Jesiah patented strat vs Metaknight

[JesiahTEG]

Snake setup #1- Shadow Moses

I named this Shadow Moses because Shadow Moses is an impenetrable fortress. The only person that can get inside is Snake. Same applies to Brawl since Snake can just spam back.

The Setup
Put a mine in front of you. Grenade camp till they get close. When they get close, throw out an Up Smash or two...When they approach, if they approach with an aerial Utilt them away..If somehow they get past the Utilt, then the Mortar from the Usmash coming down should hit them. If they approah with an airdodge, just grab them when they land. If they run and shield the Mine, I mortar slide the first time to see what they do...If they run and powershield and keep running, they will get hit by the Mortar slide, and next time I'll know to just Ftilt them after they powershield it. If they run and shield and stay in their shield, I'll do a running shieldgrab next time they detonate the mine with their shield. Either way, I'll mortar slide the first time because it's safe and I'll be able to tell what they are going to do. After that, I'll use prediction and play a mixup game of Mortar Slide, Ftilt, and Grab based on how they get around the mine.

MK's aerial Options and Snake's solutions
MK's options have a dash next to them, and what Snake does to beat those options are listed in bold underneath.

-Jump over and Fair
Usmash, Utilt, Shield
-Jump over and Dair
Usmash, Utilt, Shield
-Jump over and airdodge
Grab, Utilt, Ftilt when they land
-Jump over and Tornado
Usmash then Shield, Grenade when Shielding
-Multiple jump/Dair spam
Usmash, Utilt if I predict it

MK's ground options and Snake's solutions
MK's options have a dash next to them, and what Snake does to beat those options are listed in bold underneath.

Smart players run and powershield the mine. Depending on what they do after you can beat their option.

-Keep running towards you after
Ftilt, Mortar Slide
-Stay in shield after
Running shieldgrab, Mortar Slide
-Stay in shield and spotdodge
Normal spotdodge tactics
-Roll away
Running shieldgrab, Mortar Slide

Spacing yourself from the mine is important. Normally I lay the mine, roll back, then take a step or two forwards. This way if they run, powershield the mine and still run towards you to grab or attack, they will not be able to shield your incoming Ftilt due to the fact that they cannot shield in their initial dash animation. You want to be this length away from the mine so your Usmash don't explode the mine when they fall down.

Versus Metaknight's aerials, smart mixups between Utilt and Usmash should always connect and knock him away. If he runs and shields, Mortar Sliding is really good and it will almost always work unless they 100% predict it and are perfect at stopping it. Other wise mix up Ftilt and Grab depending on what they do after.

Characters this works on:
Bowser
Captain Falcon (you can beat him just by doing this alone)
Donkey Kong
Fox
Game and Watch
Ganondorf
Jigglypuff
Kirby
Lucario
Luigi
Mario(maybe)
Marth
Metaknight
Peach
Sonic
Wario
Yoshi (hard)
Zelda


Some of these characters you have to be creative with. For example, Donkey Kong can use his Down B to blow up the mine from far away. However, while he's doing this you can Nikita him in the face. Be creative! Vs Fox, you can duck under his lasers and Fox has no approaches. Figure out how to make it work.

Shadow Moses Junior!
This is basically just the same thing, but without the mine. Camping with Usmash is REALLY good and makes it really hard for some characters to approach like the Ice Climbers. It's also more useful on small platforms like on Norfair.

 

[brinboy789]

*ignore post please*

 

[JesiahTEG]

?? Snake does good vs DDD. It's a highly overrated matchup.

 

[Azgner]

Yeah, and you're either playing in a never ending stage or a stage with walls, with you want DDD to chaingrab until that. and snake requires perfect timing to chaingrab, as he can pull a grenade out. So, if you mess up in your timing only once, for a fraction of second, he will get out.

 

[-Ran]

He's not talking about the stage.

