Is chain grabbing cheap?

[bobson]

The Scrub mentality is that if it's technically difficult to do, then it's not cheap.

How is that a scrub mentality? Cheapness is an obscured risk:reward ratio. If a powerful technique is very difficult, there's a large risk of failing while trying to use it, thereby balancing the risk with the reward. If the same technique was made very easy, there'd be no risk to using it, and it'd be unbalanced; cheap.

 

[Ice Climbers P and N]

Why is it possible to do then? Yes it's cheap, but fun too, and not hard to do.

 

[Onsokumaru]

Chaingrabbing certainly isn't cheap, however, I personally refuse to use chaingrabs.

I feel that if people think it's cheap then they should just play with people who agree. Although, I suppose there will always be people who consider something cheap and oppose it completely yet still put up with it.

 

[MBlaze]

Never call anything cheap, however chain grabs are extremely gay. Let's use Falco for example, once grabbed I am:

A. 0 death chain spiked

B. Up to over 60 damage from inescapable grabs and follow ups that aren't complicated at all.

Pretty gay to me. :/

 

[Black_Heretic]

Cheap doesn't exist in competition. If it helps you win and is allowed, do it without hesitation

that said, when playing with friends its common to not use CGs just to have more fun, but yeah...

in competition=/= is cheap

 

[JohnAnon]

The Scrub mentality is that if it's technically difficult to do, then it's not cheap.

It's not cheap, even if it accomplishes the exact same result or even worse because it requires, you know, skill. In other words, it's cheap if they themselves can't pick a character up and win with them without any prior training. Wii forbid they actually gain some technical skill at Smash, at which point the "It takes skill!" point becomes moot, really.

It's cheap as long as it's humanly possible to learn and that's all there is to either. Either that or it isn't cheap at all.

Chaingrabbing doesn't take skill. Well, it does, but in the skewed term which is considered "skill" in the SSB tourney scene, which is actually muscle memory.

Sure, I might use chaingrabs in tournaments (although I main characters with no chaingrabs), but I don't use it in friendly matches. I will only chaingrab, Auto-Rar, etc. if the other person does it.

Why? Because I have a sense of "honor." And by that, I mean that I believe fair matches are even matches, and that even matches = FUN. If it's unfair for them, they won't be having fun. I mean, who likes taking 60% from Falco and then get spiked to death at ground level? If they can't do anything about it, I won't do it in the first place. If they do it and I can do something about it, then I will do it.

In tournaments, I'm sure that "code of honor" is lost since everyone is only focused on playing to win, no matter what. I can't tell them that they're not allowed do it, since it's technically not banned.

And Jesus Christ, change your sig and call the characters by their English names, you god**** weeaboo.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Chaingrabbing doesn't take skill. Well, it does, but in the skewed term which is considered "skill" in the SSB tourney scene, which is actually muscle memory.

Sure, I might use chaingrabs in tournaments (although I main characters with no chaingrabs), but I don't use it in friendly matches. I will only chaingrab, Auto-Rar, etc. if the other person does it.

Why? Because I have a sense of "honor." And by that, I mean that I believe fair matches are even matches, and that even matches = FUN. If it's unfair for them, they won't be having fun. I mean, who likes taking 60% from Falco and then get spiked to death at ground level? If they can't do anything about it, I won't do it in the first place. If they do it and I can do something about it, then I will do it.

In tournaments, I'm sure that "code of honor" is lost since everyone is only focused on playing to win, no matter what. I can't tell them that they're not allowed do it, since it's technically not banned.

And Jesus Christ, change your sig and call the characters by their English names, you god**** weeaboo.

Certain Varieties of chain grabs take skill....some don't. I believe the Ice Climber ones do while some others don't. I dislike Chain Grabbing for stalling. I believe using it to just get rid of time is cheap.
And for your last sentence: nice trolling.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Hmm not this kind of a topic again... lol.

I'm not going to go into much detail unless needed to later.

Chaingrabbing can be 'cheap'. There is no solid definition of cheap. Even if its cheap or not cheap, there's nothing wrong with using it. It's a fighting game, and if you know/find/learn and use a 'cheap' tactic, then you should be able to use it. Use anything that will help you win. That's what makes it competetive.

