Just pick a top tier.

[GHNeko]

kbm with the harsh hammer strike.

has a point and is right up until last statement.

 

[KBM]

mm, last statement enters the opinion zone.

either way...

 

[C.R.Z]

With forward from Sanford Kelly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGh4ZU4H5Hk

Seriously, why would you bother playing a lower tier character? You're not gonna win. You're into competitive smash bros; if you're not the best then you're just wasting your time. I mean sure, we all have our low tier secondaries...for ****s and giggles in drunk friendlies at 3 AM, or for a $2 entry low tier side event, but why waste your time playing them seriously? Even if you win your locals, do you really think you can go out and win a large tournament with them? Don't be delusional...

There are "exceptions." #1 on the NY Power Rankings: an Ike named San (unrelated to Sanford Kelly above (note that NYC isn't included on the NY Power Rankings)). He beats good players like Jesiah and PikaPika on a what I understand to be consistent enough basis to be ranked #1 in the state, so I'll assume he's really good. But at the end of the day, no matter how well he does with Ike in New York, why bother? There's no reason to use Ike over MK or Snake. When he goes national, what happens? Hell, regional even. I'd be willing to bet that the top 5 in NYC could beat San, but that remains to be seen. If San goes and destroys Anti and Shadow and Ninjalink and Snakeee and Jash, you can quote me and make me look like an idiot. Of course it's nothing against San as a player, but the fact he uses a low tier just destroys it for him.

Unless you can beat everyone in the entire world with your low tier character, it's just pointless. Being the best low tier main means nothing if you're not actually winning tournaments. It's cool that Reflex has the best Pokemon Trainer and Ray Kalm has the best Ganondorf, but they still don't win. They're not exactly in the strongest regions, either.



The same thing applies to all low tiers. Just stop it, pick up MK or Snake or Falco or Diddy or someone that wins tournaments and just enjoy your tournament winnings.

lol ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Kitamerby]

this is a dumb *** thread. look at the results for any national tournament in the US and it will be nothing but high/top tier.

that's not up for debate. if a mid tier "matches your playstyle", you have a crappy playstyle.

I'm going to win Pound 4 with Yoshi just to spite you.

 

[IsmaR]

lol'd at the OP mentioning san. san destroys everyone.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Really, unless you're planning to go to major regional/national tourneys, you should simply play whoever you find the most entertaining to use.

Also, low tier maining does have its advantages. Since low tier mains in general are less common than high tier ones in tourneys, the other player is unlikely to know the matchup well, which gives you an advantage.

Good Ganondorf players are hellish if you don't know the matchup...

 

[GHNeko]

I'm going to win Pound 4 with Yoshi just to spite you.

gl with that. really. i'm sooo serious.

Really, unless you're planning to go to major regional/national tourneys, you should simply play whoever you find the most entertaining to use.

Also, low tier maining does have its advantages. Since low tier mains in general are less common than high tier ones in tourneys, the other player is unlikely to know the matchup well, which gives you an advantage.

Good Ganondorf players are hellish if you don't know the matchup...

the thing is low/bottom tiers are low/bottom tiers for a reason as they have obviously exploitable **** and top tiers are top tiers for a reason because they have ******** exploitable ****. those 2 aspects can easily compensate for lack of MU knowledge.

 

[GreenFox]

When I picked my main there was no tier list I just played as who I enjoyed the much and he ended up being good.

 

[Matador]

Who says my character isn't high tier? The people who made the tier list?



....please.

 

[superyoshi888]

I play characters based on two things:

1) How fun they are.
2) If I actually like a character not based on playstyle.

I forced myself to like Dedede not because he was high tier, but because I liked him. I went with Meta Knight at first cause I liked the character and he happened to be easy to use. Now I go with C. Falcon and Ganon because they are the most fun. I did the same in Melee too, cause Pichu is awesome and fun to use.

But in the end, I won't be winning any tourneys cause I suck as a Brawler compared to anyone who actually goes to tourneys. I roll spam, don't use DI, and very frenquently enter auto pilot. Those 3 things are a no-no.

So....take my opinion for what it's worth, if you will. Play the character that fits you the most, and get some **** skill if you want to win.

