Meta Jigglypuff Competitive and Metagame Discussion

[Toxicroaker]

What do you guys think on Jigglypuff's custom side specials? They are all pretty good. For those of you who don't know, I'll tell you what each of them are used for.
Side 1: Slow and a bit laggy, but has really high priority and shield damage. It is a great anti-approach option, and pretty good if you can predict a shield. Hitting with it also sets up pretty good for up-air strings. It probably shouldn't be used for approaches, though, because it is pretty laggy and stops most of her momentum.
Side 2: This has has more range, and is multi-hit, at the cost of priority and shield damage. This makes it better for approaching, but a bit worse as an anti-approach option. It also sends the opponent upwards, so it can start up-air strings just like the default.
Side 3: This one is more of a gimping tool than anything else. It doesn't have the same crazy shield damage as the first one or the same crazy priority(?). It also completely stops your forward movement, making it even worse for approaching. The one up-side to this move is it's diagonally down knockback that completely kills recoveries.
Like I said, thay're pretty much all just as good, but all preform different roles. I use the default the majority of the time, but I will use the other two in specific matchups. e.g. I will use side 3 against DHD, because he won't usually approach and his recovery sucks.

 

[SyncNatsyu]

What do you guys think on Jigglypuff's custom side specials? They are all pretty good. For those of you who don't know, I'll tell you what each of them are used for.
Side 1: Slow and a bit laggy, but has really high priority and shield damage. It is a great anti-approach option, and pretty good if you can predict a shield. Hitting with it also sets up pretty good for up-air strings. It probably shouldn't be used for approaches, though, because it is pretty laggy and stops most of her momentum.
Side 2: This has has more range, and is multi-hit, at the cost of priority and shield damage. This makes it better for approaching, but a bit worse as an anti-approach option. It also sends the opponent upwards, so it can start up-air strings just like the default.
Side 3: This one is more of a gimping tool than anything else. It doesn't have the same crazy shield damage as the first one or the same crazy priority(?). It also completely stops your forward movement, making it even worse for approaching. The one up-side to this move is it's diagonally down knockback that completely kills recoveries.
Like I said, thay're pretty much all just as good, but all preform different roles. I use the default the majority of the time, but I will use the other two in specific matchups. e.g. I will use side 3 against DHD, because he won't usually approach and his recovery sucks.

Side1: The main one I use just for the priority. Its a nice thing to stop approaches/break shields and it helps me get back on stage.

Side2: I think I used this when someone mentioned it comboing into our jumping rest custom. other than that it seems to last longer, so against specific moves such as spotdodge or lucario's up b it works wonders stopping them.

Side3: I either never unlocked it or never used it but that downward KB seems nice. However our gimping is still pretty good outside of a few match-ups

Meanwhile might I ask what everyone also thinks of our D-tilt and Down smash?(In addition to the side specials)
I like D-tilt when I jab twice> d-tilt or jab twice> jab twice > d-tilt. By no means a true combo but since jigg's jabs are slow some people drop their shield early thinking they can punish. With d-tilt pushing them away.

Our d-smash I think has a really good effect on grounded foes. It forces slide even when uncharged and if they get sent sliding off stage they are launched down and away from the stage. so anyone with a poor horizontal recovery isn't getting back

 

[snaptrap]

Side1: The main one I use just for the priority. Its a nice thing to stop approaches/break shields and it helps me get back on stage.

Side2: I think I used this when someone mentioned it comboing into our jumping rest custom. other than that it seems to last longer, so against specific moves such as spotdodge or lucario's up b it works wonders stopping them.

Side3: I either never unlocked it or never used it but that downward KB seems nice. However our gimping is still pretty good outside of a few match-ups

Meanwhile might I ask what everyone also thinks of our D-tilt and Down smash?(In addition to the side specials)
I like D-tilt when I jab twice> d-tilt or jab twice> jab twice > d-tilt. By no means a true combo but since jigg's jabs are slow some people drop their shield early thinking they can punish. With d-tilt pushing them away.

Our dSmash I think has a really good effect on grounded foes. It forces slide even when uncharged and if they get sent sliding off stage they are launched down and away from the stage. so anyone with a poor horizontal recovery isn't getting back

dSmash is pretty useless outside of being a situational kill move. The range is poor, the lag is bad, so the risk isn't worth the reward most of the time. It also can't be used as a combo finisher like uSmash, and dSmash doesn't set up for anything. If you need to kill, uAir>Rest at the right percentages or just an fSmash or uSmash will do the trick just as well, with far less risk. If you need to rack up damage, uTilt and uAir into anything is far better.
dTilt however, is very good. It's great when combined with your jab combo examples and also when your opponent whiffs because of Jiggly's insanely low crouch. It's a very safe punish, and it has decent range, so it's easy to land for a bit more percentage.

