Impressions on sonic and his useability.

[MrLegend]

Mewtwo sucks. the people playing as him have skill but agains't anyone of even or more skill, he gets *****.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

i'm not the person you tell "any character can be good if you use them right"

certain characters are just straight up bad, sorry, but its the truth.

and brawl isn't really like that, at least not as much... most of the characters are still playable... some are just worse than others... and sonic is one of those.... sadly

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Try playing DK or CF and telling me that Sonic is terrible.

He has waaaaaaay more options than we thought, guys. I think he'll end up being placed in the tier list like Luigi was for SSBM- really inappropriately, due to the difficulty of using him, combined with people just wanting to john about having a terrible character because of having "limited kill moves". I guarantee almost every Sonic player will john about that at least once.

Also, I'd like it if no one tells me that Luigi has priority, yadda yadda. I know. I play Jeris/SDSG, the second best Luigi in the nation. I know what Luigi is capable of, and that's why I think he should be waaaaaay higher on SSBM's tier list.

 

[Emblem Lord]

That's what I'm saying.

Sonic at worst will be mid tier IMO.

Which is fine by me.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

sonic is low tier at this point, i really dont think there is any question of that, but he's not the worst character

unless something drastically changes, he will likely just stay low tier

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Gimpy's face is low tier(!).

Actually, Gimpy is the only guy that mained Boozer for SSBM that didn't LOOK like Boozer. I'm srsly.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Try playing DK or CF and telling me that Sonic is terrible.

He has waaaaaaay more options than we thought, guys. I think he'll end up being placed in the tier list like Luigi was for SSBM- really inappropriately, due to the difficulty of using him, combined with people just wanting to john about having a terrible character because of having "limited kill moves". I guarantee almost every Sonic player will john about that at least once.

Also, I'd like it if no one tells me that Luigi has priority, yadda yadda. I know. I play Jeris/SDSG, the second best Luigi in the nation. I know what Luigi is capable of, and that's why I think he should be waaaaaay higher on SSBM's tier list.

and he looks like he's even better in brawl (luigi that is)

as for sonic being better than a scant handfull of characters does not make him mid-teir... there are 39 characters in brawl if you count sheik, ZSS and all 3 pokes separately (which you should since they all play so differenly) I challenge you to name 13 characters which play worse than sonic.

let's see.... optimistic list:
sonic could possibly outmatch
C. Falcon
Yoshi
DK
Bowser
Ganondorf
Peach
Dedede

on his best day... and I'm doubting he'll even get credit for that many.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

bowser peach and dedede aren't even CLOSE to being anywhere on a list like that lol

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

bowser peach and dedede aren't even CLOSE to being anywhere on a list like that lol

I'm just saying that sonic doesn't totally suck against that bunch... but even so, he isn't necesarily better than them... my point was, even on his best day, he couldn't take more than 7 of the cast.

also... I'm completely underwhelmed by peach this time around. Her double jump is non existent, her power attacks lack power now and she's the only character who can't grab the ledge backwards out of her UP+B

Bowser also isn't great at all... I mean, he's better than in melee... but he still isn't great... I know you like bowser and all... but he's not great.

Dedede is good, however, and I expect him to place well on any teir list that comes out... but sonic actually does okay against him.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

i never said bowser was good, but he's a whole lot better than sonic lol

and peach is pretty freaking good

dedede is ridiculously good.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I doubt that Bowser is better then Sonic.

At the very least I'm thinking it's bad match for Bowser.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

i never said bowser was good, but he's a whole lot better than sonic lol

and peach is pretty freaking good

dedede is ridiculously good.

I don't know about a whole lot better than sonic... better.... but not substantially so. top of the bottom teir I think?

peach? pretty freaking good? I see middle of the road at best when I look at her... I put her witht he likes of metaknight and samus.

dedede... yeah... I'm seeing bottom of the top teir for him.

I doubt that Bowser is better then Sonic.

