mangodurban
Smash Journeyman
im glad we ended on laughter, see you later buddy!
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Is playing to win dead!?
- Thread starter Resident_Smash_Genius
- Start date
Resident_Smash_Genius
Smash Journeyman
Because the concept only applies to in-game mechanics.
You are bound by the rules of the tournament host. If he decides that a certain technique is unbalanced you can't use it. Case closed. You have the option to either try and win with another character or not go to that particular tournament. Its pretty simple.
Also chaingrabbing as the ice climbers (wobbling) is banned by some tournament hosts in Melee. Personally I think getting a free KO off of a grab is a bit ridiculous but thats just me.
Also chaingrabbing as the ice climbers (wobbling) is banned by some tournament hosts in Melee. Personally I think getting a free KO off of a grab is a bit ridiculous but thats just me.
Resident_Smash_Genius
Smash Journeyman
.... not likely, I think I'm gonna let you simmer down for a while, like, a couple of months before I smash against you. Anger management does wonders.
mangodurban
Smash Journeyman
im not angry bro, chill.
Time2Brawl
Smash Cadet
If chain-grabbing is illegal, don't chain grab. If you can't adapt, that's your problem.
Brightside6382
Smash Lord
lol this shouldn't be banned at all. If wobbling was allowed in melee (which was much easier) chaingrabbing should be allowed in brawl (which is harder)
K, in my eyes SSBB was not meant to be competitive... Heck niether was the original, its about chossing your fav nintendo character and kicking your friends ***. Here's what I pull out of competitive play strategy=spam, and anyone can beat you just my mashing buttons or quote unquote "getting lucky".
Take a look at this review... http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art.../4845-Zero-Punctuation-Super-Smash-Bros-Brawl. most of it talks about nintendo as a company but there is a brief moment that talks about how studying all aspects of the game will get you no where. I agree with his review.
Take a look at this review... http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art.../4845-Zero-Punctuation-Super-Smash-Bros-Brawl. most of it talks about nintendo as a company but there is a brief moment that talks about how studying all aspects of the game will get you no where. I agree with his review.
No he's wrong here. If you're a better player you'll win. Yatzee was likely playing with items on in random stages with very low skilled people. If I play a top player 10 times I am going to lost 10 times no matter how lucky I get.
Yeah, that Yatzee review was full of inaccuracies and hypocrisy. Oh, he likes Condemned, but doesn't like Smash Bros. Yet because I like Smash Bros. (yes, I'm that guy) and I choose to play the game and to improve I'm somehow a fanboy?...
... I mean, what exactly does it take to render you a fanboy? Just enjoying a game? If that's the case then he is a Condemned fanboy, or a Half-Life fanboy etc. etc...
... He states that he doesn't want to play through single player to unlock stuff... Well he doesn't have to does he? For a start, you can play through Subspace with two of you...
... Or, you can unlock the stuff via multi-player...
... But you gotta spend time on the game... Boo Hoo.
Why knock a game when you can't even be bothered to give it a chance?...
... Poor review.
... I mean, what exactly does it take to render you a fanboy? Just enjoying a game? If that's the case then he is a Condemned fanboy, or a Half-Life fanboy etc. etc...
... He states that he doesn't want to play through single player to unlock stuff... Well he doesn't have to does he? For a start, you can play through Subspace with two of you...
... Or, you can unlock the stuff via multi-player...
... But you gotta spend time on the game... Boo Hoo.
Why knock a game when you can't even be bothered to give it a chance?...
... Poor review.
daytimeninja
Smash Apprentice
That does suck...
Maybe just kick *** without chaingrabbing? Can't really help you there man, if they complain about something like that, then they're just mad because they can't do anything against it. Maybe talk to the guy and see if you can talk him out of unbanning by explaining it's part of the game.
Try to tell him no other tournament organizers have banned it...
Maybe just kick *** without chaingrabbing? Can't really help you there man, if they complain about something like that, then they're just mad because they can't do anything against it. Maybe talk to the guy and see if you can talk him out of unbanning by explaining it's part of the game.
Try to tell him no other tournament organizers have banned it...
NES n00b
Smash Master
Man, so much scrubbiness on the topic and local tourney. Don't go to those kind of tournies as they will have people like that.
Why did you post it on the Brawl General discussion? All it would happen is someone like SmashChu would go like "lol tourney***, QQ more, Melee 2.0, get a life."
