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Guide Intro To Samus + Character Match-Up's
- Thread starter AIDS
- Start date
Underdog985
Smash Rookie
I been trying to learn Samus for a bit but I developed a habit of fast falling nairs and getting punished with shield-grabs. I think it started cuz i thought I read somewhere if you L-cancel a nair into someone's shield you should be able to jab right after you land and interrupt the grab. Is this true Or am I just doing it wrong?
ihavespaceblondes
Smash Master
If you start the nair before you hit the shield, even if you l-cancel properly pretty much every character in the game can still grab you. There are a variety of ways around this however:
1) SPACE BETTER. This may not help with characters like Marth and Sheik, but against people with short grab ranges you can hit them with the front tip of the nair and they won't be able to grab you. SPACE BETTER is probably the best way to improve as a Samus player whenever you run into trouble.
2) Land behind their shield. Most characters can't grab you there, but watch out for them jumping out of shield to hit you instead.
3) Delay the nair. Many people will expect you to nair above the shield, giving them a free grab, so they'll keep the shield up even if you don't do anything as you fall through their shield. Then, at the last second before you hit the ground, nair -> l-cancel -> whatever. This way, there will be enough stun on their shield for you to avoid getting grabbed.
I would like to emphasize this point. Shield pressure on any character is a great strategy. Learning to force someone to be defensive and capitalizing on it is, usually, a very good way to seize control of an entire match. If you can manipulate someone into staying in their shield, you have the power to limit many, many options they have.
Just point that out.
VA
Smash Hero
landing with nair and up B straight away is pretty good if your opponent is shield grabbing you a lot, I found that it comes out faster...
Geist
Smash Master
^^ I think it really depends on the stage and matchup. Vs. Marth/Shiek/Spacies, screw attack can be more usefull than jabs, but screw attack can get punished more on FD.
Screw attack's first hitbox comes out on frame 4 and jab comes out frame 3, so unless the guy is frame perfect, you can choose according to whatever the situation is.
Screw attack's first hitbox comes out on frame 4 and jab comes out frame 3, so unless the guy is frame perfect, you can choose according to whatever the situation is.
Umbreon is hilarious.
VA
Smash Hero
yeah well I just mean the guy said he was getting grabbed when he landed from nair, I'd just up B instead of trying to jab, FD is the only stage you can get punished easily and my DI in up B goes pretty far so usually I don't get punished.
Has anyone discovered yet if you can tell which way a person is going to DI out of your screw attack based off where the character "bounces" between hitboxes on the move?
For example, are they DI'ing left if the character is on the left side of the move or on the right? (maybe there is no correlation at all even)
For example, are they DI'ing left if the character is on the left side of the move or on the right? (maybe there is no correlation at all even)
ihavespaceblondes
Smash Master
The hitbox for jab may come out 1 frame faster than the screw attack, but the screw attack makes you invincible for the first 5 frames.
Tyser
Smash Champion
I gots a question :D
Is it okay to UpB a Marth/Falcon/Sheik all the time or nah? I was told a while back not to UpB these characters because they'll more than likely **** my heart. A question I should already know but Id like an answer
Is it okay to UpB a Marth/Falcon/Sheik all the time or nah? I was told a while back not to UpB these characters because they'll more than likely **** my heart. A question I should already know but Id like an answer
Tyser
Smash Champion
Okay, Ill start abusing it against this Marth player I play against then. He's always in my grill and I dont UpB because I was told not to, a while while ago.
EDIT: LOL I got 5 ban points for saying I am are gayer than two gay dudes having **** sex. I hate myself.
EDIT: LOL I got 5 ban points for saying I am are gayer than two gay dudes having **** sex. I hate myself.
ssbxBacklash
Smash Apprentice
I got banned :'(
Tyser?
In... a... different body?
HOLY CRAP! TYSER IS A BODY SNATCHER! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES HE'S GOING TO...
Wait, my tag is SA-X and that is easily equivalent. Ok, continue to snatch, just leave mine alone.
EruptingBurningFinger
Smash Cadet
How do I fight against a campy Fox?
Question his ability to play Fox well... and never play on Hyrule temple for any reason.
On a more serious note. Explain what you mean by "campy." Does he run away and shoot lazors. Does he hide in his shield a lot. Does he ledge hang frequently. What does he do to camp?
EruptingBurningFinger
Smash Cadet
Runs and shoots lasers.
Stand and shoot missiles.
