Impressions on sonic and his useability.

[InterimOfZeal]

I haven't spiked with the dair once.

Using the homing attack to kill is verryy limited. It's really really really REALLY easy to dodge. I'll try to incorporate it, but really, any time you can use it, you tend to have better attack options.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I don't think he's nearly as bad as many people are saying that he is...yes the fact that he doesn't have a kill move is definitely the worst part about him...but combo-ing doesn't look awful at this point in the game

P.S. The dair doesn't spike ever to the best of my knowledge...watched a ton of videos but I haven't seen it done in game.

ou are correct... no spike.


and, @ Chojo, yes, we all aknowledge that that's the best way to play sonic (the chasing that is... ironically, the homing attack often misses and is easy to dodge)... but it's not always effective, and it would be nice if he had solid kill moves to fall back on.

 

[samper]

hmm...so no spike for the guy with quills, that's a shame. Well I'm all out of ideas for how he can be better, though I take comfort in the fact that for all his weaknesses he seems to handle himself well against the majority of people he fights, and who knows, maybe the developers did all this intentionally so that the grand fight between sonic and mario wouldn't be a one sided one.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Mario has the advantage in that fight. Seriously.

 

[MrLegend]

There is a video out there showing that the Dair IS lag free. But only if you land just as the animation is about to end. UpB to Dair will give you no lag. I remember a while ago that that is how you L-cancel moves just by landing at the end of an animation.

also, this is a better video of the homing attack in case anyone is interested. It looks good but it does look hard to pull off against a human unless its combo'd into. The video also shows the lagless Dair that I mentioned.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=r6g1Zc6TL78

 

[samper]

Mario has the advantage in that fight? I've seen a few mario vs sonic videos and they're usually pretty neck and neck, white-knuckle affairs (kinda like every match sonic wins).

hey here's an idea for how sonic could be better. they could make a custom map that's completly enclosed with no way to launch your opponent off screen and make it a stamina fight. It'd be like an old school fighting game, that should help the little blue guy out.

 

[LuCKy]

yeah..........i love how smash boards never works when you write a huge *** post and i ****ing forgot to copy that **** so i could paste it after-_- you would think i would have learned since my sonic impression*sigh* i shouldnt of stayed up all night playing rock band lol oh well ill re write it later

 

[MrLegend]

ouch. well, i always save my work (i'm a writer) every few seconds. i learned my lesson years ago when I lost about 4 hours of writing.

 

[samper]

Just had another thought (again sorry if its already been discussed). If you get your opponent off of the ring (back throw for instance) would it be possible to chase them with foward air, the spindash that makes you hop in midair, and foward air again/double jump then use the forward air? and by possible i mean for it all to connect fast enough to where your opponent can't recover out of it. I think another guy called bugball posted a video about something like this, where you basically push your opponent off of the screen with forward air, but he showed it in training mode and not in an actual fight.
(p.s. sorry if my last few post have been asking what you all consider stupid questions, and thanks for answering me if you all do think that they're dumb)

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

it does work to spindah into an oponent near an edge, jump off with them, fair, double jump, fair and then homing attcack followed by sping back. that's a total of 5 attacks... but, unfortunately, even this hard to time & pull off manuever isn't really worth it as it's easy to DI out of, and, if you can connect well enough to prevent unfavorable DI, it still rarely kills, except at high damages or against sucktackular recoveries.

sucks about the post lucky... I was looking forawrd to it, but, you know the boards, if you are on for over an hour, it will have gone down at least 3 times in that time period.

 

[Milln]

Edit- Hedgedawg beat me to it. >O

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

I don't think you need to pull off even that many attacks unless you're going for zero-death (lawl good luck with that). You could probably just chain fair--> homing attack and then gimp the recovery if they're not Metaknight/Pit/Peach.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I don't think you need to pull off even that many attacks unless you're going for zero-death (lawl good luck with that). You could probably just chain fair--> homing attack and then gimp the recovery if they're not Metaknight/Pit/Peach.

the big problem with all these "advanced sonic strategies," however, is that they are just attempts to cover for his innability to kill.... which is fine, that's whta he needs... no the problem is that they sound so great in theory, but come up short in practice... only working somewhat, or some of the time.