 

[Browny]

Hello

I've been a jiggly main in melee/pm for about 2.5 years since getting back into smash, keen to troll fools all day long with her in Smash 4.

We dont get smash 4 until nov 29 and I refuse to play the 3DS version because I cant use retreating bairs. How is she on the WiiU version? What are her buffs/nerfs compared to brawl (I know shes not going to be a top tier character like her melee incarnation)

My main question is how well can she combo into rest. Everyone says there is more hitstun in this game, can we rest out of uthrow/utilt/uair/soft fair-bair/jab reset?

 

[ZHMT]

You can combo into rest but it won't ko unless you have some rage bonus, aka Jiggs has to be at high percents for it to ko. Fastfalling an up air can combo into rest the best though and doesn't require a rage bonus to ko as you can uair them at a higher percent and follow up. Strong fair can actually combo into rest since it can combo into nair, but it has to be staled a bit. There is enough hitstun to fair x3 a character offstage and gimp. Up throw has way too much knockback to combo into anything in this game. Her throws has no followups really and are mainly used for positioning and damage.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Went to KTAR yesterday, got some Jigglypuff results.

3rd Place in Doubles, partnered w/ Vex. Jiggs/Little Mac. Beat Denti and Dabuz in a set.

Top 32 in Singles (out of 167 entrants) with Shulk/Jiggs.

My doubles matches got recorded but my singles were not.

 

[ZHMT]

Good stuff =], nice to see Jiggs do well, any input on matchups?

Also since the WiiU version has smaller blast zones generally, I figure I would post this.

KO percents of moves vs Mario from center FD, no DI.
Bair from 110% on 3ds to 103% on WiiU
Rest from 60% on 3ds to 54% on Wiiu
Utilt from 133% to 127%
Usmash back hit 117 on 3ds to 112%
Fsmash KOs at 105% on WiiU

Back air is still the premium KO move, Utilt is still good considering its easier to hit with and its safer, back hit usmash is the stronger option though.

Notes:
-Utilt is stronger than the forward/late hits of Usmash by a noticeable amount.
-Strong back air is stronger than Fsmash lulz.
-As strong as Nair feels, it didnt ko until 150%.

 

[Browny]

How is dash attack? I liked to use it a lot for kills on the edge but I see massive auto-snapping to the ledge looks like it could ruin that...

I hope she is really good in this game. I like the satisfaction of winning in a fighting game vs anime sword users with a cute pink puffball. It never gets old.

 

[Jiggly]

How is dash attack? I liked to use it a lot for kills on the edge but I see massive auto-snapping to the ledge looks like it could ruin that...

I hope she is really good in this game. I like the satisfaction of winning in a fighting game vs anime sword users with a cute pink puffball. It never gets old.

I only use dash Attack to punish moves with end lag, although nair is generally a better approach. Sometimes there just isn't enough frames to use a nair, so that's one of the only times dash Attack is applicable.

 

[Funtroon]

Played Jigglypuff in a tournament this past weekend to celebrate the release of SSBU. Please skip to 13:58 to watch me play a Link player. I'd love to hear your critiques on how I play the cutest character on the roster.

http://www.twitch.tv/falcon_arena/b/591204706

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Played Jigglypuff in a tournament this past weekend to celebrate the release of SSBU. Please skip to 13:58 to watch me play a Link player. I'd love to hear your critiques on how I play the cutest character on the roster.

http://www.twitch.tv/falcon_arena/b/591204706

I'm surprised you never really attempted to use Rest at any point.

I think using Nair when Link was below the stage to hinder his ability to recover would have been useful. In fact, considering how relatively long the attack is out, I think you should have used Nair somewhat more as one of your tools to approach your opponent from the air.

I don't know why you used Sing at a random time

Overall, pretty good.

 

[Funtroon]

I'm surprised you never really attempted to use Rest at any point.

I think using Nair when Link was below the stage to hinder his ability to recover would have been useful. In fact, considering how relatively long the attack is out, I think you should have used Nair somewhat more as one of your tools to approach your opponent from the air.

I don't know why you used Sing at a random time

Overall, pretty good.