Now, I'm not saying that I support chaingrabs and believe that including it into the game is the fairest thing to do, but I'm just saying that it's not wrong to chaingrab.

Of course, if you believe in 'less punishable' techniques and dont like techniques like chaingrabbing that could deal lots of dmg or kill you for a small mistake you did, then sure you can make/join a tourny where CGing is either limited or banned. (Limited as in, lets say, after the 2nd grab you have to stop, etc).

If anything's confusing... then sorry .

And, Chaingrabbing does require skill. You need to time it, and in many situations, if you have to grab them within a few frames only, with barely any leeway. You can occasionally mess up your CG, and you could be punished (even if its not a heavy punish, a few % can effect the player in the end). And about the argument: Don't get grabbed. Yeah, it's not THAT easy, but you just got to play smart and learn to avoid them. Learn to space, mindgames, projectiles, etc... Remember, except may be for ICs and DDD, you only need to avoid CGing until you're at about 40% dmg, because after that, most CGers can't CG later than that (of course it depends on ur char's heaviness and fall speed and size, but let's just look at the average chars). For some, like Falco, you may need to stay safe until 70%.

So, there are some reasons as to why CGs aren't so bad.


As a note: in the previous examples, I did not include factors of Infinite Chain Grabbing, the above opinions are only about Normal Chain Grabbing. Also, Chaingrabbing/ICGing to stall, is 'unfair' i guess since it's stalling. But there is that rule by the SWF where you can't CG past 300%, so if you get grabbed at let's say 100%, there's an average of about 2 seconds before you escape, so if a grab does average 5% (its 5% because of decay), that means he can grab you 40 times, so 40 grabs*2 seconds = 1 minute 20 seconds. And with the 8 minute time limit... well, you should still have a lot of time. And if they do suceed in stalling... well, i guess you just have to say, good job for them.

 

[Barge]

Why would you CG to 300%?

Most ice climber mainers would kill you at 100-120 percent depending on the character.

I know I do.

 

[M15t3R E]

Why would you CG to 300%?

Most ice climber mainers would kill you at 100-120 percent depending on the character.

I know I do.

Lol, good question. The 300% rule is BS. It's not helping anyone as no brawler alive would CG someone that high. Even if it was 200% instead of 300%, that still would be BS. It should be around 100%. 125% tops.

 

[Yonder]

Chaingrabs are a little bit cheap, I guess.

INFINITES, on the other hand, are stupidly cheap, like the one Dedede has on a few characters. They don't even let you play, and make the matches very boring.

 

[aeghrur]

It should be like, 300% for the whole match then. =/

 

[choknater]

"boring" is not a factor

but yeah

ddd's infinites on luigi mario dk bowser and samus... i wouldn't let those fly in tournament

same with ddd's ledge infinite on himself

and whatever infinites he has

cg's are fine but the infinites are mehhh

(even if he didn't do them, he still ***** those characters anyway LOL)

 

[Hype]

The reason for the 300 rule is so an infinite will get you a kill, but not the match. Without the rule, if Dedede gets a grab into the corneria wall he wins the game becuase noone in the right mind wouldn't just keep infiniting him untill the game is over if money is on the line.

 

[XienZo]

300 is still going to eat up a good chunk of time though(especially with Marth and mother boys...), and 200 is ample damage to kill for most, and ICs are good with the aforementioned 100-120.

 

[Yuna]

I did not read what Yuna quoted before replying.

Maybe you weren't paying attention, but the chaingrabs spoken about included, say, IC's chaingrabs, which do not require only muscle memory but impeccable timing (sometimes) and fluctuates depending on what character they're facing.

And Jesus Christ, change your sig and call the characters by their English names, you god**** weeaboo.

Yes, because obviously since it irks you, it has to go. I'm Asian, so it's not like I have no right to like Asian culture. Also, you obviously missed the whole point of the sig being in Romaji; Shota.

Lol, good question. The 300% rule is BS. It's not helping anyone as no brawler alive would CG someone that high. Even if it was 200% instead of 300%, that still would be BS. It should be around 100%. 125% tops.

