Meta Jigglypuff Competitive and Metagame Discussion

[Jiggly]

Roll out over Pound?

1. Sing
2. Rollout
3. Pound
4. Rest

I wouldn't even bother on Pound and Rest.

 

[Gr4pefru1t]

If the person you're versing isn't an idiot, Rollout is free punish. Which you don't want to just be handing out like free samples in Costco

 

[Kojii]

Rollout is a legit move imo, works well for surprises and tech chases.

 

[Gr4pefru1t]

If you're not versing an idiot, Rollout is the most punishable thing in the world. Try not to give out punish like a free sample in Costco

EDIT: Whoops, this wasn't supposed to be posted twice....

 

[Codaption]

Pound is definitely much better than Rollout. Rollout is just.....eh. Even in Melee and Brawl, it wasn't much to look at, but at least it was a reliable kill move there.

That being said, looking at your list makes it clear it was a joke post. :/

 

[GeeHaus]

Wait, Jigglypuff has four special moves?

 

[Flippant]

Jigglypuff actually has a 5th special move called "Rule 34". It's actually quite scaring.

 

[Codaption]

Wait, Jigglypuff has four special moves?

I see what ya did there. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡ °)

 

[TSM ZeRo]

Hey Jigglypuff boards! I'll be doing a guide covering this lovely character for monday. I'm currently looking up all the info in this board for extra info that I may not be aware of. Is there anything I should be aware? Stuff you guys discovered not too long ago that I should cover and the like?

Thanks!

 

[Phan7om]

Hey Jigglypuff boards! I'll be doing a guide covering this lovely character for monday. I'm currently looking up all the info in this board for extra info that I may not be aware of. Is there anything I should be aware? Stuff you guys discovered not too long ago that I should cover and the like?

Thanks!

Reverse weak SHFF Fair into rest Kappa

 

[Jiggly]

Hey Jigglypuff boards! I'll be doing a guide covering this lovely character for monday. I'm currently looking up all the info in this board for extra info that I may not be aware of. Is there anything I should be aware? Stuff you guys discovered not too long ago that I should cover and the like?

Thanks!

Have you seen the rising Dair>rest combo? Also, jab-rest is a combo on several characters. I would look in the rest strategies thread for some cool stuff.

 

[drakeirving]

Hey ZeRo. If you haven't seen stuff like rising dair to Rest, definitely check that out, even though that's been known for a bit. Also, I think looking at the advantages of dash attack would be a good subject, since it's pretty darn good (frame 5, kills on first hit, clanks, can get second hit through clank) but it's relatively understated as an option because people take advantage of the punishable endlag when it's used recklessly. Might want to look into Pound Blitz to Rest too? It isn't amazing, but it's an option.

 

[Jiggly]

Hey ZeRo. If you haven't seen stuff like rising dair to Rest, definitely check that out, even though that's been known for a bit. Also, I think looking at the advantages of dash attack would be a good subject, since it's pretty darn good (frame 5, kills on first hit, clanks, can get second hit through clank) but it's relatively understated as an option because people take advantage of the punishable endlag when it's used recklessly. Might want to look into Pound Blitz to Rest too? It isn't amazing, but it's an option.

Dash Attack is fantastic, beating out things like fully charged bowser Fsmash.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

Yes, I got down air into rest.

Have you seen the rising Dair>rest combo? Also, jab-rest is a combo on several characters. I would look in the rest strategies thread for some cool stuff.

JAB REST? LINK ME THIS MAGIC.

 

[Vinylic.]

YO I MADE JAB TO REST BTW, YOU CAN THANK ME LATER.

DON'T STEAL MY LIGHT JIGGLY.


This is confirmed to work with donkey kong. You jab once and rest immediately.

For the rest of the crew. Jab once, Immediately jump forward and rest. This caused me to win a set and KO'd megaman below kill percentage thanks to rage. Also, serynder is saying crap about jigglypuff doing something that's broken enough to be banned. Dapuffster and I don't really see anything that can do such a thing.

Also, footstool to rest is a thing.
aaaand resting through flare blitz, meta knight's tornado, and falcon punches are also a thing to look into.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

YO I MADE JAB TO REST BTW, YOU CAN THANK ME LATER.

