Meta Jigglypuff Competitive and Metagame Discussion

[Jiggly]

Why does rollout send them straight up sometimes, and not other times? Is there some sort of formula for it?

 

[Soft Serve]

I'm pretty sure it depends on when it hits. IIRC rollout has no hitboxes when in the air (at least in melee/pm it doesnt). I THINK that it depends on if it hits near the begining of the move or right after a turn, or if the opponent is in the air. Its really inconsistent, but if wanted I'll test it later tonight if I'm not labbing in PM Frame advance

 

[Codaption]

Rollout DOES actually have a hitbox in the air now, and in fact I'm fairly certain that's usually when it sends you up. It IS pretty inconsistent, though...

 

[Burruni]

Roll-Out has air hitboxes but normally launches you back and up at around a 30 degree angle from the horizon of the target hit and arguably could be edge guarded by someone jumping off stage into the attack.

 

[drakeirving]

It's rather inarguable. Offstage rollout is easily gimped and kills Jiggs just by throwing yourself into it. It's basically free if you can get to them in time.

 

[Jiggly]

Only true pros use offstage rollout

 

[drakeirving]

one time i thought i would be sneaky and use offstage rollout to recover when i was super high off screen



the dude threw a turnip upward, i hit the turnip during rollout and died

it was nuts

don't use rollout offstage

 

[Codaption]

Yeah it's pretty terrible offstage. I don't even know why Sakurai brings it up as an option.

 

[drakeirving]

Oh by the way, to answer "when does Rollout send you upwards", it is exactly when it's an aerial hit. You have to be in the air, the opponent doesn't. It also seems to do more damage than a grounded one and apparently has slightly more knockback growth, which means it might actually kill earlier in some cases lol

 

[Codaption]

I noticed that once too when I was beating on the sandbag in the waiting room. Makes sense, considering how all of her other specials excluding sing get some benefit from being used in the air (rest can kill earlier due to being closer to the blast zone, pound has less lag before and after the move and gains the ability to be aimed).

 

[Jiggly]

Hungrybox said on his stream that Jigg's Bair speed was slightly buffed. Anyone able to do frame data to check this?

 

[Codaption]

Hungrybox said on his stream that Jigg's Bair speed was slightly buffed. Anyone able to do frame data to check this?

That would be fabulous. Bair is our best kill move behind rest, so it getting any sort of boost is always good news.

 

[Eonn]

Why is Jiggs considered top tier in Melee but mid tier in this game? Apart from a weaker rest and better air dodging, what's the difference? Why is her learning curve so much steeper? Thanks.

 

[Jiggly]

Why is Jiggs considered top tier in Melee but mid tier in this game? Apart from a weaker rest and better air dodging, what's the difference? Why is her learning curve so much steeper? Thanks.

In Melee she was the only character that centralized around air game. He gimps were amazing, she had reliable rest combos, and her aerials comboed into each other more fluently.

 

[Eonn]

In Melee she was the only character that centralized around air game. He gimps were amazing, she had reliable rest combos, and her aerials comboed into each other more fluently.

But in this game, there are characters like Diddy and Sheik who can out space and out prioritize Jiggs? It also seems that aerial approaches are much easier to shield and punish.

Can she still air dash and gimp effectively though? I've used her a bit in FG but I'm pretty awful at Smash, so I just assumed my issues with comboing and gimping were from a lack of experience. Also, trying to land rest with input lag sucks hard.

 

[Soft Serve]

Her unique air movement isn't as special, a lot more characters control air space better than her. She loses to projectile camping and struggled with disjoints in all games. In smash 4, her punish game is weaker so she doesn't net much when she does get in on people.

Smash 4 ledges don't hrlp either, because in many situations you can intercept a recovery once deeper off stage and then get to the ledge before them, and their only option is to go for the ledge. With ledge trumping, all you get from that is %, not a stock. You could try to intercept again near the ledge, but against many characters (think shiek) you'll either be unable to hit it, br unable to cover all recovery paths, or not hit them to thr blastzones and it resets situation. Also if you miss or stay out too long, you'll get caught off stage with little jumps and them on the ledge.

If there was no ledge trumping, I think puff could fight though the projectiles and be an upper mid/lower top tier character. As it stands I think puff is booty lol

 

[ilikcereal101]

I'm be of her customs is a piercing rollout we could just use that 9 times out of 10 the is a better option than rollout and we don't use it for anything else so it could be a mix up recovery and she nice it pierces no edge guarding

 

[Jiggly]

I'm be of her customs is a piercing rollout we could just use that 9 times out of 10 the is a better option than rollout and we don't use it for anything else so it could be a mix up recovery and she nice it pierces no edge guarding

Normal rollout is nice for tech chases, and can also be used if the opponent abuses shield.

 

[ilikcereal101]

I learn something new everyday

 

[Jiggly]

Also, if you can use rollout for recovery, you can still recover without rollout. It just gets you to the stage faster. Losing a tech chase for a faster recovery isn't worth it honestly...

