King K. Rool early moveset discussion

[Putuk]

While the Blunderbuss might be a bit of a blunder in the greater scheme of things, imagine knocking someone off-stage, hopping off after them, firing a kannonball at nothing and using the suction to suck them up on the way down, firing them into the blast zone.
Man that sounds stylish. Not something you can do on experienced players, but still.

 

[Protom]

krown not stopping on block but instead passing through makes it seem rlly good. in the video the layer jabbed afterwards prtty quickly, which probably means u can apply a lot more mixups to it like grabbing if theyre shielding the return n whatnot. im def excited to see that move used more..

 

[KingZing]

Maybe his Krown catching animation only occurs when he is standing still and it just goes back to his head if he's moving or in the air. He doesn't look able to pick it up as an item, but that would also mean he's immune to it, so I don't know.

I share the same feeling about the Blunderbuss... It's just confusing. So weird that the throwing angles seem to be fixed, I expected you could aim to at least some degree. And then the suction dilemma. When you look at it, It's the same move from DKC2 as the Krown is from DKC, but in this case the execution is underwhelming. I know random elements have been cut, but at the very least I expected you to be able to choose between cannonball, suction or even the gas clouds depending how long you press B. Or even make them fly wonky if you input directions afterwards. The way it is now is just way to strict and limiting.

I secretly hope they don't want to reveal all of his options yet, because the Blunderbuss as of now is a major worry. Specially when his Down-B is a counter and not a move per se, his specials look rather empty compared to other characters.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Maybe his Krown catching animation only occurs when he is standing still and it just goes back to his head if he's moving or in the air. He doesn't look able to pick it up as an item, but that would also mean he's immune to it, so I don't know.

I share the same feeling about the Blunderbuss... It's just confusing. So weird that the throwing angles seem to be fixed, I expected you could aim to at least some degree. And then the suction dilemma. When you look at it, It's the same move from DKC2 as the Krown is from DKC, but in this case the execution is underwhelming. I know random elements have been cut, but at the very least I expected you to be able to choose between cannonball, suction or even the gas clouds depending how long you press B. The way it is now is just way to strict and limiting.

I secretly hope they don't want to reveal all of his options yet, because the Blunderbuss as of now is a major worry. Specially when his Down-B is a counter and not a move per se, his specials look rather empty compared to other characters.

Many of these reasons will hopefully be addressed with Sakurai explaining his move set directly to us.

 

[C-G]

I honestly doubt we'll get Sakurai explaining anything to us about King K Ool. The window for that has passed.

 

[Untouch]

Looks like his cannonball doesn't fall to the ground like Jr when it runs out, this is a pretty good thing since Jr's cannonball didn't have a hitbox when it fell.

 

[mynameisBlade]

I honestly doubt we'll get Sakurai explaining anything to us about King K Ool. The window for that has passed.

He had us wait almost 3 months until we got to see Inkling in full action, and even Ridley was talked about by him at E3. (on stage) I'm sure he is going to lay it all out for us. He explained Simon in his reveal trailer too. King K. won't be the only full on Newcomer who he doesn't talk about. That'd be treason. He will be detailed in whatever the next Smash direct is.

 

[Mgl]

The video released today showed off his jabs

 

[C-G]

He had us wait almost 3 months until we got to see Inkling in full action, and even Ridley was talked about by him at E3. (on stage) I'm sure he is going to lay it all out for us. He explained Simon in his reveal trailer too. King K. won't be the only full on Newcomer who he doesn't talk about. That'd be treason. He will be detailed in whatever the next Smash direct is.

I'm saying he's not gonna do stuff as indepth as Simon because it won't be in a direct. We didn't get anything for Ridley or Inkling that was like Simon. More likely we'll see a Nintendo Treehouse go over his moveset in partial depth.

 

[mynameisBlade]

I'm saying he's not gonna do stuff as indepth as Simon because it won't be in a direct. We didn't get anything for Ridley or Inkling that was like Simon. More likely we'll see a Nintendo Treehouse go over his moveset in partial depth.