DON'T STEAL MY LIGHT JIGGLY.


This is confirmed to work with donkey kong. You jab once and rest immediately.

For the rest of the crew. Jab once, Immediately jump forward and rest. This caused me to win a set and KO'd megaman below kill percentage thanks to rage. Also, serynder is saying crap about jigglypuff doing something that's broken enough to be banned. Dapuffster and I don't really see anything that can do such a thing.

Also, footstool to rest is a thing.
aaaand resting through flare blitz, meta knight's tornado, and falcon punches are also a thing to look into.

GOT IT

 

[Jiggly]

Yes, I got down air into rest.

JAB REST? LINK ME THIS MAGIC.

No one here has any videos, but we have a thread on it. It only works on some of the cast, but it's won me a lot of matches. Try vs donkey kong in training. If you are right next to him, jab and then buffer a rest right after it. The jab sends him into hitstun, but doesn't send him far enough to be outside the rest hitbox. It's a great option when the opponent uses an unsafe move on shield. Check out the jab to rest thread for characters and percents


Btw @ Vinylic. I came up with jab SH rest, so dont get too proud of yourself


Also, if you can catch the opponent in the air in the first frames of the top of your jab, it causes the opponent to get sent forward slightly, and can get comboed into SHrest, ftilit, dtilt, fair, or dair. Dair then can be linked into rest, so if they aren't quite at rest kill percent, you can get an extra 12% that way. The funny thing is if you do it correctly, it doesn't combo with jab

Edit: you should talk about rest invincibility frames, you can use them to rest bowser and yoshi bombs, as well as the things vinyl mentioned

 

[Vinylic.]

@ Jiggly I'm still the founder, you're just one of the extenders. You know which one dominates. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

and he's right as well. I noticed in one of Hbox's matches on sandstorm where he was making constant strings/juggles above his opponent with uair. Keeping it that way, his two options, attacking or dodging can both lead to punishes. That can rack up a lot of damage, so I think I may have found an advantage for some characters I'd play against.

 

[Soft Serve]

Also there was talk about some footstool/dair option select that leads to rest? Don't know the specifics because I don't lab for this character.


Also Zero when I see you at evo I'll have an az flag for you, we still love you here

 

[Gr4pefru1t]

Don't forget about the formula! We're still working on it. Personal lives are taking priority right now, though.

 

[Codaption]

I've kinda been waiting for somebody to tell me to do do something with the formula myself, since I can't do much in the way of testing and such.

Also, heya ZeRo! Quick note, another thing worth going into for Jiggs is her grab game. It's not a whole lot to look at, as none of her throws kill reliably or set up for anything other than positional advantage (it's worth noting that Uthrow can kill, but only under ideal circumstances- you need high percentage on both players, lowish ceiling, and a platform). However, they are wonderful for damage. Each throw does between 10-11%, and her pummel does 3%. Her grab also has decent range and comes out on frame 6. This and Dash attack are pretty much most of her ground game, so it's worth mentioning.

Some other stuff:
-Utilt can set up for rest, although it's not a kill setup without a platform or low ceiling. Didn't see anyone mention that, so I thought I would.
-A very nice rest setup (and my personal favorite) is SHFF'd Uair to Rest. Kills most characters between 35-45%.
-Bair kills reliably just a few % after Fsmash. Also it can be used offstage. Woo.
-If you're mentioning customs, Pound Blitz is probably the best rest setup in her arsenal. Lower knockback and endlag means it's amazing. Leaping rest is weird and I'm not sold on its viability versus vanilla rest, but it's definitely a lot easier to set up for. I've heard rumors that Uthrow to Leaping Rest is guaranteed.... Pretty much all of her others are worthless aside from maybe Raging Rollout, so feel free to go into detail about these two.

I've HEARD that ftilt can jab reset, but I'm not sure. Don't bring that up unless somebody confirms it for me. (Hint hint) chances are that it's a no, though, I'm sure jab reset to rest would have been mentioned by now.

 

[Jiggly]

I've kinda been waiting for somebody to tell me to do do something with the formula myself, since I can't do much in the way of testing and such.

