King K. Rool early moveset discussion

[Empty Number]

There's a lot of things that could be happening here, hopefully we get more footage eventually, so we can clear it up. I don't think being able to hold the crown would hurt side B, it could work like R.O.B's gyro.

It's not that holding it would necessarily affect side B. I think that holding it without a reliable way to put it back on K. Rool's head presents a problem accessing the rest of his move set, as if this is the case K. Rool only gets to side B once and then if he wants to side B again he must either wait for the crown to disappear and re spawn, or pick it up item-style and throw it himself. This is a tough choice because it means either waiting or restricting your access to normals.

We'll of course find out soon, but that's why I see the crown as snapping directly to his head if he picks it up when the crown is on the ground.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Yeah I think K. Rool's crown is gonna appear back on his head if he picks it up like an item. I don't see this functioning like PAC-MAN's Bonus Fruit where he can pick up and continually use the fruit because each of them have different movement patterns and can be helpful in different scenarios. K. Rool's crown only does one thing, so it wouldn't make much sense to limit his moveset while he holds the crown just to use it again.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

I wanted to point out something important regarding this footage of K. Rool we got that is not something about K. Rool himself.

I don't know if you guys noticed, but this build of the game shown here looks much more polished, but mostly: there seems to be no balloon knockback anymore, except at very very high percents. I could be wrong though.

 

[New_Dumal]

I will play King K. Rool regardless of how good he is, but as a competitive player I will probably don't use him at tournaments.
Being completely honest, it's possible for K.Rool to be the best heavyweight in the game. Projectiles, being a bit fast, and even because he will probably be used by some top players (as secundary), I can see his meta evolve.
Still... Smash Ultimate mechanics seems to be a bit cruel to his archtype.
It's not a problem, I don't need him to be top tier. I can also be wrong and he ends up as a top tier.

From the initial trailer, I expected him to be worse/very bad. Now I'm more positive. I think the crow seems really good (even if it can't be used as a item), some good moves and damage output. Stuff as Nair won't probably help as much as people want to believe. Even if a bit faster than D3, it's probably punishable. I think that if he's able to create HUGE damage from each time he wins the neutral, it will work as a character.
His disadvantaged state must be bad. I even agree that it should be bad.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

From the initial trailer, I expected him to be worse/very bad. Now I'm more positive. I think the crow seems really good (even if it can't be used as a item), some good moves and damage output. Stuff as Nair won't probably help as much as people want to believe. Even if a bit faster than D3, it's probably punishable. I think that if he's able to create HUGE damage from each time he wins the neutral, it will work as a character.
His disadvantaged state must be bad. I even agree that it should be bad.

Yeah heavyweights like seem to generally have a poor disadvantage state. Mainly because it balances out their high-damage and high-knockback attacks and survivability, which has in spades.

 

[Empty Number]

Can someone help me understand what's going on in the video at 13 seconds? I'm not sure if I caught something.

After the King gets hit by Snake's dash attack at the very start of the map, he uses his double jump and drops down onto Snake who is below the platform on the right. As K. Rool drops down Snake seems to throw a grenade up, which hits K. Rool undetonated on the belly armor portion of his hurt box. Thing is, K. Rool doesn't flinch even though he's taking damage. Is that how the grenades are supposed to work? Or does K. Rool have some undocumented tough guy mechanic or super armor?

EDIT: I'm an idiot. Snake's grenades never cause flinching. Could have just looked it up. I'm leaving my post up because learning is about making mistakes and we shouldn't be ashamed of that.

 

[C-G]

From the initial trailer, I expected him to be worse/very bad. Now I'm more positive. I think the crow seems really good (even if it can't be used as a item), some good moves and damage output. Stuff as Nair won't probably help as much as people want to believe. Even if a bit faster than D3, it's probably punishable. I think that if he's able to create HUGE damage from each time he wins the neutral, it will work as a character.
His disadvantaged state must be bad. I even agree that it should be bad.

Between his good fastfall, good nair, and access to a counter, I think he'll do well on stage in disadvantage. He certainly has good tools to get down.

Offstage seems much more of an issue. His recovery, while mobile, has slow startup and (unless the propeller does damage) no hitbox to protect it. It gives of strong Cypher/Duck vibes.

 

[S_B]

Overall, I believe he has potential.

