King K. Rool early moveset discussion

[Mysteltainn]

I started a moveset thread right after the direct...

where did it go?

Same thing happened with my "Your Reaction?" thread and all the others. I think there was a hiccup shortly after with the new sub-forum and they all poofed. I can't imagine they were all straight-up deleted, lol.

As for the Krown being grabbed out of a dodge like many items in the game, I'm hoping this is not the case. From a canon standpoint it makes no sense since DK and the klan had to always avoid it at all costs in the games, but whether they choose to change it for balancing reasons it's hard to tell; hoping it ends up being an inevitable zoning hazard like Link's boomerang.

 

[ggamer77]

It is indeed a very interesting moveset. I love it.

 

[RomanceDawn]

K Rool's moves came out so close to what many envisioned. Looks like he's got pieces of Bowser, Dedede, Link, and a Fire Emblem counter rolled into one.

 

[Untouch]

I think people are really underrating the blunderbuss.
As someone who mained Jr, the cannonball was atrocious for two reasons:

• Massive amount of endlag meant characters could run up and grab very easily.
• Incredibly slow projectile, you aren't going to hit other players because the range was so awful.

Even if the blunderbuss has the second problem, it looks like it starts sucking in almost right away, approaching K Rool after he fires a cannonball will be much harder.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

I started a moveset thread right after the direct...

where did it go?

I have no idea. The entire K Rool forum has been suddenly deleted at some point, including your thread. That's why I made this one.

 

[AquaTech]

Looks like he could either be that upper-mid tier counter pick, or complete garbage !

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

I noticed something at the end of the reveal trailer.

K. Rool at the end looks like he's in his missed tech animation but he doesn't actually get any invincibility frames and goes straight from that to a crawl.

I think this means one of two things:
1) You can crouch / crawl out of the missed tech animation at the expense of your invincibility frames.
2) That's not actually K. Rool's missed tech animation and his crouch animation is him faking his own defeat a la DKC 1. Perfect. Perfect. It's beyond PERFECT.

So, sooooo hopeful it's the second.

You are right by the way. It's definitely a crawl we're seeing him do while being in this defeated stance. This is genius.

 

[Untouch]

my early opinions on his specials only:
Neutral Special (Blunderbuss) has the potential to be one of the best tools he has. It seems to come out reasonably fast but has large endlag. The big thing here is the command grab. Dedede can now spit out projectiles so I assume this works here too, with the command grab it should be much harder to approach K Rool after attacking, a major issue with Dedede's Gordos and Bowser Jr's Cannon.
Cannonball appears to come out around frame 28 to 30 based on the video, with the suction happening around 30 frames later. Very similar in frame data compared to Bowser Jr., the endlag will be what makes or breaks this move.

Side Special (Krown Throw) seems to be his worst option here, on the other hand. The range and speed seem too low, it's nice that it hits on the way back though, may be used to edgeguard or tech chase but I can't see much more.
Krown appears to come around frame 26 and after the krown appears you have around 48 frames of endlag, which almost identical to Link's boomerang's frame data.

Up Special (Kopter Pack) has the potential to be good. I haven't seen enough of it to totally judge. The footage cuts out before he runs out so I can't see if it works like Snake's Up Special or not. It seems to go past the entire Fourside spire though so that vertical distance seems great.
Kopter appears to come out around frame 14 which is pretty fast, I have enough footage so say this one is almost guaranteed to be the case.

Down Special (Kounter) seems to be telegraphed really well so I can't see it being used on stage. I don't know how it works offstage but it may find use in getting back to the stage like Marth/Lucina.
Kounter appears to come out around frame 12 and is active for at least 14 frames. (This seems very very fast so I don't really know, just going off of footage)

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

my early opinions on his specials only:
Neutral Special (Blunderbuss) has the potential to be one of the best tools he has. It seems to come out reasonably fast but has large endlag. The big thing here is the command grab. Dedede can now spit out projectiles so I assume this works here too, with the command grab it should be much harder to approach K Rool after attacking, a major issue with Dedede's Gordos and Bowser Jr's Cannon.
Cannonball appears to come out around frame 28 to 30 based on the video, with the suction happening around 30 frames later. Very similar in frame data compared to Bowser Jr., the endlag will be what makes or breaks this move.