 

[GHNeko]

matador knowing how it do.

cape those who do not believe.

and get some **** skill if you want to win.

all the skill in the world wont help when you're character is ****ty

ex all low tier mains that play high but never win because of their low tier.

 

[Equi]

I agree with the topic. But some people (like me) genuinely do better and place better with Wolf rather than MK, Snake, etc. And believe me, I've made the switch.

Wolf just fits my playstyle for some reason.

 

[GHNeko]

it's a mentality thing really. its an issue with how you think and act. if people could control that, i'm sure i'd be seeing a lot more top tiers, tbh.

 

[Ganonsburg]

If you're playing top tier and not having fun, why play at all? It's not like you'll make a living off of it. Just pick ANY character that you enjoy and have fun. If you win some money that's cool. But if you're doing it only for the money/fame, you're just wasting your time. Someone else will eventually beat you, and then what? You'll be forgotten.

Ganon for G Tier.

 

[Swordplay]

Top 5 reasons

1) PRIDE

2) I enjoy the challenge.

3) The challenge is more important to me than winning.

4) Low tiers are often unexplored and playing them is the only way for the community to learn more about them and their match ups.

5) This topic should be directed to people who would stand a chance at winning a tourney if they choose a better character. If they looser tourneys no matter which character they choose, why the **** should you care?

By these reasons you may not think of me as a competitive smasher but I assure you I try to win just as hard as my peers and that's competitive to me.

 

[GHNeko]

1-4 == I do not have a TRUE play to win mentality

5 because the topic is an advice topic aimed at everyone who doesnt win so they have a better chance at winning.

 

[NovaRyumaru]

With forward from Sanford Kelly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGh4ZU4H5Hk

Seriously, why would you bother playing a lower tier character? You're not gonna win. You're into competitive smash bros; if you're not the best then you're just wasting your time. I mean sure, we all have our low tier secondaries...for ****s and giggles in drunk friendlies at 3 AM, or for a $2 entry low tier side event, but why waste your time playing them seriously? Even if you win your locals, do you really think you can go out and win a large tournament with them? Don't be delusional...

There are "exceptions." #1 on the NY Power Rankings: an Ike named San (unrelated to Sanford Kelly above (note that NYC isn't included on the NY Power Rankings)). He beats good players like Jesiah and PikaPika on a what I understand to be consistent enough basis to be ranked #1 in the state, so I'll assume he's really good. But at the end of the day, no matter how well he does with Ike in New York, why bother? There's no reason to use Ike over MK or Snake. When he goes national, what happens? Hell, regional even. I'd be willing to bet that the top 5 in NYC could beat San, but that remains to be seen. If San goes and destroys Anti and Shadow and Ninjalink and Snakeee and Jash, you can quote me and make me look like an idiot. Of course it's nothing against San as a player, but the fact he uses a low tier just destroys it for him.

Unless you can beat everyone in the entire world with your low tier character, it's just pointless. Being the best low tier main means nothing if you're not actually winning tournaments. It's cool that Reflex has the best Pokemon Trainer and Ray Kalm has the best Ganondorf, but they still don't win. They're not exactly in the strongest regions, either.



The same thing applies to all low tiers. Just stop it, pick up MK or Snake or Falco or Diddy or someone that wins tournaments and just enjoy your tournament winnings.

I'd rather play someone I enjoy as opposed to characters that are easy to abuse/overpowered. So I think I'll gladly stick to maining Yoshi and enjoy the game, last thing this game needs is for it to end up like melee where pretty much only 5, 6 characters were played in higher end competition. I'd much rather win with someone that has to work for the win as opposed to someone as overpowered as Metaknight.

I'm sure there are quite a few people that would agree with me.

 

[Woozle]

If you're playing top tier and not having fun, why play at all? It's not like you'll make a living off of it.

If you can win a tournament with 20 people, each with a 10$ entry fee, then you are potentially up at LEAST 100$. (assuming 50% goes to first place)

Even if its a 10 hour tourney, it's still 10$ an hour.

**** pays, son.

 

[NatP]

So everyone should just use smash as a source of money and not as a source of entertainment? Makes sense.

