Meta Jigglypuff Competitive and Metagame Discussion

Kojii

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It turns out you can gain a guaranteed dair by footstooling some characters and dair can lead into another footstool, but since you've already footstooled them once you'll bounce shorter. The shorter bounce makes it possible to follow up the footstool with a jab lock.

You can do cool stuff like this:

This should be looked more into, for example instead of doing jab -> grab, you can do jab -> footstool + dair and combo into whatever.
 

Jiggly

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The Jigglypuff Discord did a community MU chart, and had some interesting results. Here is the imgur album with all the results before removing outliers and horrible ballots altogether: http://imgur.com/a/nv1rH

After removing the people with a majority votes being outliers, and then other outliers, we got this as our community MU chart:


Just thought I should ask your thoughts, agreements, disagreement,observations etc. :)
 

FunAtParties

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The Jigglypuff Discord did a community MU chart, and had some interesting results. Here is the imgur album with all the results before removing outliers and horrible ballots altogether: http://imgur.com/a/nv1rH

After removing the people with a majority votes being outliers, and then other outliers, we got this as our community MU chart:


Just thought I should ask your thoughts, agreements, disagreement,observations etc. :)
Trying to learn more about the competitive scene, including matchups and everything so I have a few questions with these.

-I know very little about Miis, so why is Brawler a positive for us? I know Dapuffster marked it that way too, so I believe it, but I have no idea why based on the limited knowledge I have on the character.

-What's so bad about Meta Knight? I've never played a really good one, but Meta Knight is one of my favorite matchups to play.

- I can still use more tips on how to beat Bayonetta. Even with the nerf she still seems impossible to me.

- I always saw Villager as our worst matchup. His aerials beats ours, can't gimp him, can camp us out, etc... So what's keeping him from that 60-40 group?

-Ryu doesn't seem all that bad either. Crouch seems useful in this matchup. We probably do better in this matchup than a lot of other characters tbh.
 
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Browny

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I went jiggs at Evo, except vs a Ryu coz lol that matchup. Got to winners finals of my pool but lost that and losers finals which I think made me the highest placing jiggs alongside Hungrybox who got the same place as me. I think some of my matches may have been recorded too, won't know for a little while though.

People were like 'Is someone seriously playing Puff?' and it made me sad.
 
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Kojii

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Hay guise

I went jiggs at Evo, except vs a Ryu coz lol that matchup. Got to winners finals of my pool but lost that and losers finals which I think made me the highest placing jiggs alongside Hungrybox who got the same place as me. I think some of my matches may have been recorded too, won't know for a little while though.

People were like 'Is someone seriously playing Puff?' and it made me sad.
Great work!
Actually Bassmage made it to losers R3 in round 2 Pools with Jiggs and Rosa!
 

FunAtParties

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Ryu is unwinnable. (if the ryu is good and knows the mu)
Why though? We can crouch under practically everything he has. He has crazy kill power and a great recovery, but he's easy to combo and he can't force us to approach. I don't see why everyone hates the mu so badly.
 

Whispy

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Why though? We can crouch under practically everything he has. He has crazy kill power and a great recovery, but he's easy to combo and he can't force us to approach. I don't see why everyone hates the mu so badly.
Crouching under half of his moves doesnt matter because the other half hit you. Down tilt, strong down tilt. fair, nair, down smash, maybe even back air.

Easy to combo?? how do you even begin the combo against a good ryu? jiggs needs to be in the air, but ryu controls the air so well. Ryu only struggles when he is above somebody with a multi hit (which jigglypuff doesnt have). Literally all ryu has to do to keep jiggs away is fair and strong up tilt jiggly puff.

Both characters have nothing that can "force" the other to approach. so that's irrelevant.

(All of this is gathered from my matches of playing Trela's Ryu and other ryu mains here in my region with jigglypuff)
 
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FunAtParties

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Crouching under half of his moves doesnt matter because the other half hit you. Down tilt, strong down tilt. fair, nair, down smash, maybe even back air.

Easy to combo?? how do you even begin the combo against a good ryu? jiggs needs to be in the air, but ryu controls the air so well. Ryu only struggles when he is above somebody with a multi hit (which jigglypuff doesnt have). Literally all ryu has to do to keep jiggs away is fair and strong up tilt jiggly puff.

Both characters have nothing that can "force" the other to approach. so that's irrelevant.

(All of this is gathered from my matches of playing Trela's Ryu and other ryu mains here in my region with jigglypuff)
I mean no offense, but Trela is a top player so comparing characters based on his performance with Ryu is irrelevant, don't know about the other ones though. Either way I appreciate the response, you're obviously more experienced than me, but I kinda wanna discuss this so bear with me here. Apologies in advanced for not really knowing for sure about some of this stuff (like the fair thing in the 3rd paragraph).

One thing I want to know is what you mean by Jigglypuff has to be in the air to combo? Like, to start the combo or what, because uptilt seems to work fine for me. I need to read up more on the matchup, but I assume the same followups apply here right?