Side Special (Krown Throw) seems to be his worst option here, on the other hand. The range and speed seem too low, it's nice that it hits on the way back though, may be used to edgeguard or tech chase but I can't see much more.
Krown appears to come around frame 26 and after the krown appears you have around 48 frames of endlag, which almost identical to Link's boomerang's frame data.

Up Special (Kopter Pack) has the potential to be good. I haven't seen enough of it to totally judge. The footage cuts out before he runs out so I can't see if it works like Snake's Up Special or not. It seems to go past the entire Fourside spire though so that vertical distance seems great.
Kopter appears to come out around frame 14 which is pretty fast, I have enough footage so say this one is almost guaranteed to be the case.

Down Special (Kounter) seems to be telegraphed really well so I can't see it being used on stage. I don't know how it works offstage but it may find use in getting back to the stage like Marth/Lucina.
Kounter appears to come out around frame 12 and is active for at least 14 frames. (This seems very very fast so I don't really know, just going off of footage)

Thanks a lot for providing frame data! I will update the OP soon.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Well I can confirm something

The blunderbust vacuum is not his grab

He grab mewtwo without the blunderbust

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

Hey guys, I updated the OP to look better, as well as new pictures and informations. Thanks for giving your thoughts and data on the King's moves!

About K. Rool's crawl:

Spoiler

As you can see, this is K. Rool's crouch animation. This means that what we see in the end of the first trailer might actually be his vulnerable, no-tech stance. This means that, and this is just speculation, K. Rool might be the only character to be able to go from a vulnerable stance to his crawl animation, this is HUGE, and probably akin to his fake-outs in the DKC games, where he acts as if he was defeated, only to get up and attack again.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Haven't read any of the other posts, so sorry if this is old news, but am I the only one who thinks his arms crossed pose may be his down air? he slams down to the ground while making it, and it seems perfectly "K. Rool" to just go into a smug pose and slam to the ground.

 

[Yellowlord]

Haven't read any of the other posts, so sorry if this is old news, but am I the only one who thinks his arms crossed pose may be his down air? he slams down to the ground while making it, and it seems perfectly "K. Rool" to just go into a smug pose and slam to the ground.

To be honest, that looks more like his entry pose then it does his down air.

If it really was his down air, the laughing animation would have a ton of endlag on it, which would make it very hard to use, but I really do think that's his entry pose either way as it just seems fitting for K. Rool to enter a battle like that.

 

[meleebrawler]

my early opinions on his specials only:
Neutral Special (Blunderbuss) has the potential to be one of the best tools he has. It seems to come out reasonably fast but has large endlag. The big thing here is the command grab. Dedede can now spit out projectiles so I assume this works here too, with the command grab it should be much harder to approach K Rool after attacking, a major issue with Dedede's Gordos and Bowser Jr's Cannon.
Cannonball appears to come out around frame 28 to 30 based on the video, with the suction happening around 30 frames later. Very similar in frame data compared to Bowser Jr., the endlag will be what makes or breaks this move.

Side Special (Krown Throw) seems to be his worst option here, on the other hand. The range and speed seem too low, it's nice that it hits on the way back though, may be used to edgeguard or tech chase but I can't see much more.
Krown appears to come around frame 26 and after the krown appears you have around 48 frames of endlag, which almost identical to Link's boomerang's frame data.

Up Special (Kopter Pack) has the potential to be good. I haven't seen enough of it to totally judge. The footage cuts out before he runs out so I can't see if it works like Snake's Up Special or not. It seems to go past the entire Fourside spire though so that vertical distance seems great.
Kopter appears to come out around frame 14 which is pretty fast, I have enough footage so say this one is almost guaranteed to be the case.

Down Special (Kounter) seems to be telegraphed really well so I can't see it being used on stage. I don't know how it works offstage but it may find use in getting back to the stage like Marth/Lucina.
Kounter appears to come out around frame 12 and is active for at least 14 frames. (This seems very very fast so I don't really know, just going off of footage)

If you look closely when Villager pockets the crown and takes it out again, he's holding it instead of throwing it out immediately. That means it can be caught and thrown like an item. If K. Rool can do it himself, then he can throw it out much more quickly and use it in conjunction with the blunderbuss kannonball for zoning.

