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iRJi's Tournament Ruleset (Complete)

ShadowLink84

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
9,007
Location
Middle of nowhere. Myrtle Beach
SL, I'm very, very aware of how silly limiting JUST MK is, but in a world where he's not banned, it's essentially the next best thing. I personally think he should be banned, and I'd rather not simply limit him until he's a shell of the character he once was, even though he's still really good in that case.
I like this guy/girl/whatever is behind the screen.
Now y all means I can certainly understand.
No one wants to ban MK so the next best thing would be to limit him.
Which is the problem though, because it is essentially saying "We have this character who should not be legal, but we want to nerf him and keep him legal just because we can."

It only hurts the competitive scene and makes a mockery of many people who actually care about the metagame.

Hence which is why I am neutral.
Originally I was anti-ban until the issue in regards to Mk's planking came up, that is what caused the problem.

I reallyt hink that for once, the community needs to stop bickering over who is right and who is wrong, and discuss whether or not they feel that this character truly is the issue and that the many surgical rules aren't put in place simply because they fear bringing the banhammer.

This also goes for pro-ban, they need to discuss things and say "Maybe this character is just strong and isn't ban worthy as we thought."

@Kaiber hop: You're an idiot, play the game please.
 

_Yes!_

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
8,787
Location
WHERE AM I
M-my god, and just as I thought I couldn't be anymore disappointed in AN.


@Delta: If you are going to limit only MK you might as well ban him. I swear im about to post some courage wolf in here since it seems more like they are afraid to even contemplate *gasp* banning the bat.

I am neutral in the affair but I do think that when you are going to such lengths the mediate the behavior of a character, something is definitely wrong with the character.

Less scrub rules and more focusing on the issue, rather than trying to jump around it.

Btw an air time rule is ********. I would expect better.
Who are you?

can we atleast agree that a lgl on mk only is much better than a universal lgl? he's the only one with the problem

edit: orion I'll mm ur gaw no anti planking rules
Universal LGL. Just because it's more broken when MK does it, doesn't mean pit/rob/gaw aren't broken when they do it.


1. I never said Metaknight was broken.Don't put words in my mouth, especially when I've said I am neutral in regards to his legality.


No no no, let us correct you here.
It means that Metaknight's planking is broken. Not that the strategy of planking in itself is broken.
ROB planking, G&W planking, Pit planking, it can all be dealt with by many different characters.


Don't censor bypass, you look like an idiot when you do.

IC cg's aren't limited. It is impossible to limit them.
The limits placed on DDD, as well as on Marth and Charizard from performing their respective infinites on Ness and Lucas are, hmm, gee, ********!

It is also hypocritical and also foolish.
You are trying to say "We got away with making bad rules last time, its perfectly fine to do it again."
you are flat out giving the community false hope and lying to them when you make these rules that don't do nothing more than put a bandaid on a severed artery.
Idjits.


Sucks to be Falco.
Thing is, G&W's planking can be dealt with because of his vulnerabilities.
This was proven by DMG though frame data.
Pick someone who can deal with it.

Guess who isn't vulnerable when planking?
MK.
You get 6 frames in which he is vulnerable.
Alot of character's snap onto the ledge on frame 4.
You aren't going to be doing any harm to the bat unless you are *gasp* MK.

Planking and scrooging are both legit strategies.

They are only broken when it comes to MK.


Edit: MK gets around LGL's. Grabbing the ledge a mere 15 times=auto loss at the end?
TERRIBLE idea.
Two reasons.
1. MK can get around it.
2. Its a stupid idea.
Do you play sonic?

*flies under the stage once then lands*
*proceeds to fly under the stage again*

Let alone why put an LGL when planking and scrooging is not an issue for any other character except MK .

It's like you see the problem, and refuse to even see it.
Whole new level of denial these days.



The problem is that its pretty much saying "This character is a problem in the metagame but we would rather put an arbitrary surgical change that he can circumvent(!), than ban him"

This is bad.
Can you imagine how stupid it would be if they said SSF2T Akuma could not use red fireball, air fireball, and allowed the opponent to recover from a dizzy? Just to keep Akuma legal and give everyone a chance?

Cause thats how good MK's planking is, and people severely underestimate only because it isn't done very often.
Still going....

*shrugs*
Don't know don't care.
Frankly, I consider most of the community to be overly interested in what happens NOW, now what happens 5 years down the road.
?

