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Is playing to win dead!?

Resident_Smash_Genius

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
280
Location
Rochester, Michigan
Ok, so I hope you guys don't mind reading this story... it shouldn't be all that long...

So yesterday night I went to a local tournament. 32 people, brackets, etc etc. Now, I've been to this place before, it's a park house in Rochester Michigan that's been holding tournaments for melee for several years now. I've never encountered any problems there before... until now.

The culprit? Brawl. Now before you say anything, I love Brawl. I adore it, I worship it with the same devotion that I held to melee.

But something has happened to the competitive scene... IT SUCKS. No really, it's bloody terrible. Why?

Ok, I won first place, (so what no one wants to hear that), and I was using Ice Climbers. Yeah, I chain grabbed like mad. No they couldn't DI out of it. Yes, there were a lot of easy matches for me. The worst part -- the chain grabs got banned. Yes, already got banned. I've never had a problem like this before... and... I'm so frustrated. The tourney organizer, a guy named Mike whom I've know forever said that too many people complained that it was unbalanced for tournament play. Unbalanced because those pathetic sobs couldn't figure it out? Now I'm out a main because too many people whined. This never would've happened with melee. Never. If you won, it's cause the other guy couldn't hack it, plain and simple.

I blame new people. I blame brawl. I need a new place in the Detroit area I can go.

*sigh* Has anyone else had problems with new tournament-goers?
 

RedMage8BT

Smash Lord
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Princess Peach's Castle
Dude, you could try playing Ice Climbers without chain grabbing. Seriously, if your entire strategy is based on a technique that, once you have them in it they can't escape, then you're a scrub, plain and simple.
 

Aleol

Smash Journeyman
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San Antonio
personally, being a casual smasher who's been to 2 or 3 tournaments, I think that these things should teach us lessons, not complain about them. I've learned a lot in those 2-3 tournaments. It's pretty unfair that they don't want to learn anything

although, the post above me makes a lot of sense. The whole thing is, not everyone can do it. It's something very difficult to pull off without practice
 

Resident_Smash_Genius

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Rochester, Michigan
Dude, you could try playing Ice Climbers without chain grabbing. Seriously, if your entire strategy is based on a technique that, once you have them in it they can't escape, then you're a scrub, plain and simple.
I PLAY TO WIN. Let me repeat that. I PLAY TO WIN. That means, if my strategy involves chaining you to death so be it. It'd be no different from pit launching his side b until you were dead or DDD chaining you on a flat stage.

Also, I use other attacks. I can play other characters... you're missing the point and worse, you're a scrub for not realizing that playing to win is what it's all about.
 

Resident_Smash_Genius

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Messages
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Rochester, Michigan
personally, being a casual smasher who's been to 2 or 3 tournaments, I think that these things should teach us lessons, not complain about them. I've learned a lot in those 2-3 tournaments.

although, the post above me makes a lot of sense. The whole thing is, not everyone can do it. It's something very difficult to pull off without practice
Thank you for understanding. I guess I'd rather have people learn from the experience instead of just yelling the smash equivalent of "Witch! Witch! Burn it!"
 

Illussionary

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ATL, Georgia
Dude, you could try playing Ice Climbers without chain grabbing. Seriously, if your entire strategy is based on a technique that, once you have them in it they can't escape, then you're a scrub, plain and simple.
I highly agree with this, however restricting techs like this isn't right. When I host tournaments if its legal, it goes, no if and or buts about it.
 

Zankoku

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Wait, Rochester? Why did I never hear about this? Hook me up, I don't want to have to keep driving an hour to find any Smash tournaments.

Also, I agree with ICs chaingrabs not getting banned - either don't get grabbed, or kill Nana.
 

Resident_Smash_Genius

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
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Location
Rochester, Michigan
Wait, Rochester? Why did I never hear about this? Hook me up, I don't want to have to keep driving an hour to find any Smash tournaments.

Also, I agree with ICs chaingrabs not getting banned - either don't get grabbed, or kill Nana.
OH HOLY COW! Troy! Youre like 5 minutes away! Yeah, it's in the park. That really nice building that you can rent out grad parties and stuff. They hold tournaments there once or twice a month almost always on fridays.
 

