Japanese Tier List by SHI-G March '15 (Version 1.0.2)

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Jucchan

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#1
https://game8.jp/matome/22362
(Version 1.0.2)
Please do not post comments hating on the tier list just because you dislike the placement of a character.

S :
:4diddy:
A :
(High):4sheik: :4yoshi: :4sonic::rosalina:
(Mid):4wario: :4villager::4zss:
(Low):4fox:

B :
(High):4ness::4falcon::4mario:
(Mid):4pikachu: :4luigi::4rob::4megaman:
(Low):4pacman::4pit::4duckhunt:

C :
(High):4darkpit::4lucario::4greninja:
(Mid-High):4dedede::4tlink::4olimar::4metaknight:
(Mid-Low):4peach::4bowser:
(Low):4bowserjr::4littlemac:
D :
(High):4shulk::4miibrawl::4palutena:
(Mid):4gaw::4link::4drmario:
(Low):4miigun::4jigglypuff:

E :
(High):4robinm: :4falco::4dk::4kirby:
(Mid-High):4wiifit::4myfriends: :4ganondorf::4samus:
(Mid-Low):4zelda::4charizard::4marth:
(Low):4lucina::4miisword:

Rules:
WiiU Singles
Items off
Stages: Final Destination, Battlefield, Smashville, Omega Stages
2 stocks 6 minutes
Miis are default size, 1111 set.
(Not written in article, but customs off)

Voting:
Each of the 9 SHI-G members ranked each character as A-E, with A=10, B=8, C=7, D=6, and E=5. After the average of was taken, any character with an average score of >9=A, >8=B, >7=C, >6=D, and >5=E. Every member gets 2 votes for S tier; only a character with all members voting for it to be S-tier gets promoted to S.

S Tier Voting:
Diddy got the 9 votes needed to retain S-tier status. Shiek had 4 votes, while Sonic had 2.

Some Data:
The character with the biggest rise in score was Olimar, with +1.67, jumping from E tier to C tier. He had success at Apex and had his Pikmin AI buffed. Mario was a close second, with +1.62.
The character the worst fall was Lucario, with -1.82. The second largest drop was Jigglypuff with -0.8.
Mario, Captain Falcon, and Ness had the largest standard deviation with 0.994. (I think it's probably because they were debating between A tier which is worth 10 and B tier which is worth 8)

Quote from Tenuhe:
"In voting, I imagined a tier list where B and above is a placement where you can win tournaments straight-forwardly, C needs amazing player skill or gimmicky tactics to attempt to win a tournament, and anything D and below has their limit capped at top 8."
 
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#3
There are so many placements I don't agree with. I sometimes wonder just how different the meta is in Japan. If the split meta is anything like in Yu-Gi-Oh! then their Smash meta must be a very different meta to ours.
 
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Jucchan

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#4
There are so many placements I don't agree with. I sometimes wonder just how different the meta is in Japan. If the split meta is anything like in Yu-Gi-Oh! then their Smash meta must be a very different meta to ours.
Japan has Abadango playing Wario, hence his higher placing. Japan also gets a lot of Bowser compared to the US I think. Japan also doesn't have someone like Nairo to demonstrate Robin. Japanese tounaments usually ban Delfino and Halberd, so some characters don't get their early kills off the top.
 
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MegaSilver

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#8
I still love Marth. Marth's the guy that won me the "Beat Classic On Intensity 9 Without Losing A Single Life" challenge even.

These tier lists are always just how they perform in a tournament, right? Like, how many people here use Wario?


Also, what makes Lucina so bad that she's always at the bottom of lists?
 
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Xygonn

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#9
SHI-G Tier list

S :
:4diddy:
A :
(High):4sheik: :4yoshi: :4sonic::rosalina:
(Mid):4wario: :4villager::4zss:
(Low):4fox:

B :
(High):4ness::4falcon::4mario:
(Mid):4pikachu: :4luigi::4rob::4megaman:
(Low):4pacman::4pit::4duckhunt:

C :
(High):4darkpit::4lucario::4greninja:
(Mid-High):4dedede::4tlink::4olimar::4metaknight:
(Mid-Low):4peach::4bowser:
(Low):4bowserjr::4littlemac:
D :
(High):4shulk::4miibrawl::4palutena:
(Mid):4gaw::4link::4drmario:
(Low):4miigun::4jigglypuff:

E :
(High):4robinm: :4falco::4dk::4kirby:
(Mid-High):4wiifit::4myfriends: :4ganondorf::4samus:
(Mid-Low):4zelda::4charizard::4marth:
(Low):4lucina::4miisword:

Community Tier list:


S:4diddy::4sheik:
A:4pikachu::4ness::4yoshi::rosalina::4falcon::4zss::4sonic:
B:4lucario::4fox::4luigi:
***
C:4miibrawl::4peach::4mario::4shulk::4rob::4villager::4greninja::4megaman:
***
D:4robinf::4olimar::4pit::4wario::4kirby::4tlink::4link::4pacman:
E:4myfriends::4bowser: :4jigglypuff: :4duckhunt: :4darkpit::4metaknight:
F:4marth::4ganondorf::4lucina::4zelda::4falco::4littlemac::4dk::4bowserjr:
G:4samus::4dedede::4drmario::4wiifit::4palutena::4gaw::4charizard::4miigun:
H:4miisword:

Outliers (10 spots or more different):
First outlier (SHI-G), Wario.
First outlier (Community list), Pikachu.

List (Shi-G higher), maybe they know something we don't:
:4wario::4villager::4pacman::4duckhunt::4darkpit::4dedede::4bowserjr::4littlemac::4palutena::4gaw::4miigun:

List (SWF Community higher), maybe we know something they don't:
:4pikachu::4lucario::4peach::4shulk::4miibrawl::4robinm::4kirby::4myfriends::4marth::4lucina:


Consensus good characters (shared in top 13) 10/13 pretty strong consensus:

:4diddy::4sheik: :4yoshi: :4sonic::rosalina::4zss::4fox::4ness::4falcon::4pikachu:

Consensus bad characters (shared in bottom 13) 6/13, less strong consensus:

:4falco::4dk::4samus::4wiifit::4charizard::4miisword:
 
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Reaper Talk

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#13
Shulk, Link, Greninja and Ganon deserve to be higher in my my opinion
Then again, I haven't seen too many Japanese matches
Do they really play that differently from other countries?
Top tier is mostly the same though
 
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#14
I find it strangely satisfying that I use at least one character out of every tier.

Also, is Link really worse than DDD? I get that DDD has more power but his moves are very very slow and easy to evade/dodge.
 

HeroMystic

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#15
Mario above Luigi, Jigglypuff in C Tier, and Ike in bottom tier. I'd say this list is a bit less than credible.
Makes me wonder how good their Marios are or how bad their Luigis are.

I'm more concerned with how immensely high Yoshi is on that list. Top 3? Wtf?
 
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#17
Makes me wonder how good their Marios are or how bad their Luigis are.

I'm more concerned with how immensely high Yoshi is on that list. Top 3? Wtf?
Yoshi is an outstanding character, he deserves that spot more than anybody. But as biased as I am, even I draw the line somewhere. There is no way Mario is #12 while Luigi is #14. Then Doc is all the way at the bottom, which I've never understood. He's not THAT much worse than Mario, is he?
 

Xygonn

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#18
Yoshi is an outstanding character, he deserves that spot more than anybody. But as biased as I am, even I draw the line somewhere. There is no way Mario is #12 while Luigi is #14. Then Doc is all the way at the bottom, which I've never understood. He's not THAT much worse than Mario, is he?
The doc has trash recovery. One of the most gimpable characters in the game.
 

Sanae

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#21
Wow, a lot of my mains are so low in the tier list. D:
It's interesting though to see that the top tiers are almost the same as the top tiers here in the west.
 
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Zethoro

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#22
The doc has trash recovery. One of the most gimpable characters in the game.
So does Mario.

That aside, I find it insane how Japan just keeps spitting out tier lists left and right. They're not even that good from the looks of it. Lucina the second worst character in the game? Diddy deserving his own tier? He's not Brawl MK, he doesn't deserve his own bloody tier.
I am, however, pleased to see that they place Meta Knight higher, around where he belongs, and the high tiers looks mostly accurate in my opinion (the lack of Luigi in top 10 is a bit odd though.)
 
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Karinole

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#23
Japanese metagames sure are interesting. What I do like to see is how the east v. west value certain characters such as wario in Japan and Luigi over here.
 

Xygonn

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#24
Even when you go by that, that's still puzzling. Yoshi is definitely a top character (that somehow is not getting much rep here) but top 5 is stretching imo.
Yoshi is #5 on the community tier list, I'm not saying they are more right or wrong than the Japanese group or the pro-made tier lists here.

