Orion*
Smash Researcher
yurp. killing snake below 180 makes orion a happy *** :3
but then again you dont Have to kill him....
but then again you dont Have to kill him....
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Improve your MK: Tactics, Theory-crafting, & More!
- Thread starter Player-4
- Start date
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
gimp?
Orion*
Smash Researcher
run the clock
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
omfg how did I forget that
Orion*
Smash Researcher
youre not a mk main until you have planked someone in tourny ftw
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
lol anytime someone picks japes vs me i always time them outyoure not a mk main until you have planked someone in tourny ftw
Orion*
Smash Researcher
anytime i offer to mm Anyone on hanenbow for 20 bucks they deny me :[
IIIIRICK
Smash Journeyman
i wonder why...
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Guys lets stay on topic. If you wanna continue you this conversation just move it to the General Discussion.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Lol yes, but you shouldn't be killing with Usmash.
Side note, I found this weird deal where you can SL the slanted drawing on PictoChat that keeps you in your glide and keeps your hit box out. I'll try to get my friend to upload the video soon. It doesn't have any applications but it's funny none the less.
Side note, I found this weird deal where you can SL the slanted drawing on PictoChat that keeps you in your glide and keeps your hit box out. I'll try to get my friend to upload the video soon. It doesn't have any applications but it's funny none the less.
IIIIRICK
Smash Journeyman
what percents can Usmash kill at anyways?
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
It killed a Marth at like 140% LOL. It's easy to DI out too
Orion*
Smash Researcher
the move stales itself, so actually if you read an airdodge and get only the last hit to kill its pretty legit if your shuttle is stale lol
robnking
Smash Rookie
Ok I can do pretty much everything with meta knight perfectly from recovering, spacing to comboing. The only thing I can't seem to master is meta knights uaerial combo into mach tornado star k.o. can someone give me some videos or some good words of advice??
Jem.
Smash Master
you can dash attack turn around grab at low percents. (mainly see it in the ditto)
also, can you DI Metaknights nair straight up consistently? I know I've seen it done, it seems like in a lot of cases DI'ing just straight up (when it just pops you up and looks funny) would be better than just di'ing the opposite way of it. Thoughts?
@ above poster: You shouldn't rely on that in high levels of play. You can SDI the Uair, which gives you 4-5 chances to get out of. If you see the opportunity though, just do the uair string, and once youre near the ceiling, mash b.
also, can you DI Metaknights nair straight up consistently? I know I've seen it done, it seems like in a lot of cases DI'ing just straight up (when it just pops you up and looks funny) would be better than just di'ing the opposite way of it. Thoughts?
@ above poster: You shouldn't rely on that in high levels of play. You can SDI the Uair, which gives you 4-5 chances to get out of. If you see the opportunity though, just do the uair string, and once youre near the ceiling, mash b.
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
Also Uair in no way combos into Nado.
I have no idea why this combo ever works.
I have no idea why this combo ever works.
Orion*
Smash Researcher
lol if we want to get into combos 99% of shiz doesnt work because brawl is cool like that.
Dash Attack > Grab is much better at low %, since you can just get a single hit nair and the grab > D/Fthrow gives you some follow up options.
Dash Attack is such a good move, cause you can get good follow ups, if U time it right and hit, but its also really easy to punish, compared to spaced aerials.
You have to jump before using the tornado.
Go training mode on SV against ROB.
Glide Attack > Shorthop > Uair > Jump > Uair ... >Uair > Jump > Tornado
cool trick against ICs for every character:
if U killed Nana just camp Pepe! he cant do ****
if U see that he still makes enough damage, kill him
if U got a stock lead U dont have to care about the damage, just dont get hit by any kill move, shouldnt be that hard
camping against a single climber is so easy xD
I still wait to play an ICs, who jumps into death, because he sees that he cant do **** with single climber, if I camp him xD
theunabletable
Smash Lord
It’s hilarious on SV with scrooging, I do that **** in friendlies lol.
And, yeah, dash attack > turnaround grab is really good. I land it a lot
And, yeah, dash attack > turnaround grab is really good. I land it a lot
robnking
Smash Rookie
@staco thanks a lot thanks to you and player 4 I've finally got this technique down appreciate the support!
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
<_< Kinda tight that you're all of the sudden a mod when I applied months ago and have been contributing valuable information to the matchup thread for a while...TX bias? :/
I'll read through this thread now.
I'll read through this thread now.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Uhh sorry about that? I mean is it really that big of a deal? But I mean since I am modding I can help you out with whatever you had in mind for these boards I guess. Btw, I've been contributing a bunch too so yeah...