Flavor_Flav
Smash Journeyman
I got IP banned, luckily its easy as hell to get around those.
Geist
Smash Master
^^lol
what the hell did you do?
There really isn't much you can do, and I'm assuming the Marths you face are decent to good. Shielding generally works against fair-happy marths, but you might want to tone it down with grabbers.
Keep your distance and make him uncomfortable with missiles and other explosives.
My advice is too general.
what the hell did you do?
spacing, spacing spacing. Seriously. Also, don't jump into the **** and nair alot.
There really isn't much you can do, and I'm assuming the Marths you face are decent to good. Shielding generally works against fair-happy marths, but you might want to tone it down with grabbers.
Keep your distance and make him uncomfortable with missiles and other explosives.
My advice is too general.
Yours?
I would just say dodge and punish. That's all you can do.
Geist
Smash Master
I've also realized that any potential combo you can pull on Marth can be stopped by fair. CCdsmash doesn't work either. Naw, the most effective thing is delaying that nair and really well timed hits. It's sort of like a lesser ganny vs. marth matchup, where it boils down to spacing and punishing, and doing everything in moderation; don't be too bold.
speaking of modeartion, my, the mods are owning tyser today.
speaking of modeartion, my, the mods are owning tyser today.
CCing against Marth is like saying, "Hey, did you want some free damage on this already hard match? Ok."
And let that be a lesson to everyone else. Mods are biased. You get infractions for making fun of actual people, you get banned for making fun of mods.
duals
Smash Journeyman
Ha ha ha.... i just got back from a BBQ and they had smash out.... this guy who i've been playing with for over a year now all ways wrecks me..... When he chose Falco, my mind remebered every single post coreygames said about " up B!, UP B!, UP B!"..... so i did and it worked out fine..... thanks coreygames!!!!! ^-^
Just as planned
Sure thing man. I told you, it completely shuts down their everything. It makes Falco players have to do... something else. Most aren't ready for something so fleeting as not SHFF lazors, into a Dair to shine, repeat.
duals
Smash Journeyman
there were sometimes when i messed up on it though..... like i did it early and he just shined, Dsmash combed me.... hes the type of player where he learns your strategy very quickly and won't let you do it again..... on the plus side he has no mindgames...lol
Geist
Smash Master
Spotdodges to screw attacks work so well, it seems too good to be true. Midair Falco battles are actually a lot easier than you may think too.
Counter pick battlefield too <3 Falco recovering on bf = lol
Also, does anyone besides me counterpick falco with kongo jungle? You can screw attack him to **** under the stage. You never have to worry about recovering again, not to mention he can't sweetspot the edge for his life.
Counter pick battlefield too <3 Falco recovering on bf = lol
Also, does anyone besides me counterpick falco with kongo jungle? You can screw attack him to **** under the stage. You never have to worry about recovering again, not to mention he can't sweetspot the edge for his life.
You get banned for no reason, cant forget that one.
How do you fight against a Sheik whose all up in your shit all the time? Ive tried UpBing but she just comes down and ***** me. Ive tried to keep my distance and just Ftilt and run and stuff, didnt work. Anytime I get jabbed or Ftilted by her I feel like there is nothing I can do and its just real weird. Any thoughts?
How do you fight against a Sheik whose all up in your shit all the time? Ive tried UpBing but she just comes down and ***** me. Ive tried to keep my distance and just Ftilt and run and stuff, didnt work. Anytime I get jabbed or Ftilted by her I feel like there is nothing I can do and its just real weird. Any thoughts?
-Tyser
Sheik?
Still working on it really. She is just such a hard matchup. Everything combos into everything. And when she's not comboing you she is tossing needles in every direction. She can easily thwart your recovery and your spam is next to meaningless. It's a tough matchup. Aside from what's on the front page on this thread, I don't have much to say about this character aside from hope you get lucky and make sure to edgeguard well.
Also, I'm about to update my character matchup area with stage counterpicks and strikes. Stay tuned.
Update complete
Still working on it really. She is just such a hard matchup. Everything combos into everything. And when she's not comboing you she is tossing needles in every direction. She can easily thwart your recovery and your spam is next to meaningless. It's a tough matchup. Aside from what's on the front page on this thread, I don't have much to say about this character aside from hope you get lucky and make sure to edgeguard well.
Also, I'm about to update my character matchup area with stage counterpicks and strikes. Stay tuned.
