Is it possible to beat someone who knows advanced techniques?

[Jolteon]

crouch cancel > shine.

edit: z-cancelling is useful because you don't end up air dodging like a ****ing idiot if you ledgecancel an aerial and cancel with L or R. This can, alternatively, not happen by recognising that the situation will lead into a ledgecancelled aerial, which isn't difficult. tl;dr the difference is very minimal and I would just suggest using whichever feels more comfortable.

:king:

 

[Bones0]

crouch cancel > shine.

edit: z-cancelling is useful because you don't end up air dodging like a ****ing idiot if you ledgecancel an aerial and cancel with L or R. This can, alternatively, not happen by recognising that the situation will lead into a ledgecancelled aerial, which isn't difficult. tl;dr the difference is very minimal and I would just suggest using whichever feels more comfortable.

:king:

Or you can just not push the trigger all the way down.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Good players don't airdodge when they are L canceling....I have never seen that ever. Even by noobs.

MLB seriously one of the best things you can start doing as early as possible is geting used to buffer rolls. Just roll with C stick instead of control stick when someone hits your shield. Although your friend is probably going to mess up his spacing alot so you should just shield grab him instead.
I still can't buffer roll

 

[Bones0]

I wish I had learned to roll/spot dodge/throw with the c-stick. I tried to get used to throwing with the c-stick, but kinda just stopped because I forgot. lol

 

[mbl1714]

I wish I had learned to roll/spot dodge/throw with the c-stick. I tried to get used to throwing with the c-stick, but kinda just stopped because I forgot. lol

Is it more technical or better in some way to use the c-stick to roll/spot dodge/throw?

 

[Bones0]

Using the c-stick to roll/spot dodge allows you to buffer. Basically all that means is you can input the roll/spot dodge before shield stun is over as opposed to timing a press on the control stick. So like if you got hit by a Falcon Punch, there is a lot of shield stun. During all that stun, you could just hold the c-stick left, right, down, or up to make your character roll left, roll right, spot dodge, or jump respectively on the first possible frame. Using the c-stick also allows you to do stuff like tilt your shield left and roll right without worrying about getting shield poked as you move your stick from left to right.

As far as throws, I think it would just make it easier to following up after fast throws. Specifically, I like the thought of chain grabbing spacies as Marth with the c-stick. I can hit up on the c-stick, but keep the control stick neutral to make it a little easier to time the dash as soon as the throw is done. It can help for things you have to do really fast after throwing, like up throwing then trying to pivot grab. I've just gotten used to timing stuff with the control stick though, so I am barely investing any more effort in timing stuff with the control stick, but just talking about it makes me want to try to get in the habit. lol

I know I could, it would just be frustrating. I actually use the c-stick to buffer rolls out of Marth doing double fthrows, so I know I can change my habits, it's just a matter of remembering to do it when I sit down to play and have so many other things I am also working on.

 

[Metal Reeper]

I never thought of C sticking throws lol.

 

[Beat!]

I like the thought of chain grabbing spacies as Marth with the c-stick. I can hit up on the c-stick, but keep the control stick neutral to make it a little easier to time the dash as soon as the throw is done. It can help for things you have to do really fast after throwing, like up throwing then trying to pivot grab

omg

BRB

lol

 

[stelzig]

I'd rather have my right hand ready to press z and x during chaingrabbing with marth. I think it's alot easier to move the controlstick in a new direction in time, than it is to move your thumb back up on x (or y). It's not like you have to turn that fast anyway, I usually "buffer" the turnaround when chaingrabbing falco and just react to marth turning around when pressing Z.
Even at percents where you will never have to dash, it just sounds really awkward to do that to me.

If some people have trouble with the chaingrab, I guess it's worse trying though, heh. I can see where the benefit would be, but generally all throwing animations should have enough lag for you to not have trouble with this.

 

[Beat!]

I don't really have issues with it, but cutting a few redundant frames when pivot grabbing could be neat.

 

[hungrybox]

Z-cancelling is the future


it's incredible

 

[leffen]

I've been buffering dthrows for a few months now(when you hold C stick down, you throw asap, this is not the case when you hold it up). It's really good. I mainly use it for Yoshis dthrow (so they miss the DI away since its so fast) but its good to use with Marth, CF, Roy etc too.

 

[Dorsey]

I use both R and Z to l-cancel(for years)... I guess I'm weird. Depends on what I'm doing.. I also use z's for aerials sometimes too.. like, w/ fox sh nair to l-cancel shine, I use z for the aerial and the l-cancel.. with drill to l-cancel grab, I just double tap z for a well timed l-cancel + grab. Probably a few other situations I prefer Z over R, but in general I do time Z around edge cancels and pivots better than I do R.

 

[CanISmash]

i wanted to say that when two noobs play each other the one playing sheik is definitely winning.

similar thing with fox i thought my friend was a million times better than me a few years back turns out u-throw up-air vs pikachu works from noob to pro.

i heard z is best in terms of if you make a mistake you still have room to tech but i dunno.

personally i use both l and r and i think it depends on where i'm attacking. like if i attack to the right i think i use r... don't ask why

 

[Uffe]

Yea why is Z better? It feels weird? Don't many top players use R?

Just use whatever you feel works for you. Z probably does better because you're less likely to block with it, and you can just cancel into a grab right away. But like I said, just use whatever works for you. I use R for blocking, wavedashing/landing, and L-Canceling.

Also, it is possible to beat someone who knows advanced techniques, but the likeliness of doing so is pretty slim. I have a group of people I practice with, and one of them uses Link and has no technique. He tends to play pretty campy, too. He's never defeated me, but he's defeated my friends who use technique. The problem with them is that they play reckless at times and it costs them their matches. So as you can see, even though this Link player has a better character than myself, I destroy him while the other two actually give me some trouble, because they're using technique against me. It doesn't sound like it makes any sense, but for some reason it just does.

 

[Zodiac]

Is it possible to beat someone who knows advanced techniques such as wave dashing and SHFFLing?

Mind games son! haha really though at's are just tools to help you win, there are plenty of ways to get around someone's proficiency with them. For example, I use link, who cant always wavedash as well, but since every else in the cast can wave dash pretty good I have to compensate with reading and spacing.

 

[Sinji]

Z... I must try it.

My mind is tingling again

 

[the_CAM_factor]

i agree with z-canceling. its awesome

 

[mbl1714]

i agree with z-canceling. its awesome

Yea but I have to stretch my index finger which I have placed on R Trigger to Z every time which is weird.

 

[Varist]

wtf, i endorse z-canceling with examples and evidence and **** and get two pages of dismissal.

hbox comes in and offers his two-liner and *****es do a 360.

**** you smashboards, LOL

 

[Jonas]

LOL that's so amazing

to be honest though I still don't see the point.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Hbox is right, we all need to start using Z and quit being noobs.
trollface.

 

[mesa23]

using z feels so damn weird.

i think i'll just stick to using "r" for everything.

 

[Archangel]

Z use to be weird for me now I barely touch my R or L buttons.

 

[SupaSairentoZ7℠]

Back then Z felt pretty weird for me too.