Pabs

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 23, 2007
Messages
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NYC
Stuff like that will only be banned in a few places, then unbanned as people figure it out or realize how dumb it is to ban it. In my first smash melee tourney like 6 years ago, there was a rule preventing you from switching characters (the meta game was barely developed, and counter picking probably wouldn't have made too much of a difference anyways), and that isn't the case anymore for obvious reasons. Just give it time.
 

RedMage8BT

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I PLAY TO WIN. Let me repeat that. I PLAY TO WIN. That means, if my strategy involves chaining you to death so be it. It'd be no different from pit launching his side b until you were dead or DDD chaining you on a flat stage.

Also, I use other attacks. I can play other characters... you're missing the point and worse, you're a scrub for not realizing that playing to win is what it's all about.
I understand that you play to win, and I agree that it's a viable tactic.

The only thing I found absurd about your post is that you implied that you couldn't play Ice Climbers because you couldn't chain grab. If casuals can deal with giving up items, then you can deal with giving up chain grabbing. It doesn't seem like a big deal to me. You say you do other things, then why are you complaining? Chain grabbing is just one strategy out of many. If you're playing to win, and not just "finding the best way to win", then you can find other ways to win as well.
 

Resident_Smash_Genius

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I understand that you play to win, and I agree that it's a viable tactic.

The only thing I found absurd about your post is that you implied that you couldn't play Ice Climbers because you couldn't chain grab. If casuals can deal with giving up items, then you can deal with giving up chain grabbing. It doesn't seem like a big deal to me. You say you do other things, then why are you complaining? Chain grabbing is just one strategy out of many. If you're playing to win, and not just "finding the best way to win", then you can find other ways to win as well.
Yeah well... why should I? I guess that's not the best attitude but, if I found something I'm really good at that allows me to win, I should get to use it since it's part of the game.

Also, without the use of garbs entirely, I'm probably better off switching characters to someone with more options rather than dealing with a virtual handicap. Which... is why it's basically like losing a main.
 

Tristan_win

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Yeah well... why should I? I guess that's not the best attitude but, if I found something I'm really good at that allows me to win, I should get to use it since it's part of the game.

Also, without the use of garbs entirely, I'm probably better off switching characters to someone with more options rather than dealing with a virtual handicap. Which... is why it's basically like losing a main.
It would be completely ******** if Ice climber where banned completely from grabbing. What will most likely happen would be some type of limit is put into place like the Ice climber can only chain grab twice or something.

Sadly I can’t see any way of enforcing this rule without a referee of some sort watching over every single match that had Ice climbers in it. Worst yet this might open the door for other limiters like DDD chain grab.
 

kin3tic-c4jun-3

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Haha some people don't understand what playing to win is.

If Ice Climbers can chain grab to win, then DO it, you will win. Anyone who can't get out of it needs to find a better strategy.

Only if this person can prove that they can go to EVERY tournament with this technique, against EVERY character, and win EVERY TIME, against EVERY PERSON, THEN it is imbalanced.

The only thing I found absurd about your post is that you implied that you couldn't play Ice Climbers because you couldn't chain grab. If casuals can deal with giving up items, then you can deal with giving up chain grabbing. It doesn't seem like a big deal to me. You say you do other things, then why are you complaining? Chain grabbing is just one strategy out of many. If you're playing to win, and not just "finding the best way to win", then you can find other ways to win as well.
I doubt he coudn't play IC without it, but you're missing the point. The point is that the organization banned a move that allowed him to win. This is always a big deal. Under what grounds the organization did this exactly has yet to be explained.

Giving up random items is not the same as giving up a skilled technique, in any case.

And 'finding the best way to win' is the same thing as 'playing to win'. I will assume you are going to research 'playing to win' before making your next post, since it will save me the time of explaining it's vast concept.
 

Genghis Krahn

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Apr 24, 2008
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Winnipeg, MB
Yeah, that's rediculous. You can't ban a characters moves. If the character can do it then the character can do it! It's a technique. And sure, it's always a good idea to use more than one technique to win, but if the oppurtunity comes up for you to KO using chain grabbing, they'll say it was illegal? I don't get that.