 

[CO18]

Yeah, and you're either playing in a never ending stage or a stage with walls, with you want DDD to chaingrab until that. and snake requires perfect timing to chaingrab, as he can pull a grenade out. So, if you mess up in your timing only once, for a fraction of second, he will get out.

umm wtf. ...... Read thread he is not playing on shadow moses..

 

[Azgner]

hmm, but i already know that. brinboy789 does not. Notice as he mentions: chaingrab over 150%?

 

[brinboy789]

oh >.< i thought he meant shadow moses island...cause ddd chaingrab = phail tehre. wifi good times :D so yea...

 

[bman in 2288]

This worries me. It looks like a really bad case of camping. Get good at this, and it becomes stalling.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Not at all, Bman. This would never be considered stalling or ever even thought about being banned. Plus, if ledge stalling is allowed then this is surely.

 

[bman in 2288]

Meh, I guess you're right... to an extent.

Also, don't capitalize the "b".

 

[abit_rusty]

I'll be the first to say I'm puzzled. How is this different from just nade camping with mortar+mine and reacting to their approach, enough to warrant a "patented" named strategy?

 

[bman in 2288]

...It has 4 paragraphs worth of explanation with good grammar?

 

[OlimarFan]

Yeah, and you're either playing in a never ending stage or a stage with walls, with you want DDD to chaingrab until that. and snake requires perfect timing to chaingrab, as he can pull a grenade out. So, if you mess up in your timing only once, for a fraction of second, he will get out.

He's not referring to the stage, my learned friend.

 

[Azgner]

How many times must I say: I KNOW THAT! The guy who says chaingrab until 150% did not. Just read my post and you'll see. See that "your're either playing in a never ending stage[blablabla]" ?

 

[CouRt]

this works wonders, let me tell you.
me and jesiahTEG both live in the same area and go to the same tourneys, and i used this in my second round against a sonic player and i destroyed him.
thank you sir<3
see you saturday?

 

[teh_spamerer]

Your "patented" strategy lists no options of Meta Knight hitting the mine with a spaced dair that blows it up without hitting him.

 

[StoleUrCar]

this works wonders, let me tell you.
me and jesiahTEG both live in the same area and go to the same tourneys, and i used this in my second round against a sonic player and i destroyed him.
thank you sir<3
see you saturday?

So is Sonic a challenge now or something?

 

[JesiahTEG]

Your "patented" strategy lists no options of Meta Knight hitting the mine with a spaced dair that blows it up without hitting him.

Just Ftilt or Utilt him. If he's really going to get that close to you without hitting you he's stupid anyways.

Go troll someone else's thread punk.

 

[teh_spamerer]

Just Ftilt or Utilt him. If he's really going to get that close to you without hitting you he's stupid anyways.

M2K did it to me and he was too far away for an ftilt or an uptilt to hit him. If you're too close to the mine it'll blow you up. That means you have to be outside of the explosion's range so it doesn't blow you up when Meta smacks it with a spaced dair on the other side of the mine and even Snake's imba tilts aren't going to hit THAT far away.

Go troll someone else's thread punk.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Not to mention, if you're smart you can mix it up w/grenades/nikitas and you know what happens if you swing your sword at a Grenade.

When we play I'll do it and you'll get angry.

 

[CaliburChamp]

Nice strategy. You can call it Wall of Explosion. WoE for short. sounds pretty sweet.

 

[CouRt]

So is Sonic a challenge now or something?

sonic isnt a challenge, but it's an easy way to counter his speed.

 

[TechnoMonster]

What do you do when he Dimensional Capes right past it?

 

[JesiahTEG]

Ftilt the **** out of him.

 

[AlAxe]

It seems like you've developed a good strat but i don't think it's quite so simple. Good MK players will be patient and find ways around it. Don't get me wrong, it's a good strat, but its not like your strat = win. Also a lot of stages would make this strat a lot more difficult.

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

Sounds like a god **** nightmare. I HATE fighting Snake.

 

[da K.I.D.]

well now that i know what youre doing im going to **** you...

both of you

*points to self* destroyed sonic player...
and to answer the question, no sonic is not a challenge, unless you are playing the best one on the east coast...