If we are trying to limit MK for experimentation purposes, what about sharking? Sharking makes MK extremely broken on stages which you can come up from below the stage like Delfino, Brinstar, etc. Of course sharking would have to be given a reasonable definition. My personal definition would be "attacking from below the stage so your opponent can't hit you" or somewhere along those lines. It would really balance MK on stages like that. Coming up that way to recover though would be legal though. As for scrooging, ban it. It's really broken and just getting rid of it would be fair. Although these rules would also affect a few other characters like ROB and Pit, I believe it's fair.

I have no opinion on more neutrals, but I think we should add PS2 and Pictochat. They really aren't bad stages.
No.

Inferno thats even worse.
No attacking from beneath the stage?
Thats ridiculous.
!

I think having some stages that MK doesn't **** on would do some good. Pictochat seems good, and even maybe Mario Circuit.

Mario Circuit's huge, and we already allow bull**** like Delfino and Castle Seige for DDD players. Besides, DDD is rare in such an MK dominant state, so it's not like this stage will cause a giant surge in DDD players.
 

Inferno3044

Smash Master
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
3,755
Location
Teaneck, NJ/Richmond VA
Inferno thats even worse.
No attacking from beneath the stage?
Thats ridiculous.
Maybe my definition isn't the best but my point was no sharking. MK can basically shark and most if not all characters can't really do anything. I also know trying to nerf a character sounds dumb, but a general rule isn't just targeting MK. MK right now might not be ban worthy because some people like Ally, ADHD, Larry, etc. have beaten top MKs. MK is also the center of the metagame which is my reason for pro ban. A character basically isn't viable if he does bad against MK.

@Chibo - We know this has to deal with MK. A ban probably won't happen because a lot of top players use MK and there will probably be a considerable loss in the community. If a ban isn't possible, limiting things in the game that MK can easily exploit might do some balance.
 

_Yes!_

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
8,787
Location
WHERE AM I
Eww....why is the bad kid responding to me?

Never heard of you......enough said
I love you :laugh:

I think Anti is dead right; if MK's banned, the game degenerates into who can CG who between pika/ddd/falco/icy's. ****'s whack. Just lower the LGL to 20 and allow some stages to take MK to and ban some stages that mk can take people to. (My vote is to remove rainbow)
 

ShadowLink84

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
9,007
Location
Middle of nowhere. Myrtle Beach
*Looks at both Kaiber and Yes*
Hmm...




!!!!




SOLUTION!




Seriously, you only make the community look pathetic with the way both of you act.

If you are going to question my credentials, if you are seriously going to act so very bold as to ask such a stupid question, and then act as childish as a n00b.
I will ask why it says MLG Columbus: Mew2King wins again! (3-1 vs Ally),
rather than either of your names.


@ksizzle: So do I. Its trifling.
 

Kaiber Kop

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
4,539
Location
Springfield
Doesn't validate me anymore than it would have before I joined Inui.

Besides, if both Kai and Yes! want to troll that is perfectly fine.
If they can't see my name its an indication of bad eyesight. Or rhydelin gone wrong.
I'll go with the second one. They just don't give out the proper prescriptions these days :ohwell:
 

TheTantalus

Smash Hero
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
6,887
Location
Hampstead, MD
Inui with the creeper post to silence the haters

Good work

ShadowLink i've read too much of your posts today, you talk a lot, this arguing is silly.

RJ, what is your proposal?
 

Allied

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
3,778
Location
Esports
Ew at comparing SF2 Akuma to Metaknight discusting comparsion

idc if he gets banned i would kinda like it i think i'm neutral
 

ShadowLink84

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
9,007
Location
Middle of nowhere. Myrtle Beach
Ew at comparing SF2 Akuma to Metaknight discusting comparsion

idc if he gets banned i would kinda like it i think i'm neutral
Mmm not necessarily ALlied.
It is more of saying "If we constantly are weakening a character, why not do the same to SSF2T Akuma? It is the same in principle."

My sisters were watching that not that long ago, rofl.
Yeah its a good movie.
Left my copy at my ex's sadly.

I see we're getting a lot done here, guys. Keep up the good work.

~PD
Well you can have YES! and Kai to thank for it.
Should thank em.
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,423
M-my god, and just as I thought I couldn't be anymore disappointed in AN.

@Delta: If you are going to limit only MK you might as well ban him. I swear im about to post some courage wolf in here since it seems more like they are afraid to even contemplate *gasp* banning the bat.

I am neutral in the affair but I do think that when you are going to such lengths the mediate the behavior of a character, something is definitely wrong with the character.

Less scrub rules and more focusing on the issue, rather than trying to jump around it.

