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I lol'd.
My only problem is that people like you who so adamantly support items would rather stroll in and attempt to change the current tournament community than go out and actually prove that item tournaments would be popular and worthwhile. The competitive community, as of right now, avoids items. We do not like them. We do not like the randomness of them. That's just the way things are. You complain about us tourney players spreading our evil influence over the WiFi matches... wait, wouldn't that mean it is fun for everyone? No one is forced to play by our rules. So, either way, you really have nothing to worry about. If items are so cool, play with items. We are unopposed to that. However, stop trying to dictate to us how we "remove a game mechanic" when all we're doing is making the matches 100% fair.
Oh wow. You're not even trying.
No one said they take the fun out of the game on a universal level. It comes down to personal opinion, and the reason there are no items in tournaments is it makes the competition depend more on the actual game, ie : controlling your character and actually knowing how to space properly and combo and knowing 10000 little things you're probably too lazy to learn, rather than getting a lucky item that wins you a free stock.
nah, Melee 2.0 isn't your term. Some one else coined it long before your poser *** did, and it doesn't mean what you just wrote. It was before we knew how the gameplay mechanics worked for brawl, and people who wanted wavedashing or other such fun things back in the game were insulted frequently using phrase ''Oh you just want Melee 2.0, this is brawl'' It has to do with gameplay, not tournament rules. Stop being a ****ing idiot.
First of all, could you explain how your bias point is proved by keeping some of the same rules from the melee tourney scene?
True, but johnning ( complaining) about an explosive barrel that fell on your head and lost you an extra 500$ you would have had if you won the set makes a lot more sense to me still than johning about messing up.
Thatd be brilliant. Who the heck moves quickly with a giant hammer anyway?
True but it might be possible to shut off explosive crates or similar especially, and even with them it seems to be a rare thing to happen. Do they actually explode from just hitting you? or do you need to hit it accidently?
Yeah im just arguing for the sake of the tournament style im used to mostly. I find that in items matches the results only change slightly, a better player with items can dominate even harder.
Yeah, but you could also be extremely unlucky and have it happen to only you and not him. Being extremely unlucky shouldn't determine a test of skill.
Well with that kind of bad luck I'd be suprised they made it to the tournament alive
Not to the person who gets owned by the items. I wouldn't be too amused. I would like flip out and like time travel or something and punch Jesus.
Depends on your attitude with competive gaming, probably a good thing you aren't playing with items on then. Besides relax you sound like you think im personally attacking you for some reason. If that's the case Sorry wasn't my intention.
But you overlook the fact that it does happen. You speak like these things almost never happen, but the fact is that it happens a lot. I was on the receiving end of those "9 tails in a row" recently. I clearly outclassed my opponent, but he won because I suffered three explosions. Balance would only be achieved in a 99-stock match.Well with that kind of bad luck I'd be suprised they made it to the tournament alive
But statistically speaking that should be very unlikely to happen. Still point taken, and to see that happen would almost be worth paying for.
Actually you are overlooking the idea. It adds another layer of positioning and control. Yes smash already has a lot of positioning and control in high level and this still exists when items are put in. However, items can shift the focus on certain percentages. Lets say your opponent is at a low percent, and you know the items on will give you about a 80% chance of getting an item you want to do a good combo. You might want to defend the next item spawn point instead of trying to stay center stage or being campy near the edges. It shifts the focus of the gameplay temporarily, which makes them have an important function in the overall method of zoning what areas.
It is usually better to pick up the item. I will readily admit that it usually is (especially in melee), but sometimes it isn't always the case.
Well yeah, when you have an item you swap a few of your A attacks for other A attacks... isn't that... the point? But it isn't always best to use the items. Some characters actually lose something from items though. Marth is a good case of this. When he picks up some items he loses his forward smash. So often he would just want to use items for baiting or zoning. Usually it is good to use it, but there are still cases when it would be better not to.
Well now you are just saying that because it lowers the need for tech skill is one of the reasons it should be removed. In my opinion, I think that is stupid. Much like people who want to ban wobbling because they think it is too easy to perform compared to other things of the same effectiveness. It just doesn't hold up to many people... this is not a point. Difficulty should not be an issue hear unless it becomes increasingly difficult to escape something.
I understand your point, but in terms of adding depth nothing really happens. An item spawn will always be the highest priority of control because the payoff is much higher than any other zone on the map. Therefor, both players will simply fight for the item spawn instead of say, beneath the fin on Cornaria. In other words, its the same exact thing, except your simply fighting for a different area, and yes, you may need to move around, but that also already exists if you look at levels like brinstar, where some moments you want to control beneath lower right platform, and other time you want to cover center top platform. All I'm saying is that items don't add to positioning, at least not enough to warrant them being used.
You missed my point. The ability to catch items is often touted as one of the reasons that they add depth to play, because some actually think it is hard to do. The reality is that catching items is easy, and doesn't add much in terms of technical depth.
I never attempted to prove why items should be removed. My post is about why removing items doesn't hinder the amount of depth in Smash because items at best add very minimal, thoughtless processes to the game.
Perhaps I didn't go over it in detail enough, so I hope this makes it more clear. Sorry if I sounded a bit disrespectful at first. I didn't mean to.Personally I don't think the concept of items make it less competitive. I actually think that last hope thing is a problem being some items were just messed up in melee. You can actually think about items in a competitive fashion but it would make for a lot more memorization of ratios and timing of spawns and such. Even in important tournaments I say that you could have items if everyone knew how to prepare (not with melee because of certain factors, but the concept of items). I don't think item matches are funner personally, especially in melee... I just think there is more to it, but some item factors were just way too flawed.
I don't think anyone disagrees with that. Tournaments are the topic of discussion here...
Buzz already mentioned this threat was about tournament play. As for at home, ever consider the fact some people just don't like items, regardless of whether they win or lose?
Well I thought I was clear by saying things like should and statistically speaking, I am avoiding to say it is or that it clearly is, because my experience with it is very limited. I am just saying this out of logic and common sense, and if it really happens alot or not in the game I can't say.
Allow me to speak on behalf of those who don't speak nerd. He said, "Blah blah blah blah!"
It cracks me up seeing item supporters throw this comment out there. If you people are truly "pro", you'd know how to survive without your CRUTCH.
Heh, items had a lot of problems in melee and 64. It is pretty clear why they are not used in tournaments for those games. I even have the problems when I get rid of a lot of the factors. Even though I turn off boxes, capsules, and barrels when I play on Yoshi Story I still end up having exploding eggs spawn during someone's attack and killing them. Doesn't matter how "pro" you are, if an exploding object spawns over you during your attack it cannot be avoided. Plus, many people do not think items are fun in the long term and even I find most of the items to not be fun or skill based what so ever. Funny enough, most of the people I know don't play with items... and they don't even go to tournaments.
Even if other items are heavily considered I feel pretty safe in saying smash balls will be. They add an interesting dynamic that is much more controlled and part of the game than other items. Heck, even Dylan considers the use of it in tournaments!
I love you buzz. QFT!
