Joker is a perfect example of why 3rd party characters (like HIM) don't belong in Super Smash Bros.

[Cutie Gwen]

You say this like Smash has characters with spotless track records. You need to ignore like 70% of Sonic's games at this point and Ice Climber's 1 and only game is considered "meh" at best.

Hating Sonic has mostly become a meme because it's cool to do not to mention that you're acting like a single person wanted Ice Climbers beyond the fact they've become veterans

 

[osby]

You say this like Smash has characters with spotless track records. You need to ignore like 70% of Sonic's games at this point and Ice Climber's 1 and only game is considered "meh" at best.

I'm just saying your argument is bad, no need to resort to "what about them?"

 

[PhantomShab]

Hating Sonic has mostly become a meme because it's cool to do not to mention that you're acting like a single person wanted Ice Climbers beyond the fact they've become veterans

I don't hate Sonic. I just hate the many bad games he's had. I never implied anyone actually likes Ice Climbers for their actual game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't hate Sonic. I just hate the many bad games he's had. I never implied anyone actually likes Ice Climbers for their actual game.

Remember when IGN went "lol Sonic was never good" despite the people there who reviewed Sonic games giving them good scores and a Sonic game even having a 10? That's what I mean with "It's cool to hate Sonic". People who want Banjo Kazooie want them because "Oh wasn't that a fun game?". By using Ice Climbers as a rebuttal, you're comparing them

 

[YoshiandToad]

Who do you think made spiky haired anime swordsmen with overly sized swords popular though? It's like Evangelion, while not too remarkable these days literally changed everything back when it debuted

True, but that doesn't change my point at all.

Cloud may have started it all, but I can still see why someone may not be able to pick him out of a line up of copycat JRPG heroes.

 

[PhantomShab]

Remember when IGN went "lol Sonic was never good" despite the people there who reviewed Sonic games giving them good scores and a Sonic game even having a 10? That's what I mean with "It's cool to hate Sonic". People who want Banjo Kazooie want them because "Oh wasn't that a fun game?". By using Ice Climbers as a rebuttal, you're comparing them

I'm comparing only in the sense that Smash already has characters in it who've had a mediocre game/games at one point or another. Nobody's track record is perfect, not even Mario's. Twisting my words around won't create some magical barrier to keep Banjo out. He's either already been decided on or he's not happening at all. Who cares about IGN? Yeah their dumb but that doesn't just erase Sonic's bad games lol.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm comparing only in the sense that Smash already has characters in it who've had a mediocre game/games at one point or another. Nobody's track record is perfect, not even Mario's. Twisting my words around won't create some magical barrier to keep Banjo out. He's either already been decided on or he's not happening at all.

Well the point was that only the minority of Banjo's games are liked amongst fans. Again, you bringing up Ice Climbers means you think that's a good comparison

 

[Captain Shades]

Bomber Man is far more well-known than Joker or Bayonetta which are only recent flavor of the months. Bomberman has been around since the NES era. I believe what hurt Bomberman's chances was having three Konami characters already. Richter Belmont likely took Bomberman's place because he was easier to make in a short span of time as a basic clone/semi-clone of Simon.

Ummm...This is debatable. Bomber Man died for a good stretch of time and has been known for a high Quantity of games that practically no one remembers. Bomber Man has a legacy, but I don’t think it’s as big as you are making it as his franchise followed the COD route of making numerous games and overflowing the market. I don’t think BM is really a character that is well recognized anymore outside of the retro games / Nintendo community which are relatively small as a whole.

Belmont’s took priority as they were said to be ballot winners, something no one on this site really seemed to vote for proving that Smash Boards is not a good indicator of popularity, and that you need to step outside to really see the larger scale.