Why did you post it on the Brawl General discussion? All it would happen is someone like SmashChu would go like "lol tourney***, QQ more, Melee 2.0, get a life."
Mann
Smash Ace
Argument will not work. Not every tournament/player is talked about.
If you can contact them, you can lead them towards this thread. You can explain why it shouldn't be banned, and that people should suck it up and learn how to not be chain grabbed.
All the people saying he is a scrub for ChainGrabbing to win, should shut up. Was chain grabbing in Melee banned at all tournaments? How about drill shining? Super wave dash with Samus? I don't see anything wrong in using something that you have learned and practiced to do. Why should a technique that can be done by almost any player if they practiced it, and can be worked around, should affect one person?
Yahtzee is more comedy than an actual review and the review was aimed towards casual players. Basically he is expected to just ***** about games in a humorous manned. By the way I agree with him entirely on Sonic and Snake being unlockable. When you make that big of a deal about it people shouldn't have to play for like five hours before they're unlocked.
When the majority can pull it off flawlessly, theres gonna be a problem. But like someone said, Nana has to be with Popo for it to work, so as long as you stay aggressive enough, they'll always be desynced, cause Nana shields and dodges and stuff slower than Popo.
No?
No?
Maybe not. But the real issue I take with this review (because it is a review.. When it's a game he's interested in and he believes is good he doesn't slag it off just because it's what he's paid to do) Is that he couldn't be bothered with it from the start.
He had one evening to play the game...
... And as he obviously hadn't played Melee (he didn't know who Marth was), so is that any amount of time to do an actual fair review? I bet he spent more than 10 hours on Condemned 2. How can anyone pick up Smash Bros. from scratch and expect to be competent at the game in one drunken Vodka fuelled evening?
Basically he insulted the whole fighting game community by insinuating that they are all fanboys...
He insults anyone that wishes to spend any amount of time trying to improve at any kind of game...
... Which I'm sure includes himself.
If I was interested in say, tennis. Would I be classed as a supposed fanboy because I trained to be a better tennis player? Or I sought out better tennis players as competition and a means to improve my game?...
... Basically it boils down to this...
... If you so much as enjoy a game, and wish to become good at it you are a fanboy.
God, whatever happened to just being a plain old fan?
So there are two types of gamers now are there...
Casuals and fanboys.
I just think with this one and a few others, that Yahtzee was being an arrogant, ignorant hypocritical bell-end...
... And he wasn't funny this time.
Nybb
Smash Journeyman
Resident_Smash_Genius said:
Resident_Smash_Genius said:
Irony FTL?Resident_Smash_Genius said:
OP kind of fails at this one. I'm going to try to avoid judging your Smash skills, but...seriously dude, nobody cares. Tourney hosts get to make the rules, and if you don't like them, either don't play in them, or deal with it. If you are such a good Smasher, then you should still be able to win. Then after you still win even following their rules, then you can start complaining to them and saying,'look I won without that "cheap" technique, maybe it's not so cheap after all.'
Regarding chaingrabs:
IMO, IC infinites are actually pretty gay and I would try to ban them if I ever hosted a tourney, at least until somebody shows me a way to beat them other than "don't get grabbed." Asking somebody to not get grabbed is ridiculous in Brawl. How do you approach anybody or do any moves other than projectiles against ICs now? And don't even try to label me as a guy that's just mad that he can't do the technique; I definitely can do DDD chaingrabs and can do IC infinites with some degree of success. I learned them to see if they really were as good as I had heard, and it turns out that they are.
Calixto
Smash Apprentice
This really comes down to what exactly you're talking about,
Some IC chaingrabs are fine. You can (ideally) DI out of them at some higher percents, and are also difficult to do.
The IC infinites are (in my opinion) unfair. After a certain point, after learning the metagame and the characters played in your area, you just have to practice against a few select characters and their weights and how to infinite them, and then just cheese a win.
Some IC chaingrabs are fine. You can (ideally) DI out of them at some higher percents, and are also difficult to do.
The IC infinites are (in my opinion) unfair. After a certain point, after learning the metagame and the characters played in your area, you just have to practice against a few select characters and their weights and how to infinite them, and then just cheese a win.
DragonRider-ofSmashBros
Smash Apprentice
This thread started with a question about whether or not competition is dead or not and evolved into the exact definition of scrub and analyzing IC's chaingrab... interesting.