At the very least I'm thinking it's bad match for Bowser.

indeed... whether bowser is better than sonic against most characters or not, sonic is favoured in a sonic vs. bowser matchup. His moves just seem to work against bowser... and he's too fast to get hit by much bowser throws at him.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

you people dont know what makes a good/bad character apparently, so nevermind

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

you people dont know what makes a good/bad character apparently, so nevermind

no... I do... it's just I'm disagreeing with you at the moment. While you are experienced... I'm not particularly agreeing with all your oinions. I ain't seeing too many redeaming qualities for peach or bowser that would make me believe that they are better than I'm giving them redit for.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Hahaha.

Options make a good character.

Reliable strats, solid moves,etc.

I know what makes a character good.

Bowser has more options on brawl ,but it's mostly system changes that helped him IMO.

I still think Sonic is better from what I have seen though Bowser has a better shield game cuz of Fortress and a better throw game. But I think Sonic outclasses him in other areas.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Hahaha.

Options make a good character.

Reliable strats, solid moves,etc.

I know what makes a character good.

Bowser has more options on brawl ,but it's mostly system changes that helped him IMO.

I still think Sonic is better from what I have seen though Bowser has a better shield game cuz of Fortress and a better throw game. But I think Sonic outclasses him in other areas.

if you play the two of them against each other, and you are at about equal skill levels, sonic seems to come out on top... besides a few tricks, bowser has a hard time connecting against sonic... now, sonic WILL have a hard time finishing a bowser, but it's not impossible, and I still give odds on sonic for this match. Fsmash actually has a good chance of connecting Vs. a bowser

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Dedede will probably end up having the advantage. Sure, he's slow, but he has wicked good recovery, is a heavy-weight, has one of the most annoying projectiles ever, can kill early, and has that stupid CG. Honestly, Dedede isn't bad.

Isn't a tier list based on who beats who? If so, then currently, Sonic does better than DK, Link, GaW, Falco, Ike (easiest character to gimp, hands down), Snake (sure, he has explosives, and wicked knockback, but why are you giving him time to do anything?), (I think Peach is going to be very subjective), Yoshi, Ganon, ICs (possibly, haven't had much playtime with CO's IC main), conceivably Ness (really easy to gimp, though not as much as Ike), Sonic (LOLOLOLOL JK JK JK), Koopa (dunno about this, we don't have a Bowser main here, and I can't fly over to Cali to play against Gimpy), Wario (dunno so much right now, I've done well, but I have some feeling that Wario is just going to be good), Olimar (yes, Sonic DOES do well in this match-up. He kills pikmin better than anyone, and can combo the little guy really well. Add that to Olimar being the easiest character ever to gimp, aside from possibly Venusaur, and Sonic's good pressure/tech-chase game, and Sonic seems to come out on top more often than not), and CF.

I haven't played a good Puff yet with my Sonic, nor Mario/ZSS/Kirby, etc. I dunno who wins out in Marth v Sonic yet because, even though we have a really good Marth player in CO (or did, for SSBM, anyway), and I 2-0'ed him at the last tournament we had, Brawl did tweak him slightly, and it just feels wrong that Sonic should be able to trounce him.

Hell most the things I didn't list, I'm not familiar with. I'm not saying Sonic's God, or that he owns every single character I listed, but so far, these are the easiest match-ups for him, from my experience. So here, let's make an optimistic list, purely hypothetical then a more realistic one.

Advantages
----------------
DK
Link
Marth
GaW
Falco
Fox
Ike
Snake
Peach
Yoshi
Ganon
D3 (though I really don't agree with this one currently)
Ness
Koopa
Wario
Olimar
CF

That's 17/37, because ZSS/Samus and Zelda/Sheik really ARE different character. PT ~can~ be thought of as 3 characters, but with stamina AND damage scaling, he's probably going to have to change unless he wants the opponent to live to 150% on later lives.

