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Canada [Jul 26, 2014] B.C. Brawl Monthlies - Back in business, now featuring Smash 64! (Burnaby, BC)

Kantrip

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It's unfortunate, Arcansi.

Asking one to change oneself is foolish and inconsiderate, and so the only logical scenario is to seek out those who accept them for who they are. In cases where that is difficult to impossible, self reflection is a good place to go next. As unfair as this person may find it, their actions are causing them to be neglected or disliked by their peers. As illogical as they may find it, others all seem to share a common opinion. If an understanding as to why others feel the way they do can be reached, progress can be made to remedy the problem.

I can already tell, Arcansi, that you are attempting to see eye-to-eye with other people. If you weren't at one point, you have by now realized that with no one to listen to you, your ideas can never come to fruition or accomplish anything. The problem herein lies in your approach. The same reason people have ceased to listen to you is likely the reason they cease to listen when you try to reason with them. Even though you are trying a different approach, you are using the same method. Does this make sense?

There has to be a reason that the majority of people are disagreeing with you or otherwise just flat-out refusing to listen to you, right? As we know from history and other statistics, a group is not always right just for being the majority. However, neither is a minority who tells them they are not right without proving it to them. Just as an object will have a tendency to continue as it is unless a force is applied, an opinion is likely to go unchanged unless met with a compelling argument that it wants to hear.

That last part is a big point. Sometimes, there are those who would rather run the risk of remaining ignorant or inefficient and would like not to be forced to change their ways. Often, that's what I see with this group, Arcansi. Some people just aren't in the mood to withstand an applied force telling them to change their tendencies. You have to be met by willing ears. That alone will yield you a greater reception.
 

Arcansi

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just keep in mind that people in this thread dislike arguing against you in general.
I have yet to be told why this is so, however. I mean, all I want to do is understand how it's bad and all I get is that it's bad.

I ask myself why it's bad and guess what, I have no idea because I don't see it as bad in any way.

Like, I can't see it as disruptive or annoying because you can skip over it, etc...

Asking one to change oneself is foolish and inconsiderate, and so the only logical scenario is to seek out those who accept them for who they are. In cases where that is difficult to impossible, self reflection is a good place to go next. As unfair as this person may find it, their actions are causing them to be neglected or disliked by their peers. As illogical as they may find it, others all seem to share a common opinion. If an understanding as to why others feel the way they do can be reached, progress can be made to remedy the problem.

I can already tell, Arcansi, that you are attempting to see eye-to-eye with other people. If you weren't at one point, you have by now realized that with no one to listen to you, your ideas can never come to fruition or accomplish anything. The problem herein lies in your approach. The same reason people have ceased to listen to you is likely the reason they cease to listen when you try to reason with them. Even though you are trying a different approach, you are using the same method. Does this make sense?
If I understood what method was and why it was bad, it would make sense. I can understand the premise but not the mechanics, and as such I can't deal with it until I do so.



There has to be a reason that the majority of people are disagreeing with you or otherwise just flat-out refusing to listen to you, right? As we know from history and other statistics, a group is not always right just for being the majority. However, neither is a minority who tells them they are not right without proving it to them. Just as an object will have a tendency to continue as it is unless a force is applied, an opinion is likely to go unchanged unless met with a compelling argument that it wants to hear.

That last part is a big point. Sometimes, there are those who would rather run the risk of remaining ignorant or inefficient and would like not to be forced to change their ways. Often, that's what I see with this group, Arcansi. Some people just aren't in the mood to withstand an applied force telling them to change their tendencies. You have to be met by willing ears. That alone will yield you a greater reception.
How am I to be met by willing ears? There is no way I know of to find them, I guess testing the rule and then talking about it? That doesn't seem to change anything...

I basically need to go through you guys before I do much here, as my judgement only works for me...

:fluttershy:
 

Alacion

Sunny skies
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Arguing just isn't fun. That's all.

Exams are done on Friday for me. I'll be sane again then, I promise :(

To anybody with Premium, vote pancakes in the Disco Room thread. That is all.
 

Kantrip

Kantplay
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Doing another physics project tomorrow. For this one we are dropping an egg off the roof of our school so we had to build a contraption so that the egg would survive the impact.