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
No, it's not that big of a deal at all. I'm just a little mad that Hylian completely ignored my (long and detailed) request for modship and passed it to someone else a little later.
Dash attack -> turnaround grab will work in dittos from like, 0-20. After that, MK can nair or jump + dair to escape it. Around 20%, I like to do either dash attack -> nair or dash attack -> shield (because they'll try to counterattack) -> nair out of shield. Dash attack -> uair, ftilt, utilt, and Shuttle Loop are very good as well. Dash attack is probably the most important move in the ditto after ftilt and Shuttle Loop.
Against characters that are heavier and/or fall faster than MK, dash attack -> grab does not work at super low percents. They'll hit the ground and can act before you (namely talking about Falco and Snake). I'm not sure exactly what's true comboable on them at these percents, but your quickest option would be turnaround ftilt. It beats spot dodging and any of their moves, so I guess just hope they don't shield (and if they do then you can grab anyway).
So basically, it comes down to a few groups of characters when dealing with dash attack.
Virtually uncomboable: Jigglypuff, G&W, possibly Squirtle
These characters get sent flying too high at any percents, are too small, or have good escape options. I think dash attack -> nair works on G&W for a brief period of time, but he's able to up B out after taking a small amount of damage (why are you running at this character anyway?). Jigglypuff is the hardest to actually follow up on, try to clip her with a grounded up B or maybe a uair.
Easily comboed at any percents: Marth, Meta Knight, Mario, Luigi, Peach, Olimar, Sonic, Ivysaur, Charizard, Lucario, Kirby, ROB, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Pit, Diddy Kong, Yoshi, Wario, Popo, Toon Link, Zelda, Ike, Ness, Lucas
Yeah, these guys get ****ed up by dash attack combos from like, 0 to anything. They're the perfect mix of weight and falling speed for MK to chase at the height dash attack pops them. They're basically susceptible to any good follow-up move for a while. Only ones to watch out for would be Marth and MK, who can use quick counter moves (Dolphin Slash or MK's nair) if you're not careful.
Not comboable at very low percents, but are afterward: Snake, Falco, Dedede, Wolf, Sheik, Ganondorf, Captain Falcon, Link, Donkey Kong
Their weight and/or falling speed allow(s) these characters to land before MK can get a guaranteed hit after dash attacking. They can shield, roll, dodge, counter, etc. Just wait until 25%ish, and you're golden. They're actually more susceptible to combos at that point anyway, that weight/fall speed is a double edged sword.
Not comboable until some stupid percent: Fox
Yeah, he pretty much hits the ground instantly for a while. Fox sucks anyway, just do other stuff.
Obviously, most of these combos are not true combos. This is Brawl we're dealing with, and perfect (S)DI and the failure of the MK player to read it can result in an abnormal escape. Throw and aerial combo stuff in a little.
Dash attack -> turnaround grab will work in dittos from like, 0-20. After that, MK can nair or jump + dair to escape it. Around 20%, I like to do either dash attack -> nair or dash attack -> shield (because they'll try to counterattack) -> nair out of shield. Dash attack -> uair, ftilt, utilt, and Shuttle Loop are very good as well. Dash attack is probably the most important move in the ditto after ftilt and Shuttle Loop.
Against characters that are heavier and/or fall faster than MK, dash attack -> grab does not work at super low percents. They'll hit the ground and can act before you (namely talking about Falco and Snake). I'm not sure exactly what's true comboable on them at these percents, but your quickest option would be turnaround ftilt. It beats spot dodging and any of their moves, so I guess just hope they don't shield (and if they do then you can grab anyway).
So basically, it comes down to a few groups of characters when dealing with dash attack.
Virtually uncomboable: Jigglypuff, G&W, possibly Squirtle
These characters get sent flying too high at any percents, are too small, or have good escape options. I think dash attack -> nair works on G&W for a brief period of time, but he's able to up B out after taking a small amount of damage (why are you running at this character anyway?). Jigglypuff is the hardest to actually follow up on, try to clip her with a grounded up B or maybe a uair.
Easily comboed at any percents: Marth, Meta Knight, Mario, Luigi, Peach, Olimar, Sonic, Ivysaur, Charizard, Lucario, Kirby, ROB, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Pit, Diddy Kong, Yoshi, Wario, Popo, Toon Link, Zelda, Ike, Ness, Lucas
Yeah, these guys get ****ed up by dash attack combos from like, 0 to anything. They're the perfect mix of weight and falling speed for MK to chase at the height dash attack pops them. They're basically susceptible to any good follow-up move for a while. Only ones to watch out for would be Marth and MK, who can use quick counter moves (Dolphin Slash or MK's nair) if you're not careful.