Basing that solely off of Advantage match-ups, Sonic would be solid mid tier. When you take into account even match-ups, being ENTIRELY optimistic, you have

Samus
Pikachu
Diddy (played this match. Banana peels really aren't a problem, just dash attack to pick one up, then set your own trap)
Sheik
Pit (gimpable, fights odd, but I've won almost every Pit match I've played)
PT (haven't played this match at all, and I think PT will have the advantage, but we're being optimistic, right?)
ICs
Wolf
Lucario (weird-*** character, but his "combo" aerials do 3% a piece. That's less than any of your moves, sans jab, the dair is a pain, though, as is his power-up based on damage, might end up being disadvantage)
R.O.B (I hear cries of "HERESY" already, but this character is slow, easy to combo, and has some of the slowest aerials ever. Each one is really strong, but you have to be hit with them, eh? Still, lasers and gyro are good, when used right, so this might end up being a hard match-up)
Purin (just being optimistic, probably will end up like the IC v Jiggs match-up)

That's 12/37, which leaves 8 Disadvantages, being optimistic, of course:

Mario (who didn't see that coming?)
Kirby (he seriously got buffed, I can't even explain it)
Luigi (been here, done this, it hurts a lot, Luigi has nasty priority and approaches, as well as the ping)
Zelda (I know it seems odd, but the firetrap is HUGE now, and should be able to keep Sonic at bay. Add that in with her amazing kills, and she's a problem. Downside for her is her now crappy recovery.)
MetaKnight (priority, invincibility on a lot of his b-moves, combos, and kills. This guy hurts a lot)
Toon Link (seriously, do I need to say anything?)
Lucas (It's really hard to approach this brat. Really hard. Hedgehogs seem to be exceptionally flammable, you can't combo him very well, due to quick aerials, he outprioritizes you so much it's not even funny, and has little lag to catch him on. Still, it could just be me, and I haven't fought MikeZ's Lucas since last week, so we'll see what happens)
ZSS (haven't done this match-up, but it just seems like it's going to be bad. Laser pressure, combos, and earlier kills are all kinda scary. Still, might end up even, or in Sonic's favour. That's the beauty of playing a game before metagame, nothing is known for sure).

Seems like he'll be solid mid-tier, maybe even upper-mid, but he'll be ranked low because we seem to have an UmbreonMow here, complaining about how wicked bad the character is. Add that with a steep learning curve, and you have a recipe for poor representation on the tier list.

I'm actually too lazy right now to list the pessimistic one blow-by-blow, so I'll just give numbers:

Advantage: DK, Link, GaW, Ike, Snake, Yoshi, Ganon, Olimar, CF - 9/37
Even: Fox, Diddy, Falco, Sheik, Peach, IC, Wolf, Wario, Koopa, Ness, Samus, Sonic (LOLOLOL) 12/37
Disadvantage: Mario, Kirby, Pikachu, Marf, Luigi, Zelda, Pit, MK, PT, D3, Lucario, Toon Link, R.O.B., Puff, Lucas, ZSS 16/37

Now, if this ends up being the case, Sonic will be low-tier, maaaaaybe low-mid, depending on how severe the match-ups end up being. Either way, all we can do is speculate. For all we know, two years from now, it could look like this:
Advantages: 36/37
Even: Sonic (LOLOLOLOL) 1/37

Or this:
Advantages: 0/37
Even: 0/37
Disadvantages: 36/37
Super Disadvantage: Sonic (LOLOLOL) 1/37

 

[Emblem Lord]

Honestly I don't even think we are seeing his true potential yet in terms of abusing his dash or shield approaching. Not to mention his tilts are solid and so is his jab combo but Sonic players really aren't abusing them.

Also I would rather not think that Sonic does well vs Marth, but maybe he does.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Dedede will probably end up having the advantage. Sure, he's slow, but he has wicked good recovery, is a heavy-weight, has one of the most annoying projectiles ever, can kill early, and has that stupid CG. Honestly, Dedede isn't bad.