Btw an air time rule is ********. I would expect better.
As much as you people disregard his posts, he is speaking the truth. There is no point in just limiting MK and no one else. The LGL should stay universal, since like I said previously, other characters can abuse it very well, just not as good as MK.

can we atleast agree that a lgl on mk only is much better than a universal lgl? he's the only one with the problem

edit: orion I'll mm ur gaw no anti planking rules
No, he is not the only problem. The rule was implemented when he demonstrated how effectively can be done, but like i said, other characters can do it to a point where it can be considered a huge problem. This potentially stalls the match and puts your opponent in a very disadvantage situation where the risk vs reward is heavily in the plankers favor, to just limit one character would be silly, and unjust.

LOL



Dude, just make gliding under the stage more than once illegal, and then scrooging won't exist, and then have a LGL that is like 30. Then planking (not just with MK) and scrooging (not just with MK) won't be overpowered.

This game is bad and needs those rules.

I'm going to plank everyone at tournaments now. :)
Thank you. Very truthful words. I still suggest the the LGl to be 35 as the limit though.

Universal LGL. Just because it's more Effective when MK does it, doesn't mean pit/rob/gaw aren't broken when they do it.
This pretty much sums up everything I said about the LGL and why it should be universal. I changed the word broken to effective, since MK is the only one who has an invincible planking game.

Inui with the creeper post to silence the haters

Good work

ShadowLink i've read too much of your posts today, you talk a lot, this arguing is silly.

RJ, what is your proposal?
Yea, I think it is time. I will post it very shortly.
 

CT Chia

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Messages
24,416
Location
Philadelphia
If you honestly thing ledge camping with characters not named MK is incredibly effective and ban worthy... you don't play this game enough or know enough about it, and it's not always in the campers favor. I find that a lot of my ledge abuse is because the opponent doesn't know how to fight it. Look at the 3 main ledge campers... ROB is in a disadvantage in the fact that he can't recharge his upB. If Pit is forced to use his upB you can tap him out of it to kill him. GaW can be gimped at early percents if you hit him after he uses his double jump and send him at a bad angle as he can be edgehogged pretty easily.

Tell me, what other characters have broken ledge play besides MK? Sounds like you want to make a ruleset that's enjoyable in your own opinion, not what's truly fair and not.
 

ShadowLink84

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
9,007
Location
Middle of nowhere. Myrtle Beach
As much as you people disregard his posts, he is speaking the truth. There is no point in just limiting MK and no one else. The LGL should stay universal, since like I said previously, other characters can abuse it very well, just not as good as MK.
Surprisingly while it may seem I disregard posts. I do actually take things into account.
I am just a hardass since being nice only means you get trolls.
Like yes and kai.


No, he is not the only problem. The rule was implemented when he demonstrated how effectively can be done, but like i said, other characters can do it to a point where it can be considered a huge problem. This potentially stalls the match and puts your opponent in a very disadvantage situation where the risk vs reward is heavily in the plankers favor, to just limit one character would be silly, and unjust.
I want you to provide evidence where ROB, PIT, and G&W have planking tactics that are incredibly effective and warrant limitation.

Unfortunately, the current information we have supports that they are not as much of a threat as you would make them seem.
the data was made avaialble in tactic by DMG and we have seen in practice that these characters can be kicked off the ledge by many characters.

I await your argument in regards to those characters.


Yea, I think it is time. I will post it very shortly.
All right in that case, I would like you to post me the above argument in regards to the above mentioned character's planking ability.
 

Kaiber Kop

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
4,539
Location
Springfield
Surprisingly while it may seem I disregard posts. I do actually take things into account.
I am just a hardass since being nice only means you get trolls.
Like yes and kai.
Despite it being the exact opposite which caused you to receive trolling posts in a situation where I mostly agree with you........makes plenty of sense
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,423
ok, here we go.

BRAWL RULESET

3 stock
8 minute time limit
Best 2 of 3. finals matches (losers/winners/grand) being best 3 of 5
Double Elimination
Items are OFF including smash ball

Doubles:

• Team attack ON
• Life stealing is allowed

Set format (In Order of Procedure):
Opponents choose their characters for the first match *
Opponents start the stage striking procedure
Each player may announce one stage to be banned for counterpicks of the set
The first game is played, using the stage chosen during step 2
The loser of the previous match announces the next match's stage from either the Starter Stage List or the Counter Stage List
The winner of the previous match chooses their character
The loser of the previous match chooses their character
Repeat steps 5-7 for all proceeding matches



Neutral Stages: Each player can alternately strike a stage until one stage is left. That stage is then played.