Not comboable at very low percents, but are afterward: Snake, Falco, Dedede, Wolf, Sheik, Ganondorf, Captain Falcon, Link, Donkey Kong
Their weight and/or falling speed allow(s) these characters to land before MK can get a guaranteed hit after dash attacking. They can shield, roll, dodge, counter, etc. Just wait until 25%ish, and you're golden. They're actually more susceptible to combos at that point anyway, that weight/fall speed is a double edged sword.
Not comboable until some stupid percent: Fox
Yeah, he pretty much hits the ground instantly for a while. Fox sucks anyway, just do other stuff.
Obviously, most of these combos are not true combos. This is Brawl we're dealing with, and perfect (S)DI and the failure of the MK player to read it can result in an abnormal escape. Throw and aerial combo stuff in a little.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Me getting the position wasn't Hylian's doing at all actually. We're derailing topic though, so lets continue this over PMs or profile messages.
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
Meh, I don't care enough to pursue it. Guess I gotta step my contributions up even more if I want that red name.
Aerial Combos
MK is pretty much the only character with any true air combos, and certainly the only character with this much versatility in them. He can string all kinds of dumb **** together from one throw + proper read, dash attack, utilt, uair, etc. Some of this stuff is guaranteed from 0 all the way to 90 and can lead to 15-30 damage if done properly.
Uair is the most basic/broken of combo starters. Ever. It does a tiny bit of damage (6) and pops the opponent up right above MK. It comes out in two ****ing frames. It covers an enormous amount of horizontal and vertical space (seriously, only Dedede's dair flat-out outranges it from above). This move allows MK to create a huge danger zone above him that can pretty much only be bypassed by air dodging through him or moving to the sides. If you're not Wario or Yoshi, good luck moving away from it. If you air dodge through it, enjoy your nair or tornado. MK doesn't even have to hit you with this move to combo out of it, LOL!
But let's talk about when he actually does hit you. Another uair is basically guaranteed from 0-30 (or more on some characters). From super low percents, MK can do the obvious uair x4-5 to tornado/Shuttle Loop. This can be 30-40 damage, which is ridiculous. Luckily for whoever's getting hit by that (and probably the MK too, since it's a contributing factor to keeping him legal <_<), it's SDIable and can result in less than 20 damage. It doesn't take much thought to combo a non-SDIing opponent, so let's discuss what to do against one that does.
SDI can allow the opponent to go further up from the uair and hopefully outside of combo range, or further horizontally so following with more uairs is ineffective. It's pretty commonplace for most people to do either of these things nowadays, making the typical uair chain much less effective. What I like to do is stop uairing after one or two and then throw out a nair. The nair will either hit for the full 19% and knock them away, hit for 12% and knock them away, or hit for 7% and set up for another uair. After that uair, Shuttle Loop adds a final 9% and ends the combo with them in a bad position.
The rest of MK's air combos are pretty basic and easy to figure out. It all stems from uair. You can follow up with fair and dair if the opportunity presents itself, or return to the ground once you know you can't hit them again and aim to reset the juggle by punishing their landing attempt. Obviously the most rewarding are the ones that end in tornado or nair, as they deal the most damage. If you're feeling an air dodge from them and they SDI horizontally, go into a glide and glide attack them. Drill Rush if you feel ballsy, it actually can do some cool ****.
At high percents, uair up B is your only real combo, and it'll be the weak hit of up B. Still damage.
Aerial Combos
MK is pretty much the only character with any true air combos, and certainly the only character with this much versatility in them. He can string all kinds of dumb **** together from one throw + proper read, dash attack, utilt, uair, etc. Some of this stuff is guaranteed from 0 all the way to 90 and can lead to 15-30 damage if done properly.
Uair is the most basic/broken of combo starters. Ever. It does a tiny bit of damage (6) and pops the opponent up right above MK. It comes out in two ****ing frames. It covers an enormous amount of horizontal and vertical space (seriously, only Dedede's dair flat-out outranges it from above). This move allows MK to create a huge danger zone above him that can pretty much only be bypassed by air dodging through him or moving to the sides. If you're not Wario or Yoshi, good luck moving away from it. If you air dodge through it, enjoy your nair or tornado. MK doesn't even have to hit you with this move to combo out of it, LOL!
