Japanese Tier List by SHI-G March '15 (Version 1.0.2)

[Comorant]

game and watch above link? jiggs before doc? idk man

Game and Watch has combos on most of the cast up to 90% so...

Jiggs below Doc is pretty hilarious though.

 

[Zodiacx10]

Game and Watch has combos on most of the cast up to 90% so...

Jiggs below Doc is pretty hilarious though.

not saying G&W is bad...i just think Link is better than him

 

[Lil Puddin]

Yes, she's worse than Marth, but why is she last??? (Besides mii swordsman) That goes for Marth too.

They also shouldn't be right next to each other. Marth is much better than her, but this list acts like they are almost equal, which is another reason why this list shouldnt't be taken very seriously.

She isn't much worse than Marth. She is just different. Marth is superior, assuming you space. Lucina doesn't have a hard time with kills off the side, but she can never really net vertical kills. Which really puts her at a disadvantage against light characters who stay towards the center of the stage.

In terms of a tier list, I would assume it would be like Marth, (other character), Lucina. Or maybe 2 spaces over. But she wouldn't be way lower.

ALSO! We don't know what the Mewtwo patch might bring. It might bring more character adjustments. Giving Lucina more KB on close ranged hits and Marth stronger tippers would be an easy way to make them mid tier or better. It'd basically be Roy/Marth all over again.

Personally I think Marth is better than Zelda and Lizardon, the rest I'm not sure

He is pretty good, but he has a few flaws. His biggest one is his predictability and his awful neutral game. Zelda at least has many tricks up her sleeve, but no speed to utilize it... Not to mention the end lag on half her attacks. Lizardon is very big and has slow attacks, but he has a lot of range and is a decent edge guarder. He also doesn't fear projectiles and can get early kills (60%-80%) too.

 

[TeddyBearYoshi]

Bad tier list. Why? Lucas is so low tier that he isn't even on it!... Haha... right? :,( #LucasforDLC

 

[J-Tech]

I don't really believe in tier lists. I believe that any character is good and viable in a tournament as long as you know how to use them effectively.

 

[LancerStaff]

I don't really believe in tier lists. I believe that any character is good and viable in a tournament as long as you know how to use them effectively.

Okay... But tier lists are just a ranking of how easy that would be with any given character.

 

[Syrek]

And this is why I could't give a flying crap about tier lists. I decide which characters I want to play, regardless of what others think or where my mains are on a tier list. I just can't take them seriously given how I could care less about tournament play seeing as I have no interest in the competitive scene. But to each they're own I suppose. My advice to everyone else though. Play whatever character you enjoy, even if that character is at the bottom of someone's tier list because it's about having fun, not letting some arbitrary list determine who you will main and who you will not main.

 

[Nerdicon]

Sheesh. The Monado Boy is too low.
That is all.

Ok I lied.
Wario and Villager must get more play over in Japan, I never see any good ones here (often)
Lucina may not be the best, but right above Mii Swordfighter? That's waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too low.
Why is Little Mac above DK?
I honestly wonder just how different the meta is over there

 

[Lil Puddin]

Sheesh. The Monado Boy is too low.
That is all.

Ok I lied.
Wario and Villager must get more play over in Japan, I never see any good ones here (often)
Lucina may not be the best, but right above Mii Swordfighter? That's waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too low.
Why is Little Mac above DK?
I honestly wonder just how different the meta is over there

More defensive, less offensive. Especially with online fights.

And yeah, Shulk is easily upper-mid tier, or at least mid-mid tier. He has great approach methods, ridonk counter, nice reach/pokes, and respectable base kill power. However, he's bad with campers and anti-fighters. Thus giving him a lower spot on the Japanese tier list. Which is dumb.

 

[WalkerTheTalker]

luigi too low should be A

 

[AceStarThe3rd]

I made a video on my mindset about this overall great tier list

 

[Funkermonster]

Okay.....

With the fewer stage choices, I think I can see why is a little higher in Japan, and that makes me kinda glad actually. Bowser Jr and Duck Hunt also seems a little better there and I'm glad to see that, and I guess the stage choices are hurting / quite alot? I guess it makes sense since they need platforms to defend themselves like on Battlefield, and they are stuck with their worst stage (FD) and an average one? I barely know how to use Robin, so I dunno.