We just put a bunch of cotton in a box and put the egg in there, and then put the box into another box with cotton in it.

Winning :cool:
 

Crisis

Smash Ace
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Understanding people is more useful than strong logical thinking, in society imo.

@above how bout a lot of helium balloons? Do you win if it floats up?
 

Arcansi

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Doing another physics project tomorrow. For this one we are dropping an egg off the roof of our school so we had to build a contraption so that the egg would survive the impact.

We just put a bunch of cotton in a box and put the egg in there, and then put the box into another box with cotton in it.

Winning :cool:
Cookie Dough (chocolate chip is what I used) works wonders FYI.

And suprises everyone because it's so heavy.

:fluttershy:

Understanding people is more useful than strong logical thinking, in society imo.
I cannot understand people because there is no process in which I can learn what people are like. This is why I usually end up asking them.

I can never know if one experience is correct because it will almost never correlate with myself and who else do I have to check it on? I'm not going to believe something the instant I hear it.
 

Kantrip

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Haha Crisis. Yeah we were like "let's add helium" since the contraption will be graded based on how small and light-weight we can make it, but in the end we're like "naww let's just use a box".

@Arcansi: Honestly, I don't know too much about each and every person's reasoning as to why they don't want to argue, and I haven't really felt negatively about your presence, but I'll be honest in saying I frequently ignore your posts when I am just "not in that mood".

Haha cookie dough.
 

Alacion

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Hm yeah couldn't you create something on the ground to cushion the drop? That way there is no extra mass being added to the egg...

Physics was always one of my worse subjects... sigh :(
 

SinisterB

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the most relevant


you know that just might be the most logical and best critical thinking i've seen in this thread

i completely understand
 

Arcansi

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@Arcansi: Honestly, I don't know too much about each and every person's reasoning as to why they don't want to argue, and I haven't really felt negatively about your presence, but I'll be honest in saying I frequently ignore your posts when I am just "not in that mood".
The only time I have ever had reason to ignore someone like this is because he was being illogical and harassing me in a way I didn't want done.

I can't find the logical link here, so I can't learn from it...

Thinking logically only works when you deal in logic.

So why do I deal in logic as a human(save some few things which I'm always working on) and nobody else seems to?

I don't get it...
 

Kantrip

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Dealing with logic doesn't mean to isolate oneself from emotional attachment. At that point they are less of a human trying to think logically, and more of a human removing themselves from characteristics which made them human in the first place.
 

Arcansi

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Dealing with logic doesn't mean to isolate oneself from emotional attachment. At that point they are less of a human trying to think logically, and more of a human removing themselves from characteristics which made them human in the first place.
I don't remove myself from emotional attachment to things, how would it seem to be that way?

Or maybe I do overall...

I can not stop being human without dieing or having something done to me on a genetic level, so whatever I do I must be a human.

Nothing I can reasonably do to myself would change this. I don't THINK I remove myself emotionally from things. How do you define this?
 

Kantrip

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The thing is, I am not trying to say you cease to become human, nor am I saying you attempt to do so. However, by thinking strictly "logically", you remove emotions (which are by nature "irrational" through a logical point of view). As an example that Kevin brought up earlier from a thread in the Debate Hall, somebody was suggesting "Death Panels" for the Elderly. They presented a number of pros to the scenario and to why the elderly should be killed off when they stop helping society. Now, from a strictly logical point of view, the idea was sound. It raised efficiency, it solved a plethora of problems, etc.

However, killing off the elderly is a terrible idea due to emotional attachments people feel with other people. This kind of thing is unexplainable except philosophically or psychologically, and by nature may seem irrational. I hope you can agree that as logically sound the idea may be, it is a bad thing to do.
 

Raninf

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Joined
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However, killing off the elderly is a terrible idea due to emotional attachments people feel with other people. This kind of thing is unexplainable except philosophically or psychologically, and by nature may seem irrational. I hope you can agree that as logically sound the idea may be, it is a bad thing to do.
I don't think that would be perfectly sound. the goal is not to be efficient, to solve a bunch of problems, etc (although it may be related to that), but rather to make maximum happiness for others. because of that, killing off the elderly may be harmful by bringing sorrow that hurts others more than the benefits help.

someone without feelings would not know this problem fully because that person would not feel the sorrow problem felt by others. someone really emotional would also have a subjective view because he/she would feel more sorrow than others and lean (possibly too much!) towards saving er... useless lives.

well there's my wasted first post. =\
so uh... when is the next tourney date going to be set?
 

