Is it possible for a good Ike to beat MK? And what does Snake hav that Ike doesnt??

[lil cj]

I was jus wondering...is it anyway possible for a good Ike to beat a good Meta Knight?
Or is it impossible?...Ike can beat certain fast characters...Ive managed to beat Pikachu and Olimar before...Ive never seen Ike beat MK before(watched alot of youtube vids) thats why I was curious. I even saw a vid of Azen's Ike Vs M2K's Meta Knight with Azen losing horribly...is there any hope at all?

My next question is what does Snake have that Ike doesnt have?...whats makes Snake 2nd best/top tier and Ike being lower mid tier? Both are heavy, have a few fast moves, and both can be gimped easily. Ike is stronger than Snake, has a counter, super armor, two ways to recover, has more range and i think his jab is faster than Snake's jab/ftilt...and QD is not as good as mortar slide but it covers more ground. Im jus sayin...Snake has nothin on Ike...lol

And jus a quick note...jus wondering if anyone else does this...
does anyone use side smash as an edge guard?
Its quite effective...jus as your opponent tries to grab on to the ledge hit them with a fully charged side smash...a guaranteed one hit KO.I do this all the time...cheap but works wonders

 

[CELTiiC]

Well, Ike isn't completely hopeless against Metaknight, we can win, but it's not going to be a majority of the time. It's definitely not impossible. For your second question, Snake has priority, if you haven't noticed. Btw, Ike doesn't have fast attacks, he has pretty laggy attacks, which makes Snake a better character, and he has a better recovery. Also, for edge guarding I find d-tilt much more useful if you can get good timing on it. if not, I'll just jump out F-Air, B-Air, or D-Air (less than the others) and than recover. So hope this answers your questions.

 

[PltnmNgl]

This plus Snake has a projectiles. Gimping Ike is pretty much easier than gimping Snake.

 

[CELTiiC]

This plus Snake has a projectiles. Gimping Ike is pretty much easier than gimping Snake.

I meant priority has projectiles, but as I think of it, they're 2 completely different things lol

 

[Deleted member]

Ike has a sword.

 

[Kinzer]

He also has teh ph1r3 with his Neutral-B attack.

 

[XACE-K]

He would also look in the match-up guide to find out this info.

 

[Onsokumaru]

Snake has a forward tilt.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Ike outranges the first hit of Snake's Ftilt with his own ftilt.

How many other characters can say that? Seriously.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

Ike has a sword.

No one got this did they? He asked what Ike has that snake doesn't. Snake has fire too.


@ nintendo : *face palm* I think half of the cast out ranges snake's first Ftilt with theres. Almost every character can out range it with one move or another too.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

>_>

<_<

I was talking only ftilts. Have you seen just how large the hitbox on that sucker is? As in, gone to training mode and tested it? (Snake's that is) Ike's doesn't beat it by much.

Either way, stop messing with my illogical logic!

 

[Kinzer]

He doesn't have fire, he has explosives.

 

[xYz]

Ike destroys MKs... just not really really reallly good(gay) mk's.

 

[lil cj]

Ike is high tier material imo
Ive seen what a good Ike can do
Its all about waiting and watching
but thats kinda hard to do with MK
because his moves are so fast...but you can get him if he becomes helpless after his b moves

 

[ShinXDestiny]

My friend plays Meta knight(he can beat Level 9 Meta Knight easy), I(Ike Player) can beat him. T-T I played an amazing snake player. Memorize all the locations of his mines, and dodge all his bombs(easy with training(I did that with Meta knight T-T)) and mostly all should go well(Go to sleep... 0.o no! ZZZzzzzz).

 

[Royta]

My friend plays Meta knight(he can beat Level 9 Meta Knight easy), I(Ike Player) can beat him. T-T I played an amazing snake player. Memorize all the locations of his mines, and dodge all his bombs(easy with training(I did that with Meta knight T-T)) and mostly all should go well(Go to sleep... 0.o no! ZZZzzzzz).

I think this pretty much summed it all up
/win

On topic, a good Ike vs a good MK is hard for the Ike player, BUT thanks to good range and KO power we aren't 100% helpless. It's just very hard^^

Also snake just outpowers Ike in everything, priority, damage, weight, most of his attacks got more range. There is no reason to think that Ike is better as Snake, sorry.

