Japans tierlist???

[Zeallyx]

I find it amusing how tier lists are based on character capability, and yet, there are 'different' tier lists =P

And yeah, I understand one cant judge characters in ways one doesnt know the character, but come on, there's the world wide web.

 

[Silent Beast]

In the top row of that matchup chart, DK and Lucas are switched.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I find it amusing how tier lists are based on character capability, and yet, there are 'different' tier lists =P

And yeah, I understand one cant judge characters in ways one doesnt know the character, but come on, there's the world wide web.

Tier lists are actually based on what we know the character is capable of. It's very well possible that Japan is really, really good at dodging the ICs grab game, and that most japanese people know how to turn Diddy's bananas against him so well that diddy it hardly good any more. Who knows? It could also be the other way around, but somehow I doubt it.

...

We need more japanese people here.

 

[Zeallyx]

Tier lists are actually based on what we know the character is capable of. It's very well possible that Japan is really, really good at dodging the ICs grab game, and that most japanese people know how to turn Diddy's bananas against him so well that diddy it hardly good any more. Who knows? It could also be the other way around, but somehow I doubt it.

...

We need more japanese people here.

Thats not so much character capability as it is overall new game engine using trats. tricks.

Which is wishfull thinking.

 

[san.]

Ok, spoke to some of the Japanese players today and they don't have an official tier list. Most Japanese players have their own opinions on character rankings. So nothing is really official. .-.

Never knew red text was invisible.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Thats not so much character capability as it is overall new game engine using trats. tricks.

Which is wishfull thinking.

Yes, but can we really claim, after 2 years, to know exactly what each character is capable of at the very highest possible level? Of course not. That's why the tier lists could be different. Perfect character capability is not known to us.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Tier lists are actually based on what we know the character is capable of. It's very well possible that Japan is really, really good at dodging the ICs grab game, and that most japanese people know how to turn Diddy's bananas against him so well that diddy it hardly good any more. Who knows? It could also be the other way around, but somehow I doubt it.

Ok, spoke to some of the Japanese players today and they don't have an official tier list. Most Japanese players have their own opinions on character rankings. So nothing is really official. .-.

I am more inclined to think of the above statement BPC. If you have no real structure for discussion, then you cannot hope to get any real tier list which is why the examples of the past have been so skewed from our own. They are incomplete lists that, more than likely, were brought forth from bias opinions.

Besides, tier lists are imperfect forms of listing characters anyway due to the sheer number of factors that must be considered to ever generate anything accurate. Even if we did get something accurate, I still do not get the point in deliberation over something that has no particular merit apart from settling idle curisoity over who is the best characters in the game. Match-up discussion are useful because people can learn how to play against a character. Rulesets are useful because they provide a common ground for tournaments. Frame data discussions or even theorycrafting is useful for it can eventually lead to new strategies for punishment or evasion that had not been thought of before. But tierlists?! They have no benefical merits.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Hmm... yeah, I agree.

 

[redrighthand]

Great Post Xeylode.

A tierlist is merely an object or means for people to make comparisons to. I think it is useful as a rough guide of the potential for great application each character has, but saying that (almost) any character can be great in the hands of a very talented individual.

Yet a hierarchy of characters still remains; as this game was not created to be perfectly balanced from the get go. It was made for enjoyment.




Ah, the Brawl Tactical Discussion boards. Amazing :D

 

[Chuee]

IC's position is odd.
I think Japan has a lot of IC players.

 

[Brawlin]

Wow Zelda/Sheik is 10th best in Japan but Zelda is 3rd worst and Sheik is 23rd in America. Diddy and Ice Climbers also are significantly lower. Japan's tier list is really different overall.

 

[-RedX-]

Holy ****, red text must be invisible.

 

[Insetick]

Why are we US players so intent on establishing tier lists? Tier lists really do discourage tourney players from experimenting with characters. We underestimate many characters b/c they now have so little representation.

 

[Damage Points]

I think well see diddy lower on the next list. But still japaense have diddy to low for their current 3 stages. Diddy does well on all 3. Either they have no good diddys or they know more about defeating him tha us. I'm more inclined to think they suck with him.

 

[JOE!]

The japanese are more inclined to play the fast rush-down characters, thus why Shiek is way up there...

Diddy isnt really rushdown as much as he is set-up and punish, so no surprise he isnt well repped?

 

[iFudge]

The japanese are more inclined to play the fast rush-down characters, thus why Shiek is way up there...