Anyways I don't think competition is dead, it's just that people don't like to lose, so they will destroy everything in their path so that they can in order to win or even just do better overall. So it's not dead, its just a heck a lot whinier
Anyways I don't think competition is dead, it's just that people don't like to lose, so they will destroy everything in their path so that they can in order to win or even just do better overall. So it's not dead, its just a heck a lot whinier
In response to your topic and your post; playing to win isnt dead, it never really existed in smash.
People have ALWAYS, ALWAYS griped about what wins in smash. Is it dumb? Heck yes it's dumb.
People just do not know what all is out there in everything. Especially new people who only understand what they and their friends do at their house.
_
So to answer your question again.
Playing to win never existed in smash, too many people complain about it.
Marie_54
Smash Ace
Wow... Just wow... Well i guess all the pros are off playing melee.*shot*
No really, just give it some time and more decent people will come and they will have to un-ban it... Many of the decent and good players are still whinning about there being no wave dashing and L-canceling...
Kind of off topic-
I remember once when i had a good internet connection i ko'ed some Ike by using dash throws with Sonic... Its too bad brawl has such a bad online system... I just love the fact that i can't hear those people whine...
edited for clarity, I am against the banning.
No really, just give it some time and more decent people will come and they will have to un-ban it... Many of the decent and good players are still whinning about there being no wave dashing and L-canceling...
Kind of off topic-
I remember once when i had a good internet connection i ko'ed some Ike by using dash throws with Sonic... Its too bad brawl has such a bad online system... I just love the fact that i can't hear those people whine...
edited for clarity, I am against the banning.
Resident_Smash_Genius
Smash Journeyman
As I said, the caps lock was for clarity.
People responded - they must care a little. I also wondered what people thought about the banning. Clearly, everyone seems to be split.
IC's grabs have no sexual orientation, therefore it would be in your best interest to not label them as such. I doubt they're "happy" either. -.-
As for dealing with them... I'm sure someone will figure it out.
It would be in your best interest not to open that subject.
You want TWO stupid arguments going on at once?
TengenToppaDrill
Smash Apprentice
You seem to get shot alot
.On Topic: I'm perfectly fine with chain grabbing until it passes a certain percentage. Then it's just exploitation and deserves to be sent to the rubbish bin. Also, I know what I'm talking about. I have already perfected unescapable chain graps (to some extent).
hey look, he posts in green, he must be important.
TengenToppaDrill
Smash Apprentice
ElSpaniard
Smash Cadet
u have done nothing wrong, chain grab those idiots to death.
If you completely rely on chaingrabbing (not saying you do) then adapt and find something else that's effective. Adapting is probably one of the most important things in competitive smash imo. But then again, I'm only a kid, what do I know? lol 
Man, I hate when moves get banned. Banning stages, items is one thing, but banning techniques is lame as hell. Especially since you have to be doing the move right every step of the way to pull it off, it's not a glitch like falling through the level or something. How would banning chain grabs work? "If you do more than 3 concecutive grabs, then you gotta let him go or else you will be DQ'd."? Then what're you supposed to do, take the punishment for letting them go?
Banning a characters techniques is annoying because it's like nerfing a character. The simple answer to the IC's issue is don't get grabbed. Nothing scrubby about playing to win.
I would seriously rather my favorite character get banned then have to tip toe carefully around not to disrupt the gentle balance of the game because I don't want to waste my time maining a character that I cannot use to it's full potential.
I can understand banning severe stalling tactics because chasing a flying character around for 7 minutes while they hide under the level is annoying to say the least (although though there's a lot of grey area in that too), but banning an aggressive technique in a game that is already being criticized for not having enough aggressive moves just boggles me.
Banning a characters techniques is annoying because it's like nerfing a character. The simple answer to the IC's issue is don't get grabbed. Nothing scrubby about playing to win.
I would seriously rather my favorite character get banned then have to tip toe carefully around not to disrupt the gentle balance of the game because I don't want to waste my time maining a character that I cannot use to it's full potential.
I can understand banning severe stalling tactics because chasing a flying character around for 7 minutes while they hide under the level is annoying to say the least (although though there's a lot of grey area in that too), but banning an aggressive technique in a game that is already being criticized for not having enough aggressive moves just boggles me.
Again he's meant as comedy and you probably shouldn't take him seriously as a reviewer.
