Impressions on sonic and his useability.

[Repryx]

i'd just like to throw out another point on the whole character misconception thing (based on my post earlier)

the UNDERRATING of a character like sonic is similar to say the OVERRATING of a character like Ike.

While we lack control over our characters Ike is going to be breaking some skulls, his kill moves are massive and powerful and there are many many of them, he can do well enough for now, but once we learn how to control our own characters on the whole ike's effectiveness falls wayyyyyy down

same thing seems to be true with sonic, but the inverse.

"randomly doing moves" or even attempting to be strategic isn't necessarily effective until you have full control over your character, i'm not saying he will be great by any means, he seems to be lacking the potential to make him a truly great character, but I think a lot of people are shrugging him off due to both initial difficulty to use and an apparent lack of kill moves.

Just sayin' keep in mind that the game will change drastically these upcoming months. Don't write Sonic off before looking at hte big picture.

u gotta realize that Ike probably has another level up....That being said Sonic does indeed have another level....Ive only played brawl for 20 hrs but Ive seen several ways to kill with Sonic....PIT ROX GIMPY IS BROKEN! KLAW CANCEL JUMPS WTF?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

But as competitors who use sonic grow familar with him, so to will competitors who use other characters. And with sonic's lmited kill moves, they should be able to avoid them.

on the optimistic side. Side B isn't completely worthless, the fact that you can jump out of it into one of sonic's good aerials makes it nice from time to time, but I definitely wouldn't overuse it.

 

[Yoru]

I can't say much other than the fact that Sonic isn't top tier at the moment. Unless we find some way Sonic can kill easily, he'll never surpass Marth or Dedede in tiers. I'm hoping with time, Sonic will rise through the list.

...But I doubt he'll ever be top. Maybe high, but not the best of the best. ^_^

 

[DeeDoubleU]

But as competitors who use sonic grow familar with him, so to will competitors who use other characters. And with sonic's lmited kill moves, they should be able to avoid them.

Alright, this is where I simply have to call bull**** on you. This is just a clear example of you taking the pessimistic route on your idea for a character.

You don't need a lot of good kill moves. You need maybe one good kill move for each situation. If Sonic has a good air kill move and a good ground kill move (assuming they are actually good, and not just have high knockback), thats really all he needs. The rest just relies on his ability to get the opponents up to a killable percentage without abusing his kill moves.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Alright, this is where I simply have to call bull**** on you. This is just a clear example of you taking the pessimistic route on your idea for a character.

You don't need a lot of good kill moves. You need maybe one good kill move for each situation. If Sonic has a good air kill move and a good ground kill move (assuming they are actually good, and not just have high knockback), thats really all he needs. The rest just relies on his ability to get the opponents up to a killable percentage without abusing his kill moves.

they aren't "good" they are hard to hit with and he has very few of them

 

[RedrappeR]

"randomly doing moves" or even attempting to be strategic isn't necessarily effective until you have full control over your character, i

Well I meant it in the sense of how to look at the character more so. I mean Yun from SF3 is fun to pick up and play, but if you really want to be any good with him, it's going to take TIME, and lot's of it. Otherwise, he's just okay, and you'd be better off going with Ken or Chun Li, who are easy as hell to pick up.

Now while Yun's top tier, I'm not saying Sonic is. I'm just saying the same mindset can be applied at least towards the character. And this was also under the assumption the other guy had mastered his speed already.

I wish I had my original post.

 

[RuroKami]

I haven't read through this entire thread, but I agree with the original poster. I've only played with CPUs so far though.

I love Sonic and looked forward to maining him. However, I just can't deny he can't kill AT ALL. It's not unusual for me to have to get the opponent up to 150%+ just to have a chance to kill them. I've lost quite a few times even. Then I play with Lucas or Toon Link, and I'm wiping the floor with the CPUs. I start to wonder what's the point?

If items are enabled and it's 4 players, then yes Sonic is fun to use. Getting the Smash Ball is very helpful. But for 1v1 matches I'll use someone else.

 

[Astrobot7000]

I have been reading through this thread and would like to ask a question to get the general consensus from not just the original poster, but from everybody else too.

I love Sonic and plan on maining him. However, I am not a tournament gamer. I am in an odd space between casual gaming and hardcore gaming. I plan on playing SSBB alot, but never on a competitive level. I probobly wont even play if items are disabled. To me, that is what makes the game lots of fun.

SO! The question is, for a gamer such as myself who will use items and not play in a super competative scene, will Sonic be more balanced and not so weak?