Edit: Anyone think that K. Rool might dethrone Bowser as the heaviest fighter in the game?

 

[Untouch]

I wonder if it can be caught by K Rool himself and then Z Dropped? I think this would be a blessing and a curse. Would be a great edgeguarding tool but might allow other characters to shut one of his moves down.

 

[OhMyBanana54]

My brief thoughts:
1. Blunderbuss looks like it’ll be good for spot dodge and roll reads and tech chases.

2. Even if the crown is a throwable projectile, that’s still a potentially viable tool in the neutral game of all you have to do is, say, throw it at a wall.

3. A downtilt that buries the enemy is amazing for mid percent kill confirms.

 

[Thundross]

According to to last night's update on the website, K. Rool's counter is apparently called Stomach Attack.

https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/blog/index.html?category=cat02_fighter

Today's Fighter
#67: King K. Rool
With long-distance special moves like the Blunderbuss, and counter moves like Stomach Attack, he is a versatile fighter. His Final Smash, Blast-O-Matic, was apparently a weapon created to destroy DK Island...

 

[Mysteltainn]

Would have been nice if they had a more cheeky Rare-like name for it, but it's a nice move to round out his specials IMO. I'm curious to see how exactly it functions; particularly if you're not facing the enemy you intent to counter at the time. With the swordies it makes sense for them to still react and parry behind them, but I wonder if the King's kounter will have quirks or unique attributes such as perhaps super armour and less damage taken from behind in that scenario.

He is after all the heaviest character to have a counter I'm pretty sure. I'm not sure where Ike tips the scales, but I doubt it's anywhere near the likes of Ridley, Bowser, DK, K. Rool, Charizard, etc. I'd guess somewhere around Link and Palutena?

 

[Untouch]

I like my name for it better.

 

[Deleted member]

A heavy zoner with super armor on some of his moves. This is going to be something special. I believe.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

I was wondering too about K. Rool's weight. I doubt that it will dethrone Bowser, however what is almost 100% sure is that he's gonna be heavier than Donkey Kong, which is already impressive.

K. Rool is going to be such an interesting character, whatever if he's low or high tier. A super heavyweight focused on a more defensive and zoning play style is something we haven't seen yet in Smash Bros history. The fact that he has a counter just enhances that aspect and I love it.
I would be even happier if he turns out to also be a tricky character, if his projectiles and other moves have interesting properties and if he really can go into a crawl from a vulnerable stance etc. I cannot wait to see more of him ; despite the hype reaching galactic levels, I am disappointed that his trailers show so little of his moveset beside his specials.

 

[C-G]

So here's an idea I haven't seen brought up.

We know K Rool can toss his crown out and move while it's on the way back. Can he shoot his Blunderbuss, then suck up his own crown to use as ammunition? The second Blunderbuss shot he did to D3 did massive damage. If he were able to store the items he fires, that could lead to something major.

 

[G-Guy]

So here's an idea I haven't seen brought up.

We know K Rool can toss his crown out and move while it's on the way back. Can he shoot his Blunderbuss, then suck up his own crown to use as ammunition? The second Blunderbuss shot he did to D3 did massive damage. If he were able to store the items he fires, that could lead to something major.

This sound extremely intriguing! A possible off stage set-up, perhaps?

 

[Empty Number]

Can we please speculate on the Blunderbuss?

I was watching this analysis: King K. Rool Analysis and it seems to me that there's a lot to the Blunderbuss that we might be missing. First of all the cannonball travels in a sinusoidal wave, which is an awesome nod from DKC2. Secondly, it wouldn't make much sense to always fire a cannonball before sucking in air. The creator of the video theorizes that maybe it has to do with a momentary press of the B button versus holding it down, but what if it's different?

