Meta Jigglypuff Competitive and Metagame Discussion

[Jiggly]

Yes, I mentoned in the video! It's also done, where should I put the link?

you could put it in the Videos and replays thread, pinned to the puff forum

 

[Flippant]

Here is fine, someone already put it under Preformances

 

[TSM ZeRo]

Here is fine, someone already put it under Preformances

Great! So here it is:

Thanks for the help guys, included a lot of things I read from here.

 

[Codaption]

Looks nice! I was admittedly somewhat disappointed by the lack of better explanation of her more important tech, a
Though I suppose that's natural for a person who spends a large portion of their time in the puff boards. (for example, the Dair to rest is very well known here, and is usually executed with a retreating Dair; It was also slightly disappointing when you mentioned Uair being useless, as it's actually one of her better rest setups, and is guaranteed at kill pe recents long as you read the DI correctly.) However, you did manage to capture a lot of important stuff about puff, and in fact I learned a little bit myself!

One thing that's really important to mention is the rest kill percentage linked in the video. Those are....inaccurate. It doesn't really get around outside the puff boards, but the testing done in that rest kill video was very poorly executed. A few of us are working on a more exact formula to determine when rest will kill based not only on matchup but on various rage values. It's....not quite done, but it's coming along.

Thanks for visiting us, ZeRo! Oh, and for the compliment to Jiggs at the end of the video....she IS very fun to play this time around, isn't she.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

Looks nice! I was admittedly somewhat disappointed by the lack of better explanation of her more important tech, a
Though I suppose that's natural for a person who spends a large portion of their time in the puff boards. (for example, the Dair to rest is very well known here, and is usually executed with a retreating Dair; It was also slightly disappointing when you mentioned Uair being useless, as it's actually one of her better rest setups, and is guaranteed at kill pe recents long as you read the DI correctly.) However, you did manage to capture a lot of important stuff about puff, and in fact I learned a little bit myself!

One thing that's really important to mention is the rest kill percentage linked in the video. Those are....inaccurate. It doesn't really get around outside the puff boards, but the testing done in that rest kill video was very poorly executed. A few of us are working on a more exact formula to determine when rest will kill based not only on matchup but on various rage values. It's....not quite done, but it's coming along.

Thanks for visiting us, ZeRo! Oh, and for the compliment to Jiggs at the end of the video....she IS very fun to play this time around, isn't she.

Yeah! I couldn't get everything, but tried to focus on the FUNDAMENTALS to play the character, I can't get all tech down.

Also, someone JUST told me the rest % were wrong, I was tweeted that thing many times

 

[Codaption]

Yeah! I couldn't get everything, but tried to focus on the FUNDAMENTALS to play the character, I can't get all tech down.

Also, someone JUST told me the rest % were wrong, I was tweeted that thing many times

Don't worry too much about it, we all make mistakes.

Of course, Gr4pefru1t from the Sleep Number project should have sent you one of those many messages via e-mail, so if you didn't see it yet it'd be nice if you checked that one in particular; it has a bit more on the project that we'd like to get out to the general public. It's based mostly on Rest kill perecnts, but if the formula was figured out it could be used for potentially ALL vertical kill moves, and even horizontal ones as well once we figure out a good way to reliably factor in VI.....something that precise could have a potentially very big impact on the meta, albeit in the far future, hence why we want it to get out a bit more now.

 

[Jiggly]

Serynder isn't in the bracket. Is he not at Xanadu? Or is he under a different Alias? I wanted to see that "OP puff tech".

 

[Jiggly]

Serynder was DQd round 1 for being late, and lost his first losers match.

Not so OP?

 

[GeeHaus]

Considering we have yet to see anything at all, I think it's a little early to make conclusions, no?
Yeah, I'm skeptical too, but dismissing things before they've been revealed just doesn't make sense.

 

[Vinylic.]

Here's the reason: https://twitter.com/SeryPuff/status/598290244824367104

New Tech: Derp Canceling

 

[PowerPuffPlayer]

It is funny how when I went to a Smash Bros. 4 tournament and chose Jigglypuff, the other players laughed. Lets just say I kicked their butts so badly to where that the lady hosting the tournament was even impressed. The look on their face when i won was satisfying.