It all depends on how the rest of the cast performs, but unlike most heavyweights, KRool has the skills to pay the bills: two projectiles, a command grab, some nice aerials, and a counter.

Also, his up b may yet have super armor like Snake's. We'll see, but it closely resembles it.

 

[meleebrawler]

I'm reiterating that I still believe the bury stomp from his reveal is a forward tilt. Most dtilts are things that can conceivably be done from the character's crouching position. But we've seen K. Rool's crouch, and I don't see him suddenly jerking up to deliver a stomp from that position. He does step surprisingly far to deliver it though.

 

[DJ3DS]

As per the King's disadvantage state, it's worth mentioning that with two projectiles, there's a good chance he can B-Reverse these for added landing mixups and momentum changes. The command grab on blunderbuss makes this an even more useful possibility.

 

[Deleted member]

Moveset looks good, hard to say where he'll place, but one of my mains for sure. I'm sticking with him in this game and any beyond no matter how good he is though.

 

[Fell God]

Aside from his large frame and all his specials being punishable, he doesn't seem to have as many weaknesses as other heavies. His rekovery (though hard to discern from such a...unique stage choice) seems to be at least decent bekause unless my eyes are broken, his air speed didn't seem bad at all, even if his up special is vulnerable, he may not often need to use it. His moveset didn't seem terribly laggy, he has aktual good, non situational projektiles even if they're a bit slow on startup, he kan edgeguard extremely well seeing as he has projectiles, a kounter, and good aerials. I know, we've only seen one probably mid-level match 4 months before launch against a fighter who kan't endlessly press advantage likesome other kharakters kan, but I believe King K. Rool may yet end up being one of the best super heavies ever, and no, Snake doesn't kount because he's not big.

 

[C-G]

Even if Blunderbuss won't be used on stage, hoo boy will it be used for edgeguarding. A slow moving, incredibly strong projectile that lasts a really long time? That'll make everyone's day harder.

 

[Deleted member]

Good hopefully he'll be a good heavyweight, seems like he could be based on this.,

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

So after realizing this while talking about high damage throws in the Bowser boards, I need to tell everyone:

King K. Rool's Up throw is the highest damaging throw in Ultimate at the moment, dealing an absolutely insane 20.1% damage in 1vs1. (16.8 damage with items on or 3+ players).

Ready those pivot grabs my fellow K. Rool mains because K. Rool's throws are set to deal massive amounts of damage even if he may not be able to combo into them at high percents.

Also, I promise I will take time soon to rework the OP again. I will make a spreadsheet and add every information we recently got from the battle against Snake.

 

[C-G]

If Blunderbuss and Krown don't completely poo all over Sonic's day I'll eat my skull-and-crossbones hat

 

[Dixie Kong]

I love that his belly slam is from DK Land, my favorite game of all time. I'm so happy it wasn't forgotten! Now all of you go play the DK Land!

 

[Untouch]

After thinking about it, with instant dash attacking, his dash attack is going to be amazing for edgeguarding. Huge hitbox with armour, that'll eat anyone trying to ledge getup.

 

[KingZing]

I have been thinking about his alt costumes... And the Krown toss is a problem. The Krown itself is crucial for the attack and it wouldn't make sense it he threw the hat or the wig (?) with the same effect. Honestly, It already looks kinda weird how he puts the pirate hat just to use the blunderbuss, I makes me feel that they purposefully added that detail to avoid adding the full costumes.

You could say he could spawn the Krown from the air, and it could work, but again, how would the blunderbuss work with those other costumes? Would the Kaptain have no extra animation, would the Baron still change to the hat as well as spawning the Krown every single time? Too convoluted and inconsistent. As much as I wish for his other personas, his moveset just doesn't fit and it would understandable if they just put recolours of the King.

In a perfect world, each one would have unique specials and attacks! So 4 characters for one. Not happening though, obviously.

 

[BonafideFella]

I have been thinking about his alt costumes... And the Krown toss is a problem. The Krown itself is crucial for the attack and it wouldn't make sense it he threw the hat or the wig (?) with the same effect. Honestly, It already looks kinda weird how he puts the pirate hat just to use the blunderbuss, I makes me feel that they purposefully added that detail to avoid adding the full costumes.

You could say he could spawn the Krown from the air, and it could work, but again, how would the blunderbuss work with those other costumes? Would the Kaptain have no extra animation, would the Baron still change to the hat as well as spawning the Krown every single time? Too convoluted and inconsistent. As much as I wish for his other personas, his moveset just doesn't fit and it would understandable if they just put recolours of the King.