I think the problem is not Brawl, but the fact that Brawl is quite well balanced, so if you're a good Smasher, you win. If you're bad, you lose. So now the only way for the unexperienced to win is to ban things that they can't do, rather than learn how to do it themselves.
 

Taymond

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While I agree that with the influx of new players, the "play to win" attitude is far less prominent, yes, I think you chose the worst example to make your point, lol.

ICs Chaingrabs are the only thing even somewhat seriously considered for banning at the moment, and it's reasonable to believe that some tournaments will opt to ban it, since it's still controversial. While most large tournaments will probably refrain from banning strategies, for the obvious reason that it's a bit silly to do so, you can't expect every venue to do the same. Wobbling was banned in many small tournaments and even a select couple big ones.

If a particular strategy is very controversial at the moment, and no apparent counter exists, it really shouldn't be all that surprising to see it banned occasionally. The majority of large tournaments will still probably not ban it, but some will, unfortunately. People who organize tournaments have every right to dictate how their tournaments are played. That's the same principle that lets us turn off items and ban large and random stages. It's frustrating, yes, but you are going to have to respect that right.
 

mangodurban

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Tennessee
the grab is infinite if done properly, i can do it every time and it should be banned. Its not skill, its cheap and only beatable if you "dont get grabbed".......dont get grabbed, are you kidding me, that sounds either impossible or..... completely boring. The technique is unbeatable and can be learned against all characters(if your talking about the same grab technique i think your talking about.) and will be banned. Ive spent countless hours perfecting the technique just to show its stupidity and un-beat-ability. It is unbeatable and simply decent video game player can perfect it, and if people like you keep doing it and winning tourny's, its going to get banned all around. I myself think it should be banned but as people will argue with me they will have to see for themselves. It is unbeatable once perfected and the only strat against it is to not get grabbed but come on, really, you have to be really good to not get grabbed at all, like really really really really really good. duh
 

kin3tic-c4jun-3

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People who organize tournaments have every right to dictate how their tournaments are played. That's the same principle that lets us turn off items and ban large and random stages. It's frustrating, yes, but you are going to have to respect that right.
I agree, but when the organization is making foolish decisions, I think it's our duty to try changing that decision. The banning of a character move that has yet to be proven as 'broken' should be challenged, by all means.
 

RedMage8BT

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Let's say I always win among my friends if we play on 75m because it's my best stage and I know how to take advantage of the hazards. Does that give me a right to complain when I go to a tournament and find out that 75m is banned?

I don't see a lot of difference, really.
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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Too many scrubs...

I'm off to bed.
Not a suitable argument to RedMage's point. I agree that the banning should certainly be challenged for now, but if the chain grab is proven to be inescapable, and it goes unbanned, then I foresee problems with the competitive scene (if Brawl has one) down the road.

I'm no tourney-goer, so tell my scrubby self if I'm wrong, but wouldn't every Brawl battle basically devolve into: Ice Climbers vs. Ice Climbers — "Who can grab the other first?"
 

Nuvia

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Sounds like you like hollow victories and can't play without using broken techniques.
 

Tom

Bulletproof Doublevoter
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OH HOLY COW! Troy! Youre like 5 minutes away! Yeah, it's in the park. That really nice building that you can rent out grad parties and stuff. They hold tournaments there once or twice a month almost always on fridays.
Well, see, now you have no more worries about not being able to place 1st because you weren't allowed to chaingrab. Now you won't get first because Ankoku and Fifth Column are going to show up. xD
 

Rebel581

Smash Champion
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College Park, MD
Sirlin said:
But there is a limit. There is a point when the bug becomes too much. In tournaments, bugs that turn the game off, or freeze it indefinitely, or remove one of the characters from the playfield permanently are banned. Bugs so extreme that they stop gameplay are considered unfair even by non-scrubs. As are techniques that can only be performed on, say, the one player side of the game. There are a few esoteric tricks in various fighting games that are side dependant---that can't be performed on the 2nd player side, for example.
If you're going to refer to playing to win, I think that the IC chain grab could be put under the category of removing a character from play. Infinites usually do that.