Not a good reason. Ganondorf, Shulk, Mac, Fox, and Falcon all have bad recoveries, yet they're higher than him.
I would put ganon and mac below doc personally. All of the others, but shulk, have non-linear recovery options (side b plus up b). Shulk has jump mode and a pretty high vertical up b.
 

warionumbah2

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#25
Also, what makes Lucina so bad that she's always at the bottom of lists?
MU across the board is bad,Her kill power is bad,Her hits on shield isn't safe,Poor recovery,Low reward out of throws. Then add on problems Marth has in Sm4sh.

--------

D3 gets bodied by so many characters i find it surprising that he's so high, although when you got Pit users throwing out fairs to reflect Gordos they'll obviously think D3 is a threat lol.

Edit: I don't agree with MKs placement but its much better than eventhub,swf and other ones that float around, best lists i've seen are the ones made by Shaya and berserk1 . Period.
 
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#27
Yoshi is #5 on the community tier list, I'm not saying they are more right or wrong than the Japanese group or the pro-made tier lists here.



I would put ganon and mac below doc personally. All of the others, but shulk, have non-linear recovery options (side b plus up b). Shulk has jump mode and a pretty high vertical up b.
Side B is Back Slash which sends Shulk to his doom. Fire Fox is extremely linear and is probably the easiest recovery to intercept. Fox Illusion is also easily predicted. Falcon Dive only goes diagonal at first, then to the sides. Both are easily gimpable.
 

HeavyMetalSonic

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#28
He lost a bunch of stuff that made him good in both Melee and Brawl, namely chain grabs, more range on his sword, short hop double FAir and the ability to nullify most of the cast.
This is not the case in Smash 4.
Yeah, it's kinda sad really... He's still pretty fun to use though, just not AS good.

I pretty much agree with A and S except for Wario. The rest of them are definitely high/top tier. The middle of the tier is obviously gonna be pretty jumbled though, not enough is known about them yet to make a solid judgement on them. They need more people putting time into them and figuring out who goes where before people start agreeing that they're set in a certain tier. Of course, not everyone will agree.
 

chipndip

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#29
Fox Illusion is also easily predicted.
But easily stopped?

Hitting Fox out of Fox Illusion is uncanny. Doing it consistently? More so. If they do it towards the ledge, good luck gimping that.

Not impossible, but highly improbable in comparison to most other recoveries.
 
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#30
Well, at least Palutena's getting some love there. It's like the same thing where Brawl Pit was getting love in JP, but not here.
Maybe they just like the KI characters more than we do, especially Pit and Pally.
 
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#31
But easily stopped?

Hitting Fox out of Fox Illusion is uncanny. Doing it consistently? More so. If they do it towards the ledge, good luck gimping that.

Not impossible, but highly improbable in comparison to most other recoveries.
But it can be done, and that's all that matters.
 

Luggy

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#32
https://game8.jp/matome/22362
Please do not post comments hating on the tier list just because you dislike the placement of a character.

S :
:4diddy:
A :
(High):4sheik: :4yoshi: :4sonic::rosalina:
(Mid):4wario: :4villager::4zss:
(Low):4fox:

B :
(High):4ness::4falcon::4mario:
(Mid):4pikachu: :4luigi::4rob::4megaman:
(Low):4pacman::4pit::4duckhunt:

C :
(High):4darkpit::4lucario::4greninja:
(Mid-High):4dedede::4tlink::4olimar::4metaknight:
(Mid-Low):4peach::4bowser:
(Low):4bowserjr::4littlemac:
D :
(High):4shulk::4miibrawl::4palutena:
(Mid):4gaw::4link::4drmario:
(Low):4miigun::4jigglypuff:

E :
(High):4robinm: :4falco::4dk::4kirby:
(Mid-High):4wiifit::4myfriends: :4ganondorf::4samus:
(Mid-Low):4zelda::4charizard::4marth:
(Low):4lucina::4miisword:

Rules:
WiiU Singles
Items off
Stages: Final Destination, Battlefield, Smashville, Omega Stages
2 stocks 6 minutes
Miis are default size, 1111 set.
(Not written in article, but customs off)

Voting:
Each of the 9 SHI-G members ranked each character as A-E, with A=10, B=8, C=7, D=6, and E=5. After the average of was taken, any character with an average score of >9=A, >8=B, >7=C, >6=D, and >5=E. Every member gets 2 votes for S tier; only a character with all members voting for it to be S-tier gets promoted to S.