I generally find gimping most recoveries rather hard in brawl... especially compared to melee. my big point was that that combo I mentioned gives a very rewarding feeling to hit with, but the outcome isn't great. cutting off parts of it makes it easier, but just that much less likely to kill. The fair edgeguard is great, but it's not... GREAT it's just... well... great in the sense that it's functional and is a way to kill without having to rely on one of his non-existent heavy hits. But it's not great in the sense that it normally can't keep an oponent off the edge, it will just delay his return and put some damage on him.


another great killing method is to chase them off the top. It's not easy, but if you find an enemy hovering near the top of the stage, use sonic's mad ups and the appropriate aerial to kill. This is much more applicable in FFAs, when someone with strength actually may have knocked an oponent skyward.

 

[Emblem Lord]

The thing is.....I think Sonic will be all about getting gimp kills of the stage.

Not outright killing. And from what I have seen, I don't think he will have too much trouble getting gimp kills.

 

[kamikaze falco]

I was playing sonic some of the weekend with a bunch of people and I have to say sonic is very strange. Like falco and snake lol. Maybe I was spinning too much I don't know. But I think he's hard to use.

 

[staindgrey]

There is a video out there showing that the Dair IS lag free. But only if you land just as the animation is about to end. UpB to Dair will give you no lag. I remember a while ago that that is how you L-cancel moves just by landing at the end of an animation.

also, this is a better video of the homing attack in case anyone is interested. It looks good but it does look hard to pull off against a human unless its combo'd into. The video also shows the lagless Dair that I mentioned.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=r6g1Zc6TL78

That's all well and good, but remember that a) he's up against a computer (lvl.9 or not, it's still predictable), and b) it's Jigglypuff. Jiggs doesn't have some recovery move that can either attack or instantly propel her upwards like most can. Try using that same homing attack against, say, Link's ^B, and it'll fail.

In other words, it's a strategy to remember, but not a surefire kill.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Agreed. Gimping recoveries is NOT easy. Despite the experiences you have with melee, brawl is NOT the same

I was playing sonic some of the weekend with a bunch of people and I have to say sonic is very strange. Like falco and snake lol. Maybe I was spinning too much I don't know. But I think he's hard to use.

you were probably spinning too much because you shouldn't be spinning much... so if you think there's a chance you were spinning too much, then you probably were.

 

[Qlink]

i think sonic has about to much speed and power in my opionon and hes to good
I think hes unfair in a unfair kinda way with his abilaty to hit the opponant 3 times in the air with his spin attack.

 

[Qlink]

i think sonic has about to much speed and power in my opionon and hes to good
I think hes unfair in a unfair kinda way with his abilaty to hit the opponant 3 times in the air with his spin attack.

 

[Qlink]

i think sonic has about to much speed and power in my opionon and hes to good
I think hes unfair in a unfair kinda way with his abilaty to hit the opponant 3 times in the air with his spin attack. Or his speed but his final smash is really good

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

really sonic is FAR from unfairly good.

 

[LarkOhiya]

I haven't played the game, so it's possible to ignore everything I say (I guess, if you wanna).

OK.

I've done some good things with sonic. and edge guarding is really easy with forward Air. I've killed people at 70% by chain Fair off the stage all the way to a wall KO and then springing back. its that good. Also I love to juggle people up and useing spring to jump up to their level and Bair KOing them. try it sometime. takes some practice so you don't over shoot them or undershoot, but if you get it down is a great combo extender/finisher. Up throw at maybe 80 to 120% and do a spring right afterwards and then forward Air for damage or back air for a KO. if your a bit short and they are above you try for an easy up air finish.

Sonics moves might not have great knock back from the stage, but the ease he has chasing the player to the edge more then makes up for it.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

OK.

I've done some good things with sonic. and edge guarding is really easy with forward Air. I've killed people at 70% by chain Fair off the stage all the way to a wall KO and then springing back. its that good. Also I love to juggle people up and useing spring to jump up to their level and Bair KOing them. try it sometime. takes some practice so you don't over shoot them or undershoot, but if you get it down is a great combo extender/finisher. Up throw at maybe 80 to 120% and do a spring right afterwards and then forward Air for damage or back air for a KO. if your a bit short and they are above you try for an easy up air finish.