Isn't a tier list based on who beats who? If so, then currently, Sonic does better than DK, Link, GaW, Falco, Ike (easiest character to gimp, hands down), Snake (sure, he has explosives, and wicked knockback, but why are you giving him time to do anything?), (I think Peach is going to be very subjective), Yoshi, Ganon, ICs (possibly, haven't had much playtime with CO's IC main), conceivably Ness (really easy to gimp, though not as much as Ike), Sonic (LOLOLOLOL JK JK JK), Koopa (dunno about this, we don't have a Bowser main here, and I can't fly over to Cali to play against Gimpy), Wario (dunno so much right now, I've done well, but I have some feeling that Wario is just going to be good), Olimar (yes, Sonic DOES do well in this match-up. He kills pikmin better than anyone, and can combo the little guy really well. Add that to Olimar being the easiest character ever to gimp, aside from possibly Venusaur, and Sonic's good pressure/tech-chase game, and Sonic seems to come out on top more often than not), and CF.

I haven't played a good Puff yet with my Sonic, nor Mario/ZSS/Kirby, etc. I dunno who wins out in Marth v Sonic yet because, even though we have a really good Marth player in CO (or did, for SSBM, anyway), and I 2-0'ed him at the last tournament we had, Brawl did tweak him slightly, and it just feels wrong that Sonic should be able to trounce him.

Hell most the things I didn't list, I'm not familiar with. I'm not saying Sonic's God, or that he owns every single character I listed, but so far, these are the easiest match-ups for him, from my experience. So here, let's make an optimistic list, purely hypothetical then a more realistic one.

Advantages
----------------
DK
Link
Marth
GaW
Falco
Fox
Ike
Snake
Peach
Yoshi
Ganon
D3 (though I really don't agree with this one currently)
Ness
Koopa
Wario
Olimar
CF

That's 17/37, because ZSS/Samus and Zelda/Sheik really ARE different character. PT ~can~ be thought of as 3 characters, but with stamina AND damage scaling, he's probably going to have to change unless he wants the opponent to live to 150% on later lives.

Basing that solely off of Advantage match-ups, Sonic would be solid mid tier. When you take into account even match-ups, being ENTIRELY optimistic, you have

Samus
Pikachu
Diddy (played this match. Banana peels really aren't a problem, just dash attack to pick one up, then set your own trap)
Sheik
Pit (gimpable, fights odd, but I've won almost every Pit match I've played)
PT (haven't played this match at all, and I think PT will have the advantage, but we're being optimistic, right?)
ICs
Wolf
Lucario (weird-*** character, but his "combo" aerials do 3% a piece. That's less than any of your moves, sans jab, the dair is a pain, though, as is his power-up based on damage, might end up being disadvantage)
R.O.B (I hear cries of "HERESY" already, but this character is slow, easy to combo, and has some of the slowest aerials ever. Each one is really strong, but you have to be hit with them, eh? Still, lasers and gyro are good, when used right, so this might end up being a hard match-up)
Purin (just being optimistic, probably will end up like the IC v Jiggs match-up)

That's 12/37, which leaves 8 Disadvantages, being optimistic, of course:

Mario (who didn't see that coming?)
Kirby (he seriously got buffed, I can't even explain it)
Luigi (been here, done this, it hurts a lot, Luigi has nasty priority and approaches, as well as the ping)
Zelda (I know it seems odd, but the firetrap is HUGE now, and should be able to keep Sonic at bay. Add that in with her amazing kills, and she's a problem. Downside for her is her now crappy recovery.)
MetaKnight (priority, invincibility on a lot of his b-moves, combos, and kills. This guy hurts a lot)
Toon Link (seriously, do I need to say anything?)
Lucas (It's really hard to approach this brat. Really hard. Hedgehogs seem to be exceptionally flammable, you can't combo him very well, due to quick aerials, he outprioritizes you so much it's not even funny, and has little lag to catch him on. Still, it could just be me, and I haven't fought MikeZ's Lucas since last week, so we'll see what happens)
ZSS (haven't done this match-up, but it just seems like it's going to be bad. Laser pressure, combos, and earlier kills are all kinda scary. Still, might end up even, or in Sonic's favour. That's the beauty of playing a game before metagame, nothing is known for sure).

Seems like he'll be solid mid-tier, maybe even upper-mid, but he'll be ranked low because we seem to have an UmbreonMow here, complaining about how wicked bad the character is. Add that with a steep learning curve, and you have a recipe for poor representation on the tier list.