He probably would've been funnier if it was a game you didn't like alot. But I enjoyed his bashing of Halo 3 so I can't really complain when one of my favorite games gets it.
mangodurban
Smash Journeyman
if it proves unbeatable it will be banned in most circles, my group has put a limit of 5 in a row with any character, chain grabbing is cool, but in excess its scrubbish and lets less than the best players win, because its inescapable when done correctly and to say it cant be perfected is dumb.
Statistics are also a big issue here. There's not going to be any real ones if people keep banning things so early. If people catch onto the Ice Climbers trick, and Ice Climbers were winning 90% of tournaments in every country, then maybe we'd have something, but people are banning things so soon that we don't have accurate statistics to see if there is a problem. Who knows, maybe somewhere along the line, people would notice the Ice Climbers winning, find other characters with moves to counter the Ice Climbers simple move, and the stats would slowly change as they're found.
If IC's chaingrab is banned this early, we will never truly know if there was a way out of it, because people will stop practicing finding ways around getting grabbed the first time. It's not a move that's so well evolved that everybody is using it, and Ice Climbers are not winning all tournaments using chaingrabs, so it makes no sense to ban something until every possibility has been exhausted by competent people.
If IC's chaingrab is banned this early, we will never truly know if there was a way out of it, because people will stop practicing finding ways around getting grabbed the first time. It's not a move that's so well evolved that everybody is using it, and Ice Climbers are not winning all tournaments using chaingrabs, so it makes no sense to ban something until every possibility has been exhausted by competent people.
When Yahtzee makes a review, he's basically either trying to convince you to get the game or avoid it, just like any other reviewer in the world. He presents it in a unique way, but he's still no different from say... IGN reviews in his overall goal.
Personally, I'm more upset over the fact he didn't bash it the same way he did Halo 3. I can understand if he doesn't care for the game.
I was hoping he'd rant about how insane a couple stages were (such as the Port Town cars killing so easily), how some final smashes were overpowered compared to others, and how tripping gets to even casual players. However, the fact he was forced to review it on top of the fact it's a series and genre he never cared for really shows in the fact he mostly chose either weak points (such as complaining that half the game's content has to be unlocked and points out the most annoying one as an example as if it were the norm), or completely false points (such as the characters being small and impossible to keep track of, or that any random button-masher is able to beat even the most experienced player).
Yes, because those two topics are completely transitive.
SirroMinus1
SiNiStEr MiNiStEr
So do that mean you play to win?
RedMage8BT
Smash Lord
The theme of this discussion is reliance on a single aspect of the gameplay in order to win. If I'm a casual player who can usually win if I get possession of the Star Rod (because I'm very good with the Star Rod for some odd reason), I still need to learn to give it up in order to fight competitively.
A similar principle applies here (I'm not saying the situation is exactly the same).
Tetsuro
Smash Cadet
I am somewhat on the fence on this issue. While I disagree with banning a move, I also agree that you should have to master more than just an infinite in order to win.
The best thing to do in my opinion would be do switch it up a little so that you don't get the move banned in the first place.
Since in your particular case it is already banned, you could look at this as an opportunity to improve your game. Master new techniques and strategies then stick it to all those who complained.
The best thing to do in my opinion would be do switch it up a little so that you don't get the move banned in the first place.
Since in your particular case it is already banned, you could look at this as an opportunity to improve your game. Master new techniques and strategies then stick it to all those who complained.
Demon King
Smash Rookie
I agree with the poster above on this issue.
Banning a move or strategy entirely shouldn't be done on a whim just because one player knows how to use it well, but I can understand the reason behind it. Seriously, how fun would it be for other players if all their opponent is doing is spamming one attack? And if you need to rely on that chaingrab (or any one type of attack) so much in order to win, you are nothing but a one-trick pony. A winner, maybe, but not someone I would necessarily respect as an opponent.
I say, stop whining and beat the hell out of the competition without using that chaingrab and rub it in their faces.
Banning a move or strategy entirely shouldn't be done on a whim just because one player knows how to use it well, but I can understand the reason behind it. Seriously, how fun would it be for other players if all their opponent is doing is spamming one attack? And if you need to rely on that chaingrab (or any one type of attack) so much in order to win, you are nothing but a one-trick pony. A winner, maybe, but not someone I would necessarily respect as an opponent.
I say, stop whining and beat the hell out of the competition without using that chaingrab and rub it in their faces.
Yes, because the reliance on a completely random event happening is comparable to the reliance on ability and skill.