But while I don't disagree that is easily Low Tier, she's right at the bottom with Mii Swordfighter? Wut? I'm also kinda surprised to see Marth that low too. I mean, yeah they're pretty bad, but are they really crap tier bad? As degrading as their weaknesses are, I just don't see it.

 

[Sonsa]

My attention to this was brought on by AceStar actually so sorry I'm kinda late but, here's what I commented there, a little edited as it's an hour later, but here we go:

-I think Nairo has proved that Robin can be very effective if you strategize your attacks correctly, and losing your tomes can give you a long range kill option (those books are so heavy!) Should be...right above Bowser Jr I think.
-Falco...yeah, his approaches are bad cause he's a more defensive Fox similar to how Doc is a more defensive Mario. Falco benefits a lot from shield grabs, and can follow up/kill in the air real well with his awesome jumping. Should be a bit higher...
-Greninja should be just a bit higher, on Duck Hunt and Pac-Man's level.
-I'm not sure about Marth (tipper is pretty good but I don't play/haven't played many good Marths so I just don't know), but Lucina shouldn't be the 2nd worst character in the game, her recovery might be obvious, but it's still fast and got a nice hitbox, plus her range, shield break, follow-ups, she has to be at least where Shulk is, maybe even just slightly under Meta Knight or Bowser?
-I really don't know what they see in Wario, he should follow his Brawl buddies and be down where Olimar and Meta Knight are. He can be kinda good when played optimally and opponents fall for some obvious bike tricks, but...well I just haven't seen what they have I guess.
-Fox can be right between Falcon and Mario
-Toon Link is kinda a mystery to me, I thought Link was even better, but I guess his jank down smash insta-kill and back-throw kill...fine...I guess. Would like to see more Toon Link players in tourney to understand the character at high level better.
-Mii Gunner could be lower, it's insulting that Robin, Falco, and Lucina are lower. Mii Gunner doesn't even seem that much better than Mii Swordsman. They have range, but recovery is pretty bad and...whatever, I dunno about them.
-Jiggz could be a bit higher, maybe just between Palutena and G&W. Definitely above Mii Gunner. She can really go to town on characters without safe "get off me" options.

Mmm... honestly otherwise pretty solid!

 

[Foster J.]

@ Sonsa Abadango represents Wario amazingly well, and has since Brawl. After all he took 2nd at Cannes Winter Clash against Mr. R's Sheik!
Because Abadango has been going ham in Japan, the character earns a high rating in the Japanese Meta and thus earns his 6th place. He's fast, has a killing grab, and a kill mechanic, ZHE FART! Abadango uses the fart mechanic amazingly well, apparently the hitbox is extended / Prolonged if he farts on the bike, and this setup is a CRAZY setup which Abadango uses, you lose ledge invincebility? Fart of Death, you jump? He can throw the bike / intercept you, Roll? Still in fart hitbox!

Edit: Here's footage of his Wario, you can see why Wario is 6th in Japan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1vxep6QCrk&t=6530


The same can be said about Nairo currently being the top representative of the Pits, both Dark and Normal. However he hasn't won anything major with them, however he has taken sets of people. M2K's Diddy is a snack for his Pit, it's currently a underrated character, and it's one of those character that relies more player skill to shine.
I defo think that Dark Pit deserves to be RIGHT next to Pit in the tier list, not because he's a clone, but because the playstyle is basically the same.

I think my biggest surprise was Megaman being regarded as high B, for sure the character is good, but requires tedious stamina for shooting pellets constantly, but as far as I know, there hasn't been any good Megamans showing after Zucco left the scene to my knowledge. Who is holding a candle to the fire in Japan?

 

[Sonsa]

Hm. A lot of Wario's set-ups, like farting on the bike are quite predictable, but maybe it's just too good that people keep falling for it. Ill havta look up their set. I just think maybe he should be more around ROB level, not 6th best character. What's his killing grab though, didnt know about that!

Pits good. He could be slightly higher, but thats a good spot. While the playstyles are similar the positioning is fine as Dark Pit is basically a Pit with worse arrows and more damage in exchange for less knockback. Pit killing earlier and gimping much more effectively definitely deserves to be noticeably above his failed clone.