I'm actually too lazy right now to list the pessimistic one blow-by-blow, so I'll just give numbers:

Advantage: DK, Link, GaW, Ike, Snake, Yoshi, Ganon, Olimar, CF - 9/37
Even: Fox, Diddy, Falco, Sheik, Peach, IC, Wolf, Wario, Koopa, Ness, Samus, Sonic (LOLOLOL) 12/37
Disadvantage: Mario, Kirby, Pikachu, Marf, Luigi, Zelda, Pit, MK, PT, D3, Lucario, Toon Link, R.O.B., Puff, Lucas, ZSS 16/37

Now, if this ends up being the case, Sonic will be low-tier, maaaaaybe low-mid, depending on how severe the match-ups end up being. Either way, all we can do is speculate. For all we know, two years from now, it could look like this:
Advantages: 36/37
Even: Sonic (LOLOLOLOL) 1/37

Or this:
Advantages: 0/37
Even: 0/37
Disadvantages: 36/37
Super Disadvantage: Sonic (LOLOLOL) 1/37

wow... such a long post well... He doesn't match up "well" against Dedede... he matxhes up OK and so if you are better than your oponent, you could win that matchup (his spindash goes right through waddledees) and honestly, he doesn't do well against the snake... snake can kill sonic at sub 100 damage, and sonic can't kill snake until about 200 same with ike.. though snake is harder to be sure.

Captain falcon sux... but he isn't particularly easy for sonic... he's just meh.


but, honestly, he gets ***** by luigi and kirby so hard. and against olimar I wouldn't give him adavantage. and he certainly doesn't outmatch a marth.

 

[Lyoncet]

While I don't want to come off as bashing anybody, the range of thoughts (and performances) on/with Sonic leads me to believe that Sonic is only as good as the person playing him. Not that that doesn't go for every character, but more so with one that requires such precision and unpredictability to play well.

Again, not trying to bash STHD, but it looks like all those major problems he seems to experience other players manage to get around. They're still there (nobody can make his fsmash have greater range), but people make it work regardless.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

I'm just saying that sonic doesn't totally suck against that bunch... but even so, he isn't necesarily better than them... my point was, even on his best day, he couldn't take more than 7 of the cast.

also... I'm completely underwhelmed by peach this time around. Her double jump is non existent, her power attacks lack power now and she's the only character who can't grab the ledge backwards out of her UP+B

Bowser also isn't great at all... I mean, he's better than in melee... but he still isn't great... I know you like bowser and all... but he's not great.

Dedede is good, however, and I expect him to place well on any teir list that comes out... but sonic actually does okay against him.

Bowser got buffed pretty decently. I've only put him where I did because I haven't played one yet. Peach didn't get buffed, per se, but she stayed good enough to end up doing really well in Brawl. Her DJ doesn't matter all that much, as she'll be spending a lot of her time in the air, and as such, sent upwards when hit. She has almost zero lag on all her aerials, her Peach Bomber can tech-chase, kill, counter, go through shields without fear of being punished, and is just better in general. The golf club is wicked good this time around, as is the double-slap, utilt, and pan. Her throws got nerfed to some extent, but it doesn't matter, as she is able to kill with other moves a lot easier this time around. She does 22% on her bair, for the love of everything unholy!

Seriously, if you think that Peach isn't all that great, then you probably just spammed dsmash with her, and worshipped Dark.Pch like the rest of that ******** community. That's why I ended up switching, I was tired of hearing of the players. Granted, Sonic fans are kinda douches, but some of the actual players I've talked to are already much more level-headed than the cult of Dark.Pch. =/

EDIT:

wow... such a long post well... He doesn't match up "well" against Dedede... he matxhes up OK and so if you are better than your oponent, you could win that matchup (his spindash goes right through waddledees) and honestly, he doesn't do well against the snake... snake can kill sonic at sub 100 damage, and sonic can't kill snake until about 200 same with ike.. though snake is harder to be sure.