 

[GHNeko]

not everyone plays competitively for fun anymore.

just like not everyone plays simply to win.

its a two way street.


when it comes to competition, once again, fun takes a backseat to winning. if you cannot make sense of this, then i don't believe you can ever adopt a mindset that will bring you far in this field of gaming.

 

[Woozle]

So everyone should just use smash as a source of money and not as a source of entertainment? Makes sense.

Why would I enter tournaments for entertainment? It costs $20, plus gas, plus time getting there, spent there, and getting back.

If I want fun, I'll call an all-day brawl-day and let everyone play for free.

Just sayin'.

 

[mountain_tiger]

the thing is low/bottom tiers are low/bottom tiers for a reason as they have obviously exploitable **** and top tiers are top tiers for a reason because they have ******** exploitable ****. those 2 aspects can easily compensate for lack of MU knowledge.

Yes, someone can get used to the matchup pretty quickly when it's a top tier vs a low tier, most of the time. However, it's not like you instantly know how to deal with a matchup as soon as the match starts. It takes time to learn about the mechanics of it. Let me illustrate with an example:

Imagine that your main is Pikachu, and your secondary is Zelda. You go to a tourney, and your first opponent is King Dedede. Pikachu is around 40:60 against DDD, whilst Zelda is around even with him. At first glance, the obvious choice seems to be Pikachu. However, tourney level Pikachus are much more common than tourney level Zelda's, which means that the King Dedede player is more likely to know how to deal with the matchup. However, he's not very likely to know how to deal with Zelda, so he'll get lightning kicked and forced to approach all over the place. Now, after the first match, he may have gotten used to the matchup, but you've already won one match, so then you switch back to Pikachu for the second.

Do you see what I'm getting at here?

 

[NatP]

@Woozle- Because some people actually live in countries with an awful smash scene, and they enjoy having tourney's just as a way to meet other smashers and just to have fun. Granted I am the person least capable of discussing a topic like this because I have little tourney experience, but you can be sure that if I went to tourneys every month or every 3 weeks and if I were to get owned really bad on them, I would not switch characters.

And comparing tourneys to brawl meetings is stupid. It's completely different,even though both rock. I personally enjoy all the rules and cp's and the bracket's in tourneys. Brawl meetings is just... brawl. And if you do allow rules and cps and do kinda like a mini tourney, it still can't be compared to an actual tourney. And if you then go the extra mile to make it seem like a tourney, then well, it's becomes a tourney.

 

[GHNeko]

@ mountain_tiger: Yes. I get what you're saying, but here is the deal.

That's a one trick pony that will only get you so far against competent players and above.

Also, as a competent player, you're supposed to know how to deal with all your regionally common match ups AND the matches ups that are declared near even, to even, to disadvnatged against your favor. If you fail at doing so, it is your own fault. And that has nothing to do with tiers, but rather, simply knowing match ups.

 

[Woozle]

@Woozle- Because some people actually live in countries with an awful smash scene, and they enjoy having tourney's just as a way to meet other smashers and just to have fun. Granted I am the person least capable of discussing a topic like this because I have little tourney experience, but you can be sure that if I went to tourneys every month or every 3 weeks and if I were to get owned really bad on them, I would not switch characters.

And comparing tourneys to brawl meetings is stupid. It's completely different,even though both rock. I personally enjoy all the rules and cp's and the bracket's in tourneys. Brawl meetings is just... brawl. And if you do allow rules and cps and do kinda like a mini tourney, it still can't be compared to an actual tourney. And if you then go the extra mile to make it seem like a tourney, then well, it's becomes a tourney.

 

[Mecakoto]

This thread gives me the excuse to do this:

While this trope does not completely fit into the purpose of this thread and various posters in it, it fits enough to be semi-relevant. To save you time, this is what I want you to get out of it: (if you quote me, please copy and paste this to your post so the quote has context)

This kind of player takes the "pro" mentality to an annoying extreme (generally giving other tournament players a bad name), while the Scrub takes the casual mentality to an annoying extreme (generally giving other casual players a bad name.) In the real world, there's room for both, and game companies generally try to put something in their games for both sides; see Player Archetypes for details.

To supplement something on the Scrub page: What ultimately makes the Stop Having Fun Guy undesirable isn't the rulesetting; it is the attitude. What distinguishes the Stop Having Fun Guy from a regular competitive/tournament player who simply likes playing to win is that the Stop Having Fun Guy believes that his way is the only proper way to play the game.