 

[CHOVI]

It is funny how when I went to a Smash Bros. 4 tournament and chose Jigglypuff, the other players laughed. Lets just say I kicked their butts so badly to where that the lady hosting the tournament was even impressed. The look on their face when i won was satisfying.

Why would anyone still believe Puff sucks?

 

[PowerPuffPlayer]

Why would anyone still believe Puff sucks?

To those guys, Jigglypuff was a terrible character. Even the lady hosting said Jigglypuff was awful. Lets say I proved them wrong that day.

 

[CHOVI]

To those guys, Jigglypuff was a terrible character. Even the lady hosting said Jigglypuff was awful. Lets say I proved them wrong that day.

That's great :3

 

[Codaption]

Jigglypuff is kind of the butt monkey of Smash in the eyes of newer players, although Greninja has kind of taken her place this time around. Neither of them deserve it, really. (in fact, I've slowly been convinced Greninja is still pretty darn good based on my time at their matchup thread.)

 

[CHOVI]

Jigglypuff is kind of the butt monkey of Smash in the eyes of newer players, although Greninja has kind of taken her place this time around. Neither of them deserve it, really. (in fact, I've slowly been convinced Greninja is still pretty darn good based on my time at their matchup thread.)

o.O I've never heard anyone say Greninja is bad...

 

[Codaption]

o.O I've never heard anyone say Greninja is bad...

Pretty much everyone at the Jiggs skype group put him below us, and all three of my other mains, when I brought it up. Midtier isn't really bad by any stretch, but it's still less than favorable, and even with all the patches and consistent nerfs Gren still holds strong. Though, there's an air of paranoia around the boards now when discussing certain techniques of his...

 

[FullMoon]

Pretty much everyone at the Jiggs skype group put him below us, and all three of my other mains, when I brought it up. Midtier isn't really bad by any stretch, but it's still less than favorable, and even with all the patches and consistent nerfs Gren still holds strong. Though, there's an air of paranoia around the boards now when discussing certain techniques of his...

Fun fact: Sheik gets nerfed more than Greninja does (both of the balance patches nerfed her while Greninja was only nerfed in the first).

But you know, memes. Who cares if they don't make any sense.

Also I can't agree with Jigglypuff being better than Greninja in this game but I'd rather not start a pointless argument here.

 

[Jiggly]

Also I can't agree with Jigglypuff being better than Greninja in this game but I'd rather not start a pointless argument here.

*rings fighting bell*

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT


puff > greninja

 

[GeeHaus]

There will be no bias from either side. Nooooope. None whatsoever.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Wish she still didn't have all her flaws from previous games.......MAN are they all significant

 

[Codaption]

Wish she still didn't have all her flaws from previous games.......MAN are they all significant

Part of the fun of playing Jigglypuff is that at a glance she seems like a majorly flawed, useless character. Which is why newer players think she's a majorly flawed, useless character.

In reality, she has a lot of really good stuff that balances it all out. Really, all we need is a better answer to shields than what we have now, plus maybe some better range on a few moves here and there.

 

[CHOVI]

Part of the fun of playing Jigglypuff is that at a glance she seems like a majorly flawed, useless character. Which is why newer players think she's a majorly flawed, useless character.

In reality, she has a lot of really good stuff that balances it all out. Really, all we need is a better answer to shields than what we have now, plus maybe some better range on a few moves here and there.

Yeah, a little more shield damage for pound would be great.

 

[Codaption]

Yeah, a little more shield damage for pound would be great.

More like something useful from grabs, or SOMETHING. Pound is okay, but we can't really rely solely on breaking shields with that to keep our opponents from shielding often. Our grabs aren't threatening enough for that, and nothing else we have goes through shields (except raging rollout, but we can't really rely on that either).

 

[Jiggly]

My two major buffs I want that would be amazing is jab being a jab reset, and d throw get lowered knockback for actual followups.


btw, I got an up throw to rest tech chase the other day, thought it was funny.

 

[Gr4pefru1t]

My two major buffs I want that would be amazing is jab being a jab reset, and d throw get lowered knockback for actual followups.


btw, I got an up throw to rest tech chase the other day, thought it was funny.

I'm unsure, but wouldn't the ending lag on Puff (when performing D-Throw) need to be reduced too?

 

[Jiggly]

I'm unsure, but wouldn't the ending lag on Puff (when performing D-Throw) need to be reduced too?