Also, heya ZeRo! Quick note, another thing worth going into for Jiggs is her grab game. It's not a whole lot to look at, as none of her throws kill reliably or set up for anything other than positional advantage (it's worth noting that Uthrow can kill, but only under ideal circumstances- you need high percentage on both players, lowish ceiling, and a platform). However, they are wonderful for damage. Each throw does between 10-11%, and her pummel does 3%. Her grab also has decent range and comes out on frame 6. This and Dash attack are pretty much most of her ground game, so it's worth mentioning.

Some other stuff:
-Utilt can set up for rest, although it's not a kill setup without a platform or low ceiling. Didn't see anyone mention that, so I thought I would.
-Bair kills reliably just a few % after Fsmash. Also it can be used offstage. Woo.
-If you're mentioning customs, Pound Blitz is probably the best rest setup in her arsenal. Lower knockback and endlag means it's amazing. Leaping rest is weird and I'm not sold on its viability versus vanilla rest, but it's definitely a lot easier to set up for. I've heard rumors that Uthrow to Leaping Rest is guaranteed.... Pretty much all of her others are worthless aside from maybe Raging Rollout, so feel free to go into detail about these two.

I've HEARD that ftilt can jab reset, but I'm not sure. Don't bring that up unless somebody confirms it for me. (Hint hint) chances are that it's a no, though, I'm sure jab reset to rest would have been mentioned by now.

F tilt jab resets under 20% with no rage.

 

[Codaption]

F tilt jab resets under 20% with no rage.

Under 20%?

......Huh. That's a shame, but I guess it's somethingggg....?

Honestly, all we'd need is a reliable jab reset and we'd shoot up the tiers like a deflating balloon. Perhaps some changes to ftilt coupled with lowered endlag on Dsmash.

 

[Gr4pefru1t]

I've kinda been waiting for somebody to tell me to do do something with the formula myself, since I can't do much in the way of testing and such.

Yeah.... Sorry about that. End of the year, lots of work... You know how it is.

 

[Flippant]

@ TSM ZeRo
I made a post a while back about Puffs Up-tilt. It true combos into a lot of things and it worth looking into. Also mah boi Seryender says he found something crazy dumb about Puff. He says it's better than Luigi down throw -> down b. He's going to do it at Xanadu this week and make a video about it. Until then he's leaving us in the dark about the Voodoo Puff magic

 

[Jiggly]

Btw, what's the formula you guys are talking about? Did I miss something?

 

[Flippant]

Gr4pefru1t is making an equation to find when rest will kill, imo a waste of time, but apparently he's lined up an article with Kotaku.

 

[Gr4pefru1t]

Gr4pefru1t is making an equation to find when rest will kill, imo a waste of time, but apparently he's lined up an article with Kotaku.

Yeah, I emailed Yannick LeJacq after contacting him on twitter. He sounded interested on twitter, but I've yet to get an email back...

 

[Gr4pefru1t]

Btw, what's the formula you guys are talking about? Did I miss something?

To be more specific: the Formula will be able to calculate each individual character's minimum percent required to be KO'd by Rest (only taking into consideration max DI. If they dont DI, it'd kill anyway). Once we finish the formula, we'll release the formula along with a chart of everyone's KO percent. The way it'd work is that you would plug in a characters stats (ex. Gravity, fall speed, weight, etc.) And if done correctly, it would come out to be the KO percent on BATTLEFIELD. The reason why it would be battlefield is because since every stage ceiling is at different heights, and don't even get me STARTED on platforms, every stage would have a different formula. So, here's what I'm hoping for: someone out there needs to make a unit of length to measure the distance between every stage and their respective ceilings. This unit needs to be exact. But until then, Battlefield is all we're working with.

 

[Jiggly]

Oh, you guys are still on that? Wasn't aware it was reffered to as the formula xD

 

[TSM ZeRo]

@ TSM ZeRo
I made a post a while back about Puffs Up-tilt. It true combos into a lot of things and it worth looking into. Also mah boi Seryender says he found something crazy dumb about Puff. He says it's better than Luigi down throw -> down b. He's going to do it at Xanadu this week and make a video about it. Until then he's leaving us in the dark about the Voodoo Puff magic

Could you link me such post? Finalizing the guide today.

 

[Vinylic.]