It's an arbitrary threshold to limit the stalling potential. Be glad it's no longer 999%. Yes, it was 999% once

 

[Matt07]

Nah, Mario does pretty well against Dedede (excluding his chaingrabs) his u-air combo's him like crazy, he can Cape his up B, and a lot of other factors. It would maybe be 40-60 in Dedede's favour but I really dunno.

 

[Blitzmidfielder]

Only if it's Falco's no-skill CG.

 

[Tamoo]

The only chaingrab i respect is Ice climbers. It took me a while to learn it and it aint easy to do. Gettin chained by falco just makes u really want to quit the match and throw the game out the window and play melee again...

 

[Tien2500]

The only chaingrab i respect is Ice climbers. It took me a while to learn it and it aint easy to do. Gettin chained by falco just makes u really want to quit the match and throw the game out the window and play melee again...

Getting chain grabbed makes you want to go back to Melee?

 

[Gindler]

Getting chain grabbed makes you want to go back to Melee?

Yeah, there were no CGs in melee *cough*



But yeah, CGs are cheap. Dthrow CGs are super stupid, infinites are stupid (I actually never infinite warios because they're so stupid), ICs are so hard to do and set up that I don't really mind getting caught in one even if it does suck. Yoshi's CGs are kinda garbage, on final D he gets like 4 grabs max before running out of room so he gets like 16-20 damage in with the chews (about what D3's Bthrow does ), mostly just for follow-ups though...

 

[Tamoo]

Getting chain grabbed makes you want to go back to Melee?

Yeah, well i main jiggly so noone's gonna chaingrab me there.

 

[Yuna]

Getting chain grabbed makes you want to go back to Melee?

Keep in mind that Tamoo plays the PAL version, where Sheik's chaingrab is non-existent. Most of the other chaingrabs in the game are percentage-dependent (not like NTSC Sheik's, which is pretty much "Oh, anytime you have less than 120%" or something).

 

[Tien2500]

Well Tamoo now you have to deal with chaingrabbing like we have here for the past 8 years or so

 

[Steeler]

chaingrabbing is pretty lame, but we just have to accept it. unlike melee, most chaingrabs require very little skill/prediction in brawl. and with the buffed grabbing system...yeah.

 

[Tamoo]

lol, im surprised theres tht much difference between PAL and NTSC...

 

[Tien2500]

I've never actually played the PAL version. I'll have to check it out sometime.

 

[Chaos Swordsman]

Yep, but it's still difficult. So my view on the topic is neutral

 

[-Jumpman-]

Chain grabbing isn't cheap. Just don't get grabbed.

 

[HeroMystic]

And this topic doesn't die... why?

 

[Barge]

Because people keep posting the same posts in it

 

[CrayZ]

it's not cheap when ice climbers do it =P...cause with Ice climbers it takes skill...go try it. it's harder then it looks...

true fact, but the only thing that takes a bit is fthrow an bthrow chains. ice block lock and dthrow to fair is simple chains

 

[Barge]

true fact, but the only thing that takes a bit is fthrow an bthrow chains. ice block lock and dthrow to fair is simple chains

timing is different for every character you do it on, and with the dthrow to fair theres only a certain number you can do before you have to send an ice block for a forced get up, some characters its 2, some its 3. Some you can't even do it on (bowser, dk)

 

[KageIsGoingDown]

Why? Because I have a sense of "honor."

lol I don't wanna be THAT guy, but wtf does "honor" have to do with a video game? I can't believe people keep hammering this topic down. Read the other comments before you post because I see the exact same comment over and over. It's ********. This thread should be finished but people insist on saying the exact same thing over and over. :embarrass

 

[HylianBoy]

Perhaps. I not going to say it is, but if it comes to it being considered cheap, then oh well. If it's working, it's working.

 

[ibrium]

Yes.

Unfair? No.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Cheap is a scrub's term for efficiency. So, no. Just don't get grabbed.

 

[Coney]

No, it's not.

You know a character is gonna be looking for it, so just watch out. If you get caught in it, it's your own fault--just think of it as a big, big punishment for a dumb move.

 

[choknater]

yup

same thing as getting 0-death combo'd from 1 mistake in any game

 

[xoxokev]

is chain grabbing cheap?

only if you can do them correctly