It wouldn't hurt, but I don't think it's needed. Hitstun on throws is pretty long already.

 

[Soft Serve]

Weak hit nair jab reseting would be the goat.

 

[Flippant]

Reverse hit of fair, the one that does 6% jab resets until around 40%. Your welcome.

 

[Jiggly]

Reverse hit of fair, the one that does 6% jab resets until around 40%. Your welcome.

(this wasn't already known? It works for sourspot fair too, but idk if it works at the same percents)

 

[Soft Serve]

Wtf guys, I asked like 2 pages ago if any of our aerials jab reset lol.

 

[Flippant]

(this wasn't already known? It works for sourspot fair too, but idk if it works at the same percents)

I've never heard anyone say anything about reverse hit fair, and I haven't seen a single vid of sour spot fair jab resetting so idk if its an actual thing

 

[DarkKry4]

It is funny how when I went to a Smash Bros. 4 tournament and chose Jigglypuff, the other players laughed. Lets just say I kicked their butts so badly to where that the lady hosting the tournament was even impressed. The look on their face when i won was satisfying.

ugh. Glad you kicked their butts!

With kids these days, they're all about characters who do fancy sh*t like shooting guns, elemental powers and waving around swords.

Jiggs has none of that. They also assume shes weak because of her cute non-threatening feminine image. None of them can really look past her "non-flashy" specials/basics to see that she has a powerful air game and that rest is powerful!

after soooo many years, It still saddens me to see guys tease other guys for choosing Jigglypuff. Now they know PINK IS DEADLY

 

[Codaption]

It's honestly pretty funny how tame Jigglypuff's specials look just at a glance. Another contribution to our poor public image as far as newcomers are concerned.

Honestly, this generation of smash might change perceptions a bit, partially because of that period of time when people thought Jigglypuff was amazing, and partially because we have those hint messages that actually tell people what Rest does.

 

[Ishimaru]

ugh. Glad you kicked their butts!

With kids these days, they're all about characters who do fancy sh*t like shooting guns, elemental powers and waving around swords.

Jiggs has none of that. They also assume shes weak because of her cute non-threatening feminine image. None of them can really look past her "non-flashy" specials/basics to see that she has a powerful air game and that rest is powerful!

after soooo many years, It still saddens me to see guys tease other guys for choosing Jigglypuff. Now they know PINK IS DEADLY

Honestly, a big part of maining Jiggs for me is that feeling right there. Where they completely underestimate her and then get wrecked. It's so satisfying.
Even when the matchup ends up being an uphill battle, there's something really cool about just bringing it down to a spacing game. I love weaving just outside of the opponents range and punishing hard with aerials.

 

[DarkKry4]

It's honestly pretty funny how tame Jigglypuff's specials look just at a glance. Another contribution to our poor public image as far as newcomers are concerned.

Honestly, this generation of smash might change perceptions a bit, partially because of that period of time when people thought Jigglypuff was amazing, and partially because we have those hint messages that actually tell people what Rest does.

Shes the least noob friendly character imo. Her specials are not very spammable and look "plain" (her side B is just a unremarkable 1 sec pound while other characters get boomerangs/missiles/flying rockets/etc). Plus she lacks range.

Shes like Poppy from League of Legends. Once you learn how to play around her weaknesses, she becomes OP.

Thank god her Amiibo was very popular. Sold out faster than Greninja i think. This might be enough to keep her in future games (i pretty much always worry about her being cut)

 

[Gr4pefru1t]

(i pretty much always worry about her being cut)

They don't cut characters that were in the 64, or at least they havent. I think it would be unlikely.

 

[GeeHaus]

As of recently, Jigglypuff has had newfound significance because she's one of the new Fairy type Pokemon introduced in X/Y.

I'm actually pretty shocked that this didn't come into play in any of her customs, though. Imagine: Stationary Rollout that launches Star Bits conally ahead, called Dazzling Gleam. Yes please!

 

[PowerPuffPlayer]

They don't cut characters that were in the 64, or at least they havent. I think it would be unlikely.

They were going to cut Ness for Lucas in melee but the time constraints made the idea fell through.

 

[Codaption]

They were going to cut Ness for Lucas in melee but the time constraints made the idea fell through.

There is that, yes....but he still would've played exactly how ness did in ssb64. Since then, they havent considered something like that, or at least nothing indicates that they have.