It's good to get these things out there early though. Also, you should put it on the FRONT page of this thread.
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Kahoka Me Your Moves!---MW-W Circuit Event #3---May 1-3; Kahoka, MO
- Thread starter Cook
- Start date
I'll do what I can to get a 2nd setup from St. Louis... no promises yet though.
Come play with us sometime in April, Kirksville! Name a date, we'll make it happen.
Come play with us sometime in April, Kirksville! Name a date, we'll make it happen.
The Real Inferno
Smash Hero
Meta Knight doesn't get KOs. The other characters kill themselves in his presence.
Wichita is bringing texture hacks and we will be awesome because of it.
Me and Andrew are going to need to have a bit of a discussion about that stage list though.
Where's the pink one?!?! I don't want gay pride GW, my GW is a straight MAN who has sex with women whenever he wants (which is ALOT). Also, he wears pink!
Andrew, if Inferno makes me a pink GW for tournament play, you should waive his venue fee, and if he brings a setup to waive it anyway then I'll buy him something cheap! Like a soda/pop/whatever other parts of the country call those drinks. Maybe TWO of them!
Cook
Smash Master
Um, yeah, ok, I'll be sure to do that!
How did I not notice this before? Oh well.
Andrew and I will be in this weekend (Fri and Sat before Easter).
Jakebudden
Smash Ace
I'm not coming anymore.
Cook
Smash Master
Heh, sorry dude. I'll keep MK unbanned, promise!
Jakebudden
Smash Ace
So we are going to ban delfino and castle siege too right? Cause dedede can cg anyone to death off either side on of both of these levels, and has a the entire stage to get one grab which he then can go in either direction to grab them to death. I mean if dedede is the reason pipes is banned cause on one side he can cg to death then most certainly both delfino and castle siege should be banned. Especially since dedede has a very small area to get the grab where he can actually do damage on pipes. I mean what kind of idiot just sits on the hill and waits anyway.
Edit: Sellouts!
Edit: Sellouts!
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
The reason Pipes is banned and Delfino and Castle Siege aren't is because the infinite walls and walk off sides are NOT permanent on those two stages.
On Pipes, the walk off is ALWAYS there. Pipes is banned for the same reason that Shadow Moses Island is banned.
If you cannot avoid grabs for 30 seconds while you are on a walkoff section, then that's your own fault. More importantly, if you can be Chain Grabbed by DeDeDe and you don't ban Delfino as your stage strike, it's even more so your own fault.
Being too lazy to properly play against a particular strategy is not sufficient reason to ban something.
animeblitzballa33
Smash Ace
Then why is pipes being banned. Your own words contradict what your saying. If you get grabbed on that half of the stage i say your an idiot. Those blocks in the middle stop everything, even if D3 is standing on the last one and the opponent he grabbed is off of them, it stops the grab. I watched a D3 get 2 stocked there cause he simply couldnt get a grab in. Just stay on or to the left of the blocks and your fine.
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
I fail to see how I am contradicting myself as I expressly stated that the reason that the other walk offs are legal is because they are NOT permanent.
Would you argue that Shadow Moses Island should be unbanned? Of course not. Pipes is the same. I will elaborate...
---
You seem to be arguing that you "just have to stay on the left side of the stage". From this, you seem to be drawing the conclusion that avoiding walk-off chain grabs on Pipes is the same as on Delfino. This is incorrect.
Your argument is flawed because avoiding grabs for 30-45 seconds while on a stage-morph and avoiding grabs for a full 8 minute match are not the same thing.
Delfino is a feasible stage because your approach options are only limited at specific times and those times are avoidable and capable of being overcome.
The probability of being grabbed within 45 seconds can be made 0% because you have the option of camping / stalling for the duration of that stage-morph and then resuming approaches / offense after the morph changes back.
Once you are off the walk off / infinite wall sections, you can resume offensive strategy.
On Pipes, you can never make a real offensive effort. You cannot avoid grabs for 8 minutes on Pipes and hope to win a match. This is not practical or probable.
I personally don't think that DeDeDe is the only reason to ban Pipes, anyway. ...but that's another story altogether.