Neutrals

Final Destination
Battlefield
Yoshi's Story (Brawl)
Smashville
Lylat
Pokemon Stadium 1
Castle Siege/ Battleship Halberd


Counter Picks

Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Castle Siege/ Battleship Halberd
PictoChat
Brinstar
Norfair** (Debatable)



BANNED STAGES:

If a stage isn't on the Neutral or Counterpick list it is BANNED. (Although any teams/players may play on a banned stage as long as BOTH players/teams agree to it.)

Stage Banning: Each player / team may select up to 1 stages that will be banned from the tournament set

Counterpick Rule: The loser of the match first chooses the stage that the next match of the set will be played on. The opponent, then, makes the choice of changing character or not. than the loser of the match selects his/her character.

Extra Rules

Double blind character selection may be called for the first match

• 35 Ledge grab rule, 40 for Norfair ( if you time out each other in a match and you go over 35 ledge grabs you lose that match. )

• Scrooging: If you fly under the stage, you must land on the stage in order to repeat flying under the stage again. The moving platform, or any other platform that is distant from the stage (IE: Smashvilles Moving platform) does not count as landing on the stage. First offence is a warning, second offence is a loss of stock, 3rd offence is a loss of set.

• All Infinites are banned excluding Ice climbers Chain Grabs, and all small step chain grabs are banned. Wall infinites are NOT banned.

• All Excessive "Stall" tactics are banned.
• Controller Mods are banned

*Violation of any rule is punishable by non-refunded disqualification

In the event of a TIE at the end of the time limit, the player with the most stocks wins. If both players have one stock then it is decided by percentage. If both players have ONE STOCK and SAME PERCENTAGE the players will quit the SUDDEN DEATH, set the stock to one, and start a match with stage being the same as where they had the tie. This will determine the winner.

Each Round is best of three matches; Grand/Losers/Winners Finals are best of five matches*

Singles seeding will be based on Region/Rankings with some courtesy to crews – you will be spaced evenly as to prevent playing each other in the first round. One of the two criteria must be fulfilled in ordered to be favored. You MUST have 3 or more people in a group hailing from the same region, or you must be part of a crew. Teams seeding will also be seeded in the same way.

_______________________________

As you can see, the changes are slight. I added that all Infinite's are banned excluding Ice climbers Chain Grabs, and all small step chain grabs are banned. The LGL to be 35 max, and 40 if norfair would be allowed. I also added extra stages for starters. This is my proposal in a short summery. I also added this to the OP.

@Shadow link, I meant people disregarding your posts, not you disregarding others. I will gladly answer your question shortly as well. I have seen DMG's posts, in fact, I know them pretty well by heart on terms of information. By any means I never said that every person who can plank has a broken planking game, I only stated that just limiting one character would be pointless while others can do it fairly well also. I am aware of GW's, pits, and even robs lesser ability to plank the ledge as effectively as MK, but it does not stop the fact that they can well... plank the ledge. I speak to you respectfully because no one else has so far, but to just limit one character would be senseless since others can preform it as well, even if it is not as effective. I clearly stated earlier that by planking the ledge, it enables a player to put himself in a very disadvantageous position to where characters have to come off of the stage to end it. Because of this, the person who is planking gains a tremendous advantage knowing that if the players messes up in anyway, it guarantees damage or a stock. I am aware of the plankers disadvantage situation as well, but the trade off for the situation does not equal the same amount as the versa. I value your input, but since this is NJ's opinion even if you prove yourself the end result relies on what the state as a whole wants. However, I do not mind you persuading people to see your perspective.

@Chibo: The above statement applies to you as well.
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,423
@Ksizzle: I just want to get something cleared up on my part. I am not doing this because just of metaknight, infact, this has very little to do with metaknight. I just had an idea to possibly add more diversity to our stage listings and rules, and I hope you understand =]
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,423
Repeating just in case people missed this because of a new page starting.

BRAWL RULESET

3 stock
8 minute time limit
Best 2 of 3. finals matches (losers/winners/grand) being best 3 of 5
Double Elimination
Items are OFF including smash ball

Doubles:

• Team attack ON
• Life stealing is allowed

Set format (In Order of Procedure):
Opponents choose their characters for the first match *
Opponents start the stage striking procedure
Each player may announce one stage to be banned for counterpicks of the set
The first game is played, using the stage chosen during step 2
The loser of the previous match announces the next match's stage from either the Starter Stage List or the Counter Stage List
The winner of the previous match chooses their character
The loser of the previous match chooses their character
Repeat steps 5-7 for all proceeding matches



Neutral Stages: Each player can alternately strike a stage until one stage is left. That stage is then played.