Diddy isnt really rushdown as much as he is set-up and punish, so no surprise he isnt well repped?

d3 isnt rushdown. pit isnt rushdown. snake isnt rushdown :O

 

[JOE!]

those 3 are the exception as:

Snake is retardedly designed for how long he lives, and how quickly/easily he can rack damage/kill you,

D3 has the CG and shenanigans

Pit is like their Diddy; some downright amazing players picked him up over there

 

[Rubberbandman]

Holy ****, red text must be invisible.

SWF is made up of Godots, no red exists.

Also about tier lists, you cant really say that unless the game has actual balance because if you look at MvC2 there is a clear cut difference between God tier and Roll tier characters.

 

[TreK]

Their list is based on the average of the matchups. Most tops **** everything that isn't b tier or above, it isn't Diddy's case. Diddy has got even matchups against pretty much everyone in the game, just like DK.

This list doesn't take into account the importance of individual matchups, if you prefer it said that way.

 

[Bartolon]

LOOOL NESS XD
That low, nonsense.

 

[WindMajor]

Why are we US players so intent on establishing tier lists? Tier lists really do discourage tourney players from experimenting with characters. We underestimate many characters b/c they now have so little representation.

Tier Lists suggest what characters we put in special Tier-related events, like low tier tournies.

 

[<π]

You guys have it all wrong japan does tier lists like every one else. based soley on match ups. Zelda sheik just has amazing match ups. MK has no bad ones. Snake doesn't really lose to anyone. D3 is also hard to find a solid counter against.

It isn't about how a character places its about how well they do against the whole of the cast. The SBB tier list and the Japanese one are constructed completely differently.

 

[Damage Points]

Shiek sucks lol. She gets wrecked by a lot of characters. She's to high on their list.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

Shiek sucks lol. She gets wrecked by a lot of characters. She's to high on their list.

I hope you do realize, that this has even already been said, that Japan plays different from us?

 

[Damage Points]

Really??? Didn't realize that bro.



Anyways regardless you can't make a characters horrible moveset better by playing differently. Thanks tho.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

You guys have it all wrong japan does tier lists like every one else. based soley on match ups. Zelda sheik just has amazing match ups. MK has no bad ones. Snake doesn't really lose to anyone. D3 is also hard to find a solid counter against.

It isn't about how a character places its about how well they do against the whole of the cast. The SBB tier list and the Japanese one are constructed completely differently.

D3 is also hard to find a solid counter against.

Typo? I mean, we have ICs, Pika, Olimar, Falco...

 

[Zeallyx]

Ok, spoke to some of the Japanese players today and they don't have an official tier list. Most Japanese players have their own opinions on character rankings. So nothing is really official. .-.

lol. That's just funny.

 

[<π]

Shiek sucks lol. She gets wrecked by a lot of characters. She's to high on their list.

like whom? sheik by herself (no zelda) has 2 iffy match ups. Zelda wrecks pika. and ICs are way over hyped.

Float around the boards and talk to the character boards and ask who sheik does bad against.

 

[gallax]

Sheik/zelda lose to snake and marth. Nuff said. Sheiks bad.




















































Jk sheiks good.

 

[lilseph]

Sheik is really good, she has a hard time killing.

 

[JOE!]

I heard her down B can kill

 

[Tesh]

like whom? sheik by herself (no zelda) has 2 iffy match ups. Zelda wrecks pika. and ICs are way over hyped.

Float around the boards and talk to the character boards and ask who sheik does bad against.

Zelda beats pikachu? How?

 

[<π]

zelda has one of the better zoning games despite being easy to camp. pika has no range and a projectile that just isn't going to out camp zelda on most stages. the approach is very difficult for pika becuase of zelda's usmash nair and fsmash.

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

True. Projectiles: Zelda > Pikachu
Whenever I try and approach, I always manage to get hit with a dtilt, which causes me to go into a tripping animation, then punished.

Pikas are ahead with there match up, but barely. 55/45

 

[Damage Points]

Still haven't played a good pika yet. None in my state.

 

[Big-Cat]

Anyways regardless you can't make a characters horrible moveset better by playing differently. Thanks tho.

It's not surprising considering that every character has their own style. You just have to find the right style that suits her moves best.

 

[Damage Points]

I agree with that Kuma.

 

[Aglow]

Still haven't played a good pika yet. None in my state.

Das yo fault. I take it you are going to MLG? Ask ESAM for a mm.

 

[Damage Points]

Yes I'm going. And yes I should.

 

[sneakytako]

They have a lot less players than we do, so their opinion is biased against underused characters. (pit is really high on the tierlist based on masashi being a beast lol)