 

[Milln]

With items on, everyone becomes more or less a bit more balanced and everyone has easier times getting KO's. Go for it, Astro.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

agreed.. as I've mentioned.. Items really balance them out... especially sonic. having the greatest final smash in the game helps a lot.

of course, zelda and olimar were already great and both have amazing final smashes too.

 

[LuCKy]

gimpy has more posts then everyone else........which means he is right and everyone else is wrong
*walks away*

 

[Gooche]

To throw in my 2 cents (and also preface this with I am not a tourney player as I didn't know they really existed). For now I'll fancy myself to be middle to above average player since I have no tourney exp (just based on the local scene).

I've been playing with Sonic for only about 100 matches or so trying to discover that niche in his game. Although I have been trying to find the right combo of moves I had been going at it the wrong way for about 40 matches against my friends. I was playing Sonic like I was playing a "stronger" player. Sonic can knock up the % pretty high. I think combos are the key. I think when it is released here there will be a plethora of people finding ways to make him better and his comboing ability WILL be the key.

I've been able to K.O some opponents around 90% - 95% with good timing (and a little luck).

 

[Yoru]

To throw in my 2 cents (and also preface this with I am not a tourney player as I didn't know they really existed). For now I'll fancy myself to be middle to above average player since I have no tourney exp (just based on the local scene).

I've been playing with Sonic for only about 100 matches or so trying to discover that niche in his game. Although I have been trying to find the right combo of moves I had been going at it the wrong way for about 40 matches against my friends. I was playing Sonic like I was playing a "stronger" player. Sonic can knock up the % pretty high. I think combos are the key. I think when it is released here there will be a plethora of people finding ways to make him better and his comboing ability WILL be the key.

I've been able to K.O some opponents around 90% - 95% with good timing (and a little luck).

I like your reasoning and hope you are right. I think if comboing is key, then I'm up for it. Plus, I'm a pretty lucky guy. (maybe not as much as Lucky though. )

 

[Gimpyfish62]

gimpy has more posts then everyone else........which means he is right and everyone else is wrong
*walks away*

This .

 

[E P I C]

He has more posts meaning he spends more time on these boards then other people do.. Doesnt mean he's right and everyone else is wrong lolz.. Not saying Gimpy is wrong though .. He gives out good info sometimes..

 

[Digital Angel]

He has more posts meaning he spends more time on these boards then other people do.. Doesnt mean he's right and everyone else is wrong lolz.. Not saying Gimpy is wrong though .. He gives out good info sometimes..

Recognize sarcasm much? Despite what people think, it's not THAT hard to recognize sarcasm on the internet and avoid responding idiotically to it.

 

[E P I C]

I take it youre being sarcastic right now... lol... Thanks for spamming kid, as I am right now...

Also, HAPPY VALENTINES DAY!

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

To throw in my 2 cents (and also preface this with I am not a tourney player as I didn't know they really existed). For now I'll fancy myself to be middle to above average player since I have no tourney exp (just based on the local scene).

I've been playing with Sonic for only about 100 matches or so trying to discover that niche in his game. Although I have been trying to find the right combo of moves I had been going at it the wrong way for about 40 matches against my friends. I was playing Sonic like I was playing a "stronger" player. Sonic can knock up the % pretty high. I think combos are the key. I think when it is released here there will be a plethora of people finding ways to make him better and his comboing ability WILL be the key.

I've been able to K.O some opponents around 90% - 95% with good timing (and a little luck).

wow... um... which characters are you sub 100% killing? it isn't unheard of, but it tends to only happen when good setups occur

 

[jamai]

I am going to ditto the poster here. I've been playing Brawl since day one practically and my friend who owns the game has been playing sonic non-stop (not to mention he was a superior melee player) and even with 5x the practice I can still beat his Sonic about 90% of the time. If he picks any other character he typically beats me, even characters he has only been once or twice.

I know this doesn't mean Sonic doesn't have a hope for high tier because all it takes is a few good discoveries and masteries and Sonic gets propelled up the tier list in a hurry. But as far as two weeks of brawl practice goes, Sonic is a very, very weak character, most likely the weakest in the game or very close to it.

 

[Milln]

I am going to ditto the poster here. I've been playing Brawl since day one practically and my friend who owns the game has been playing sonic non-stop (not to mention he was a superior melee player) and even with 5x the practice I can still beat his Sonic about 90% of the time. If he picks any other character he typically beats me, even characters he has only been once or twice.