Captain falcon sux... but he isn't particularly easy for sonic... he's just meh.


but, honestly, he gets ***** by luigi and kirby so hard. and against olimar I wouldn't give him adavantage. and he certainly doesn't outmatch a marth.

You've never been wall-infinite CGed by D3, have you? Or CG'ed in general. Have you ever SEEN the utilt? It may end up being an even match, but I dunno about Sonic having the advantage. It seems like you're just listing characters that you don't have problems fairing, seriously.

I don't know what game you're playing, but I've been killing Ike at about 150%, at the most, and avoiding getting hit. I actually can kill him at 80%, and most Sonic players should be able to as well.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VXsdKVtU3nI

Snake is more theoretical for me at this point, since we only have one Snake player, and he rolls, a LOT. Smart with his traps, but predictable otherwise. As long as you have an idea of where he's going, Sonic seems to do well, and is able to combo him exceedingly well. I haven't quite gotten the hang of gimping him yet, but rumor is that it's pretty easy. If that's the case, Sonic should be a solid counter for him.

Kirby and Luigi are bundles of priority and pain. Anyone who thinks Sonic can own them at this point in the game is seriously crazy, or has some technique that I've never heard of.

Marth is going to take more playtime for me to decide. I think it'll end up being even, but I could see Marth beating Sonic. Then again, that could just be old Melee instinct.

DOUBLE EDIT: Get used to seeing long posts by me, I do it a lot when I'm debating. XD

How many people do you play aside from Omnigamer, STHD? Might help to get experience against more than one person that knows what they're doing.

 

[RedrappeR]

Tier lists aren't lists of which characters are just "better" than each other... it's a lot more than that.

It gets down to accessibility, strat, metagame-- not just "who's, better than who".

I still think he's Mid tier. Low tier is viable, but calling him bottom is still stupid to me. I've seen plenty of evidence to debate otherwise. The only reason I'm really still on this board, is because I'm satisfied with the strategy's found by the PT players, and most of the other characters I'm looking into.

Can we please find some strategies instead of just complaining about how you can't do this or that? or inversely complaining about how his position on a tier list should be higher? You'd think thirteen pages in, people would realize things aren't going anywhere.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Sounds like a grand idea to me. Really, this thread should be dead by now, and Kuja and my own topic should reign supreme!

Srsly, though. He has good discussion and whatnot, and I have a comprehensive guide with point-by-point analysis of every single move available. Tier lists are kinda a moot point right now, as no one is good with anyone right now, despite what we think. The best matches available currently are going to be garbage in a year.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Bowser got buffed pretty decently. I've only put him where I did because I haven't played one yet. Peach didn't get buffed, per se, but she stayed good enough to end up doing really well in Brawl. Her DJ doesn't matter all that much, as she'll be spending a lot of her time in the air, and as such, sent upwards when hit. She has almost zero lag on all her aerials, her Peach Bomber can tech-chase, kill, counter, go through shields without fear of being punished, and is just better in general. The golf club is wicked good this time around, as is the double-slap, utilt, and pan. Her throws got nerfed to some extent, but it doesn't matter, as she is able to kill with other moves a lot easier this time around. She does 22% on her bair, for the love of everything unholy!

Seriously, if you think that Peach isn't all that great, then you probably just spammed dsmash with her, and worshipped Dark.Pch like the rest of that ******** community. That's why I ended up switching, I was tired of hearing of the players. Granted, Sonic fans are kinda douches, but some of the actual players I've talked to are already much more level-headed than the cult of Dark.Pch. =/

EDIT:



You've never been wall-infinite CGed by D3, have you? Or CG'ed in general. Have you ever SEEN the utilt? It may end up being an even match, but I dunno about Sonic having the advantage. It seems like you're just listing characters that you don't have problems fairing, seriously.

I don't know what game you're playing, but I've been killing Ike at about 150%, at the most, and avoiding getting hit. I actually can kill him at 80%, and most Sonic players should be able to as well.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VXsdKVtU3nI

Snake is more theoretical for me at this point, since we only have one Snake player, and he rolls, a LOT. Smart with his traps, but predictable otherwise. As long as you have an idea of where he's going, Sonic seems to do well, and is able to combo him exceedingly well. I haven't quite gotten the hang of gimping him yet, but rumor is that it's pretty easy. If that's the case, Sonic should be a solid counter for him.