@ TSM ZeRo

http://smashboards.com/threads/jigg...agame-discussion.368572/page-17#post-19119516

 

[Jiggly]

@ Soft Serve Unfortunately no, for a while I thought sour spot fair could, but labbed for a good hour and couldn't get it to work

I got this to happen yesterday actually, but it was below 10 percent

 

[Gr4pefru1t]

Oh, you guys are still on that? Wasn't aware it was reffered to as the formula xD

We've actually concluded that it's going to be called the "Sleep Number" Formula.
Eh? Eeeh?

Courtesy of Codaption

 

[Gr4pefru1t]

Could you link me such post? Finalizing the guide today.

If the "Sleep Number" Formula got a shout out, maybe people whose field is actually theoretical mathematics could help us that watched the guide! And maybe someone out there who already discovered a way to measure the size of a stage watches it, and contacts me! Although it may not sound too much of a good idea, I believe some people would be grateful for Rest Kill %'s that are reliable, unlike that video Smash Highlights made....

 

[Codaption]

Gr4pefru1t is making an equation to find when rest will kill, imo a waste of time, but apparently he's lined up an article with Kotaku.

It might not seem like it's very important, but precision is exactly what we need with a move like rest. If we use it too early, we usually end up eating a Fox Usmash or a Falcon Punch for our troubles. Meanwhile, waiting too long to throw it out makes us run the risk of getting ko'd before we can get the hit, robbing us of a stock, some extra kill power via rage, and potentially the match. The Sleep Number Formula allows us to use rest as early as possible without running the risk of a wasted rest. Plus, that smash highlights video was just disappointing.

Yeah.... Sorry about that. End of the year, lots of work... You know how it is.

Don't sweat it! If you can't do it, you can't do it. Advancing the meta is important, but that doesn't mean you should run yourself into the ground. We do bad on the ground. Stay away from it.

@ TSM ZeRo
I made a post a while back about Puffs Up-tilt. It true combos into a lot of things and it worth looking into. Also mah boi Seryender says he found something crazy dumb about Puff. He says it's better than Luigi down throw -> down b. He's going to do it at Xanadu this week and make a video about it. Until then he's leaving us in the dark about the Voodoo Puff magic

if anyone watches him at Xanadu, please tell us about it here. If Seryender doesn't on his own.

Could you link me such post? Finalizing the guide today.

Real fast, a few notes about rollout that I missed. Not the most useful move in our kit, but it's generally used as a tech roll punish. Uncharged, it can be used to quickly grab the ledge (something that was brought up a while back, but ledge trumping was never brought up as an application for it). Useful, since our Bair is super duper strong now. (Although, I have a bit of trouble figuring out trumping for myself....I'd like some help with that if somebody could help me out. I can't seem to get off the ledge before the invincibility frames end, or at least not long before they would have ended.)

 

[CHOVI]

It might not seem like it's very important, but precision is exactly what we need with a move like rest. If we use it too early, we usually end up eating a Fox Usmash or a Falcon Punch for our troubles. Meanwhile, waiting too long to throw it out makes us run the risk of getting ko'd before we can get the hit, robbing us of a stock, some extra kill power via rage, and potentially the match. The Sleep Number Formula allows us to use rest as early as possible without running the risk of a wasted rest. Plus, that smash highlights video was just disappointing.

You simply CAN'T be precise with rest though. In a normal fight, you're not gonna be factoring in rage, ceiling height, staling and other factors.

 

[Flippant]

@ TSM ZeRo Did you end up finding my post??
It's here: http://smashboards.com/threads/jigg...agame-discussion.368572/page-17#post-19119516
Any questions? I got you.

 

[Gr4pefru1t]

You simply CAN'T be precise with rest though. In a normal fight, you're not gonna be factoring in rage, ceiling height, staling and other factors.

Okay. So let's say you have rage. That just means that the minimum KO percent is still guaranteed. We're working on a Rage formula, too. It MIGHT be applicable to other moves as well. We haven't gotten that far yet, though.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

@ TSM ZeRo Did you end up finding my post??
It's here: http://smashboards.com/threads/jigg...agame-discussion.368572/page-17#post-19119516
Any questions? I got you.

Yes, I mentoned in the video! It's also done, where should I put the link?