 

[Ho-oh]

I dont play against many humans(except my little brothers, but they am easy as h***) so i dont have a clue against what to do against MK, but lets vote for him to get banned everybody, ive seen fights with extremely good players against a noob MK, and MK wins just because he is FAR to overpowered.

With Snake, his B attacks is the reason that he is high.
His neutral B makes a great mindgame, and if you hold it when your oppenent holds you, it cancels your opponents grab, which helps against things like DDDs infinite and the trick with donkey kong where you hold your oppenent, fall from the edge and throw your opponent on the other side of the way you walked to fall from the stage. Ikes one is a great killer move, but it has only 0,00000000000000001% chance of hitting on a good opponent.
His down B is also a good mindgame since it prevents your opponent from going to that location, and you can then trap him, same with his down smash too. Its also good for recovery(ive heard). Ikes down B is good, but very dangerous(for yourself), so its not used often.
His side B is great sometimes when you fight persons with bad recovery(like Ike) and they am off the stage. Ikes side B is great, it is good in the start of a battle, when your opponents try to keep distance AND for recovery, unfortunately, its dangerous as recovery since your opponent might stay in your way.
His up B is easy to meteor smash, but it is better than Ikes by far. Ikes up B is good at damaging, but a terrible recovery.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Smash newbs should stop posting.

The reason Snake is better Ike is several reasons.
1.Better recovery (not by much though)
2.Grenades come out 1 frame and are extremely good for camping. They are also very useful for defensive.
3.Incredible stage control. C4+mines+grenades=powerful. It is extremely difficult to shake Snake's stage control.
4.Faster than Ike. (duh)
5.Has extremely powerful grab combos.
6.has an easier time killing than Ike due to better speed.
7.Stronger ground game.
8. Can camp.

its alot of reasons.

As for beating MK.
Ike does have trouble with MK. I find it to be among the more brutal mnatches when facing mK but it certainly isn't unwinnable. you do have to be noticeably better than your opponent though.


ike is no high anything.
Mid tier at best.

 

[The Milk Monster]

It's Brawl, anything can happen.

 

[The Milk Monster]

In response to your other question, Snake's aerials come out quicker then Ike's, they auto cancel themselves, Snake has 2, technically 3 projectiles, can control the stage like no other, Ike's recovery sucks, he relies too much on slow kill moves, almost all of Snake's moves can kill, he can lock with his over tilt knee, his tilts come out faster then Ike's, more useful, hit harder, "combo" better, Snake is much harder to gimp then Ike, "IMMA DO QUICK DRAW TO RECOVER LAWL" "k" -jumps infront of Ike.-.
Snake has numerous things over Ike, 'nuff said.

 

[The Milk Monster]

And jus a quick note...jus wondering if anyone else does this...
does anyone use side smash as an edge guard?
Its quite effective...jus as your opponent tries to grab on to the ledge hit them with a fully charged side smash...a guaranteed one hit KO.I do this all the time...cheap but works wonders

Bad edgeguard. Too easy to avoid, if you miss it you will be punished greatly.
Use neutral b, grab the edge and up b a lot, down tilt, neutral a combo, pretty much anything except over smash.

 

[Rykoshet]

Snake's aerials come out quicker then Ike's, they auto cancel themselves

I play snake now so uh... double jumped nair cancels itself, short hopped up air cancels, full hopped front air and back both cancel, down air doesnt cancel at all...

Ike's front, down, and up air all cancel on full hop. His back air cancels on short hop, and his nair cancels regardless.

Ike's front air is as quick if not quicker than snake's, ike's back air is faster than snake's, ike's up air may not be but it serves the purpose of baiting a dodge to get an easy hit in.

Please, for the love of god, do not spread misinformation.

 

[__V]

Or triple post. >.>

Ike can Counter mines. Ike can grab Snake out of up+B. Ike can spike Snake rather easily. While Snake holds the advantage, it isn't like this is that bad of a fight for Ike. Just don't be a ****** and side+B recover.