Also, while Bayonetta and Joker are niche, they are from growing franchises that have made huge splashes in recent years. Persona really changed RPGs and UI design when P5 hit. The game was also considered as an opponent to BOTW at the 2017 Game Awards, that should say something that a game is being set against Mario and Zelda’s best outings. Bayonetta on the other hand has pretty much dethroned Dante for the hack and slash genre while also being a big figure for female and LGBT representation in gaming. Feminists have gone to great lengths to bring the franchise to the forefront of discussion on how social issues are portrayed in games (for better or worse..).

I believe what is hurting Rayman is Nintendo's dislike for non-Japanese made IP. Same is probably true of Crash.

I don’t think this effects them anymore. Nintendo is more than willing to work with Ubisoft and we have multiple western IPs in Smash from Rayman to Shovel Knight. Honestly, Rayman and Crash stand a decent chance at DLC, especially since Rayman is on the battlefield stage in an ice shard.

IMO, I wish that I could have had Miles "Tails" Prowers over Joker. It kind of sucks that Street Fighter and Castlevania got two characters but the Sonic series still only has one. The Sonic series could arguable be the biggest of the third party franchises (I believe Final Fantasy may beat it but very few others beat the Sonic series in popularity/iconic status. It is the face of SEGA).

You right, Sonic should have had an echo (probably Shadow). Other than Pac-Man, Sonic is like the only 3rd party that I bet non-gamers know of. The rest of the line up is more community specific, unless we get Minecraft as that’ll be the 3rd main stream title.

Regarding Banjo-Kazooie, I believe he has one of the most popular threads on this website. Nuff said. Smash fans want him and he is still popular. That is why he has 500 strings of posts in his support thread.

Don’t trust this website as I highlighted with the Belmonts. K Rool and Ridley were huge regardless of website, and were YouTube’s babies. YouTubers were the ones really pushing them, especially Ridley.

The Banjo thread may be big, but I feel that it suffers from being an echo chamber of the same individuals. They also bully competition, which is coming back to bite them as Steve is finally growing big enough to tell them off and dethrone them. I’ve seen Banjo fans get mad that the Steve fans are trashing their character, yet beforehand one guy saying he wants Steve was met with the Banjo squad rolling up to talk down to them.

I also think the Bomberman and Cloud argument is silly. Both are iconic. Bomberman, however, is more of the face of a franchise. Final Fantasy has different characters in each game (typically) so there isn't a face to their franchise. I would have preferred Black Mage from FF1 on the NES over Cloud.

I cannot agree with this. Cloud is the face of the franchise, he’s the one character that even non-fans will recognize. He’s also a major force in spin-offs such as Kingdom Hearts. I get he may not be in every title, but his influence is too large to neglect.

You say this like Smash has characters with spotless track records. You need to ignore like 70% of Sonic's games at this point and Ice Climber's 1 and only game is considered "meh" at best.

1. Ice Climbers are Nintendo so who cares....

2. Sonic is still one of the biggest gaming icons out there. He was the mascot for an entire system and was able to go toe to toe with Mario in sales and marketing. Even now, Sonic is still kicking harder than any 3rd party in Smash and has new games every two years or so. Meanwhile Banjo is a game on a Nintendo console from 5 generations ago with a decently sized fan base, you cannot even compare the two in scale as Sonic will win out.

 

[PhantomShab]

Well the point was that only the minority of Banjo's games are liked amongst fans. Again, you bringing up Ice Climbers means you think that's a good comparison

So 1 is a higher number than 2 now? This really is some galaxy brain logic here.

 

[Garteam]

I'm not the biggest supporter of Banjo, but I think saying "Banjo-Kazooie has had more bad games than good, so the series is bad" is kind of a faulty argument as it assumes that every game in the series is equally memorable and equally important.

I'm not going to defend the GBA outings or Nuts & Bolts, because those games are mediocre at best. However, that's not really what the series is remembered for. When anyone brings up Banjo-Kazooie, people immediately think of the first two entries and the quality that those games had. Discussion really only switches to the other 3 games when people get deep within the conversation. In the public sphere, the height of Banjo's best overshadows the mediocrity of his worst.