 

[Jiggly]

So I found something cool. When you attack someone from behind, they turn around. Well, this turn around causes their hurt box to be largened. Idk for how long, but most characters jab rest is a combo for longer if jabbed from behind http://smashboards.com/threads/combo-jab-to-rest.389561/

It might be good to attack from behind when wanting a rest combo from fair/pound/Dair???/uair, as it's easier to land rest.

 

[Zelbur]

What frame does Rest come out on?

 

[Jiggly]

What frame does Rest come out on?

Invincibility: frame one
Hitbox: Frame 2

 

[drakeirving]

Rest is invincible on frame 1 and hits on frame 2-4.

ninja

 

[Jiggly]

Rest is invincible on frame 1 and hits on frame 2-4.

ninja

Mwahahahaha

 

[Phampy]

Haven't been on these boards in a while due to my switch to Pacman so forgive me if this has been discussed. I was messing around in For Glory last night and noticed I couldn't do the footstool to dair/rest option select and thought maybe it was just me being out of practice or it being online. Went to training today and sure enough, I couldn't do it there either. I always get dair after the footstool. Has this been patched out? Video in case some aren't sure what I'm talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vurpDMMe7k

Luckily, footstool to rest still works but not being able to input both dair and rest and getting the better outcome is kind of a bummer.

 

[Jiggly]

Haven't been on these boards in a while due to my switch to Pacman so forgive me if this has been discussed. I was messing around in For Glory last night and noticed I couldn't do the footstool to dair/rest option select and thought maybe it was just me being out of practice or it being online. Went to training today and sure enough, I couldn't do it there either. I always get dair after the footstool. Has this been patched out? Video in case some aren't sure what I'm talking about:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vurpDMMe7k

Luckily, footstool to rest still works but not being able to input both dair and rest and getting the better outcome is kind of a bummer.

It still works, was doing it last night. You have to hit a, then b as if it was a glide toss/jump canceled option. It has to be quick.

 

[Phampy]

It still works, was doing it last night. You have to hit a, then b as if it was a glide toss/jump canceled option. It has to be quick.

Maybe I'll go mess around with it some more. I was able to do it pretty consistently pre-patch.

 

[Jiggly]

Maybe I'll go mess around with it some more. I was able to do it pretty consistently pre-patch.

make sure you are doing it on the right characters, it doesn't work on most of them.

Bowser - Aerial
Yoshi - Grounded
Wario - Grounded
Donkey Kong - Aerial
Mr. Game and Watch - Aerial
Charizard - Grounded and Aerial
Ness - Aerial
Olimar - Aerial
Pac-Man - Grounded
Mega Man - Grounded
Sonic - Grounded

 

[Phampy]

make sure you are doing it on the right characters, it doesn't work on most of them.

Bowser - Aerial
Yoshi - Grounded
Wario - Grounded
Donkey Kong - Aerial
Mr. Game and Watch - Aerial
Charizard - Grounded and Aerial
Ness - Aerial
Olimar - Aerial
Pac-Man - Grounded
Mega Man - Grounded
Sonic - Grounded

I already know who it works on. I've said before I've done it plenty of times before the patch. My problem now is that I always get dair after the footstool instead of Rest. I'll go rework my timing for it since you said it still works when I have time.

 

[Jiggly]

I already know who it works on. I've said before I've done it plenty of times before the patch. My problem now is that I always get dair after the footstool instead of Rest. I'll go rework my timing for it since you said it still works when I have time.

try buffering the dair

 

[Flippant]

Can we take a moment to talk about up-tilt? At low %'s it true combos into its self, pound, nair, Up smash, or reverse hit Fair. Reverse hit fair can also lead into a footstool, or bair. On top of that you can true combo into up-tilt but hitting a low hit up air. So the the string Up-air -> Up-tilt -> reverse hit fair -> Footstool/bair is a thing

Edit: doesn't work on Floaties

 

[Soft Serve]

Is there any chance for any of puffs weak hit aerials to jab reset (jab lock? Idk what it's called in brawl/SmUsh).

I'm assuming no though, because if they could footstool> reset rest would be pretty obvious as a thing to expand the punish game to.

 

[Flippant]

@ Soft Serve Unfortunately no, for a while I thought sour spot fair could, but labbed for a good hour and couldn't get it to work

 

[GeeHaus]

So I was fighting a Pac-Man earlier today. His Side-B apparently had priority over a fully charged Rollout, and I died.

This is a disgrace.

 

[CHOVI]

So I was fighting a Pac-Man earlier today. His Side-B apparently had priority over a fully charged Rollout, and I died.

This is a disgrace.

Priority for rollout is just... really bad

 

[Codaption]

Priority for rollout is just... really bad

Rollout for anything other than tech punishes is really bad.

 

[Jiggly]

Rollout is honestly her 2nd best special move

 

[drakeirving]

That says more about how awful her specials are than anything else

 

[Soft Serve]

Roll out over Pound?