In a perfect world, each one would have unique specials and attacks! So 4 characters for one. Not happening though, obviously.

Agreed. The most we'll probably get is color alts referencing the Captain, Baron and Boxer.

 

[kendikong]

We can see that k rool gets hit by a lobbed nade but doesnt flinch. Could this mean krool has toughguy armor like bowser?

 

[C-G]

We can see that k rool gets hit by a lobbed nade but doesnt flinch. Could this mean krool has toughguy armor like bowser?

Grenades don't cause flinching.

 

[Mysteltainn]

He definitely does have super armour, yeah. We see it on numerous occasions during his reveal trailer and in his first match with Snake. However, we don't know the extent of it yet and will have to wait and see what kind of priority it gets, and how extensive it is.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I've been thinking about K. Rool's moveset lately; what follows is a list of predictions for how I think some of his moves will function. These have probably been pointed out here before but I feel I should share my observations anyway.

Spoiler

• The Blunderbuss has two functions depending on if the special button is tapped or held. If tapped, you fire the cannonball forward, which will damage opponents. After that, you can suck in the cannonball or projectiles to launch them. If held, no cannonball is fired and you instead just suck in opponents and launch them. I feel it'd make the most since for the move to function this way, since the cannonball and sucking have their own special uses, and it doesn't make that much sense for you to have to launch the cannonball so you can suck in opponents and vice-versa. That would somewhat limit his options, or at least make them a bit harder to access.
• I don't think you can actually aim the Blunderbuss after you suck in a cannonball or opponent; that would have been shown it off by now if that was the case, and so far we've only seen the cannonballs be fired straight or at a specific angle.
• We know the crown can be thrown by opponents as an item as shown with Snake and Villager's Pocket. However, I don't think K. Rool himself can pick it up and use it. It instead would just reappear on his head so he can use the special again, like it does when it disappears in the battle with Snake.
• We see the crown stopping in place AND flying off-screen on separate occasions during the Snake battle. The former may be because the main platform in Kongo Falls got in the crown's way as if it was a wall or slope and stopped it, and the latter is what would happen on, say, Final Destination. I do feel that if the crown doesn't reach K. Rool on flat stages like Final Destination, the crown will lose altitude and eventually land on the ground, and can be used as an item.
• Obviously, you can't use Krown Toss if you have no crown.
• I don't think the Helicopter Pack is gonna have a hitbox because, again, that would have been shown off already. It does seem like a good recovery regardless however, as he travels pretty fast and looks like he gets good vertical distance. Seems like Duck Hunt's Duck Jump to me.
• This is more of a want than a prediction but I want the Helicopter Pack to short-circuit when K. Rool reaches his peak and explode, damaging all opponents in the radius and sending him falling downwards.
• Stomach Attack seems like a unique counter in that it would only hit opponents if the attack hits his glowing green belly. A bit more situational than other counters, but a useful counter nonetheless.
• The stomp attack we see at the end of his trailer is his forward tilt or down tilt.
• Down aerial meteor smashes.
• Up aerial has different hitboxes and damage outputs depending on if K. Rool has his crown or not.

 

[S_B]

After thinking about it, with instant dash attacking, his dash attack is going to be amazing for edgeguarding. Huge hitbox with armour, that'll eat anyone trying to ledge getup.

I was thinking about this as well, but I'm worried that his dash attack might make him leave the ledge, ala Little Mac's side+B.

Though, Link's has never done this in the past so I guess we'll see.

 

[DJ3DS]

I was thinking about this as well, but I'm worried that his dash attack might make him leave the ledge, ala Little Mac's side+B.

Though, Link's has never done this in the past so I guess we'll see.

I don't think you should be too concerned - using a special move as precedent for a dash attack is a tenuous link.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I was thinking about this as well, but I'm worried that his dash attack might make him leave the ledge, ala Little Mac's side+B.

Though, Link's has never done this in the past so I guess we'll see.

I mean King Dedede does a similar thing and he doesn't fall off the edge. I don't think we need to worry.

What SHOULD happen is that dash attacks like that cancel into a jump when done at the ledge.

 

[C-G]

What do you guys think the missing moves could feasibly be, animation wise? Like what are the actions for Ftilt/Dtilt (whichever one isn't the stomp), DSmash, and Usmash?