What if the cannonball is an item that K. Rool spawns in the same way that Diddy spawns a banana? Maybe this means that any time the cannonball is out on the field the Blunderbuss sucks in air and functions as a command grab. My evidence for this is that in the second trailer found on the website we can see our King use the Blunderbuss again - seemingly the same way. But look at what happens after the cannonball is fired a second time. It hits Dedede and then falls toward the ground. Now look at Bowser Jr.'s trailer. It falls to the ground in the same way as K. Rool's and bounces on the ground.

Maybe I'm crazy - but does King K. Rool spawn two items: The crown and a cannonball?

Edit: I just cross-referenced with Bowser Jr.'s Smash 4 animations. The cannonball does a double bounce then disappears. It likely is not an item then - but maybe the Blunderbuss does only suck in air when the cannonball is on the field. This makes sense seeing how slowly the cannonball moves across the stage.

 

[DJ3DS]

I wonder if it can be caught by K Rool himself and then Z Dropped? I think this would be a blessing and a curse. Would be a great edgeguarding tool but might allow other characters to shut one of his moves down.

If K Rool can catch it and use it in this way, it's a much better move. Amongst other things, it would open up the ability for him to glide toss, giving him better movement options.

 

[Deleted member]

It's everything I dreamed and more, Blunderbuss, Helipack, Crown toss, new things, like a stomach attack. The Blast-O-Matic it's perfect. He's perfect that King K. Rool love the Moveset.

 

[Thundross]

Can we please speculate on the Blunderbuss?

I was watching this analysis: King K. Rool Analysis and it seems to me that there's a lot to the Blunderbuss that we might be missing. First of all the cannonball travels in a sinusoidal wave, which is an awesome nod from DKC2. Secondly, it wouldn't make much sense to always fire a cannonball before sucking in air. The creator of the video theorizes that maybe it has to do with a momentary press of the B button versus holding it down, but what if it's different?

What if the cannonball is an item that K. Rool spawns in the same way that Diddy spawns a banana? Maybe this means that any time the cannonball is out on the field the Blunderbuss sucks in air and functions as a command grab. My evidence for this is that in the second trailer found on the website we can see our King use the Blunderbuss again - seemingly the same way. But look at what happens after the cannonball is fired a second time. It hits Dedede and then falls toward the ground. Now look at Bowser Jr.'s trailer. It falls to the ground in the same way as K. Rool's and bounces on the ground.

Maybe I'm crazy - but does King K. Rool spawn two items: The crown and a cannonball?

Edit: I just cross-referenced with Bowser Jr.'s Smash 4 animations. The cannonball does a double bounce then disappears. It likely is not an item then - but maybe the Blunderbuss does only suck in air when the cannonball is on the field. This makes sense seeing how slowly the cannonball moves across the stage.

Well, on the subject of the blunderbuss, do people think the second shot is automatic, or can you hold it? I also wonder if that shot always has to be aimed upward, or if you can choose whether to fire straight across or upwards for both shots.

 

[S_B]

Re: KKR's weight.

DK is the current #2 heaviest in the game and KKR will definitely be heavier than DK.

And there are plenty of good reasons for him to be heavier than Bowser.

Bowser is the "quick" grounded heavyweight. KKR is known for being a massive tub of lard and, like Snake, he's laden with lots of gadgets as well.

Plus, KKR's recovery looks very exploitable, meaning he should rightfully be the hardest in the game to push off the stage.

He's either #1 or #2 heaviest (barring some other newcomer who is somehow heavier), and there's plenty of reasons he could be #1.

 

[Putuk]

To be honest, that looks more like his entry pose then it does his down air.

If it really was his down air, the laughing animation would have a ton of endlag on it, which would make it very hard to use, but I really do think that's his entry pose either way as it just seems fitting for K. Rool to enter a battle like that.

It's definitly his stage entry animation.
At that point during the trailer you hear someone drawing a sword off-screen, which is probably from a sword-users entry animation.

 

[waterfall6464]

I didn't see this move being posted anywhere. This looks like an up-tilt but it could be an up-smash too. Looks like it has pretty good vertical range.

 

[Untouch]

Looking more into frame data. A lot of these are just my assumptions and based on some visual indicators.
Bluderbuss, at least when you've sucked something up ends after around 42 to 48 frames which is actually not all that bad. I assume that the shot cannot be charged as they never show it off. This is around half of smash 4 Bowser Jr's. Ultimate Bowser Jr seems to end around frame 40. In both videos we have, someone or something is being sucked up so no data there, I'd imagine it's faster which is very nice.