But let's talk about when he actually does hit you. Another uair is basically guaranteed from 0-30 (or more on some characters). From super low percents, MK can do the obvious uair x4-5 to tornado/Shuttle Loop. This can be 30-40 damage, which is ridiculous. Luckily for whoever's getting hit by that (and probably the MK too, since it's a contributing factor to keeping him legal <_<), it's SDIable and can result in less than 20 damage. It doesn't take much thought to combo a non-SDIing opponent, so let's discuss what to do against one that does.
SDI can allow the opponent to go further up from the uair and hopefully outside of combo range, or further horizontally so following with more uairs is ineffective. It's pretty commonplace for most people to do either of these things nowadays, making the typical uair chain much less effective. What I like to do is stop uairing after one or two and then throw out a nair. The nair will either hit for the full 19% and knock them away, hit for 12% and knock them away, or hit for 7% and set up for another uair. After that uair, Shuttle Loop adds a final 9% and ends the combo with them in a bad position.
The rest of MK's air combos are pretty basic and easy to figure out. It all stems from uair. You can follow up with fair and dair if the opportunity presents itself, or return to the ground once you know you can't hit them again and aim to reset the juggle by punishing their landing attempt. Obviously the most rewarding are the ones that end in tornado or nair, as they deal the most damage. If you're feeling an air dodge from them and they SDI horizontally, go into a glide and glide attack them. Drill Rush if you feel ballsy, it actually can do some cool ****.
At high percents, uair up B is your only real combo, and it'll be the weak hit of up B. Still damage.
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
Some MK stuff
Idk if these are old but w/e if they're old just ignore lol
Alright well the first thing is that when you do 2 uairs in 1 SH, you have a quite a bit of landing lag. you can actually buffer an air dodge and that makes it so you have less landing lag than without an air dodge. Idk how useful this is maybe for juggle or something. It's almost like L cancelling in Melee
The 2nd thing is:
When your opponent is standing on the ledge and you SL back on stage from underneath (PURPLE), if you hit them and they go toward off stage (YELLOW), you can buffer another Shuttle Loop (GREEN) to hit them far away. it wont be a grounded SL it's a double aerial SL thing
I think this works all the time if they get hit toward off stage
one other thing is when you know that sliding Fsmash thing you do with the pivot or whatever? you can do it with a dsmash & a usmash too i never knew that lmao
Idk if these are old but w/e if they're old just ignore lol
Alright well the first thing is that when you do 2 uairs in 1 SH, you have a quite a bit of landing lag. you can actually buffer an air dodge and that makes it so you have less landing lag than without an air dodge. Idk how useful this is maybe for juggle or something. It's almost like L cancelling in Melee
The 2nd thing is:
When your opponent is standing on the ledge and you SL back on stage from underneath (PURPLE), if you hit them and they go toward off stage (YELLOW), you can buffer another Shuttle Loop (GREEN) to hit them far away. it wont be a grounded SL it's a double aerial SL thing
I think this works all the time if they get hit toward off stage
one other thing is when you know that sliding Fsmash thing you do with the pivot or whatever? you can do it with a dsmash & a usmash too i never knew that lmao
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
When you do 2 Uairs in one short hop, there is almost no landing lag. The landing lag you receive is only the lag from landing the short hop. But yes, airdodging after the two Uairs allows you to buffer things.
2nd thing with the drawing is true.
3rd thing: You can do it with a lot of attacks (jab and dilt). I made a video of that for Toon Link somewhere. IDK where it is. But yeah, that's known.
2nd thing with the drawing is true.
3rd thing: You can do it with a lot of attacks (jab and dilt). I made a video of that for Toon Link somewhere. IDK where it is. But yeah, that's known.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
We should seriously use Usmash more. I thought it was ****, but it actually catches people by surprise as a kill move.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Nope, plus running upsmash is good, and random. It's a good mind game.
demonictoonlink
Smash Master
Well...like once a match is alright...
But it's quite punishable, and when you have so many options that aren't, it's usually best to stick to them.
But it's quite punishable, and when you have so many options that aren't, it's usually best to stick to them.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
Our options are really predicable though, lol I pulled if off twice in one match against a good player
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
Up smash is only good for the shock value.
It also is the best way to punish another MK's grounded shuttle loop.
It also is the best way to punish another MK's grounded shuttle loop.
Player-4
See you in 25 years
GSL is good, since only GSL and Usmash cover all possibly options out of a GSL at virtually every practical spacing. Nair is better than Uair at close GSL range. B is really only good for challenging a glide -- especially when it's off stage.
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
Grounded Shuttle Loop can be baited and they can trade their glide attack with the weak hit of your Shuttle Loop.
Usmash literally covers EVERY option.
Usmash literally covers EVERY option.