Kirby and Luigi are bundles of priority and pain. Anyone who thinks Sonic can own them at this point in the game is seriously crazy, or has some technique that I've never heard of.

Marth is going to take more playtime for me to decide. I think it'll end up being even, but I could see Marth beating Sonic. Then again, that could just be old Melee instinct.

DOUBLE EDIT: Get used to seeing long posts by me, I do it a lot when I'm debating. XD

How many people do you play aside from Omnigamer, STHD? Might help to get experience against more than one person that knows what they're doing.

oh... such a long post again... anyway as for peach... I never played her, but I've played against her in brawl and melee. she's different some buffs some neggs, but I've seen bigger neggs than buffs. like I said... other characters just seem better middle teir.


and dedede's CG is a b*** to get caught in, but a chain grab alone isn't going to win a match... besides... what neutral stages are going to have walls for him to infinite you? besides that, sonic seems to do well with big, slow characters. it just suits him well.

omni plays a nice snake... setting up traps smartly is a big part of his game... but snake is also ridiculously strong and heavy. Like I said... you have to be doing over 2x the damage to him that he is to you to have a shot. I've spring gimped him once... I think you can only gimp the begining of his UPB otherwise he gets it back. And since h'es flinchproof, he really has the advantage if you attack him in it.


I beat all the ikes I play... but they aren't playing good ikes, so it was more theoretical than anything... I'm just imagining he'll play similar to snake in that it doesn't take mmuch to KO a sonic with ike.

I find it hard to believe a sonic could beat the pwn that is marth normally.

agreed about kirby and luigi. I think sonic would probably have to play defensively to beat them? and sonic does NOT like playing defensively


EDIT: oh and I'm playing against lots of people, but only Omni and Pyro are good. And honestly, they are better than me... so the fact that I can fair well against any of their characters lets me think that sonic isn't worthless

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

...I just had another thought of terrible irony.

Sonic and Mario seem dead evenly matched in this game. Yet Luigi pisses in his cereal easily. Would this mean if Tails made the next Brawl he'd be a counter to Mario?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'm sure sakurai didn't think about who would counter whom.

it would suck for tails though...; his recovery would be redic. but, I mean it looks like recoveries aren't worth balls in brawl...at least compared to melee. I mean a good recovery is still good, but in melee, it's part of what made samus jiggs and peach as good as they were.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Get some vids up of Omni's Snake, maybe? You seem to have a good Snake opponent, and I have a decent Ike, so maybe we can help each other with those match-ups.

Marth, I dunno... I'm used to approaching him weird, since I used Peach and Fox vs him in Melee (and, of course, Sheik, if I couldn't win with either. Sonic doesn't have needles or her amazing set-ups, though. D: ), so it might just be more my playing style combined with Marth being changed slightly.

Usmash seems really important against Luigi, and probably is against Kirby. It really does well in out-prioritizing their approaches. Also, sweet-spotted uairs (the tip of the second hit, think Fox for SSBM) seem to beat everything they can do from above. I haven't fought Kirby's dair yet, though. Either way, those matches are going to be kinda camp-based, meaning that you have to wait outside their range until they do something wrong, then zoom in and punish. They're going to be a *****, and heavily tangent upon how well you can space and mindgame, I think. =/

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Get some vids up of Omni's Snake, maybe? You seem to have a good Snake opponent, and I have a decent Ike, so maybe we can help each other with those match-ups.

Marth, I dunno... I'm used to approaching him weird, since I used Peach and Fox vs him in Melee (and, of course, Sheik, if I couldn't win with either. Sonic doesn't have needles or her amazing set-ups, though. D: ), so it might just be more my playing style combined with Marth being changed slightly.