I also want to know about fair, in my scrub experience his fair does seem ridiculously disjointed, but it hasn't stopped it from trading with Puff's when I played against him. Is that do to poor spacing on the Ryu's part, bad timing, or does it actually trade? Do we not know?

I'm also under the impression that Pound beats Tatsumaki Senpukyaku. This can help us edge guard him deep right? Something many characters can't really do. Him getting back the ledge even when knocked to the blastzone seems almost free against most of the cast, but I feel with 6 jumps, nair/fair/dair, and pound we have better tools to handle him there than we think.

Crouching under half his attacks absolutely helps us. The fact we can avoid uptilt, grab, shoryuken, hadouken, tatsumaki senpukyaku, focus attack(?) etc... all by crouching has to be good for something. It takes away half his kit ffs. Being patient and forcing him to approach with the majority of those attacks listed (some of which seem totally unsafe on shield) seems like a good strategy to me. Sure dtilt ****s us, but I'm pretty sure we can just shield > jump, roll, grab (?) to punish it. So if we play patient what can he do?

I'm not saying we don't lose the matchup, as much as he seems to not be able to do we seem to have less somehow, but I feel like 60-40 is giving him too much credit.
 
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Whispy

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I mean no offense, but Trela is a top player so comparing characters based on his performance with Ryu is irrelevant, don't know about the other ones though. Either way I appreciate the response, you're obviously more experienced than me, but I kinda wanna discuss this so bear with me here. Apologies in advanced for not really knowing for sure about some of this stuff (like the fair thing in the 3rd paragraph).

One thing I want to know is what you mean by Jigglypuff has to be in the air to combo? Like, to start the combo or what, because uptilt seems to work fine for me. I need to read up more on the matchup, but I assume the same followups apply here right?

I also want to know about fair, in my scrub experience his fair does seem ridiculously disjointed, but it hasn't stopped it from trading with Puff's when I played against him. Is that do to poor spacing on the Ryu's part, bad timing, or does it actually trade? Do we not know?

I'm also under the impression that Pound beats Tatsumaki Senpukyaku. This can help us edge guard him deep right? Something many characters can't really do. Him getting back the ledge even when knocked to the blastzone seems almost free against most of the cast, but I feel with 6 jumps, nair/fair/dair, and pound we have better tools to handle him there than we think.

Crouching under half his attacks absolutely helps us. The fact we can avoid uptilt, grab, shoryuken, hadouken, tatsumaki senpukyaku, focus attack(?) etc... all by crouching has to be good for something. It takes away half his kit ffs. Being patient and forcing him to approach with the majority of those attacks listed (some of which seem totally unsafe on shield) seems like a good strategy to me. Sure dtilt ****s us, but I'm pretty sure we can just shield > jump, roll, grab (?) to punish it. So if we play patient what can he do?

I'm not saying we don't lose the matchup, as much as he seems to not be able to do we seem to have less somehow, but I feel like 60-40 is giving him too much credit.

I wouldn't say its irrelevant just because hes a top player. if ANYTHING, top players show you how or why a MU sucks or may suck.

Uptilt only works at low percents. and its not really wise to use uptilts in neutral imo.

Pound is jigglypuff's best move so i wouldnt be surprised if it did beat tasumaki. i havent tried it myself. but if it does beat it, pound sends them upwards, so id figure that they would be able to recover better.

Ryu has moves that can destroy our shield in case you want to start shielding against him. and all i am saying is that Ryu doesnt care if we crouch, he can space nair into dtilt (which is really safe) or space fair. Playing patient will only benefit us if we have the percent lead. otherwise they can just stand on the otherside and play "patient" as well.
 
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FunAtParties

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I wouldn't say its irrelevant just because hes a top player. if ANYTHING, top players show you how or why a MU sucks or may suck.

Uptilt only works at low percents. and its not really wise to use uptilts in neutral imo.

Pound is jigglypuff's best move so i wouldnt be surprised if it did beat tasumaki. i havent tried it myself. but if it does beat it, pound sends them upwards, so id figure that they would be able to recover better.

Ryu has moves that can destroy our shield in case you want to start shielding against him. and all i am saying is that Ryu doesnt care if we crouch, he can space nair into dtilt (which is really safe) or space fair. Playing patient will only benefit us if we have the percent lead. otherwise they can just stand on the otherside and play "patient" as well.
I've been playing against a lot of Ryu lately, and it looks like we don't have any combos on him. Like the dair to rest, uair to rest stuff he can just jump out of right away. So based on that I take back the combo bait stuff, as it doesn't seem to be true.
 

origamiscienceguy

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I posted this in the Q&A, but in hindsight, it was probably better to post it in here.

I was playing with friends, and I noticed that Sing put Ganondorf to sleep during warlock punch (which has super armor) I do not have a WiiU, so somebody who is capable of testing this, I would like to know if this is a real property of sing, or was it some jank experience.
 
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