*points to self again*

i dont think enough when i play, i do all of my thinking before the match and come in and start trying to kill you.

but when i stop during a match to think about what im doing and how to make it better, i play much better,... fox's up smash says hi court.

but lol at this thread, i should link it to Ian rofl.

but either way, this mess wont be happening to me again

 

[bman in 2288]

This has gone from pseudo-strat to general tips on how to camp.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Dude, you're so worried about this being "camping." Ok, I'll tell you a little secret:

This is a camping strategy. Hard to see? No. Is it a good strategy that helps Snake a lot vs Metaknight? Yes. Is it unbeatable or a free win? No. It's a good strategy like many other strategies, and it requires skill and prediction of your opponent to pull off successfully.

Normally people look down on camping because it's an easy way to win and takes no discipline or skill. This DOES take skill and practice, so it doesn't matter if it's camping or not. And even if it was really easy to do and took no skill, it wouldn't matter. Camping is a really good strategy and it's allowed. People use it and I do too. If you want a better chance of winning with Snake, I'd suggest you do it also.

 

[da K.I.D.]

this is coming from a guy who takes the mantra of, "play to win", more seriously than anybody ive ever seen before...

you should probably listen to him

 

[bman in 2288]

Nah, I didn't mean it....

Wait, no I said I was worried about it being stalling. Now it just sounds like general camping tips.

But yeah, it works, so work it. Not too worried about it anymore.

 

[Magnawolf]

I don't believe you can just have a set strategy that you can repeat on playing a certain character. It doesn't work like that.

 

[strike42]

i love this tatic, its so great its added some new variety to my game. plus its helped me win more.

 

[Azgner]

well, I three stocked a marth today thanks to it. and it sure helps racking damage against MK

 

[JesiahTEG]

This just in: MK CAN actually space a Dtilt and blow it up...but it's reallly hard for them to and it leaves them a bit open..you can ftilt them once they blow it up i think

 

[Azgner]

His d-tilt is quick, but you can nikita him during it. The mine will be blow up eventually, but i think that racking damage is the important part of the strat

 

[da K.I.D.]

I don't believe you can just have a set strategy that you can repeat on playing a certain character. It doesn't work like that.

than ur dumb, there are certain characters *coughcoughsnakemetaknightcough* that you have to have a set plan when you go into a fight against them, or else they will **** you.

 

[-Ran]

Over use of any one strategy results in the strategy becoming ineffective. Smart people won't run and power shield the mine, they'll walk forwards, and do a lagless power shield. Pending how high your mortar shells are, they could then go into a Dash Grab and throw you out of your comfort zone. Then it's all about them hugging close to you to prevent you from getting into 'lay mine mode.' The strat requires at least three seconds to set up since the key is the Mine being laid.

Zelda ->I don't see this working on Zelda, since she can just Din's fire the entire set up, or not even approach at all with Nayru's love.
Kirby -> His Up B wave explodes mines. Once he swallows Snake he can use grenades, which will prevent the set up from -ever- working. After that, he'll stick close the entire match.
Fox -> Can approach to force you to Mortar. He can then jump up and reflect the mortar, damaging you out of your set up. From there, it's all about him staying close. The grenades won't do much to him since he can reflect [possibly damaging the set up as well.]
Donkey Kong -> Super Armor frames in Donkey Punch, and his Up B provide him all he needs to destroy this set up.
Game and Watch -> Spaced bacon ftw. =P
Bowser -> Firebreath? All he has to do is walk forwards. If he doesn't rush, he's fine.
Marth -> Walking to Power Shield to Up B?
Meta Knight -> Aside from the Nair to kill the Mortar and the dair to take out the mine, he can do a walking power shield approach as -everyone- in the cast can do. From there he could do his Shuttle Glide, or he could short hop -backwards-, dragging you into an attack, which then leads to him going onto an offensive.

 

[bman in 2288]

...Don't think Fox can reflect the mortars...