As for Megaman, one placed really high at Apex while Im sure many others followed just behind. I remember a good fight with Yoshi...oh! And one gave Abadango's Pac-Man some trouble, that was a good set. He's a pretty heavy character that throws out lots of hitboxes, can recover rather well (albeit predictably), has plenty of setups, and plenty of kill moves. I think his placement is just fine.

 

[Foster J.]

Wario's Fthrow kills, I'm not 100 % about the knockback ratio on it, but it seems to kill earlier or the same around the Pit's Fthrow, but since Wario is heavier he benefits more from rage. Bthrow can also kill, but it's not ideal as Fthrow still hold more Knockback.

Rob is limited by his liniar recovery though, you see a lot of Rob's getting spiked, and Wario's recovery is a lot safer than Robs.
(Just don't forget where your bike is LOL)

Oh yeah Ninjalink, I forgot about him.

 

[Sonsa]

Wario's Fthrow kills, I'm not 100 % about the knockback ratio on it, but it seems to kill earlier or the same around the Pit's Fthrow, but since Wario is heavier he benefits more from rage. Bthrow can also kill, but it's not ideal as Fthrow still hold more Knockback.

Rob is limited by his liniar recovery though, you see a lot of Rob's getting spiked, and Wario's recovery is a lot safer than Robs.
(Just don't forget where your bike is LOL)

Oh yeah Ninjalink, I forgot about him.

Yeah, just saw an Abadango vs Mr. R set. But Mr. R still wins pretty convincingly. Sure, each character has their weaknesses, Rob's recovery is less safe but Rob racks up damage more safely whereas Wario needs to go in and bring his hurtbox closer to the opponent. Wario's bike might have a hitbox, but recovering to the stage it doesn't have much defense either, your aim needs to be better but he's subject to spikes too.

In the set I watched, this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JZt9G3dE2E, Abadango really struggles to finish Mr. R off during the end there. Maybe its just the matchup but when I try out Wario I tend to have trouble killing too. Abadango is great, but...I'm just not convinced. Wario looks so out of place on this tier list between Sonic, Rosalina, Villager, and Zamus... Wario's very good! But not that good. Good tools, not the best, but certainly a threat.

 

[Foster J.]

Yeah, just saw an Abadango vs Mr. R set. But Mr. R still wins pretty convincingly. Sure, each character has their weaknesses, Rob's recovery is less safe but Rob racks up damage more safely whereas Wario needs to go in and bring his hurtbox closer to the opponent. Wario's bike might have a hitbox, but recovering to the stage it doesn't have much defense either, your aim needs to be better but he's subject to spikes too.
.

Mr. R is pretty much refered to as the best Sheik in the world, and Sheik is hard to punish as she doesn't have any laggy moves.
But regardless, I can only imagine how many NON Mr. R Sheik's that Abadango has beaten already in Japan.

This is the Japanese Tier list anyway, and it reflects his success in Japan with the character, Maybe not 6th place, but Wario is imo top tier.

 

[Sonsa]

Mr. R is pretty much refered to as the best Sheik in the world, and Sheik is hard to punish as she doesn't have any laggy moves.
But regardless, I can only imagine how many NON Mr. R Sheik's that Abadango has beaten already in Japan.

This is the Japanese Tier list anyway, and it reflects his success in Japan with the character, Maybe not 6th place, but Wario is imo top tier.

Yeah, well you havta imagine that Abadango is one of the only players pushing Wario to that high a level that many opponents dont have the matchup experience, but either way he's a great player and yeah, Wario's dandy. All Im saying is he shouldnt be that high. Being Mid-B is still quite high and respectable.

 

[Lunastra]

I still love Marth. Marth's the guy that won me the "Beat Classic On Intensity 9 Without Losing A Single Life" challenge even.

These tier lists are always just how they perform in a tournament, right? Like, how many people here use Wario?


Also, what makes Lucina so bad that she's always at the bottom of lists?