 

[Kitamerby]

Also snake just outpowers Ike in everything, priority, damage, weight, most of his attacks got more range. There is no reason to think that Ike is better as Snake, sorry.

Yeah, but Ike fights for his friends. He can't lose.

His neutral B....cancels your opponents grab,

Nope. It only explodes if the grenade gets hit by a throw that has a little AoE, such as DDD's dthrow, in which him sitting on his opponent is also a hitbox, or Falco's Dthrow, where him shooting the opponent is a hitbox. Moves such as Lucario's SideB and Fthrow will not set off the grenade.

 

[Rykoshet]

Nevermind the fact that your opponent is at a tactical advantage even if it does hit as long as he's in the higher controller slot.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Yes yes Snake is horribly broken and deserves to be nerfed, we all KNOW THIS.

Spoiler

/thread

 

[Kinzer]

Ike is high tier material imo

You have to understand that Ike at this rate will never get any higher than high-mid mid-tier because as far as moveset goes, Ike is simple. What takes time to master is playing Ike the correct way. It's the same thing with mastering MK, being limited by your own skill, but the difference with MK and Ike is that Ike has weaknesses that stand out.

While he still has an easier time than most other characters do (Falcon), he still has some nightmarish matchups (Falco, Olimar).

 

[Tenki]

Ike has fast moves. Snake has fast moves.
Ike has range. Snake has range.

But what Snake has over Ike is that he has a bunch of fast and long-reaching moves.

Most of Ike's long reaching moves are kind of... slow.

Snake has projectiles and a longer-reaching recovery :3

 

[doom dragon 105]

I leave for a week and a bunch of new people show up -_-

Snake has better recovery, Snake has more options

 

[Royta]

Saying that ike is good is already going quite far, saying he's top tier is going overboard.
Yet when you ask people, they either laugh at you for using him or curse you for using the OVERPOWERED Ike.

But instead of going on about this I think we should 'call' this topic since its gonna be a discussion between the newbs and the pro's and we all know none of the 2 are gonna change their opinion ;p

 

[The Milk Monster]

I play snake now so uh... double jumped nair cancels itself, short hopped up air cancels, full hopped front air and back both cancel, down air doesnt cancel at all...

Ike's front, down, and up air all cancel on full hop. His back air cancels on short hop, and his nair cancels regardless.

Ike's front air is as quick if not quicker than snake's, ike's back air is faster than snake's, ike's up air may not be but it serves the purpose of baiting a dodge to get an easy hit in.

Please, for the love of god, do not spread misinformation.

Yeah his front air is quicker then Ike's, I will say that much, their back air's are both fairly quick.
Snake's neutral air is a multi hit, and it auto cancel's itself a short hop then a full hop, and then fast fall it when the 4th kick comes out.
Fact of the matter being, the way Ike needs to be played to be effective won't get much higher then Mid tier, as someone said up higher.

 

[BladeMaster17]

I think Ike has a better chance fighting metaknight if he gets a beam sword

 

[Skyflyer]

If it's a good MK, it won't happen.

 

[Skyflyer]

I think Ike has a better chance fighting metaknight if he gets a beam sword

Too bad items are banned.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Is it possible for a good Ike to beat MK? Yes.

Is it possible for an Ike to beat a good MK? No.

 

[Kinzer]

Don't you mean not likely? Brawl is really balanced and unbalanced like that...

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Have you played a good Meta Knight? Heck, I'm not even that good with MK, but I've played Ike long enough to know where his weaknesses/openings are. Ike does not have a prayer. He can be abused and gimped. MK can fight in such a way that he has no openings whatsoever. GG

 

[Kinzer]

Meh... I guess I just like to stay optimistic... :/

 

[Falconv1.0]

Ike is high tier material imo
Ive seen what a good Ike can do
Its all about waiting and watching
but thats kinda hard to do with MK
because his moves are so fast...but you can get him if he becomes helpless after his b moves

Can be CG'd like crazy, camping shuts him down, pretty slow, mediocre recovery.

Yeah, totally high tier material. And Ganon totally doesn't suck and wins tons of tourneys.

 

[Kinzer]

Aww, should've let him live in his dreamland.

*Cough* actuality is Ike ain't going NOWHERE anytime soon if ever.