It's a gray area though, and shouldn't be banned at this point in the game, if ever. But this will be the same debate as wobbling.

End note, stop *****ing.
 

Zankoku

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Well, see, now you have no more worries about not being able to place 1st because you weren't allowed to chaingrab. Now you won't get first because Ankoku and Fifth Column are going to show up. xD
ROFL, I'm using this in my sig.
 

shadydentist

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Dude, you could try playing Ice Climbers without chain grabbing. Seriously, if your entire strategy is based on a technique that, once you have them in it they can't escape, then you're a scrub, plain and simple.
You're looking at this the wrong way. While its true that once in a chain grab, you can't escape but:

-Its hard to do.
-If Nana is at all separated, it won't work until higher percentages and good opponents will take advantage of it.

Ice climbers have a great grab. But getting off a grab against someone who is good at all is tough with ice climbers. They're not broken, the chain throw isn't broken, and theres no chance that every match will devolve into ICs vs ICs.

If you can't win against someone who only has one strategy, you're a scrub.
 

Vijin

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Some tournaments have a rule that you can only chaingrab up to a certain percent before it is considered stalling. Maybe that type of rule will become popular as time goes on.
 

Resident_Smash_Genius

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First: I made mistakes with the chain grabs. A lot of them. I've never seen anyone do it perfectly all the time. The weights of each character are different so the time is different.

Second: Stop telling me it's a "cheap technique". Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean you should say that. It took several days of practice just for me to learn how to do one of the grabs. There are a lot of them. They're difficult to do, and for crying out loud they're not impossible to avoid.

Third: If Ankoku and the really good people start showing up... I will lose but have a lot more fun playing.

Fourth: @RedMage8BT

Your logic is still flawed. A stage is not the same as an important character aspect.

Fifth (and finally) - If it is true that someone comes along who can pull a "perfect climber" and make it so that it's impossible in every way to escape then, yeah, it should be banned.

It shouldn't get banned if 30 people whine that it's unfair.
 

mangodurban

Smash Journeyman
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however, you won with it, many people who im sure were better at smash than you got beat by a scrub. Ive learned the techniques and I tell you it is cheap.
 

Resident_Smash_Genius

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however, you won with it, many people who im sure were better at smash than you got beat by a scrub. Ive learned the techniques and I tell you it is cheap.
How am I a scrub? A scrub is someone who calls techniques cheap, doesn't play to win and sucks at smash because he's unwilling to improve. You're sure they're better at smash than me? Really? Can you honestly make that assumption? What a fool.
 

UltiMario

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These words make others fail:
If I can do it without an Action replay, it was meant to be in the game.
If it was meant to be in the game, I'm allowed to use it.
 

mangodurban

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... dude, you have to chaingrab to win, you, sir are a scrub and if your not you just suck, "Yeah well... why should I? I guess that's not the best attitude but, if I found something I'm really good at that allows me to win, I should get to use it since it's part of the game. " that your good at? you cant di out of it, and you say its hard to do because it works diff for diff weighted characters so it shouldnt be banned. Do you really think that matters. Im already used to the techniqe, you can try to convince people who have no experience with this tech, however, i know of its scruby-ness, and if you have to do it to win, then you are a ****ty smash player, people like you are the reason it gets banned, now even if you did win that tourny, you did not win in my eyes because you did a cowardly, unbeatable (it IS unbeatable dude, ive spent way more time with it than you) to simply prove it stupidity, please take the time and become a real smash player, not sir grab alot.
 