Sonics moves might not have great knock back from the stage, but the ease he has chasing the player to the edge more then makes up for it.

my opinion is that it starts to make up for it, but that his lack of power is just too great for his off-the-edge kills to make up for completely

 

[RedrappeR]

Going back in the previously in the topic Hedgedawg:

You can't properly debate someone if you aren't keeping an open mind. If people on the board are disagreeing with you, even when they see some light in your post, and I'm talking about not only a majority, but two major competitive players, it's kind of a big deal. And that's not to discredit you, that's to say that you're just shrugging off both Gimpy's and Lucky's post. Now then again, you DID say that you'd take Luck's post into account whether he were to post again, so that's far beyond my reach what you would have done and I could be just looking too far back into the posts...

But you seriously aren't. Sure, you'll admit one or two things, but literally, it's almost IMMOVABLE to prove you Sonic is a decent character. What's pissing me off is it's literally NOT a debate with you. Not to mention, you didn't even bother to take into account the two suggestions I posted when you asked for them. Nor Blue Terrorist(whose name is... interesting) who posted a pretty smart idea of how to look at the character in a progressive light but apparently, let's just IGNORE that and go somewhere COMPLETELY STAGNANT TOWARDS THE TOPIC!

We already have enough evidence in the game to make sure he isn't the worst character in the game. And every time you rebutt, it's just saying the opposite of what the other person said, which really doesn't make sense, because that would mean you're playing two completely different games-- and if that's the case, then when a majority of people who have the game arguing with you don't agree... INCLUDING Lucky, Gimpyfish, and Chibosemp, it kind of aggravates people, when you just go "Whatever" to what they say, and move on as if they weren't relevant to the topic in the first place.

There are multiple arguments you've stated here which I could just go "Nope. I've seen different" but I don't. Because if it's a debate you want, then you have to find some other way besides clearly Stop-blocking a person. Because that doesn't take the topic ANYWHERE.

And it's just getting to the point really, where I just think that you suck with him. Honestly, no offense. Really. It's seriously just getting to where every other post is "GOD, he suck so much..." "Well you could try--" "BUT HE SUCKS SO MUUUUCHHH!!!" "Well, why don't" "SUUUUUCCCCCKKK" "*SIGH*"

It's an argument. Not a Debate. A debate is two people contrasting ideas progressively to find some sort of solution to the problem . An argument, is two people comparing ideas stagnantly, unwilling to take the other's position into account, in favor of overcoming it and discrediting the other individual. This is becoming the latter.

From the way you right, you seem fairly intelligent, probably one of the more intelligent posters on this board. At least take what some of the other intelligent users are saying into account as well.

And a further note: Lets try to focus on how to improve the character if he sucks so **** much as you say. But please, don't complain literally every post forward. Because you do. And it makes it seem like you're just doing this for attention, which Is why I think a lot of people are snubbing your arguments as well from time to time.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

sonic isn't good AT ALL but i dont know if i'd label him as worst just yet

 

[RedrappeR]

sonic isn't good AT ALL but i dont know if i'd label him as worst just yet

Give us MORE GIMPY! GIVE US MORE!

EDIT: And I know NOW it seems out of place but... Hedgedawg, you may want to talk about his range more. Because I think that's one of the big fall points IMO.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

lololololol@people riding Gimpy's jock.

STH reminds me of 5150/Gojira, just johning about the character non-stop.

 

[RedrappeR]

lololololol@people riding Gimpy's jock.

STH reminds me of 5150/Gojira, just johning about the character non-stop.

Because Gimpy seems like the most level headed person in this topic. And he's typed the least out of all of us.

I'm probably going to leave this thing now. I'll just wait till after the game's in the US to start spouting any more points.

Fun speaking with you all.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

sonic isn't good AT ALL but i dont know if i'd label him as worst just yet

oh no... certainly not worst... I think yoshi and C. Falcon at least are pretty well worse than sonic.

and we are trying people. I mean, we are trying to do all these nifty techniques to make sonic playable... the problem is just the small payout he gets.

take a sonic vs. luigi match for example:

luigi's return is MUCH harder to gimp now. You can still do it some, but that's going to be the ONLY way sonic can kill him.

