Kalm's videos made me realize that UAir freaking autocancels. I never realized that.

Now, as to contributions to the forums, Kalm has the clear upper hand. However, how can Verm contribute something when it was already discovered prior to him arriving here? He can't. I hope, however, to see much more out of both of you.

Now, the idea of two kings might seem a little farfetched. However, all trying to decide the best is going to do is spawn endless arguments between Kalm and Verm.

Even should Kosk return, he should need to prove that he is still worthy of being our king. He shouldn't automatically regain his place here, Kalm didn't. We need to remain consistent. Kosk would need to prove he is still the best Ganon, as does Verm, as does Kalm.

That is all. Sorry if I rambled a bit, but my point is made. Kalm and Verm for king.

'Course, this whole thing will be irrelevant once I get better than Kalm. :D

 

[Legan]

Dumb discussion is dumb, Kings are dethroned all the time. Verm is the best followed by DLA even though Nicole thinks that DLA is better.

Do you understand what verm is doing? Dude is winning sets/taking matches from good players with ganon in 2010 and doing it consistently. This isnt 08/09 when people didnt really know how to play the game, Verm is clearly the best ganon right now so I really dont understand this "Dont give him TOO much credit" discussion.

 

[Dumbfire]

Dumb discussion is dumb, Kings are dethroned all the time. Verm is the best followed by DLA even though Nicole thinks that DLA is better.

Do you understand what verm is doing? Dude is winning sets/taking matches from good players with ganon in 2010 and doing it consistently. This isnt 08/09 when people didnt really know how to play the game, Verm is clearly the best ganon right now so I really dont understand this "Dont give him TOO much credit discussion".

^ Couldn't say it any better.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I'll have to agree. I am of the opinion Verm > Kalm. I just don't want to see Kalm being ******** about not being King. I mean, his whole "I'm going to have my discussion thread unlocked because I don't like you" thing really bothered me, and I'm sure it bothered most of us.

 

[Bahamut777]

I mean, his whole "I'm going to have my discussion thread unlocked because I don't like you" thing really bothered me, and I'm sure it bothered most of us.

I thought I was the only one that thought that was very childish and unnecessary.

 

[Vermanubis]

Dumb discussion is dumb, Kings are dethroned all the time. Verm is the best followed by DLA even though Nicole thinks that DLA is better.

Do you understand what verm is doing? Dude is winning sets/taking matches from good players with ganon in 2010 and doing it consistently. This isnt 08/09 when people didnt really know how to play the game, Verm is clearly the best ganon right now so I really dont understand this "Dont give him TOO much credit discussion".

Wow. O_O

Thanks, Legan. I really appreciate the kind word, man!

I'll have to agree. I am of the opinion Verm > Kalm. I just don't want to see Kalm being ******** about not being King. I mean, his whole "I'm going to have my discussion thread unlocked because I don't like you" thing really bothered me, and I'm sure it bothered most of us.

Thanks, Dirt. As for the notion of Kalm being upset a little, I think he'll realize if he is behind me at all, he can catch up without a ton of issue.

Overall, I agree there are some things that make it tough to fully decide. Kalm's region isn't terribly active, while mine is pretty active. And our playstyles are so radically different. Kalm is very collected and has a "slowly, but surely" playstyle. I, on the other hand, have a "figure this ***** out and force my private parts into them" playstyle. Both have their boons and banes.

 

[Lord Chair]

Verm because he's the kind of guy to go to Heavy Metal/Hardrock concerts all the way in Germany.

 

[Blacknight99923]

Is there a natural rivalry between link and ganon mains?

and please ignore my character main picture. It takes guts for a tiara wielder to post in the realm of evil

 

[Dumbfire]

No rivalry. In fact I´m in both communities, no rivalry at all =3
Verm was even in the link chat yesterday.

 

[Vermanubis]

No rivalry. In fact I´m in both communities, no rivalry at all =3
Verm was even in the link chat yesterday.

Yeah, Link and Ganon mains actually get along well from what I've seen. :0

Except for Blubba and Kalm maybe.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I think link is just the kind of guy Ganon could get along with......Silent, stoic, tough, hard ***..........they have a lot in common

I mean other than the whole stabbing in the head every millennium or two there's really not anything for the two to hate about each other.

 

[Tonsana]

I have a better idea.

...


First Ganon to beat M2K gets the throne...

End of thread..

 

[Bahamut777]

I have a better idea.

...


First Ganon to beat M2K gets the throne...

End of thread..

Clai Warlock Punched M2K in a friendlies. This gives him a very unfair advantage.