Usmash seems really important against Luigi, and probably is against Kirby. It really does well in out-prioritizing their approaches. Also, sweet-spotted uairs (the tip of the second hit, think Fox for SSBM) seem to beat everything they can do from above. I haven't fought Kirby's dair yet, though. Either way, those matches are going to be kinda camp-based, meaning that you have to wait outside their range until they do something wrong, then zoom in and punish. They're going to be a *****, and heavily tangent upon how well you can space and mindgame, I think. =/

 

[Emblem Lord]

U-smash out of shield with Sonic is a must IMO.

Also Shield dash to spaced f-tilt looks very safe.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

It is a really safe approach. I prefer dash-cancelling into ftilts. It's a little risky, but quicker, less predictable, and can net some nice rewards.

Emblem Lord, thank you so much. Up until now, I've been punishing enemies that attack my shield from the air with uair out of shield. Sonic's game just keeps stepping up, dayumnz!

 

[InterimOfZeal]

It is a really safe approach. I prefer dash-cancelling into ftilts. It's a little risky, but quicker, less predictable, and can net some nice rewards.

Emblem Lord, thank you so much. Up until now, I've been punishing enemies that attack my shield from the air with uair out of shield. Sonic's game just keeps stepping up, dayumnz!

 

[Emblem Lord]

I think Nair and Fair are his fastest aerials out of shield.

But if Luigi hits your shield, I wouldn't go for an aerial.

I would just U-smash.

Could you experiment more with Nair? Like see if it can net you a free hit or grab when you approach with it. The knockback looks really low.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Yeah, I haven't played Luigi since I started doing aerials outta shield, and there's no way in hell I would try it with Sonic. Peach has a hard enough time landing nair against him between aerials in Melee. He can do 3 in one SH now, can't be any easier to hit him. D:

Just tested the nair to grab/hit. Guess what? You can't.

UNLESS THEY TRIP!

THE NAIR ****ING TRIPS PEOPLE RANDOMLY, WTF?!?

Testing it more as I type, it seems I was right, the little stars that fly around his body have different knockback, and seem to be the catalyst to tripping with it.

EDIT: It's not the stars. I've found out how to consistently cause slide on it, it seems to stun, but I have no one to test it with me right now. Also, you can instantly cancel into his dash attack. Doesn't count as a combo in training mode, but it seems like a good harassment option.

Nair, Dash Attack, Ftilt, anyone?

 

[Lyoncet]

Wait wait wait wait. What?

So you're saying if you, say, SHNA (short-hop neutral-air) and connect, your opponent trips? Could we get some vids? I'm having a hard time visualizing the effects you're describing.

Still though, if that works out, that'll be absolutely amazing.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

It works, but I really have no clue what triggers it. So far, it's completely random. If I figure it out, I'll post ASAP, because that would really improve the move.

Also, it can kill at pretty low percents when you're both off the edge, it has a sweetspot in the upper mid part of it, I'll try to get vids up sometime within the next couple days/week.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Hmmm, so nair can gimp?

Gah I was hoping that he could use it to approach.

Not even FF Nair to jab combo works?

****.

And that aerial has no lag too. Kinda sucks that it's use is so limited.

 

[LuCKy]

lol i still hate this thread.................and i still dont feel like writing my impression again but sonic sucks against noobs lol ill try to explain this later

after reading the past couple pages of this thread i remembered why i was staying away from the sonic boards lol

 

[Lyoncet]

lol i still hate this thread.................and i still dont feel like writing my impression again but sonic sucks against noobs lol ill try to explain this later

after reading the past couple pages of this thread i remembered why i was staying away from the sonic boards lol

The other threads here are pretty good IMO. It's probably worth at least checking out Interim's and Kuja's in their entirety if you haven't already. They're both much more constructive.

How's your game coming, Lucky? Been a while since we've seen any new vids.

 

[LuCKy]

The other threads here are pretty good IMO. It's probably worth at least checking out Interim's and Kuja's in their entirety if you haven't already. They're both much more constructive.

How's your game coming, Lucky? Been a while since we've seen any new vids.

i plan on recording this week so dont worry i'll get some new matches out lol

 

[BentoBox]

Nicely handled Sonic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0V3-Ky36vQ&feature=related

Confusion is a method of approach.