It's like saying "Most of the classic Sonic games are janky trash on the Game Gear, so classic Sonic really isn't that good". Is it true that the Game Gear games are pretty poor and they outnumber the Genesis games? Yes. That being said, most people would probably respond by bringing up how good Sonic 1-3/Knuckles/CD were and how they are able to excuse the lower points of Sonic's early years from the enjoyment they had from the mainline entries.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So 1 is a higher number than 2 now? This really is some galaxy brain logic here.

Banjo would be included for fan support. Ice Climbers were solely added for a gimmick. You're the one making the galaxy brain comparison

 

[PhantomShab]

Banjo would be included for fan support. Ice Climbers were solely added for a gimmick. You're the one making the galaxy brain comparison

Nah I'm not the one saying 1 is a bigger number than 2 here lol.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Nah I'm not the one saying 1 is a bigger number than 2 here lol.

If you truly believe that you bringing up a character nobody would have asked for was a good comparison to a character who'd have gotten in because of fan demand then I guess I can't stop you. There are people who regularly ignore science so that they can pretend they're right after all

 

[PhantomShab]

If you truly believe that you bringing up a character nobody would have asked for was a good comparison to a character who'd have gotten in because of fan demand then I guess I can't stop you. There are people who regularly ignore science so that they can pretend they're right after all

Please tell me how 2 is the minority in a group of 3.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Please tell me how 2 is the minority in a group of 3.

Three? Oh my god you actually don't know Banjo Kazooie has 5 games total

 

[PhantomShab]

Three? Oh my god you actually don't know Banjo Kazooie has 5 games total

I do. We were talking about the N64 games and Nuts and Bolts though, those 3 games.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I do. We were talking about the N64 games and Nuts and Bolts though, those 3 games.

Do Banjo Pilot and Grunty's Revenge just not exist then?

 

[PhantomShab]

Do Banjo Pilot and Grunty's Revenge just not exist then?

They do but how often do you see them actually discussed when the BK games are brought up?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

What did Richter do? Asking out of curiosity

Richter stars in what's considered the best Castlevania games.

Regardless, he's an echo fighter, so I'd imagine different rules apply.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

They do but how often do you see them actually discussed when the BK games are brought up?

That's my point exactly, people are ignoring those games meaning when people go "Oh I like Banjo Kazooie!" they mean 2 games out of 5. Which is the minority. As 2 is less than 3.

 

[PhantomShab]

That's my point exactly, people are ignoring those games meaning when people go "Oh I like Banjo Kazooie!" they mean 2 games out of 5. Which is the minority. As 2 is less than 3.

That doesn't even mean that those games are bad. Just easily missable because of how under the radar they are. I've never played them though so I can't speak for their quality.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That doesn't even mean that those games are bad. Just easily missable because of how under the radar they are. I've never played them though so I can't speak for their quality.

It still means that people don't care enough. It's not like say, Rondo of Blood or Mother 3, which people mostly pirated to get an opinion on the games

 

[PhantomShab]

It still means that people don't care enough. It's not like say, Rondo of Blood or Mother 3, which people mostly pirated to get an opinion on the games

Well then it looks like Banjo really is cancelled.

 

[volbound1700]

I think the days of "3rd parties have to be a massive icon to get into Smash!" and "3rd parties must have a significant tie to Nintendo!" are long over (if they ever existed is even up for debate, but digress) due to one simple reason: the amount of characters that meet this strict criteria is becoming thinner and thinner.

Thinking back to the period between Brawl and Smash for where this expectation was most strongly held, most of the names that were commonly brought up are already playable (Sonic, Mega Man, Cloud, Simon, etc.) or appear in a non-playable role (Ray-Man, Bomberman, etc.). In my opinion, the only major character that is not in the game and really meets these requirements is Erdrick, a character who gets more and more likely everyday.