Resident_Smash_Genius

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... dude, you have to chaingrab to win, you, sir are a scrub and if your not you just suck, "Yeah well... why should I? I guess that's not the best attitude but, if I found something I'm really good at that allows me to win, I should get to use it since it's part of the game. " that your good at? you cant di out of it, and you say its hard to do because it works diff for diff weighted characters so it shouldnt be banned. Do you really think that matters. Im already used to the techniqe, you can try to convince people who have no experience with this tech, however, i know of its scruby-ness, and if you have to do it to win, then you are a ****ty smash player, people like you are the reason it gets banned, now even if you did win that tourny, you did not win in my eyes because you did a cowardly, unbeatable (it IS unbeatable dude, ive spent way more time with it than you) to simply prove it stupidity, please take the time and become a real smash player, not sir grab alot.
Even though you have the typing skills of a fourth grader, I'll help you with this one.

"The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.

Now, everyone begins as a poor player—it takes time to learn a game to get to a point where you know what you’re doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or “learn” the game, one can become a top player. In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.

The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. Let’s take a fighting game off of which I’ve made my gaming career: Street Fighter.

In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.

You will not see a classic scrub throw his opponent five times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimizes his chances of winning? Here we’ve encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you—that’s cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that’s cheap, too. We’ve covered that one. If you block for fifty seconds doing no moves, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap. Street Fighter was just one example; I could have picked any competitive game at all.

Doing one move or sequence over and over and over is a tactic close to my heart that often elicits the call of the scrub. This goes right to the heart of the matter: why can the scrub not defeat something so obvious and telegraphed as a single move done over and over? Is he such a poor player that he can’t counter that move? And if the move is, for whatever reason, extremely difficult to counter, then wouldn’t I be a fool for not using that move? The first step in becoming a top player is the realization that playing to win means doing whatever most increases your chances of winning. That is true by definitionof playing to win. The game knows no rules of “honor” or of “cheapness.” The game only knows winning and losing.

A common call of the scrub is to cry that the kind of play in which one tries to win at all costs is “boring” or “not fun.” Who knows what objective the scrub has, but we know his objective is not truly to win. Yours is. Your objective is good and right and true, and let no one tell you otherwise. You have the power to dispatch those who would tell you otherwise, anyway. Simply beat them.

Let’s consider two groups of players: a group of good players and a group of scrubs. The scrubs will play “for fun” and not explore the extremities of the game. They won’t find the most effective tactics and abuse them mercilessly. The good players will. The good players will find incredibly overpowering tactics and patterns. As they play the game more, they’ll be forced to find counters to those tactics. The vast majority of tactics that at first appear unbeatable end up having counters, though they are often quite subtle and difficult to discover. Knowing the counter tactic prevents the other player from using his tactic, but he can then use a counter to your counter. You are now afraid to use your counter and the opponent can go back to sneaking in the original overpowering tactic. This concept will be covered in much more detail later.

The good players are reaching higher and higher levels of play. They found the “cheap stuff” and abused it. They know how to stop the cheap stuff. They know how to stop the other guy from stopping it so they can keep doing it. And as is quite common in competitive games, many new tactics will later be discovered that make the original cheap tactic look wholesome and fair. Often in fighting games, one character will have something so good it’s unfair. Fine, let him have that. As time goes on, it will be discovered that other characters have even more powerful and unfair tactics. Each player will attempt to steer the game in the direction of his own advantages, much how grandmaster chess players attempt to steer opponents into situations in which their opponents are weak.

Let’s return to the group of scrubs. They don’t know the first thing about all the depth I’ve been talking about. Their argument is basically that ignorantly mashing buttons with little regard to actual strategy is more “fun.” Superficially, their argument does at least look valid, since often their games will be more “wet and wild” than games between the experts, which are usually more controlled and refined. But any close examination will reveal that the experts are having a great deal of this “fun” on a higher level than the scrub can even imagine. Throwing together some circus act of a win isn’t nearly as satisfying as reading your opponent’s mind to such a degree that you can counter his every move, even his every counter.

Can you imagine what will happen when the two groups of players meet? The experts will absolutely destroy the scrubs with any number of tactics they’ve either never seen or never been truly forced to counter. This is because the scrubs have not been playing the same game. The experts were playing the actual game while the scrubs were playing their own homemade variant with restricting, unwritten rules.