Neutrals

Final Destination
Battlefield
Yoshi's Story (Brawl)
Smashville
Lylat
Pokemon Stadium 1
Castle Siege/ Battleship Halberd


Counter Picks

Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Castle Siege/ Battleship Halberd
PictoChat
Brinstar
Norfair** (Debatable)



BANNED STAGES:

If a stage isn't on the Neutral or Counterpick list it is BANNED. (Although any teams/players may play on a banned stage as long as BOTH players/teams agree to it.)

Stage Banning: Each player / team may select up to 1 stages that will be banned from the tournament set

Counterpick Rule: The loser of the match first chooses the stage that the next match of the set will be played on. The opponent, then, makes the choice of changing character or not. than the loser of the match selects his/her character.

Extra Rules

Double blind character selection may be called for the first match

• 35 Ledge grab rule, 40 for Norfair ( if you time out each other in a match and you go over 35 ledge grabs you lose that match. This only applies if you run the timer to 0)

• Scrooging: If you fly under the stage, you must land on the stage in order to repeat flying under the stage again. The moving platform, or any other platform that is distant from the stage (IE: Smashvilles Moving platform) does not count as landing on the stage. First offence is a warning, second offence is a loss of stock, 3rd offence is a loss of set.

• All Infinites are banned excluding Ice climbers Chain Grabs, and all small step chain grabs are banned. Wall infinites are NOT banned.

• All Excessive "Stall" tactics are banned.
• Controller Mods are banned

*Violation of any rule is punishable by non-refunded disqualification

In the event of a TIE at the end of the time limit, the player with the most stocks wins. If both players have one stock then it is decided by percentage. If both players have ONE STOCK and SAME PERCENTAGE the players will quit the SUDDEN DEATH, set the stock to one, and start a match with stage being the same as where they had the tie. This will determine the winner.

Each Round is best of three matches; Grand/Losers/Winners Finals are best of five matches*

Singles seeding will be based on Region/Rankings with some courtesy to crews – you will be spaced evenly as to prevent playing each other in the first round. One of the two criteria must be fulfilled in ordered to be favored. You MUST have 3 or more people in a group hailing from the same region, or you must be part of a crew. Teams seeding will also be seeded in the same way.

_______________________________

As you can see, the changes are slight. I added that all Infinite's are banned excluding Ice climbers Chain Grabs, and all small step chain grabs are banned. The LGL to be 35 max, and 40 if norfair would be allowed. I also added extra stages for starters. This is my proposal in a short summery. I also added this to the OP.
 

Orion*

Smash Researcher
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
4,503
Location
Dexters Laboratory
I'm going to plank everyone at tournaments now. :)
something in me doubts this

Don't censor bypass, you look like an idiot when you do.
thats actually how i say the word

IC cg's aren't limited. It is impossible to limit them.
they are limited past 300% to prevent stallying

Edit: MK gets around LGL's. Grabbing the ledge a mere 15 times=auto loss at the end?
TERRIBLE idea.
Two reasons.
1. MK can get around it.
2. Its a stupid idea.
yes
If we are trying to limit MK for experimentation purposes, what about sharking? Sharking makes MK extremely broken on stages which you can come up from below the stage like Delfino, Brinstar, etc. Of course sharking would have to be given a reasonable definition. My personal definition would be "attacking from below the stage so your opponent can't hit you" or somewhere along those lines. It would really balance MK on stages like that. Coming up that way to recover though would be legal though. As for scrooging, ban it. It's really broken and just getting rid of it would be fair. Although these rules would also affect a few other characters like ROB and Pit, I believe it's fair.

I have no opinion on more neutrals, but I think we should add PS2 and Pictochat. They really aren't bad stages.
you look like a scrub just so you know
If his next few posts make me laugh as much as the last....I intend to keep going. Did you not see the pics?



No life + No name + non-placing=...........?
lolololololl

You like little boys.
i love you and kai XDD

edit: i would care and type a legit response to you shadow but.... i dont care. and nothing we say in this thread will actually change nj rules unless there is some drastic reason. so theres no point

also rj, if the time doesnt run out. do LGLs matter?

also, teams lgl?
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,423
something in me doubts this


thats actually how i say the word

they are limited past 300% to prevent stallying



yes

you look like a scrub just so you know

lolololololl


i love you and kai XDD

edit: i would care and type a legit response to you shadow but.... i dont care. and nothing we say in this thread will actually change nj rules unless there is some drastic reason. so theres no point

also rj, if the time doesnt run out. do LGLs matter?

also, teams lgl?
I should add that in, but LGL will not be affected as long as the timer does not run out. It will only be accounted if the timer times out.

Also, I feel that a LGL in teams is not necessary.
 
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