Would you argue that Shadow Moses Island should be unbanned? Of course not. Pipes is the same. I will elaborate...
---
You seem to be arguing that you "just have to stay on the left side of the stage". From this, you seem to be drawing the conclusion that avoiding walk-off chain grabs on Pipes is the same as on Delfino. This is incorrect.
Your argument is flawed because avoiding grabs for 30-45 seconds while on a stage-morph and avoiding grabs for a full 8 minute match are not the same thing.
Delfino is a feasible stage because your approach options are only limited at specific times and those times are avoidable and capable of being overcome.
The probability of being grabbed within 45 seconds can be made 0% because you have the option of camping / stalling for the duration of that stage-morph and then resuming approaches / offense after the morph changes back.
Once you are off the walk off / infinite wall sections, you can resume offensive strategy.
On Pipes, you can never make a real offensive effort. You cannot avoid grabs for 8 minutes on Pipes and hope to win a match. This is not practical or probable.
I personally don't think that DeDeDe is the only reason to ban Pipes, anyway. ...but that's another story altogether.
Affinity
Smash Hero
We should just use the NE's stage list and stop arguing about stages:
Kind of a boring stage list, but it avoids any stages that could be considered dumb.
Joker490Frozen
Smash Champion
Man people are still arguing about the stages, I thought they had solve this a while back o.0
Well the stage list right now seems fine to me, I don't think any more should be removed all the ones left are pretty legit, and is not like anyone is going to pick them anyways, is like on my tourneys I have just about every Stage and people still go to the same ones(Neutrals).
Plus I think that most of the reason why people don't like the stages is cause it give a char an advantage, but isn't that what Counter Picking a stage suppose to do. This is exactly what happen at Oshkosh, everytime someone from Iowa pick an actual CP Stage they get mad cause they lost there and said we won cause of a gay stage, when in reality we won cause we CP the stage for your char which is the point of CP, is not my fault everyone plays Neutrals only and don't know how to handle the rest.
Also Cook, I'm bringing a complete set up(Brawl, Wii, TV), maybe two but it all depends on how much space we have, since Jlo is bringing one right?
Well the stage list right now seems fine to me, I don't think any more should be removed all the ones left are pretty legit, and is not like anyone is going to pick them anyways, is like on my tourneys I have just about every Stage and people still go to the same ones(Neutrals).
Plus I think that most of the reason why people don't like the stages is cause it give a char an advantage, but isn't that what Counter Picking a stage suppose to do. This is exactly what happen at Oshkosh, everytime someone from Iowa pick an actual CP Stage they get mad cause they lost there and said we won cause of a gay stage, when in reality we won cause we CP the stage for your char which is the point of CP, is not my fault everyone plays Neutrals only and don't know how to handle the rest.
Also Cook, I'm bringing a complete set up(Brawl, Wii, TV), maybe two but it all depends on how much space we have, since Jlo is bringing one right?
Jakebudden
Smash Ace
I also think Halberd should be banned based on the rationale for the ban on Port Town Aero Drive. That cannonball and laser have a lot of knockback and can kill at relatively low percents. I mean that was argument about the cars so therefore it should work on halberd too.
I also think Smashville should be banned because the red balloons distract me too much. I don't want to have to worry about one of those pretty red balloons flying by and me getting punished for noticing it.
I also think Smashville should be banned because the red balloons distract me too much. I don't want to have to worry about one of those pretty red balloons flying by and me getting punished for noticing it.
Affinity
Smash Hero
From the stage list in the OP, Pirate Ship is personally the only stage I have a problem with. Too many random factors.
EDIT: Norfair as well, for the same reason.
EDIT: Norfair as well, for the same reason.
Joker490Frozen
Smash Champion
Banned Smashville, cause I don't like the way the people on the background look at me, Yoshi's Island the shy guys stop projectiles and such.
Sooooooooooooo No Items, MK Only, Final Destination XP
Pirate ships has the bombs but like in Halbert they can be avoided, the catapult can be dodge pretty ez, as for No Fair the lava is predictable, the only problem I see is when people get toss to the lava that comes from the sides and the only reason you get hit by it is cause someone toss you into it, point being we can use a certain list of stages and people will still complain.
