Items Deserve Consideration for Brawl Tourney Standards

[Sliq]

Well that is a bit harsh. Just because we like different things does not make us foolish. Regardless of whether you have tried both.

When I played "casually," I thought a bunch of ******** ****, just like you (not to say what you think is ********, but it is ill informed due to lack of extensive experience).

I thought Kirby was good, Link's spin attack was cheap, Marth was cheap, Sheik was cheap, etc. I look back and think, "WTF was I thinking?"

 

[flyinfilipino]

I thought Kirby was good, Link's spin attack was cheap, Marth was cheap, Sheik was cheap, etc. I look back and think, "WTF was I thinking?"

Weird, I never thought any of that.

 

[E-Z-MONEY]

When I played "casually," I thought a bunch of ******** ****, just like you (not to say what you think is ********, but it is ill informed due to lack of extensive experience).

I thought Kirby was good, Link's spin attack was cheap, Marth was cheap, Sheik was cheap, etc. I look back and think, "WTF was I thinking?"

That is still a bit harsh. Thinking things are cheap is stupid but liking items is not. Thinking they should be in every match regardless of what anyone else thinks or facts that prove otherwise is stupid but there is nothing wrong with liking htem or thinking they are fun and/or exciting.

 

[2.72]

When I played "casually," I thought a bunch of ******** ****, just like you (not to say what you think is ********, but it is ill informed due to lack of extensive experience).

I thought Kirby was good, Link's spin attack was cheap, Marth was cheap, Sheik was cheap, etc. I look back and think, "WTF was I thinking?"

Heh, I used to think that Falco's lasers were only mildly useful.

Wow, was I ever wrong...

 

[InvincibleAgent]

I thought Kirby was good

Kirby? Good? Maybe in Smash 64...

 

[Erimir]

It's funny how no one [who supports items] tried to counter my argument of the resources needed to actually make it to the tournament [i.e. time and money]. I'm going to assume I am right.

Well, that's probably because it's not really much of an argument. It points out that having the winner be determined by skill is important for high stakes matches. Nobody is debating that.

The question is whether items can be used and be fair at the same time, not whether fairness is important.

Also, I kinda feel like Smash balls would have to be considered separately. They have some distinctions between them and other items - for one, their effect is unique by character, and for another, unlike a regular item, they don't just fall into your hands, so there's more likely to be a fight for the smash ball.

But it does seem to me that since they're so powerful, and the power varies widely, they probably won't be used in tournaments, for the same reason I don't think there's any chance of bombombs being used in tourneys. But maybe they could be.

But I'm basically ignoring them for the purpose of this discussion.

 

[Team Giza]

Items can be compatible with competitive play if you limit them properly. They do not add enough luck based actions to decide a 4 stock match. Melee had lots of problems with items, and it takes action replay to actually fix it to a decent point. It seems that Brawl has fixed a lot of the problems with made items in melee pretty much unusable in tournaments. Many of the higher up competitive players are ready to evolve with the game... so maybe some of you should as well. All the topic is saying is that items should be considered, and since there have been changes made to them... yes, of coarse they should be considered. But I will tell you this right now... items in tournament Brawl will be limited. There is no escaping that. Some items are just going to be obviously overpowered, game breaking, and will need to be banned in order to keep it fair play.

I definitely want items in Brawl tournaments. I don't care about all tournaments but I want to see them in more tournaments then just the ones that I will be running. But you item supporters are going to have to step up a bit and start going to, and hosting, these tournament on the norm. If you are going to complain about the way that people play in tournaments, you best go to the tournaments that follow what you wanted.
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Now to the people who think that they can beat tournament pros if items were on. Now... I understand were you are coming from. You think that since you understand items better you will be able to use them more efficiently and be able to even the score against the Pro's ability to use the character better with advance tactics. But... you are wrong. Unless you are able to do decently against a Pro without items, which I highly doubt many of you could, then you won't be able to beat them with items on. And below is my reasoning on it,

The match starts with no items on screen. This gives the Pro player at least 8 seconds before the first item appears, it gives them more than enough time to start putting pressure on your movement and begin to control more space than you.
When the first finally appears, odds are that it will not appear in the place that your opponent has pushed you into. You won't have many options, and the Pro will end up getting the item first and he can choose to throw it off the edge or use it against you.
Lets say it does appear in front of you. You are still being pressured by the Pro players attacks. Most items cannot be grabbed right away either and that time will give the Pro player a chance to react and stop you from obtaining the item.
You will probably end up getting a few items here and there, but the Pro player will be able to limit your options enough to make it not matter much.
Since the Pro is controlling more space and limiting your options when there are no items around, they will have the better chance of getting the item.

Do not say that you think you can beat a pro player with items on unless you have actually gone to a tournament before and did relatively decently. Because if you aren't able to do well without items on then you aren't gonna do much better against them with items on.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Team Giza's post wins.

 

[Deleted member]

I agree with Team Giza. Items should be allowed. At the very least turn off items deemed unfair, and have everything else on very low or something.

 

[yoshi_fan]

I want to say: in the demo, the explosive boxes have a fire sign. So they are identificable now

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I want to say: in the demo, the explosive boxes have a fire sign. So they are identificable now

Well, recognizing them wasn't necessarily the problem before. It was unfair how they could spawn while executing a move. Undeserved KOs FTL.

 

[5150]

if you dont understand that items are not good for competitive play then dont pretend you are above the age of 13

 

[Team Giza]

I want to say: in the demo, the explosive boxes have a fire sign. So they are identificable now

... well... its not the fact that they are marked that is the big deal. It is the fact that they can come out of capsules and other boxes. This would mean that they are probably an item. So if they have the same issues as in Melee we can just turn them off. If they cannot be turned off and they suffer from the same stuff that exploding boxes caused in melee... then I doubt items will last long in brawl tournaments.

 

[tutata]

Look man if u wanna have items make your own tourney with items. I hate getting hit by dum stuff that is not part of a char or loosing by luck, i wanna win by skill and loose by skill. Long live tournament play with no items.

 

[F@lc0-san]

If anything, the Smash ball deserves a chance, as it can b beaten out of the oponent, say i'm up against Ken, I get the smash bal, you ca bet your behin d on it that he'll beat the crap out of me before I can even say "lol smashball"


He'll probably beat me up when it apears (Not that i'll stand a chance of 1 in a million against Ken, it was just an example)