Very few use her because they think she is a bad Marth and as for Marth he got nerfed

 

[adamlon1]

This is a good tier list but I would change:
Marth in Lower C or upper D (The reason I think that Marth should deserve more than this is because I main Marth and it's not because of bias I legit think he is a worthy character because when you look at him just from his Frame Data he doesn't look all that good but once you pick him up and try him you can see that with the right player he can be amazing because of his solid matchups, (Evidence of this being his matchup against Mario, Rosalina, Captain Falcon and etc) great kill power and good defensive play however that Frame Data though and that lag is just ugh)
Lucina in upper D (Same reasons as the above however just worse spacing game and depending on the spacing worse kill power)
Mario and Luigi replaced tier slots (Although Mario is amazing I do not think that he is upper A I think he is in the middle of A because of his reliance on getting in if a melee zoner comes by around the corner Mario will not be able to touch him however if Mario players find a way to get around melee zoners I will reconsider this slot however currently in the meta game I think that Luigi is better due to his Antimeta playstyle and good matchups against fairly used characters such as Mario, Sheik, Diddy Kong, and Sonic all because of that amazing fireball which mario is lacking so he can't get in as safe as Luigi can because he can't be as patient and as safe as Luigi)
Pikachu and Ness trading spots (Pikachu has a ton of potential because of his Combo and edgeguarding game and Ness although having great kill options and has the ability to rack damage it is really easy to edgeguard a Ness)
Peach needs to be in Lower B (Amazing Character but not enough representation if you need info on Peach's Combos and Damage potential just go see EOE's videos on Peach as I feel that explains her Combo and damage potential very well just with a simple combo guide now on peach's killpower I think that her killpower is quite immense as she can kill you with a good fair offstage as well as onstage and her smashes are not only good with killing but also on Damage as they do tons of good Damage but Peach's big kill move is Bair as that is possibly her fastest kill move and can be a good combo extender at early percents and a good combo finisher at late percents and on top of that has very good knockback and is fast it is just amazing)
Kirby needs to be in D (I would put kirby in C but there aren't that many players using him however his Frame Data and Damage potential is great and he does have decent killpower)
Shulk needs to be in Lower C(I understand why Japan put Shulk low due to his neutral stance being awful and relying too much on his Damage and Speed Art however his range is amazing and his Fair, Nair and D tilt back this up however somewhat being on the laggy side)
I know my opinions can be too much but I honestly do think these things and if you wish to call me out on any information I got wrong

 

[Buffalo]

Gotta say... Jiggs and Shulk seem pretty under-placed here.

Olimar, Villager, Wario, Pit, Meta Knight, and Dedede (although I love him) are all much higher than I was expecting.

 

[Zodiacx10]

Gotta say... Jiggs and Shulk seem pretty under-placed here.

Olimar, Villager, Wario, Pit, Meta Knight, and Dedede (although I love him) are all much higher than I was expecting.

shulk has a lot of potential with those monados of his...and monado canceling

 

[Zionaze]

You all seem to be forgetting that this is the "japanese" tier list and how each and every character is successful over there.
Again a tier list isn't a "how good/bad this character is" list, its a recording of "how likely the character will win a tournament."
Reason why Wario is so high is because of Abadango's success and Marth/Lucina is so low because nobody has won or showed any signs of success at Japan. Even if the character is good, if nobody uses or wins with them they don't get much approval.

UNRELATED MUMBLEJUMBLE: Society made us so sensitive to grading everything. We naturally think A and B is good while anything below a C is bad, or 4,5 stars over 2. That urks me.

 

[AirJordans]

I don't really believe in tier lists. I believe that any character is good and viable in a tournament as long as you know how to use them effectively.

A tier list isn't a rule, it's a reflection of numerical results, history, and usually a lot of people's opinions (some of which really really know what they are talking about). You can play a guitar however you want, but history shows that it works easiest and there are pleasant results when used a certain way. You can still make it sound like a bass or a turntable.

Some things, while not definitive or provable, still have a bell curve of data that you can't refute. That's just science, dog.

 

[Skywalker564]

How I would put my tier list:

S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
E:

 

[KingHeavyYTP]

Needs more Diddy Kong.

 

[BuTTNutz]

Since Mega Man is my main i always thought he'd be low A tier or High B tier but yeah, i still am okay with his placement on this list

 

[TyGotKrazyy50]

I find funny that I can win to Diddy Kongs using Link, Lucina and WFT.