It was my first fighting game tournament, period. So I was playing it safe for not using Rest.

Really appreciate your comments!

 

[Coonce]

Went to KTAR yesterday, got some Jigglypuff results.

3rd Place in Doubles, partnered w/ Vex. Jiggs/Little Mac. Beat Denti and Dabuz in a set.

Top 32 in Singles (out of 167 entrants) with Shulk/Jiggs.

My doubles matches got recorded but my singles were not.

Your Jiggs/Little Mac team was a lot of fun to watch. Definitely good synergy. But seeing you get batted away while they teamed up on Little Mac was depressing.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Your Jiggs/Little Mac team was a lot of fun to watch. Definitely good synergy. But seeing you get batted away while they teamed up on Little Mac was depressing.

Me and Vex lost a lot of communication and choked during that Losers Finals Set. Jiggs/Mac will always be our team combo, I just gotta learn when its not worth it to save him, I died too many times because of that.

 

[Funtroon]

I was playing a Little Mac player yesterday with Jiggs and something weird happened towards the end of the match.

The Little Mac player used he KO punch and I used Jigg's Sing. Sing completely ignored Mac's KO punch and put Mac to sleep allowing me to follow up with a Rest kill.

Bizarre...

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I was playing a Little Mac player yesterday with Jiggs and something weird happened towards the end of the match.

The Little Mac player used he KO punch and I used Jigg's Sing. Sing completely ignored Mac's KO punch and put Mac to sleep allowing me to follow up with a Rest kill.

Bizarre...

Interesting.

 

[Funtroon]

Here is a video of the incident that happened with Jigglypuff and Little Mac that I wrote about two posts ago:

 

[lRasha]

Here is a video of the incident that happened with Jigglypuff and Little Mac that I wrote about two posts ago:

I just wanna say... I enjoyed the video that played after this. It was you versus Zero's Meta Knight. I really liked that you were using Sing.

 

[SyncNatsyu]

Here is a video of the incident that happened with Jigglypuff and Little Mac that I wrote about two posts ago:

I believe it has something to do with what the charging moves vs sing did when they were tested:
http://smashboards.com/threads/analysis-sing-custom-upbs-and-sing-stopped-attacks.373896/

Basically it canceled the attacks hitbox thanks to one of the three hitboxes of sing(doesn't work most of the time and it helped that the LM ran into you first before initiating the K.O. punch.)

----

Edit: oh so I don't double post

dSmash is pretty useless outside of being a situational kill move. The range is poor, the lag is bad, so the risk isn't worth the reward most of the time. It also can't be used as a combo finisher like uSmash, and dSmash doesn't set up for anything. If you need to kill, uAir>Rest at the right percentages or just an fSmash or uSmash will do the trick just as well, with far less risk. If you need to rack up damage, uTilt and uAir into anything is far better.
dTilt however, is very good. It's great when combined with your jab combo examples and also when your opponent whiffs because of Jiggly's insanely low crouch. It's a very safe punish, and it has decent range, so it's easy to land for a bit more percentage.

True on d-smash being situational but its a nice option if they roll into you, even more so on the edge since even uncharged ones will push them back quite abit. Never meant it to be a damage move.

 

[ZHMT]

This character is so underrated its sickening. I really want Jigglypuff represented well, let's alal show people what she can do.

I really wonder why she seems like one of the least used or liked characters to me. Maybe its because she's slow and light so she's punished harder for a mistake?

At least she's likely shielded from nerfs in patches.

 

[SyncNatsyu]

This character is so underrated its sickening. I really want Jigglypuff represented well, let's alal show people what she can do.

I really wonder why she seems like one of the least used or liked characters to me. Maybe its because she's slow and light so she's punished harder for a mistake?

At least she's likely shielded from nerfs in patches.

Might be just who you're fighting. ATM I can only find Luca, Samus, Mario, and LM

Jigglypuff isn't exactly as slow as she seems. our fast fall is incredibly fast given her weight(though this may be a universal trait when a move hits then is FF) In the air Kirby is the slowest, seriously you can really feel the difference like shulk when switching between kirby and jiggs. And we being punished is mostly due to our lack of disjointed range/projectiles. Getting in on someone like Lucina can be difficult.

Though more to the point I feel she is more underrated than overrated.

 

[drakeirving]

Re: Mac silliness: It's probably the same as any other attack that interrupts KO Punch before its hit frame. The difference is that Sing doesn't cancel active animations or momentum (while just attacking will put Mac into hitstun animation), which as mentioned above is the same reason why the charge moves cancel. Note Mac switches to sleeping animation while the uppercut animation plays on top.