Arcansi

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The thing is, I am not trying to say you cease to become human, nor am I saying you attempt to do so. However, by thinking strictly "logically", you remove emotions (which are by nature "irrational" through a logical point of view). As an example that Kevin brought up earlier from a thread in the Debate Hall, somebody was suggesting "Death Panels" for the Elderly. They presented a number of pros to the scenario and to why the elderly should be killed off when they stop helping society. Now, from a strictly logical point of view, the idea was sound. It raised efficiency, it solved a plethora of problems, etc.

However, killing off the elderly is a terrible idea due to emotional attachments people feel with other people. This kind of thing is unexplainable except philosophically or psychologically, and by nature may seem irrational. I hope you can agree that as logically sound the idea may be, it is a bad thing to do.
I've come across this before. Your looking at it on a personal level.

The system wasn't designed for a personal level of looking at it. The system was designed to help on a large scale, and it likely does.

It just requires society to let go of some of it's standards and understand things differently.

I don't see it as bad. I don't see it as good for us at this point and time, but it is definitely good overall.
 

Kantrip

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Lol, yeah but we are throwing the chicken off the roof with the egg still inside it. Also we thought we would hold onto the chicken as it descends so we can glide down.

 

SinisterB

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Raninf dawg yo

we aren't sure yet but it'll be sometime Jan, we'll probably have a smashfest in-between though


Anyways, who do you main? Anyone but Pit i hope :troll:
 

Kantrip

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Courier I did it, I caused Raninf to post after he has been lurking so much :p

Haha.

But yeah man that's my point, that emotional attachment prevents this from being a sound system. Arcansi's recent suggestion leads me to believe we should ignore/try to change the emotion attachment factor, which is what I meant originally as something we should not do.
 

Alacion

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i don't think that would be perfectly sound. The goal is not to be efficient, to solve a bunch of problems, etc (although it may be related to that), but rather to make maximum happiness for others. Because of that, killing off the elderly may be harmful by bringing sorrow that hurts others more than the benefits help.

Someone without feelings would not know this problem fully because that person would not feel the sorrow problem felt by others. Someone really emotional would also have a subjective view because he/she would feel more sorrow than others and lean (possibly too much!) towards saving er... Useless lives.

Well there's my wasted first post. =\
so uh... When is the next tourney date going to be set?
I have been waiting for you to post for the longest time!

Congrats on your first post here!
 

~Firefly~

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Going all-in with the grime
I don't think that would be perfectly sound. the goal is not to be efficient, to solve a bunch of problems, etc (although it may be related to that), but rather to make maximum happiness for others. because of that, killing off the elderly may be harmful by bringing sorrow that hurts others more than the benefits help.

someone without feelings would not know this problem fully because that person would not feel the sorrow problem felt by others. someone really emotional would also have a subjective view because he/she would feel more sorrow than others and lean (possibly too much!) towards saving er... useless lives.

well there's my wasted first post. =\
so uh... when is the next tourney date going to be set?
Hi Raninf! The next tournament will probably be set in the first week or so of January (maybe earlier), and the tournament itself will likely be mid to late January.

Oh, and don't mind the strange fellow about to come in and point out the sum of the last 4 digits of your friend code. He's harmless, really.

edit: lmao, I got mga-ninja'd whil copy-pasting vry instanc of th lttr e into my post bcaus th e ky on my kyboard is brokn and txt bcoms almost unradabl without it.

S what I man?

:005:
 

SinisterB

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i've been seeing it everywhere now too

thanks asa
 

Captain L

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jj what about that improve Christmas break tourney?

even with 10 people that'd be fine
 

Alacion

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Sigh Marth... at least it isn't Olimar.

@Landon I think Jake is leaving for Nova Scotia soon, in which case somebody else would have to set up stuff. I prefer a series of smashfests over a single tournament though :)
 

Alacion

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Hey at least you got an e at the very end. Looks like Jake's gonna be copy+pasting e for a very time.
 
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