Inkling got the same thing as Simon in the E3 reveal.. He went through each of her moves and showed us the stage. The only things she didn't have were a stage boss and a more CGI trailer to show off in.

Edit: Ridley was mentioned on the E3 floor in enough detail to get the point across. Unless Sakurai is at Gamescom 2018, he will be talking about the King K. in a Direct. Every newcomer will undoubtedly get some notoriety by him.

 

[C-G]

Inkling got the same thing as Simon in the E3 reveal.. He went through each of her moves and showed us the stage. The only things she didn't have were a stage boss and a more CGI trailer to show off in.

Fair enough about Inkling. Ridley was a surprise like K Rool so link me to the Ridley indepth Sakurai analysis and I'll concede the point.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Fair enough about Inkling. Ridley was a surprise like K Rool so link me to the Ridley indepth Sakurai analysis and I'll concede the point.

Here is when Sakurai (translator) talk about Ridley. He gets a good long move set walk through. Not as to-the-point as Simon and Inkling, but its there either way. Any Newcomers have to talked about more so that players don't get their own ideas of how stuff works. Explanation is inevitable.

Go to 4:00 for the Ridley info.

 

[OhMyBanana54]

So correct me if I'm wrong but now that we've seen more footage, the only moves that we've never seen are:
Down tilt
Up tilt/F tilt (Whichever one is not the stomp)
Down Smash
Up Smash
Down Throw
Forward Throw
and Pummel.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

Bruh why am I not getting notifications for my own thread anymore?

Also to all my Bowser lads out here...

 

[meleebrawler]

No one's tried jumping before shooting the blunderbuss yet. That alone would make approaching K. Rool more difficult because the slow-moving and beefy cannonball restricts air movement and you can't run at him because he'll suck you in. If you stop the ball, he'll likely suck it in and hit you with that instead. And if it works anything like Kirby and Dedede's new inhales, he can suck up other projectiles too. King K. Rool might well be the only superheavy to be better on Final Destination.

 

[C-G]

Even if the Krown is catchable leading to it being less useful for pressure, because of how it boomerangs, you can instead throw it backwards and approach with it. So long as it hits your opponent first/never hits K Rool, you effectively control a horizontal line on the stage.

 

[meleebrawler]

I'm just gonna say that although K. Rool's speed is faster than what you'd expect, it's still average at best in the grand scheme of things. It makes sense since while he's still predominantly melee-based, he has projectiles that help tip engagements in his favour. And I'm still not impressed by his reach. He may have good coverage, but any good swordfighter can likely comfortably outrange his moves. He makes up for it with generally good startup and power though. I think only Ganondorf generally hits harder than K. Rool at this stage.

 

[Fell God]

Didn’t see him grab the crown after it dropped. I wonder if picking it up will simply put it back on his head or allow it to be used as an item. Probably the former but z-drop crown edgeguards sounds nice.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

At this point our only concerns are how exactly the Blunderbuss and Krown function. The only thing we are missing so far are forward and down throw, Up smash and down smash, and forward tilt. That's it. But honestly, I am just pleased and happy with how K Rool is right now. He just looks clean.

 

[GameGod2973]

more gameplay on king k rool https://youtu.be/CBLnjibehdU

 

[StormC]

more gameplay on king k rool https://youtu.be/CBLnjibehdU

This is the same video brah.

 

[GameGod2973]

what do you mean?

 

[C-G]

what do you mean?

We've been talking about that gameplay video all day.

When you came in with 'more gameplay on king k rool', we all assumed it was more gameplay on top of the video. Something entirely different.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

It's cool, it was yet another occasion to watch the clip again. Not disappointed.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Want to say something about K. Rools Nair. While it was expected it would be like Dedede's Nair, considering his wide girth... Whats with all the inflating? Geez... its like the first thing the Smash dev team to learn about K. Rool is Googling his name without the Safe Search filter.
Besides that, K. Rool's moves keep feeling like an improved Dedede. Makes me feel even worse for dropping him in Ultimate for K. Rool. Maybe a mixture of Dedede and Bowser... yeah, that sounds about right.