With this ever dwindling pool of potential third party fighters, Sakurai really only has two options on his hands:

1. Stop including 3rd parties in Smash entirely.
2. Loosen the criteria to allow more niche characters in.

Personally, I think most people would prefer the second option. Variety is the spice of life and that's especially true within the context of Smash. More characters is always preferable to less characters, double so if these characters bring something new and unique to the table. Joker is a great example of that. He's (debatably) the least recognizable third party thus far, and he has the weakest connection to Nintendo on the roster. However, he brings so many fun and unique ideas to the table that he more than justifies his place in the roster. Remember that Smash is a video game first and a Nintendo museum second, so "Would this be a fun idea?" should probably hold more bearing than "Does this represent Nintendo well?".

That being said, I do understand why some people are experiencing third party fatigue. However, that has more to do with the fact that much of Smash speculation has been themed entirely around third parties more-so than actual trends within the roster. I think it's more likely than not that we'll see at least one Nintendo character in the Fighter's Pass, which will hopefully make the discussion of Nintendo DLC characters less taboo and eliminate some of the monopoly that third parties hold within the DLC discussion.

Your argument is one or the other and fails. I give you a list of characters that would be popular and still fit the "support Nintendo" category.

1. Tails
2. Knuckles
3. Shadow
4. Bomberman
5. Crash Bandicoot
6. Rayman
7. Bass
8. Ryun Hasabaru
9. Slime
10. Erdrick
11. Sora
12. Epic Mickey

I could keep going. All characters have significance to Nintendo.

There are still first party characters like Impa, Toad, Bandana Dee, Isaac, etc.

All of these characters are better for then Joker. Even Doom Guy is a better fit due to Doom 64 being exclusive to Nintendo

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Your argument is one or the other and fails. I give you a list of characters that would be popular and still fit the "support Nintendo" category.

1. Tails
2. Knuckles
3. Shadow
4. Bomberman
5. Crash Bandicoot
6. Rayman
7. Bass
8. Ryun Hasabaru
9. Slime
10. Erdrick
11. Sora
12. Epic Mickey

I could keep going. All characters have significance to Nintendo.

There are still first party characters like Impa, Toad, Bandana Dee, Isaac, etc.

All of these characters are better for then Joker. Even Doom Guy is a better fit due to Doom 64 being exclusive to Nintendo

Lmao you're acting like Mickey ****ing Mouse is an actual possibility. And no, Sora doesn't have significance to Nintendo lmao. if Sora gets significance for games that got ported over then Joker has significance with a 3DS exclusive.

Also you're forgetting who picked Joker. Nintendo themselves

 

[Garteam]

Your argument is one or the other and fails. I give you a list of characters that would be popular and still fit the "support Nintendo" category.

1. Tails
2. Knuckles
3. Shadow
4. Bomberman
5. Crash Bandicoot
6. Rayman
7. Bass
8. Ryun Hasabaru
9. Slime
10. Erdrick
11. Sora
12. Epic Mickey

I could keep going. All characters have significance to Nintendo.

There are still first party characters like Impa, Toad, Bandana Dee, Isaac, etc.

All of these characters are better for then Joker. Even Doom Guy is a better fit due to Doom 64 being exclusive to Nintendo

Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, and Bass are all from series that are already in Smash. As far as we know, Sakurai still isn't big on the idea of giving 3rd Party franchises multiple characters that aren't echoes. We could see this change, but I really think Sakurai would rather add a new series than expand on existing ones, at least right now.

Bomberman is already in the game as an assist trophy, so he's off the table.

Same thing with Rayman. While he could get in, It'd be odd that he has a spirit in the base game but is saved later for DLC.

I already addressed Erdrick (and by extension, Slime) in my original write-up. I agree that Erdrick is one of the few characters left that meet this criteria, but it's also extremely likely he's in by this point.

Crash and Sora are largely considered Playstation Icons. While they have had games on Nintendo systems, their most iconic outings were Sony games.