Try beating Mew2King's Diddy O_o Omg if I ever fight Mew2King's Diddy I would get abbout 43% on him x3.. While he would 2 stock me...

 

[DavemanCozy]

I made a video on my mindset about this overall great tier list

I think that Wario is a top 10, honestly. Maybe not that high, but he's still really good.

His range might not be great but his air movement is insane. He's the reverse of Mario: Mario has better running speed but worse air speed, while Wario has Lugi running speed but better air speed. His air speed is comparable to Yoshi's and Jigglypuff's.

His ground game was also improved. D-tilt is a fast interruption, F-tilt is fast, dash attack has a late trip hitbox as well that can be very useful for forcing get-ups and tech chasing.

His Waft can KO very early, around the 50% range on max charge, even with the damage nerf it's fairly powerful.

Chomp is a command grab and biting your opponent racks up damage. Chomping also can eat certain items and projectiles to heal Wario 1% and charge the Waft slightly faster. Such items and projectiles include:

• Wario's bike
• Pac Man's bonus fruits
• Peach's Turnips
• Yoshi's eggs (before exploding)
• Diddy's Banana and Peanut (!)

Chomp can intercept Sonic's Spin Dash, Diddy's Monkey Flip (the command grab, not the attack), and Sheik's Bouncing Fish (before the kick comes out) as well: the command grab will activate before they hit him.

His bike may have lost pieces, but is still pretty good. Amazing for recovery, as a projectile, a throwable item, shield pressure, and setting up frame-traps.

Essentially, he's a heavier, fatter, farting Jigglypuff with Kirby's appetite and a bike.

 

[Grass]

Tier list is BS. Japan, you don't know what you're talking about. Marth is mid tier. Not bottom and palutena above Marth? LMAO, I'm sorry Japan, you BS'in

 

[Cthulhu_MD]

Tier list is BS. Japan, you don't know what you're talking about. Marth is mid tier. Not bottom and palutena above Marth? LMAO, I'm sorry Japan, you BS'in

Please do not post comments hating on the tier list just because you dislike the placement of a character.

Rules are here for a reason. I don't necessarily agree on Marth's placement, but I do see why they placed him so low.

 

[RetroGamersGuru]

Tier list is BS. Japan, you don't know what you're talking about. Marth is mid tier. Not bottom and palutena above Marth? LMAO, I'm sorry Japan, you BS'in

That respect though. Lol

 

[Grass]

That respect though. Lol

I calls it like I sees it. And while they're at it. Japan shouldn't make DK bottom tier. @DKwill proved DK has a chance in tournies.

 

[RedCap-BlueSpikes]

I calls it like I sees it. And while they're at it. Japan shouldn't make DK bottom tier. @DKwill proved DK has a chance in tournies.

Japan loooooves FD tho, and DK gets bopped by a lot of characters on that stage. There's a reason DKWill avoids FD as much as he can.

 

[Zionaze]

I myself see Palu above Marth/Lucina. And while were at it this tier list is the only one where subtle character difference doesnt affect the ranking, Marcina, Dark/Pit and Doc are all placed near each other. Every other list I've seen always have them 2~3 tier apart from each other.

I agree with this tier list 90.2%

 

[TeddyBearYoshi]

I calls it like I sees it.

It would be better if you called it like the rules allow you to?

I myself see Palu above Marth/Lucina. And while were at it this tier list is the only one where subtle character difference doesnt affect the ranking, Marcina, Dark/Pit and Doc are all placed near each other. Every other list I've seen always have them 2~3 tier apart from each other.

I agree with this tier list 90.2%

Same, but I'm not sure how I feel about Lucina being that low. I think she's a bit better than Marth in this game but I know this is based on tournaments and not actual character stats.

 

[MapleWooD]

I'm good with this tier list for the most part. Kinda wish Zard, Falco and Ganon were a bit higher and Fox a bit lower. As far as the Fire Emblem characters are concerned, I still think Marth is the best, dunno about the others

 

[LordCQ]

Try beating Mew2King's Diddy O_o Omg if I ever fight Mew2King's Diddy I would get abbout 43% on him x3.. While he would 2 stock me...

Who the hell is Mew2King? :O

 

[MapleWooD]

Who the hell is Mew2King? :O

You can't be serious