FAir's hitbox comes out after 12 frames. That's incredible for how strong the move looks. Endlag appears to be around 36 frames which is not so incredible. This seems nice for a killing move or a combo ender.

The following info is from a 30 FPS video so it'll be less accurate.
FSmash (?) comes out after 14 frames and has super armour on it seems. Endlag looks to be around 56 frames.

Dash appears to come out after 12 frames and has super armour on it. Endlag looks to be around 70 frames which seems high.

Grab appears to come out after 8 frames, very comparable to other heavyweights.

UTilt appears to have 26 frames of endlag. For a heavyweight this is amazing, might be wrong on this because we have almost no footage.

And that's everything I can get right now.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

View attachment 157050

I didn't see this move being posted anywhere. This looks like an up-tilt but it could be an up-smash too. Looks like it has pretty good vertical range.

Thanks a lot for pointing this one out! I completely missed it. I included it in the OP. Looks like it is Up tilt indeed.

 

[Empty Number]

So the last scene in K. Rool's reveal trailer...

I think we agree that when he's lying down that's his "knocked down" pose and not his crouch. When he gets up, he moves to the right and crawls backwards on all fours. I think this might mean that K. Rool's rolls (lol) are quadrupedal shimmies across the ground. That's kind of cool!

 

[mynameisBlade]

Is it true that his idle animation is him quickly squeezing his hands like in DKC 1? Heard that sonewhere. Been trying to see if it was a lie.

 

[S_B]

Waaaaiiiiiiit a second...

So we believe the stomp that buries is his Dtilt, correct? (no stars so likely not a smash attack)

But here's the REAL question: what if it also spikes?!!??!

After all, DK's headbutt buries and spikes (not sure if Inkling's roller or Villager's shovel spike as well...).

I know magnet hands are mostly back, but if catching the 2-frame at the ledge continues to be a thing, our boy is going to be stomping away the dreams of many as they try to recover...

 

[G-Guy]

Waaaaiiiiiiit a second...

So we believe the stomp that buries is his Dtilt, correct? (no stars so likely not a smash attack)

But here's the REAL question: what if it also spikes?!!??!


I know magnet hands are mostly back, but if catching the 2-frame at the ledge continues to be a thing, our boy is going to be stomping away the dreams of many as they try to recover...

This sounds like so much fun, honestly.

Remember that one scene from the lion king with Mufasa hanging over the Gazelle stampede, holding on to Scar on the ledge?
„Long live the KING!“

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

I guess i'll just drop this here...

Footage. I hope i'm not late.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

I guess i'll just drop this here...

Are you KIDDING ME? Alright there's too much going on, I got hyped as **** when I saw this. Also holy crap K. Rool is HUGE!

EDIT: OKAY so, Back throw has K. Rool slamming the opponents, dragging them on the ground and then tossing them behind for 11.5 damage, returning hit of the crown deals 6.3 damage, Back air is a huge back punch that deals 10 damage, Forward Air deals 14.7 damage and can combo into Kannonball (which deals a wtf 17.9 damage??), which kills heaviweights at 86%??? Up air is a crown headbutt, the crown can be picked up by opponents (sigh), Up throw's animation acts like Charizard/Kirby/MK Up throw and lands on platforms, PIVOT GRAB LOOKS HUGE, Nair is a belly splash similar to Dedede with little endlag that deals 12.6 damage i think?, jab is a two hit jab with AMAZING range, and finally down air is double leg stomp with like, no end lag too? I think I got it all?
EDIT2: UPTHROW DOES 16,8%??

 

[An Archie]

I guess i'll just drop this here...

It also seems like he has a unique victory theme, like Ridley does.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Got some frame data start ups from that vid, could be off a frame or so.

Jab is frame 4
Nair 7
Fair 12
Bair 18

Might be on the slower end even for a heavyweight, except for Jab. Also looks like he might have to commit to the suction for Blunderbuss. I don't think he's a zoner, or anything.