I know this doesn't mean Sonic doesn't have a hope for high tier because all it takes is a few good discoveries and masteries and Sonic gets propelled up the tier list in a hurry. But as far as two weeks of brawl practice goes, Sonic is a very, very weak character, most likely the weakest in the game or very close to it.

As rude as this kinda sounds, being good with other characters doesn't mean he's good with Sonic, and could attribute to why he's losing.

 

[RuroKami]

As rude as this kinda sounds, being good with other characters doesn't mean he's good with Sonic, and could attribute to why he's losing.

If he was the only one saying this, then yeah the Sonic player probably sucks with him. However lots of people in this thread are saying the same thing. Sonic is weak.

 

[Milln]

If he was the only one saying this, then yeah the Sonic player probably sucks with him. However lots of people in this thread are saying the same thing. Sonic is weak.

Oh, right... oops. XD

 

[Dry Bones]

by the sounds of it, sonic has the Meta Knight complex

 

[Black/Light]

If he was the only one saying this, then yeah the Sonic player probably sucks with him. However lots of people in this thread are saying the same thing. Sonic is weak.

I wouldn't say that. I have only seen like 2-3 people (including StHH) on this thread say that where as 2 others dissagree and say it's too early anyway.

Really, it's not hard for a character to look crappy when only a few people who have the game are speaking out about it. Hell, I hear mixed reviews for characters all-over the place.

Some people who have played say Falco seems like he will be lower on the teir list this time whell others who have played say that he and Wolf are now the best space animals because of how Fox got nerfed and how Falco got a freash new move-set full of combu potental. Some people who have played say ZSS is not a good character well others who have played say that she seems like a better Sheik.

There are tons of conflicting reviews of characters so just take it as what it is . . .views and opinions based on the limated skills and game play by a hand full of people. Im 100% sure people thoughts on mostly all new and old characters are going to look VEEERRYYY different in a few months. By the time Summer hits people will have a much different view of the game's characters.

In other words, we should wait and see for our selves before basing how good a character is simply by a small scope of impressions.

 

[darkNES386]

So has anyone busted out training mode yet and tested exactly at what percentages sonic ko's at? Understand that you have to reset each time... with the diminishing strength... so who here is spamming smash attacks and getting desperate for a kill?

Correct me if I'm wrong... but bowser is KO'd at 95% on his final life in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N5LwAGsv7s
*It's already been made clear that anyone can pretty much always recover... maybe you need to focus more on KO'ing up with Sonic?

 

[Milln]

Perhaps you've hit on something, darkness. Seen that video before, but never really was struck by it before. Also, I notice that Sonic's fsmash is absolute awesome. It sends them, not only far, but far at a low trajectory, which is delicious.

Also note that the uair that ko'd Bowser was suffering a slight amount of diminishing returns, as Sonic used it earlier in the stock.

Of course, it could be argued that Bowser was already really high up on the screen.

 

[LuCKy]

So has anyone busted out training mode yet and tested exactly at what percentages sonic ko's at? Understand that you have to reset each time... with the diminishing strength... so who here is spamming smash attacks and getting desperate for a kill?

Correct me if I'm wrong... but bowser is KO'd at 95% on his final life in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N5LwAGsv7s
*It's already been made clear that anyone can pretty much always recover... maybe you need to focus more on KO'ing up with Sonic?

i know that sonic lol

 

[darkNES386]

i know that sonic lol

::wink:: I just can't wait to pioneer sonic with you Lucky. I'm going to spend easily over 75% of my matches as him. I was wondering if you could answer a couple questions for me about him... can we chat online at some point?

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i'll try to record some sets with lucky's sonic vs some of my random characters so you guys can see his sonic, it's improved a LOT since these vids!

 

[darkNES386]

videos are always welcomed =) it's really strange for me. I know that if I had gotten this game right now... I'd be so in awe of it... that I wouldn't be putting as much thought into observing how stuff actually works... I can actually begin learning a month prior to even touching the game!

 

[andy6915]

You know, (this will sound mean at first, but it's a complement), lucky once sucked with Sonic. Bad. He would jump off the ledge and kill himself for no reason, couldn't KO, couldn't recover. Videos with him playing were painful. Well, I found newer videos, around a week newer then the ones I watched that made me say what I did about Lucky. HOLY CRAP, he improved. He kicks proverbial butt with Sonic now. If he he fights someone now, you can bet that he'll probably win. He is probably the best Sonic player, period, right now, and now consider him one of the most important people when it comes to Sonic analyzing. So yeah, Lucky, keep improving at this same rate, you'll master him in a month or quicker. Good job at learning fast.