Luigi's aerials completely outspeed, outhit and hout prioritize sonics. as do luigi's ground moves compared to sonic. Thw luigi tornado out prioritizes the spin charge and spin dash too.

simply speaking, in certain instances, sonic has about no chance of victory, barring some incredible luck or skill discrepency. Against a lot of competitors, he can do some things, but a character that can be completely shut down by multiple matchups just hurts.

if someone can get around a Luigi, I'd love to hear your strategy

 

[Chojo]

oh no... certainly not worst... I think yoshi and C. Falcon at least are pretty well worse than sonic.

and we are trying people. I mean, we are trying to do all these nifty techniques to make sonic playable... the problem is just the small payout he gets.

take a sonic vs. luigi match for example:

luigi's return is MUCH harder to gimp now. You can still do it some, but that's going to be the ONLY way sonic can kill him.

Luigi's aerials completely outspeed, outhit and hout prioritize sonics. as do luigi's ground moves compared to sonic. Thw luigi tornado out prioritizes the spin charge and spin dash too.

simply speaking, in certain instances, sonic has about no chance of victory, barring some incredible luck or skill discrepency. Against a lot of competitors, he can do some things, but a character that can be completely shut down by multiple matchups just hurts.

if someone can get around a Luigi, I'd love to hear your strategy

If all this stuff about priority is true, this makes me a very sad panda

So no matter what attack Sonic does to Luigi, he'll just get sucked up into the tornado rather than cancel it out?

 

[Emblem Lord]

It's called shielding and then proceeding to ****.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

It's called shielding and then proceeding to ****.

no... the point was that sonic can't use any of his spin dashes to approach luigi because the tornado out prioritizes it. You can't sheild out of a spindash and you can't **** a luigi with sonic.

sonic relies, for the most part, on getting enemies off the edge and either killing them, or forcing them to take lots of damage trung to recover against his fair. But luigi's aerials completely outclass sonic's so that sonic just can't do much to him. it's not like sonic can even rely on his kill moves (what precious few there are) either, because luigi has even stronger kill moves that come out quicker.

I've been racking my brain to think of ways to kill the luigi.. and short of gimping his sideB recovery when he needs it, there really is none... and if his sideB misfires, you're dead.

 

[spacemanspiff]

nice review. one thing. check some youtube vids out. mewtwo wasnt that bad. he was used by a couple people in tourneys.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

mewtwo was horrendous, taj or no taj, mewtwo is horrible.

 

[spacemanspiff]

^ na hes not really that bad. any character is good if you know how to use him. personally i sucked with him... controlls felt too sloppy. but i know a few who owned with him... here i'll find you guys a video

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2StVJfax4lc&feature=related

its not a major tourney but a tourney nonetheless

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

^ na hes not really that bad. any character is good if you know how to use him. personally i sucked with him... controlls felt too sloppy. but i know a few who owned with him... here i'll find you guys a video

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2StVJfax4lc&feature=related

its not a major tourney but a tourney nonetheless

dude, seriously, mewtwo was awful, he was the worst character in melee. you could make an argument for him being better than at least pichu, but other than that, he was rubbish

 

[InterimOfZeal]

M2 was trash, if someone did well , it's only because everyone else was worse/didn't know how to fight him.

 

[spacemanspiff]

meh. he has his strengths just like any character. not many were good with him its true. but to say that he was unplayable unless you were far superior to your opponent in ability to me is a bit of an exageration. i've seen a pichu beat a marth and a sheik. i've seen mewtwos own aswell and these weren't due to people being noobs or pros playing noobs they were legitimate matches. it all depends on your playing style.
now i'm not saying they are GOOD characters... just that they aren't terrible to the point of un playable as you guys are suggesting

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i'm not the person you tell "any character can be good if you use them right"

certain characters are just straight up bad, sorry, but its the truth.

 

[RedrappeR]

I'm sorry, but saying Mewtwo is good is like saying Dan is top tier.