 

[Mysteltainn]

King K. Rool actually pulls from quite a few characters. He has traits of King Dedede, Kirby, Charizard, Ganondorf, Captain Falcon and even Diddy Kong. Ironically, he probably pulls the least from Bowser, which is funny because many speculated that if he were ever to come into Smash, he'd be similar to or even a clone of Bowser. Which of course as true K. Rool fans we all know is utter hogwash, but it's funny nonetheless.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Am I alone in thinking his up air looks weird?

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

Up air looks fine to me. He just stretches upward to give a headbutt. Would be interesting to know if this move loses power and KO potential if K. Rool doesn't have its Krown on though, and if it's disjointed.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Up air looks fine to me. He just stretches upward to give a headbutt. Would be interesting to know if this move loses power and KO potential if K. Rool doesn't have its Krown on though, and if it's disjointed.

A move that scales in damage depending on if the crown is on your head or not?
I take it back, this move could be pretty interesting

with how small the crown is idk if it'll have that much of an impact range-wise though

 

[Spinosaurus]

Honestly everything about him actually looks pretty similar to Bowser playstyle wise from that match.

Mediocre frame data, bad air mobility, probably good grounded options and throws, ridiculous damage output. Sounds like Bowser to me, so far. Difference comes down to projectiles vs command grab I guess, also has vertical mobility (good jump height and not as floaty, seemingly) instead of Bowser's dash speed. This is all mostly reductionist and ignoring what we haven't seen so far, mind, but not much else to speculate about what we know so far.

 

[C-G]

Honestly everything about him actually looks pretty similar to Bowser playstyle wise from that match.

Mediocre frame data, bad air mobility, probably good grounded options and throws, ridiculous damage output. Sounds like Bowser to me, so far. Difference comes down to projectiles vs command grab I guess, also has vertical mobility (good jump height and not as floaty, seemingly) instead of Bowser's dash speed. This is all mostly reductionist and ignoring what we haven't seen so far, mind, but not much else to speculate about what we know so far.

I don't see it. Bowser has a very intimidating, bait and punish playstyle about him. K Rool's projectiles encourage a more active approach, more neutral control, and honestly a lot of his moves have important distinctions. Having a good movement speed along with sex kick nair automatically makes him more of an aerial fighter than Bowser's slow-as-molasses air game.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I don't see it. Bowser has a very intimidating, bait and punish playstyle about him. K Rool's projectiles encourage a more active approach, more neutral control, and honestly a lot of his moves have important distinctions. Having a good movement speed along with sex kick nair automatically makes him more of an aerial fighter than Bowser's slow-as-molasses air game.

Like I said, I was being deliberately reductionist. There's a lot we don't know about his projectiles to say how it'll shape his playstyle.

Not seeing his supposed air game over Bowser tho, everything looks comparable. His nair is only one frame faster than Bowser's, and Bowser's nair is also active. Bowser's problem with air approach before was his jumpsquat, which isn't a problem for him anymore, so K.Rool doesn't have a leg up on him there. Landing lag is hard to gauge so far, but also looking comparable with what we have. As it is, both have slow startup aerials with slow air speed.

 

[C-G]

Not seeing his supposed air game over Bowser tho, everything looks comparable. His nair is only one frame faster than Bowser's, and Bowser's nair is also active. .

Hitboxes are the key. K Rool's, without a proper hitbox viewer, appears to be a giant sex kick circle underneath him, good for landing and air to ground and with apparently minimal lag. Bowser's move comes OUT at frame 8, but according to the Smash 4 Hitbox viewer, it starts at the top, then rotates around downward, not hitting anyone close to the floor until frame 15.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Hitboxes are the key. K Rool's, without a proper hitbox viewer, appears to be a giant sex kick circle underneath him, good for landing and air to ground and with apparently minimal lag. Bowser's move comes OUT at frame 8, but according to the Smash 4 Hitbox viewer, it starts at the top, then rotates around downward, not hitting anyone close to the floor until frame 15.