 

[ZHMT]

Might be just who you're fighting. ATM I can only find Luca, Samus, Mario, and LM

Jigglypuff isn't exactly as slow as she seems. our fast fall is incredibly fast given her weight(though this may be a universal trait when a move hits then is FF) In the air Kirby is the slowest, seriously you can really feel the difference like shulk when switching between kirby and jiggs. And we being punished is mostly due to our lack of disjointed range/projectiles. Getting in on someone like Lucina can be difficult.

Though more to the point I feel she is more underrated than overrated.

I'm not directing my post towards For Glory matches, I'm talking more about the competitive community as a whole. Jigglypuff has little representation at the moment. Its not like there are Puffs at the bottom of every tournament result piloted by good players. There just aren't any Puffs really.

Also I'm fairly certain Puff falls slower than Kirby, we just move faster than Kirby horizontally. She's not a slow character if played well, but compare her to someone like Fox, Shulk, Mac, Sheik, Falcon , Sonic etc. People can be fast and flashy just by moving with those characters.

Oh, and its not hard to get in on Marth/Lucina. If you mix up attacking when you move in and not attacking via empty jumps or delayed attacks every approach is a mixup in itself. The only way that its hard to get in is when you attack every time you approach, then he/she can anti air with jab/ftilt etc. Once you get them to whiff moves, its very easy to show them why the matchup is in our favor.

 

[greenluigiman2]

Jiggs may not have a lot of representation, but she has some high profile representation (Hbox).

 

[winner133]

Can anyone test this jiggly combo? Dthrow<uair<uair<rest I did it on a Samus today

 

[ZHMT]

Dthrow shouldn't combo into uair, any character can air dodge.

 

[winner133]

Dthrow shouldn't combo into uair, any character can air dodge.

Hmm Ok, Thanks

 

[Jiggly]

I've never been able to pull off Uair to rest, how exactly does it work?

 

[ZHMT]

I've never been able to pull off Uair to rest, how exactly does it work?

I've never been able to pull off Uair to rest, how exactly does it work?

You have to fast fall up air and hit them while they are grounded with the latter hits of up air and jump as soon as you can after the landing lag.

It can work in the air if you hit them with the last couple frames of the move and they DI poorly.

 

[winner133]

I've never been able to pull off Uair to rest, how exactly does it work?

Well what I did when the samus was in the air and I did a uair. He was close to me so I did a rest.

 

[ZHMT]

Well what I did when the samus was in the air and I did a uair. He was close to me so I did a rest.

I'm not saying its impossible but Samus is really hard to combo with vertical moves because she's so floaty. Its very likely he wasn't expecting it and didn't air dodge or tried to late and rest hit because it was a late input. Its very unlikely Samus was still in hitstun when hit with rest. With stale moves and DI I suppose anything is possible though.

 

[tebby]

jigglypuff is crazy good

 

[Coonce]

Me and Vex lost a lot of communication and choked during that Losers Finals Set. Jiggs/Mac will always be our team combo, I just gotta learn when its not worth it to save him, I died too many times because of that.

It's a tough decision with only two stocks. You really don't want to give up any. But either way, some of those saves were pretty hype.

 

[Kojii]

I just found out that rollout loses it's hitbox when you turn, was this a thing in earlier games?

 

[ZeroJanitor]

Yeah Rollout has no hitbox while turning since Melee

 

[vitaro]

This happened to me in a for glory match O.O i was fighting a pit and was over 100%, i missed my rest and he took advantage by doing a charged f smash, though during his second sword swing i rested again(accident) and hit his sword with it, killing him and winning. Maybe this info can be put to good use ^_^

 

[Jiggly]

This happened to me in a for glory match O.O i was fighting a pit and was over 100%, i missed my rest and he took advantage by doing a charged f smash, though during his second sword swing i rested again(accident) and hit his sword with it, killing him and winning. Maybe this info can be put to good use ^_^

Puts sword/bow has a hurt box? :o

 

[shboke]

When i looked at the replay thats what i saw O.O(im vitaro, remembered my old name)
I wish there was a way to upload the videos to a computer lol

 

[Jiggly]

Can someone post a video of ffUair to rest? Still having issues and it would be easier to practice with a visual

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Anybody have any tips on how to take on Luigi? It's an awkward matchup given both characters are really floaty, and I swear that N-Air is the stuff of the devil against Puff.