Link to the article which was quoted.

 

[Stryks]

I really hate this mentality:
'if you wanna win use top tiers'

People have a better time adjusting to some characters than others, others want to prove their character can make it far into a tourney, and some people like using characters they actually like, all while still paying competitively.

I fit in those 3 areas, I had an easier time adjusting to pit and ganondorf than with snake or Dedede, I wanna prove pit and ganon- ok I wanna prove pit can get far into tournaments, and I only use characters I like, after all, this IS a game about nintendo's all stars.

Why would I buy the game if I HAVE to use a character I dont like to win?

 

[bundtcake]

I play the characters I'm best at, which for the most part are mid and low tier characters. I simply cannot play well as high/top tier characters (and I've tried! Snake is such a cool character, I tried to main him, but I can't play him well). I don't consider myself to have a "play to win" mentality, but I don't think that my actions would be any different if I did. I am currently playing the characters that I have the best chance of winning with, which also coincides with the characters I have the most fun playing.

Counter question: do you self-proclaimed "play to win" people avoid tournaments that players such as Ally or M2K are confirmed to be attending? Arguably you could go for the experience from friendlies and money matches (that of course, you would only accept if you believed you could win), but there would be no point in actually entering the tournament, as the competition would be above your level (most likely, I'm assuming that none of you are on Ally/M2K level).

I also think people in this thread are overestimating the amount of people that only play to win and do not play to have fun.

 

[GHNeko]

I really hate this mentality:
'if you wanna win use top tiers'

It's a hard knock life.

People have a better time adjusting to some characters than others, others want to prove their character can make it far into a tourney, and some people like using characters they actually like, all while still paying competitively.

And there is nothing wrong with any of those things. At all. They just don't fit a TRUE play to win mentality.

I fit in those 3 areas, I had an easier time adjusting to pit and ganondorf than with snake or Dedede, I wanna prove pit and ganon- ok I wanna prove pit can get far into tournaments, and I only use characters I like, after all, this IS a game about nintendo's all stars.

Repeat above statement.

Why would I buy the game if I HAVE to use a character I dont like to win?

Pretty irrelevant. The way you say that, it's as if you're going, "Hey, I'm going to buy this game for competitive purposes, and not because I enjoy it."

No one says you should by the game to use a character you dont like to win. you should only buy games you enjoy. Games you have fun with. There is nothing wrong with that. But that's just playing the game.

When you say, "Hey! I want to win a tourney!" then its a completely different ball game.

Counter question: do you self-proclaimed "play to win" people avoid tournaments that players such as Ally or M2K are confirmed to be attending? Arguably you could go for the experience from friendlies and money matches (that of course, you would only accept if you believed you could win), but there would be no point in actually entering the tournament, as the competition would be above your level (most likely, I'm assuming that none of you are on Ally/M2K level).

Uh. That's why you desire to get better. Ally/M2K aren't undefeatable. When you play to win, you play to get better so you can win. Even if you can't beat them at first, the best way to get better is to lose. That's how you learn. That's how you develop. That's how you improve. Duh.

I also think people in this thread are overestimating the amount of people that only play to win and do not play to have fun.

I didn't think people were doing that in this thread anyways. <_>

lol smashboards.

edit: tbh, picking top tiers for the sake of winning should only apply to people who want to win above all else. who's competitive desire and drive triumph over their desire for fun. if winning aint number one in your book, this OP and this whole thread is nothing but ******** to you and you're not going to see the other side of the arguement, me thinks.

 

[Jonas]

I agree with everything you say except this:

Unless you can beat everyone in the entire world with your low tier character, it's just pointless. Being the best low tier main means nothing if you're not actually winning tournaments.

It's equally pointless to main a top tier character unless you can beat everyone else.

But anyway, there is absolutely no reason at all to not main a top tier character. If people boooh you out because you do gay **** with MK, just ignore them. You're winning.