Oh, fair, admittedly didn't know that about Bowser's nair. That's a big difference then.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

K. Rool arguably has a better nair than Bowser IMO. I bet he has armor on his belly too. We know there is theme going on with his armor being invincible with his Down B and Dash attack. Nair will likely have the same.

 

[Union of Darkness]

From the looks of the Blunderbuss and how it's been the same every time, my hope is that it's not a locked animation and requires multiple button presses so it can be cancelled at certain points. I don't think Sakurai would be crazy enough to make a neutral move that actually lasts 3-4 seconds.

 

[Dε√ilj∦o]

Zero has made a good analysis video of the gameplay if you guys wanna check it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDfgaBMMAC4

 

[Empty Number]

I don't think K. Rool will have his crown available to z-drop and glide toss (if that's in the game - we haven't seen Diddy). I can't imagine the devs designing a move where it is advantageous for K. Rool to hold onto his crown as an item instead of wearing it on his head - you know - like in his design. It looks like if he doesn't catch the crown it sits on the ground like an item that other characters can grab and throw. It also looks like when the crown is thrown off-stage it respawns as a falling item in the middle, and has the ability to snap directly to K. Rool's head if he is near it.

Questions I'm wondering:

1) If K. Rool intercepts the crown before it's finished its complete trajectory back to its origin, does it return to his head?

2) If K. Rool picks up the crown while it is sitting on the ground, does it return to his head? (I think it does, and he does not hold it like an item.)

3) When the crown is thrown off stage and it respawns in midair it appears to blink for a few moments. Is this an indication that only K. Rool has access to the crown during these frames and that it will snap to his head if he's in the area?

 

[Untouch]

Looked at the footage quite a lot I can't totally tell what's happening with the crown, but this is what I see.

• If it hits the ground, it becomes an item, NOT if it hits a player on the way back without hitting them first. When the crown goes off stage it misses snake the first time but the second time it doesn't become an item.
• This is also the only instance of the crown going offstage, after a while it spawns back, I can't tell if its spawning near K Rool or in the center of the stage, I cannot possibly imagine it's the second case, that'd be odd. I can't tell if this is just a placeholder either since I can't see why they wouldn't just place it on his head.
• When it spawns back, it spawns as an item, you can tell because it is flickering, doesn't sparkle and has the blue arrow. It isn't disappearing normally because it doesn't appear in a puff of smoke.
• I don't actually recall if it's possible for an item to disappear in air normally, throwing or dropping resets the timer normally, in this case the item is spawned and started to disappear at the same time.
• When Snake picks up the crown and throws it, it becomes associated with Snake until it hits the ground again, then it goes back to being blue.

There's a lot of things that could be happening here, hopefully we get more footage eventually, so we can clear it up.
I don't think being able to hold the crown would hurt side B, it could work like R.O.B's gyro.

 

[mynameisBlade]

Looked at the footage quite a lot I can't totally tell what's happening with the crown, but this is what I see.

• If it hits the ground, it becomes an item, NOT if it hits a player on the way back without hitting them first. When the crown goes off stage it misses snake the first time but the second time it doesn't become an item.
• This is also the only instance of the crown going offstage, after a while it spawns back, I can't tell if its spawning near K Rool or in the center of the stage, I cannot possibly imagine it's the second case, that'd be odd. I can't tell if this is just a placeholder either since I can't see why they wouldn't just place it on his head.
• When it spawns back, it spawns as an item, you can tell because it is flickering, doesn't sparkle and has the blue arrow. It isn't disappearing normally because it doesn't appear in a puff of smoke.
• I don't actually recall if it's possible for an item to disappear in air normally, throwing or dropping resets the timer normally, in this case the item is spawned and started to disappear at the same time.
• When Snake picks up the crown and throws it, it becomes associated with Snake until it hits the ground again, then it goes back to being blue.

There's a lot of things that could be happening here, hopefully we get more footage eventually, so we can clear it up.
I don't think being able to hold the crown would hurt side B, it could work like R.O.B's gyro.

I agree. Some of his moves are very interesting. The Blunderbuss and Krown effects are confusing to an extent. Sakurai needs to officially help us out here.