S Tier Voting:
Diddy got the 9 votes needed to retain S-tier status. Shiek had 4 votes, while Sonic had 2.

Some Data:
The character with the biggest rise in score was Olimar, with +1.67, jumping from E tier to C tier. He had success at Apex and had his Pikmin AI buffed. Mario was a close second, with +1.62.
The character the wost fall was Lucario, with -1.82. The second largest drop was Jigglypuff with -0.8.
Mario, Captain Falcon, and Ness had the largest standard deviation with 0.994. (I think it's probably because they were debating between A tier which is worth 10 and B tier which is worth 8)

Quote from Tenuhe:
"In voting, I imagined a tier list where B and above is a placement where you can win tournaments straight-forwardly, C needs amazing player skill or gimmicky tactics to attempt to win a tournament, and anything D and below has their limit capped at top 8."
Am I the only one who actually like this tier list ? I dunno, it's just a tier list, but I found it more interresting.
But Diddy is still the best for people, even in Japan.

Different culture, yet same top tier character. How ironic.
 
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#35
Good to see that Palutena is finally getting some love. However, I'm a bit curious about how DDD got up so high, and how Mario is considered better than Luigi.
 

stancosmos

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Messages
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#37
https://game8.jp/matome/22362
Please do not post comments hating on the tier list just because you dislike the placement of a character.

S :
:4diddy:
A :
(High):4sheik: :4yoshi: :4sonic::rosalina:
(Mid):4wario: :4villager::4zss:
(Low):4fox:

B :
(High):4ness::4falcon::4mario:
(Mid):4pikachu: :4luigi::4rob::4megaman:
(Low):4pacman::4pit::4duckhunt:

C :
(High):4darkpit::4lucario::4greninja:
(Mid-High):4dedede::4tlink::4olimar::4metaknight:
(Mid-Low):4peach::4bowser:
(Low):4bowserjr::4littlemac:
D :
(High):4shulk::4miibrawl::4palutena:
(Mid):4gaw::4link::4drmario:
(Low):4miigun::4jigglypuff:

E :
(High):4robinm: :4falco::4dk::4kirby:
(Mid-High):4wiifit::4myfriends: :4ganondorf::4samus:
(Mid-Low):4zelda::4charizard::4marth:
(Low):4lucina::4miisword:

Rules:
WiiU Singles
Items off
Stages: Final Destination, Battlefield, Smashville, Omega Stages
2 stocks 6 minutes
Miis are default size, 1111 set.
(Not written in article, but customs off)

Voting:
Each of the 9 SHI-G members ranked each character as A-E, with A=10, B=8, C=7, D=6, and E=5. After the average of was taken, any character with an average score of >9=A, >8=B, >7=C, >6=D, and >5=E. Every member gets 2 votes for S tier; only a character with all members voting for it to be S-tier gets promoted to S.

S Tier Voting:
Diddy got the 9 votes needed to retain S-tier status. Shiek had 4 votes, while Sonic had 2.

Some Data:
The character with the biggest rise in score was Olimar, with +1.67, jumping from E tier to C tier. He had success at Apex and had his Pikmin AI buffed. Mario was a close second, with +1.62.
The character the wost fall was Lucario, with -1.82. The second largest drop was Jigglypuff with -0.8.
Mario, Captain Falcon, and Ness had the largest standard deviation with 0.994. (I think it's probably because they were debating between A tier which is worth 10 and B tier which is worth 8)

Quote from Tenuhe:
"In voting, I imagined a tier list where B and above is a placement where you can win tournaments straight-forwardly, C needs amazing player skill or gimmicky tactics to attempt to win a tournament, and anything D and below has their limit capped at top 8."
"D or below has their limit capped at top 8"
Didn't Dapuffster's mii brawler come in 2nd against Zero in the biggest online tournament ever held?
 

Jucchan

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#40
"D or below has their limit capped at top 8"
Didn't Dapuffster's mii brawler come in 2nd against Zero in the biggest online tournament ever held?
This tier list uses 1111 miis. I'm pretty sure Dapuffster was using Helicopter Kick and other customs. In the last Japanese tier list with customs for miis Brawler was top tier. I'm pretty sure they changed to 1111 because of Apex.
 
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