Into The New World :: Generation V Competitive Metagame Discussion

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Shadow Ball Focus Blast is fairly **** enough coverage.

If that sentence makes sense.

 

[kirbyraeg]

yeah that makes sense, cuz it does ****

ALSO Copy/pasted from a post I made earlier:

Dotekkotsu @ Evolution Stone
252 HP/4 Atk/252 SpDef
Careful / Guts

Bulk Up
Payback
Drain Punch
Mach Punch

Before you dismiss this set as an inferior Roobushin, this is meant to function differently to Roob. It has a lot of the same counters and can't muscle through any flying types before getting a few bulk ups, but its special and physical bulk pre-setup is what makes it worth using, enabling it to lure in and beat psychics/ghosts who might try to counter it. (it hits 374 HP/309 Def/327 SpDef with evo stone btw)

With the above EVs this is how much special/physical bulk it has:
Modest Specs Shandera Overheat: (81.02% - 95.45%)
Timid Specs Latios Draco Meteor: (66.04% - 78.07%)
Timid LO Alakazam Psychic: (77.01% - 90.37%)
Timid LO Gengar Shadow Ball: (32.89% - 38.77%)
Modest Specs Togekiss Air Slash: (73.80% - 87.17%)
Timid LO Deoxys-S Psycho Boost: (91.98% - 109.09%)!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
+2 Jolly Doryuuzu Earthquake: (68.45% - 81.02%)
+2 Jolly Garchomp Outrage: (80.21% - 94.65%) (similar calcs for terakion's CC, dnite's/mence's outrages at +2, etc.)
+1 Adamant Gyarados Bounce: (90.37% - 107.49%)
Adamant LO Blaziken Hi Jump Kick: (58.56% - 68.98%)
252 Atk Gliscor Acrobat (110 Power): (59.36% - 70.59%)


Short of STAB Psycho Boost, you're not going to 1hko this guy without boosts. His typing lets him lure in and beat a lot of his special counters by hitting them with Payback+Mach Punch while tanking their hits, and checking frailer offensive threats while recovering HP with Drain Punch. He loses hard to Gliscor/Landlos/most other flying-types, but so does roob. ;( This set can clear the way for sweepers that would be checked by fast psychics/Lati@s/etc., like SD Blaziken.

Gimme some opinions guys XD

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

I am curious of the specs after 1 Bulk Up.

If you wouldnt mind running some numbers again. It is definitely interesting.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Sure I can do that =D

+2 Jolly Excadrill EQ vs. +1: (45.72% - 54.01%)
+2 Garchomp Outrage (Terakion CC, other +2 STAB 120 BP moves by 130 Atk users) vs. +1: (53.74% - 63.37%)
+2 Adamant LO Gallade Psycho Cut vs. +1: (86.63% - 102.67%)
+1 Adamant LO Gyarados Waterfall vs. +1: (37.17% - 44.12%)
CB Scizor Bullet Punch vs. +0/+1: (33.16% - 39.30%)/(22.46% - 26.47%)
CB Encourage Darmantian Flare Blitz vs. +0/+1 (Strongest Physical attack in the game other than V-Generate!): (90.64% - 106.68%)/(60.43% - 71.39%)
If you get a Bulk Up in first, he can even beat Roobushin.
Roob Drain Punch vs. +1: (19.52% - 23.26%)
+1 Dotekkotsu Drain Punch vs. Roob: (32.13% - 37.92%)

 

[choknater]

discovered by RNG

 

[Night-san]

...Sounds interesting. I'll want to see how this fares in comparison to Conkeldurr, considering that I use him on my team.

 

[Plum]

So does rain really exist anymore? If so, what form does it really exist in?
I would love to make a post Drizzle/Swift Swim ban rain team but I'm really not sure where to begin.
You still have Hydration to abuse, but that doesn't pack the same power level as Swift Swim.

Would it be worth it to start building towards sweepers like Dragonite?
In the rain he has STAB 100% accurate Hurricane, 100% accurate Thunder, and rain boosted Surf.
100 SpA isn't too exciting, but it's still enough to make moves that powerful hit hard. I don't know if I would go with Specs, because I love the option of Roosting Multiscale back up when given the chance, like on the switch.

 

[ss118]

Just use the move Rain Dance + Swift Swim. Still really anti-metagame, and while it isn't as easy to abuse as it was with just Rest Politoed, you spread the move across numerous sweepers which makes it harder to beat in a sense.

Politoed is also decent for just granting power behind moves like you suggested, but it also grants itself power to use behind Specs/ Scarf, as well as teammates and to hide specific weaknesses(Scizor in Rain is always annoying). You also have genesekto, among others, as well as some Hydration stats and others. Rain Stall with Tenta using rain dish and others is also decently strong and shouldn't be underestimated, though they crutch a bit on nattorei to help with SS/ Dragons too much.