 

[darkNES386]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrnbjL84kr8 < this video perhaps?

spring for the knockout!

 

[LuCKy]

You know, (this will sound mean at first, but it's a complement), lucky once sucked with Sonic. Bad. He would jump off the ledge and kill himself for no reason, couldn't KO, couldn't recover. Videos with him playing were painful. Well, I found newer videos, around a week newer then the ones I watched that made me say what I did about Lucky. HOLY CRAP, he improved. He kicks proverbial butt with Sonic now. If he he fights someone now, you can bet that he'll probably win. He is probably the best Sonic player, period, right now, and now consider him one of the most important people when it comes to Sonic analyzing. So yeah, Lucky, keep improving at this same rate, you'll master him in a month or quicker. Good job at learning fast.

lol your freaking cool...........thats all i can say

 

[Milln]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrnbjL84kr8 < this video perhaps?

spring for the knockout!

Gah. Wow. I want the game right now, so I can be cool, too. =\ *determined to make a name for himself in Brawl! >O *

Also, while watching that video, I noticed something that'd be great. Hyphensmashing an Usmash, while already touched on... it deserves mention with another situation: People that short hop all day (everybody) will HATE YOUR SOUL whenever you land it, which will be often. Excellent. Free percent. Needs moar Dsmash, though. That's my favorite attack of his. =x WILL I HAVE TO SIGNATURE MOVE IT?

 

[darkNES386]

Yeah... simply put... it looks like this game is all about smart choices... if you keep missing with the same attack, you dig yourself in a deeper hole. If you gather the same attack into a little combo... that's cool and all, but if you mix up your attacks and string a couple hits together ... then you're talking! Sonic's speed means... more attacks in a shorter time. So obviously, it's goign to be really easy to miss with a lot of his attacks... making him overall even more weaker than he may already be.

 

[Milln]

Yeah... simply put... it looks like this game is all about smart choices... if you keep missing with the same attack, you dig yourself in a deeper hole. If you gather the same attack into a little combo... that's cool and all, but if you mix up your attacks and string a couple hits together ... then you're talking! Sonic's speed means... more attacks in a shorter time. So obviously, it's goign to be really easy to miss with a lot of his attacks... making him overall even more weaker than he may already be.

So accuracy and coaxing your opponent to be hit by more of your attacks (moreso than if you were playing another character) will play a large part of Sonic's game? Remember that every attack refreshes a bit of every other attack you've used up to like.. fifteen? Gonna need many things to do with Sonic. All about style.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

As rude as this kinda sounds, being good with other characters doesn't mean he's good with Sonic, and could attribute to why he's losing.

Occam's razor dissagrees here.

the simplest explanation is that sonic's one of the worst characters, and because it's the simplest explanation, it's the most likely.


Edit: as for the other ponts brought up recently.
-the slightest tap can kill a magnified opponent, I haven't seen the vid, but a low damage KO near a stage's edge says more about good setup than attack power.
-Like I've said before, no dissagreements, Sonic's final smash is flat out the best. Generally speaking, you can KO all your oponents at least once from it.
- It's still way to early to know who will be the best sonic player... while, granted, almost no-one has the game, so the list of candidates is thin. I've never seen lucky's vids. Or any vids of sonic so I can't begin to speculate. All I can compare my sonic to are the sonics played by my friends Pyro and Omni. And while my sonic is substantially better, I'm doubting that it's best.

 

[Milln]

So, he's Mewtwo? >,> Or just a really steep learning curve? Or is he Yoshi? XD

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

So, he's Mewtwo? >,> Or just a really steep learning curve? Or is he Yoshi? XD

mewtwo? not quite. But he's probably the closest thing that brawl has to mewtwo.

His speed alone prevevnts him from being mewtwo.

he has a lot of reliable attacks, just VERY VERY few KO attacks. And of the 3 Big knockback attacks, his Downsmash is rarely going to connect, so you've got more like 2.

Much like mewtwo, however, he is GREATLY improved by the presence of items (mainly smashballs)


While I think that, after much practice and mastery, sonic can be made competitive, it's going to be an uphill battle and I don't think we'll se him winning many tourneys.

 

[vincentninja68]

From what I've seen, it looks like sonic is gonna have to get his opponent awful close to the edge the screen to get his ko's. His strong attacks just aren't enough to kill with on the stage, but if his opponents are at the edge of the screen getting a ko should be easy. It shouldn't be too hard with sonic, his recovery should allow him to travel quite a bit away from the stage, attack his opponent, then use b to make it back.