Mickey isn't a game character. Plus, I'd really hesitate to call Epic Mickey iconic. The first game performed well, but people have basically forgot it existed.

The only one I'll give you is Ryu Hayabusa. I kinda forgot about him. That's my bad.

This isn't to knock the characters you listed, they'd all be fun additions. This is to show that the pool of characters who are both iconic and have strong ties to Nintendo is growing thinner and thinner. It's pretty hard to find third parties that meet this criteria and don't have a role in Smash.

Besides, I also address the prevalence of third parties over first parties in Smash discussion, and I think a lot of people are over-estimating how much of the DLC will be third parties. As such, there's this feeling among much of the Smash community that third parties are "stealing spots" from first parties. That being said, this simply isn't true. While development resources are limited, just because one character gets in doesn't mean that another is inherently excluded. Just because Joker's in the game doesn't mean that Bandana Dee or Dixie aren't. Sakurai is going to find a way to include as many characters as he wishes to.

 

[Nemuresu]

Besides, I also address the prevalence of third parties over first parties in Smash discussion, and I think a lot of people are over-estimating how much of the DLC will be third parties.

I gotta be that man, but that's quite an overstatement you make there.
People aren't just suggesting guests will overtake the roster just because of Joker's inclusion. There's a lot of background to think that the line-up definitely doesn't include Nintendo characters:
*Reggie saying Joker is emblematic to the DLC
*Piranha Plant not having an available spirit until being included in the game
*None of the Nintendo characters that have been DLC ever got the full package that this packs will offer, while there's been four different third-party character that did offer that
*And then there's Nintendo's marketing chief confessing that they're aim with Smash is to bring as many new users as possible
If there's a Nintendo character in the Pass, be my guest, but so far, there's no much reason to believe there will be one.

 

[Garteam]

I gotta be that man, but that's quite an overstatement you make there.
People aren't just suggesting guests will overtake the roster just because of Joker's inclusion. There's a lot of background to think that the line-up definitely doesn't include Nintendo characters:
*Reggie saying Joker is emblematic to the DLC
*Piranha Plant not having an available spirit until being included in the game
*None of the Nintendo characters that have been DLC ever got the full package that this packs will offer, while there's been four different third-party character that did offer that
*And then there's Nintendo's marketing chief confessing that they're aim with Smash is to bring as many new users as possible
If there's a Nintendo character in the Pass, be my guest, but so far, there's no much reason to believe there will be one.

While I could see how someone would come to this conclusion, it seems like this is some pretty iffy evidence to draw such a drastic deduction:
-Reggie's quote seems to refer more to playstyle and moveset than character origin, seeing how he said that the characters would be "unique, different, to bring into the Smash environment".

-While Piranha Plant didn't have a spirit in the base game, we're not entirely sure if a spirit completely deconfirms a character. Mewtwo and Lucas had trophies in the base game and both became DLC fighters. Plus, a lot of fighters have additional spirits alongside their fighter spirits, so it's not entirely unheard of for a character to have both fighter and non-fighter spirits.

-It's true we haven't seen a first party DLC fighter that came with a stage, but that's not to say its impossible. Only Mario, Zelda, Splatoon, and Castlevania received new stages, so it wouldn't be too weird if a first party DLC character brought a new stage for their franchise with them. Plus, we have seen a first party fighter bring new music, as Corrin brought Lost in Thoughts All Alone with them in Smash for.

-I couldn't find this exact quote, but does this mean they want Smash to bring new Switch owners or that they want DLC to bring new Smash owners? Either way, it's weird to use DLC for one specific game as a system seller. I could see someone buying Smash after being on the fence for awhile after seeing a new DLC character, but I can't see a DLC character selling someone on a Switch.

 

[Nemuresu]

While I could see how someone would come to this conclusion, it seems like this is some pretty iffy evidence to draw such a drastic deduction:
-Reggie's quote seems to refer more to playstyle and moveset than character origin, seeing how he said that the characters would be "unique, different, to bring into the Smash environment".