The other characters are there for a reason though. The game is more fun if you play a variety of characters, but it doesn't matter in a tournament setting. It's still fun to play in a tournament, but it's more fun if you win

 

[bundtcake]

edit: tbh, picking top tiers for the sake of winning should only apply to people who want to win above all else. who's competitive desire and drive triumph over their desire for fun. if winning aint number one in your book, this OP and this whole thread is nothing but ******** to you and you're not going to see the other side of the arguement, me thinks.

Agreed with everything here, but it seems to me that Stingers' post says that EVERYBODY in the competitive SSB community should pick top tiers, ignoring that competition exists on many levels of formality. Also, I'd assume that other people are similar to myself in that we can see the other side of the argument but it simply doesn't apply to us, though Stingers seems to suggest that it does. I thought you had the same opinion as Stingers, but since you don't, I agree with you

But anyway, there is absolutely no reason at all to not main a top tier character. If people boooh you out because you do gay **** with MK, just ignore them. You're winning.

If you play better with a high tier compared to a top tier, that would be a reason not to main a top tier character. Top tiers characters might have the most potential, but players themselves might be able to only unlock so much of that potential.

 

[Silly Kyle]

Everyone should play Peach. She's the best!!

 

[deepseadiva]

Everyone should play Peach. She's the best!!

This is correct.

 

[GHNeko]

Agreed with everything here, but it seems to me that Stingers' post says that EVERYBODY in the competitive SSB community should pick top tiers

tbh, everyone that wants to win SHOULD optimize their chances of winning by playing the overall best character. That's the absolute best way of winning. It's the most logical choice. It's clear-cut and quite obvious.

It's just that not everyone does that because they value their own enjoyment/pride/character more over winning.

But of course, there is nothing wrong with that. Just as so long as you accept the cons of doing so.

If you dont, stfu and pick a top tier.

It's simple.

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

I really hate this mentality:
'if you wanna win use top tiers'

People have a better time adjusting to some characters than others, others want to prove their character can make it far into a tourney, and some people like using characters they actually like, all while still paying competitively.

I fit in those 3 areas, I had an easier time adjusting to pit and ganondorf than with snake or Dedede, I wanna prove pit and ganon- ok I wanna prove pit can get far into tournaments, and I only use characters I like, after all, this IS a game about nintendo's all stars.

Why would I buy the game if I HAVE to use a character I dont like to win?

Pit is high tier. Considering how well Marth is doing in tournament results, I highly doubt his argument extends to high tier characters. Just saying.

Stingers... lol. People don't play the game with absolute intention of winning top national level tournaments. I guarantee that at least half of the Smash players in the world don't even KNOW that Smash is played at a competitive level. It can be played for a multitude of reasons.

I take this game very seriously and yet I still sometimes play matches with all items on in Special Brawl with only low tiers for lulz.

As for people maining low tier characters, I know a lot of them simply believe that the metagame is undeveloped for their characters (which I personally don't believe), or that their low tier status will likely improve their practical matchup percentages because no one gives a **** about studying their character's matchup vs. Link.

Really now. How many people actually care about winning National level tournaments, regardless of character? Most people aren't deluded enough into thinking it even MATTERS about character at that point, it's all about prediction and perfect play.

I think you're just trolling.

 

[archesjames]

I agree with some of the view express by senior members. it is quiet hot debate going on here. I'm pretty much enjoying it.this is equally pointless to main a top tier character unless you can beat everyone else.But, there is absolutely no reason at all to not main a top tier character. If people boooh you out, just ignore them. You're winning.

 

[GreenFox]

I main Dedede because I liked him when the game came out but I suck as most top tiers I'm horrible as Metaknight I can never win with him and I do alot better with worse characters.

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

I agree with some of the view express by senior members. it is quiet hot debate going on here. I'm pretty much enjoying it.this is equally pointless to main a top tier character unless you can beat everyone else.But, there is absolutely no reason at all to not main a top tier character. If people boooh you out, just ignore them. You're winning.

I enjoy meeting people like this, so I can troll the ever living shi*t out of them when they lose to non-high tier characters. Lrn2spacebar&grammar, btw.

 

[Mecakoto]

Hmm... Don't play anything other then high tier unless you can beat everyone in the world...
...
...
Sounds good. I'll aim for that.

 

[tankzortz]

imo, I prefer lower tiers to high tiers, as in ike, pt, and link. i win more low tier then hight tier