Sooooooooooooo No Items, MK Only, Final Destination XP
Pirate ships has the bombs but like in Halbert they can be avoided, the catapult can be dodge pretty ez, as for No Fair the lava is predictable, the only problem I see is when people get toss to the lava that comes from the sides and the only reason you get hit by it is cause someone toss you into it, point being we can use a certain list of stages and people will still complain.
Fino
Smash Master
Wisconsin?!?
... lolk
cool, also, stop stage johning
~Fino
... lolk
cool, also, stop stage johning
~Fino
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
Exactly.Joker said:
Lylat or Pokemon Stadium 1 must be labeled as a neutral since you must have an odd number of neutrals for stage striking purposes. This is the only reason either of them is listed in neutrals, and it will likely always be that way.MurdaMoe said:
I feel that Pirate Ship is too random and should be banned, though it is certainly debatable.
Regarding Norfair and the like...
I am personally for Norfair being legal. While it has some random factors, they are very predictable, certainly as predictable as anything you would find on Halberd or Rainbow Cruise.
Additionally, the stage is just too good at being a mixup and changing the strengths/difficulties in matchups. It is exactly what a counterpick should be.
I would prefer that Norfair stay as a legal counter pick for those reasons.
I personally have no problem with Pictochat, Norfair, Rainbow Cruise, or Halberd and feel that they should all be legal counter picks.
Affinity
Smash Hero
I'd be shocked if Rainbow Cruise or Halberd were banned anywhere.
But yeah, I think the discussion has come down to discussing the legality of Pirate Ship and Norfair.
Like I said before I don't think either should be legal, Pirate Ship much more so than Norfair however.
Pirate Ship needs to go.
I am ok with with norfair, and pirate ship. When lava in norfair comes, the stage warns you by the screen panning out to the side. You can see the lava rising and how the hell do you miss the huge wall of fire and balls of fire from the back. Pirate ship, just pay attention at the background. Who falls for the catapult?
LouBega
Smash Journeyman
i don't want mansion on. ban that.
LouBega
Smash Journeyman
our stage list is so boring now i don't like it. we should just put skyworld, port town, pipes, and onett back on, and then give everyone two bans.
gantrain05
Smash Master
i have no problem with pirate ship being banned >.> lol. but i have no problems with whatever stages are chosen to be CP's as long as it is reasonable. i usually never even ban anything because i just practice all my chars on all the stages and know how to handle it so no johns from me.
Cook
Smash Master
Man, what a healthy debate!
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
I love a good healthy debate! With some tomatoes and green peppers, and maybe some ranch dressing on it. Yum yum!
Affinity
Smash Hero
Ban Pirate Ship. Seriously.
That **** is whack.
That **** is whack.
neomadgic
Smash Journeyman
That sounds like a good compromise. Put port town and pipes back, but give everyone 2 bans.
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
Yeah, I'll jump on this band wagon.
I hope this is not a serious suggestion...
Cook
Smash Master
Well, what is the problem with having two bans?
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
The process suggested is in direct conflict with the SBR rule list. If this tournament is to be taken seriously, it will follow the basic rules of the SBR.
Additionally, those stages would be silly to include. With Pipes, you can at least make an argument for it, though I still think it should be banned. I have never seen any good reason to allow Onett, Skyworld, or Port Town, however.Official SBR Recommended Rule List said:
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
True, the rule list is only "recommended". It does have areas where the rules can be interpreted loosely, as is stated in the rule list itself.
I do not think that the amount of bannable counterpicks is one of these "gray areas", however. They are pretty specific about rules that are "optional" and this isn't one of them.
I have never seen a tournament use a format with more than one ban, as it obviously gives too great of an advantage / disadvantage and breaks the counterpick sequence by having too many stages and making banning pointless, thus removing an entire element of the competition.
I do not think that the amount of bannable counterpicks is one of these "gray areas", however. They are pretty specific about rules that are "optional" and this isn't one of them.
I have never seen a tournament use a format with more than one ban, as it obviously gives too great of an advantage / disadvantage and breaks the counterpick sequence by having too many stages and making banning pointless, thus removing an entire element of the competition.