Not really, he also brought this up in that very interview:

We want all the best content on our platform. All the best content, all the best developers. And so our job is to continue growing the install base for Nintendo Switch to drive engagement of our players, to grow the audience. As that happens, then developers see the opportunity,

This phrase echoes in something I'll bring up later.

-While Piranha Plant didn't have a spirit in the base game, we're not entirely sure if a spirit completely deconfirms a character. Mewtwo and Lucas had trophies in the base game and both became DLC fighters.

Trophies=/=Spirits
They were a stand-in, but what happened with the Plant suggests these characters don't appear in the base game at all. Otherwise, why would Nintendo hold it back?

-It's true we haven't seen a first party DLC fighter that came with a stage, but that's not to say its impossible. Only Mario, Zelda, Splatoon, and Castlevania received new stages, so it wouldn't be too weird if a first party DLC character brought a new stage for their franchise with them. Plus, we have seen a first party fighter bring new music, as Corrin brought Lost in Thoughts All Alone with them in Smash for.

And Corrin's songs were used for an existing Fire Emblem stage instead of making a new one; same with the fact that there wasn't a new Pokémon stage. If that doesn't show Sakurai has no interest in making new content for veteran franchises, then I don't know what it means. Those decisions were all on him.

-I couldn't find this exact quote, but does this mean they want Smash to bring new Switch owners or that they want DLC to bring new Smash owners? Either way, it's weird to use DLC for one specific game as a system seller. I could see someone buying Smash after being on the fence for awhile after seeing a new DLC character, but I can't see a DLC character selling someone on a Switch.

Here:

With Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, we asked 'How could we reach not only fans of the Super Smash Bros. series, but also those who had never played it before?' If you look at the demographics of the consumers who purchased each of these titles, Iʼm not convinced weʼve completely overcome these challenges yet. So our aims are to keep working on them this year, to expand sales of these titles to new consumer demographics, and to keep selling these games for a long time, which is one of our strengths.

It's pretty much just like Reggie suggested, expanding the Switch's userbase. Now, whether these DLC characters succeed at bringing new people is a different topic (since it would require sale numbers), but the purpose is there.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Trophies=/=Spirits
They were a stand-in, but what happened with the Plant suggests these characters don't appear in the base game at all. Otherwise, why would Nintendo hold it back? .

A seperate team chose the spirits.

And Corrin's songs were used for an existing Fire Emblem stage instead of making a new one; same with the fact that there wasn't a new Pokémon stage. If that doesn't show Sakurai has no interest in making new content for veteran franchises, then I don't know what it means. Those decisions were all on him.

There were over 100 stages in the base game (counting Final Destination and Battlefield forms, technically over 300), so it's not surprising the amount of new stages is low.

 

[Nemuresu]

A seperate team chose the spirits.

And so far, we haven't seen their choices clashing with the characters that Sakurai choose.

There were over 100 stages in the base game (counting Final Destination and Battlefield forms, technically over 300), so it's not surprising the amount of new stages is low.

Maybe for Pokémon, but what about Corrin? There was really no good reason to not give him a new stage like they did Ryu, Cloud and Bayonetta. The opportunity was there, and it wasn't used.

 

[meleebrawler]

And so far, we haven't seen their choices clashing with the characters that Sakurai choose.


Maybe for Pokémon, but what about Corrin? There was really no good reason to not give him a new stage like they did Ryu, Cloud and Bayonetta. The opportunity was there, and it wasn't used.

Base roster is decided early on, likely before spirits, and Piranha Plant counts as part of that due to reasons already explained. DLC fighters are a different story, as we've seen with Mewtwo and Lucas in Smash 4. They're not the type to hold off on representation just because they might make a playable character down the line.