Update complete
Well, then give a suggestion. I'm a know it all but I can't know it all.
Aftermath
Smash Champion
I don't really have anyone to play, so what kinds of things would you suggest to practice? I've always just done stuff with tech skill, but sort of don't know where to go from there.
Also, if Marth fsmashes your shield (not light shield), you can wd out and jab him. It'll barely happen, but might be handy to know, since its the only thing you can do to -safely- punish a fsmash on your shield. Ftilt and dsmash are barely too slow, so he can shield, but an angled ftilt might be worth the risk since it has a chance to shield stab and probably can't be punished.
Also, if Marth fsmashes your shield (not light shield), you can wd out and jab him. It'll barely happen, but might be handy to know, since its the only thing you can do to -safely- punish a fsmash on your shield. Ftilt and dsmash are barely too slow, so he can shield, but an angled ftilt might be worth the risk since it has a chance to shield stab and probably can't be punished.
Recently, since I'm in the same situation, I've been setting the comps to between lvl 6-8 and then randomly picking a character for them to play as (the close/open player thing). Then, at the stage screen, I try to figure out how to counterpick the match I'm going into. That way I can figure out if I'm taking all the available stages to their advantage, not just the neutral ones.
What about a grab? I'm not normally an advocate of "random" grabbing, but if worring about him putting up his shield is a fear then perhaps shield grabbing out of him hitting your shield might work?
I'd have to try it.
BTW:
Sup Aftermath. Been a while.
Aftermath
Smash Champion
Hmm, that might be good practice, especially for getting used to the odd stages.
As for grabs, it's really about how much risk you want to take. I think my experience with grabbing was basically, tried it and got fair'd by the Marth, didn't try again. But, logically, if they are slow, even if they jump to do an fair, since you are right on top of them ,the grab will grab out of the air. SO yeah, might be something to experiment with, for how slow they'd have to react to still hit you, I'd hope that it's not like they can jab or ftilt you out of the grab, since ftilt/dsmash are 2x slower than the jab, and grab 3x the ftilt/dsmash.
Also, the extended grapple is out for the same amount of time as the regular one. It takes longer to get out to full range, but pulls in a lot faster, so it also has a longer window of being able to grab.
As for grabs, it's really about how much risk you want to take. I think my experience with grabbing was basically, tried it and got fair'd by the Marth, didn't try again. But, logically, if they are slow, even if they jump to do an fair, since you are right on top of them ,the grab will grab out of the air. SO yeah, might be something to experiment with, for how slow they'd have to react to still hit you, I'd hope that it's not like they can jab or ftilt you out of the grab, since ftilt/dsmash are 2x slower than the jab, and grab 3x the ftilt/dsmash.
Also, the extended grapple is out for the same amount of time as the regular one. It takes longer to get out to full range, but pulls in a lot faster, so it also has a longer window of being able to grab.
I don't think enough people utilize the odd stages. I think I found a new love for Corneria due to Samus' supremacy (it seems) in the area behind the fin in all case excluding Fox, of course.
Yeah, theory will only take you so far. Perhaps I'll have a chance to try this soon.
Noted.
ihavespaceblondes
Smash Master
....I've always wd out and dsmashed when Marth fsmashed my shield, and only had a problem when I accidentally did it too late. As long as it's not a tipper hit, you should have time.
duals
Smash Journeyman
When ever i approach my friends marth...He just SH Nair's me.... i can't find any way around this....
this is adding to the WD out of shield talk...
this is adding to the WD out of shield talk...
Geist
Smash Master
^^ the first problem there would be approaching Marth with Samus.
If he's lunging at you too far through the air so that wding back would still hit you, shield or spot dodge. You'd also be surprised on how often wding towards him saves your ***.
If he's using mango-jiggly-spacing, wd back and punish him with a long reaching move or a grab.
If you REALLY can't find a way around it, try a better approach. That's all I can say.
If he's lunging at you too far through the air so that wding back would still hit you, shield or spot dodge. You'd also be surprised on how often wding towards him saves your ***.
If he's using mango-jiggly-spacing, wd back and punish him with a long reaching move or a grab.
If you REALLY can't find a way around it, try a better approach. That's all I can say.
AIDS
Smash Lord
Samus has a lot of long reach moves. So space him out cause Marths Nair is very lagy. Hit him as he ends the move. Or Fsmash him, Ftilt him etc. Even up tilt!
Also you can space and time it so you can get a grab out of that.