Really, just because it isn't "easy" anymore, people avoid it.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I wish there were more viable users of Toxic Spikes. And that a few more things learned it.

 

[Moozle]

I think I might start running Breloom with sunny day on my Sun team. Use sunny day after they get rid of the sun and then nail the Hippowdon/Tyranitar once it comes back in to start sand again. There's actually a lot of options for that role. I had no idea that almost every pokemon learns Sunny Day.

 

[ss118]

Use Rain Dance Breloom.

Edit: Really, no RD?

 

[choknater]

ima use technician magical leaf roserade. LOL

 

[Gates]

That could actually work. Sludge Bomb wouldn't get a boost, but it's got a high base power already. You'd need to make Hidden Power have a BP of 60 though to get a Technician boost.

 

[M.K]

Does Roserade learn that new base 40 Poison move that decreases Sp. Defense by 2 levels?

 

[Wave⁂]

It's too bad she doesn't get Water Pulse. There's pretty much no four attack to choose. Toxic Spikes or Substitute would be too bad, I guess.

Does Roserade learn that new base 40 Poison move that decreases Sp. Defense by 2 levels?

No. Though Venom Shock could be interesting in combination with Toxic Spikes. Too bad most of the things that'll switch into Roserade don't give a **** about them.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

ima use technician magical leaf roserade. LOL

I suppose if you're running Sunny Day you could always throw down a Technician Weather Ball, but Hidden Power [Fire] is stronger. Dunno how base 60 Hidden Power will affect the IV though. Shame Giga Drain got a power raise.

 

[Wave⁂]

Fire Weather Ball 100 base power. Technician HP Fire, in addition to not not being HP Ice, is worse.

 

[choknater]

hm, i didnt think of using low bp hidden power... thats a pretty good idea!

wow... tech roserade with acid bomb? that would be AMAZING, but unfortunately it doesnt learn acid bomb

 

[Sync.]

I'm pretty sure Ally and I could win in reg doubles in Gen 5 Pokemon. We're definitely top 3 in the world.

Ally is so good at abusing crit hit ratios

 

[kirbyraeg]

probably not lol

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Go play UltiMario and Articanus, then.

 

[ss118]

I'm pretty sure Ally and I could win in reg doubles in Gen 5 Pokemon. We're definitely top 3 in the world.

Ally is so good at abusing crit hit ratios

I'm confused by what you mean by "reg" doubles?

Do you mean where it's 2 v 2 players and both pick 3 pokemon?

If that's the case, then I can't play until I get B or W(and I probably won't).

 

[choknater]

top dw ou ladder's gettin harder

which is good for me, cuz i just get to further refine my team

man i love laddering lol

 

[kirbyraeg]

I still get off on ladder with my jank teams

that dotekkotsu just survived a critical hit Life Orb Gengar's Shadow Ball after SR LOL

 

[Wave⁂]

dat rng team

We should have another random tournament, except instead of three required Pokemon everyone has to choose from a pool of 12-ish Pokemon.

 

[M.K]

Can someone specify what Final Gambit does?
The way I understand it, if the Pokemon using Final Gambit has 100 HP left, then their HP reduces to 0 and the opponent takes 100 HP of damage. Is this correct?

 

[Wave⁂]

Yeah, that's about it. Not sure if Focus Sash is factored in.

 

[Wrath`]

I remember the day on PO when I thought it did more damage the less health you had. Funny surprise when my Sashed Ariguuad(base 145Spe bug) did 1hp damage to opposing pokemon.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Hey, do you guys think you could post a list of DEFENSIVE threats in the metagame? I'm kinda curious.

 

[Wave⁂]

Blissey
Skarmory / Gliscor / Hippowdon
Porygon2
Nattorei
Burungeru / Politoed / Slowbro / Tentacruel / Vaporeon / Gyarados
Espeon
Zapdos

 

[kirbyraeg]

kk.

i posted this in the smogon 'creative movesets' thread, but i bet it'll get glossed over just because it isn't from a respected member, so look at it here instead, where it might actually get comments:

Rampardos @ Life Orb
176 Atk/108 SpAtk/224 Spe
Naughty / Encourage

Rock Slide
Crunch
Fire Blast
Zen Headbutt/Ice Beam/Head Smash/Hammer Arm

This set slices apart B/W stall team cores and can hit things hard if used intelligently against an offensive team. Icing on the cake is that Encourage nullifies LO recoil while boosting all of its commonly-used moves. The difference between this and a similar Nidoking is that it has higher raw stats to abuse its excellent physical movepool while keeping powerful special moves to hit specific targets, all while keeping Hammer Arm via breeding. Outspeeds 4 Spe Suicune and Gliscor. It doesn't have the raw power to muscle through bulky waters in 1 hit (though he can easily 2hko bulky waters if they switch in to Rock Slide and beat some others outright via Head Smash). Crunch mauls psychics, Fire Blast gets the 1hko on Ferrothorn and hurts other steels a lot, and the last move depends on what you want him to do. Zen headbutt lets him punish greedy fighters, like Breloom/Conkeldurr coming in expecting to get a free Swords Dance/Bulk Up as you switch out in fear, Head Smash gives him additional power vs. most bulky waters, and Ice Beam lets him catch stuff like defensive Gliscor/Garchomp on the switch while also giving him a solid hit vs. Hippowdon, which might be game-changing. Hammer Arm is another option to nab a 2hko with Rock Slide+Hammer Arm vs. Porygon2 with SR, and to 1hko Scrafty.

Here's some calcs to show the power it has, and that it CAN use special attacks effectively:

Fire Blast vs. 252/252 Sassy Ferrothorn: (88.64% - 104.55%) (1hko after Spikes)
Crunch vs. 252/252 Bold Jellicent: (82.67% - 97.52%) (66% chance to 1hko after Spikes)
Crunch vs. 252/252 Bold Reuniclus: (75.47% - 89.15%) (is 2hko'ed if it switches in on anything or tries to set up)
Crunch vs. 252/0 Trick Room Reuniclus: (110.38% - 130.19%)
Fire Blast vs. 252/252 Careful Skarmory: (64.07% - 76.05%) (2hko as it switches into Rock Slide)
Rock Slide vs. 252/220 Bold Zapdos: (111.75% - 132.11%)
Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP Conkeldurr: (93.24% - 110.14%) (1hko after SR)
Head Smash vs. 188 HP/252 Def Bold Vaporeon: (87.72% - 103.35%) (1hko'ed by Head Smash after SR)
Head Smash vs. 252/252 Bold Suicune: (64.85% - 76.49%) (2hko'ed by Rock Slide+Head Smash)
Rock Slide vs. 252 HP/252 Def Evolite Chansey: (48.72% - 57.53%) (2hko after any residual damage)
Rock Slide vs. 252 HP/176 Def Bold Evolite Porygon2: (38.50% - 45.19%)
Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP/176 Def Bold Evolite Porygon2: (52.94% - 62.57%)
Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP Scrafty: (94.61% - 111.98%) (1hko after SR)
Ice Beam vs. 252 HP/104 SpDef Hippowdon: (52.86% - 62.38%) (clean 2hko)

 

[Wave⁂]

Most Gliscor run 236 Speed to outrun... something, I forget. I think Breloom.

 

[The Real Gamer]

^Wave is correct. Gliscor hard counters this thing unfortunately.

I still say CM Rankurusu is the best stall breaker out there. It can beat nearly any stall Pokemon 1 on 1 but I'm sure everyone knows this already.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Problem is that stall always prepares for rank. This guy is a bit harder to prepare for, especially since you can potentially predict a switch to gliscor and Ice Beam it on the switch, and that even a 252/252 Impish gliscor takes (34.75% - 40.96%) from rock slide, meaning that even the most bulky version possible can be worn down by switching into Rock Slide/Crunch as you switch out to something that can take advantage of gliscor's weak offensive presence.

 

[choknater]

cloyster is the most godlike ice pokemon. i'm glad i have it on my team to beat both reuniclus and gliscor and any dragon.

well, it doesnt always beat reuniclus, but a +2 icicle spear is always going to do a hell of a lot of damage to anything.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

How are you going to pull off a Shell Break + Icicle Spear if Rankurusu hits you with a Psychic after your Sp. Def. drops with base 4000 Special Attack?

 

[Tenodera]

How are you going to pull off a Shell Break + Icicle Spear if Rankurusu hits you with a Psychic after your Sp. Def. drops with base 4000 Special Attack?

Focus Sash lol? I wouldn't use any (non-Dark-type) with Cloyster's Special Defense to counter a Reuniclus.

I would run Ice Beam on that Rampardos primarily for Gliscor.. None of those other options seem as useful. It looks excellent against stall.

 

[kirbyraeg]

It's kinda funny, but a long time ago people were hyping up Nidoking with Encourage as a powerful special attacker, but its spatk stat is only 20 higher than rampardos' and they both have similar special attacking moves...and rampardos trades defense and a few resistances for his crazy attack stat and actual physical moves that can be boosted by Encourage. When Gray comes out, and if he gets elemental punch movetutors, I could see him actually doing stuff with Fire Punch and Thunder Punch

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Nidoking has a neat typing. Shares the Ground-type and Water-type weaknesses, but also has Thunder Wave and Toxic / Toxic Spikes immunity, along with resisted Stealth Rock and Fighting-type moves. Also, Nidoking has a much better base Speed than Rampardos?

 

[Wave⁂]

Rampardos has about 7 times more attack power.