The scrub has still more crutches. He talks a great deal about “skill” and how he has skill whereas other players—very much including the ones who beat him flat out—do not have skill. The confusion here is what “skill” actually is. In Street Fighter, scrubs often cling to combos as a measure of skill. A combo is a sequence of moves that is unblockable if the first move hits. Combos can be very elaborate and very difficult to pull off. But single moves can also take “skill,” according to the scrub. The “dragon punch” or “uppercut” in Street Fighter is performed by holding the joystick toward the opponent, then down, then diagonally down and toward as the player presses a punch button. This movement must be completed within a fraction of a second, and though there is leeway, it must be executed fairly accurately. Ask any scrub and they will tell you that a dragon punch is a “skill move.”
This should help clarify what it means to be a scrub.

It irritates me so much that you make silly assumptions.

I make this nice and big for you ok?

I DON'T HAVE TO USE CHAIN GRABS TO WIN. YOU'RE AN IDIOT FOR ASSUMING I HAVE TO. GO AWAY UNTIL YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A COMPETITIVE SMASH PLAYER.

ALSO LEARN HOW TO USE ENOUGH PUNCTUATION SO THAT PEOPLE KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
 

Dark Crimson

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
82
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Hanson, Massachusetts
Brawl was just released. Melee wasn't too heated when it first came out, even with all the pro 64ers who had it. Even if we all know how competitive it should be, and how much we should want to rend each other's flesh, it'll just take some time. Not everyone's gotten used to Brawl.
 

mangodurban

Smash Journeyman
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Mar 6, 2008
Messages
215
Location
Tennessee
dude, I will **** your ears off in smash, if you think im i noob your far far from the truth, and who gives a **** about grammar, are you a english teacher. But aside from your caps, you claim thats all you did at the torny so you know what, your a scrub. I will **** your head off in smash, ill send you my fc friday when i get my wii back and shut your scrubby mouth. You will regret calling me a noob and i hope you cry when I IC chaingrab you everytime. YOU SCRUB ****!
 

Resident_Smash_Genius

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
280
Location
Rochester, Michigan
dude, I will **** your ears off in smash, if you think im i noob your far far from the truth, and who gives a **** about grammar, are you a english teacher. But aside from your caps, you claim thats all you did at the torny so you know what, your a scrub. I will **** your head off in smash, ill send you my fc friday when i get my wii back and shut your scrubby mouth. You will regret calling me a noob and i hope you cry when I IC chaingrab you everytime. YOU SCRUB ****!
I have tears of laughter from this. No, I'm not an english teacher. I'm a physics major. I didn't call you a noob. I'm saying that playing to win is what it's all about, regardless of how "cheap" you think the move is.

It's not all I did at the tourney. Does that make you happy?

Calm down, it's just a game.
 

SmashChu

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 14, 2003
Messages
5,924
Location
Tampa FL
Ok, I won first place, (so what no one wants to hear that), and I was using Ice Climbers. Yeah, I chain grabbed like mad. No they couldn't DI out of it. Yes, there were a lot of easy matches for me. The worst part -- the chain grabs got banned. Yes, already got banned. I've never had a problem like this before... and... I'm so frustrated. The tourney organizer, a guy named Mike whom I've know forever said that too many people complained that it was unbalanced for tournament play. Unbalanced because those pathetic sobs couldn't figure it out? Now I'm out a main because too many people whined. This never would've happened with melee. Never. If you won, it's cause the other guy couldn't hack it, plain and simple.
It was a local tournament. Which means it was just for fun. As in most people haven't been corrupted by the idiocy of competitive play. Your just out of your elements.

And Play 2 Win is ******** anyhow. If I am able to use anything to win, why can't I unplug your controller or distract you.
 

Dark Crimson

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
82
Location
Hanson, Massachusetts
dude, I will **** your ears off in smash, if you think im i noob your far far from the truth, and who gives a **** about grammar, are you a english teacher. But aside from your caps, you claim thats all you did at the torny so you know what, your a scrub. I will **** your head off in smash, ill send you my fc friday when i get my wii back and shut your scrubby mouth. You will regret calling me a noob and i hope you cry when I IC chaingrab you everytime. YOU SCRUB ****!
BANHAMMAR GOGOGO
 
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