I'm thinking his Dsmash is probably a buttstomp a la DK 64. Basic shockwave style, nothing special, though if you wanted to MAKE it special, it could actually make a shockwave similar to DK Slaps. Usmash is a swipe over his head using the Krown. Kinda like Peach Fair. Really good range if he has the Krown. Ftilt is he reaches out to bite someone. It's fast and has a sweetspot kill move.

 

[EnthusedPanda]

What do you guys think the missing moves could feasibly be, animation wise? Like what are the actions for Ftilt/Dtilt (whichever one isn't the stomp), DSmash, and Usmash?

I'm thinking his Dsmash is probably a buttstomp a la DK 64. Basic shockwave style, nothing special, though if you wanted to MAKE it special, it could actually make a shockwave similar to DK Slaps. Usmash is a swipe over his head using the Krown. Kinda like Peach Fair. Really good range if he has the Krown. Ftilt is he reaches out to bite someone. It's fast and has a sweetspot kill move.

I agree Dsmash is probably the buttstomp, though I'd love to see some integration of cannonballs coming from offscreen, as has been speculated in some fan movesets - K. Rool snaps his fingers, cannonballs land next to him, etc. The hitbox of this as a Dsmash could work maybe like the giant feet in Bayo's moveset, tweaked of course.

 

[Spinosaurus]

There better be a bite, ala Charizard's brawl dtilt.

 

[Deleted member]

Will keep a close eye on this, want to know his moves, down to a t.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So, King K. Rool has been played by no one except the dev team...

Still, we got a lot footage showing him off. I think we have enough to figure out what moves will be used the most.

It won't be perfect due to limited information, but it'll be fun and help us understand the character better.

So, make a list an explain why you think those moves will be used so much.

 

[Alsyght]

I doubt the counter, firstly. A lot of tourneys I’ve seen online, people never seem to use the counter.

I feel like the cannonball thing can be used a lot. Probably his back air, too. Idk. Gotta play him.

 

[G-Guy]

definitly his Dair, because you Always go for the royal disrespect.

Otherwise, Nair looks great, side B will be interesting and Nair of course

 

[StormC]

I definitely think crown toss will be common for stage control. Kounter might be useful for the fast attackers that typically combo heavies.

Up throw looks like it does an insane amount of damage as well; I think it's the strongest throw in the game?

 

[Deleted member]

Keeping tabs Definetly will look up more to find out how he plays.

In the months to come.

 

[S_B]

HIS DOWN THROW BURIES ENEMIES AND CAN BE FOLLOWED UP WITH A DOWN SMASH, HOLY CRAP...
https://youtu.be/YVoXwdIfhKo

Also his up B does indeed have a hitbox on the propeller.

 

[Rakurai]

The whole gimmick of his belly armor breaking and stunning him if you try to armor too many hits with nair and dash attack doesn't seem like it'll happen often enough to be much of an issue unless you keep diving into crowds in a free-for-all, since it seems to regenerate pretty quickly if you don't soak any hits.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

K. Rool’s down throw can bury opponents. This is a guarantee that K. Rool not only has strong attacks and good killpower but potential early game combos and even late percent kill confirms off of grab. Added with the pressure he can apply with projectiles and his incredible DK/Bowser tier pivot grab and impressive ground speed (relative to his size) and I think it’s obvious that K. Rool will be at least High-Mid Tier. He has too much going for him including a high speed vertical recovery with a hitbox.

 

[Fell God]

Alright I have to say, I'm a lot more optimistic about K. Rool's viability. With all of the new footage we've seen (as well as other things I've heard) he seems to be more than just a credible threat. Two projectiles to keep opponents at bay, armored nair to make landing easier, a burying down throw for kill confirms, three meteor smashes for triple the pain, a command grab for setting up edgeguards, a counter to make people think twice about slinging out their kill moves, a deadly kill throw for breaking people's spines and spirits at the same time, a relatively quick and long distance recovery that has protection from above, a burying dtilt because having a down throw that does the same thing wasn't enough burial for him, Melee Marth's grab range because his grab game wasn't good enough already, devastatingly powerful smash attacks because he's a big strong boy, a ton of weight so he never dies, and long reach on all of his attacks BECAUSE BIG STRONG BOYS ARE BIG AND HEALTHY. Basically what I'm saying is I can't wait to play as King K. Rool.