Those third party spirits without a fighter like Rayman and Shantae could very well be a way to acknowledge strong ballot support in the base game, but they won't let that stop them from making them playable if plans work out that way. Wayforward at least hasn't given up the Shantae dream and doesn't want it's fans to either, and I'd imagine they'd know better than anyone if Nintendo told them it definitely isn't happening. Think of those spirits as something like insurance or hedging bets, ensuring the fans at least get something instead of nothing.

 

[The DanMan051]

Lmao you're acting like Mickey ****ing Mouse is an actual possibility. And no, Sora doesn't have significance to Nintendo lmao. if Sora gets significance for games that got ported over then Joker has significance with a 3DS exclusive.

Also you're forgetting who picked Joker. Nintendo themselves

This is where I have to disagree with you: half the Kingdom Hearts series debuted on Nintendo handhelds.
Chain of Memories on the GBA, 358/2 Days and Re:Coded on the DS, and 3D on the 3DS.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Base roster is decided early on, likely before spirits, and Piranha Plant counts as part of that due to reasons already explained. DLC fighters are a different story, as we've seen with Mewtwo and Lucas in Smash 4. They're not the type to hold off on representation just because they might make a playable character down the line.

Exactly. Spirits could end up deconfirming (though if it does deconfirm, I think it'd only do so for this Fighters Pass and not any potential future ones), but we don't know enough to say they definitively will one way or the other, especially when we know a grand total of 1 of the 5 fighter pass characters.

 

[Opossum]

If anything, I'd say what makes most Nintendo franchises unlikely to get a DLC character is the fact that every DLC pack comes with new spirits. Unless you're something like Pokémon or Fire Emblem, where Sword/Shield or Three Houses can bring in new spirits, I think most Nintendo franchises are kinda SOL.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

every DLC pack comes with new spirits.

This wasn't said.

The only things confirmed were a new character, a new stage and new music tracks.

 

[BlueMonk]

This wasn't said.

The only things confirmed were a new character, a new stage and new music tracks.

It was confirmed

this is the translation of one of his tweets: https://twitter.com/NintendoVS/status/1118589840537186304

And this is the original tweet: https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/1118342920979927042

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I'm sorry about that sentence, it wasn't clear. I meant that Final Fantasy was less known than Mario, Sonic, Bomberman at their time, but maybe was more well known during the Pokemon era. I'm sorry, it was clear in my head ...

It’s alright since it wasn’t clear...I was bout to go ape**** on some fools if that was intentional



...not really

Richter stars in what's considered the best Castlevania games.

Regardless, he's an echo fighter, so I'd imagine different rules apply.

Ah

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

Not gonna read the entirety of this thread as I rarely post on here anymore. But yes I agree Joker is terrible and may be one of the worst characters added to Smash IMO. Not to mention the character is borderline OP. I swear all you have to do is hold down B to win with him. His Arsen meter charges way to fast, his counter may be the most safe counter in the game, the range of both his recoveries is ridiculous and I just hate the character in general.

But whats done is done. None of this ridiculous **** would've happened if 3rd parties stayed out of Smash entirely. If the videogame companies wanted to come together and make "Videogame characters: The Fighting game" cool. But they have simply changed Smash Bros. from what it originally was. If K.Rool and Ridley hadnt been added to this game I wouldnt even have bought it and Im sure as hell not buying the rest of this lame probably JRPG anime ridden fighters pass. Not mad though Nintendo has plenty of other titles coming out this year that will probably make me forget Smash even came out.

 

[UserKev]

Ridley didn't fit the cartoony style of Smash yet here he is, with his reveal trailer having him violenty crush Mario's skull in a manner that reminds me of the old Devilman OVA (Devilman is inherently incredibly gorey and has nudity and sexual assault so if you want to look it up you've been warned).

Ridley, IS an Nintendo character. Ridley FEELS like a Nintendo character. Ridley's aesthetic IS Nintendo. And he didn't exactly stomp Mario's skull. It wasn't shown. Ridley's trailer was more about quick strikes, very akin to Smash. Everything else you stated was on point.